Kenpachi vs. Byakuya

[Tsuruko Shiro]

I came in here expacting to see at least 2 Kenpachi vs. Byakuya Threads, but I didn't even see one.

Ok, anyways, I really wanna know who other people think would win in a fight with Kenpachi against Byakuya. Me and a friend of mine have been arguing over who we think would win ever since we saw Zaraki offer to kill Rukia for Byakuya in the earlier episodes.

I say Byakuya would own the SHIT out of Kenpachi before he even knew what was happening. Ok, sure, Kenpachi has crazy reiatsu, and can take hits well, but other than that, he's really not got too much going for him. He's not fast, and he doesn't honestly fight that great. And not only that, but after Ichigo beat Kenpachi, he had to rain even more just to be on equal footing with Byakuya. And actually, he really wasn't on equal footing with him until Hollow-Ichigo came out and stepped in.

Oh yeah, and I'm sure someone is going to make a comment about how before Ichigo, Kenpachi was never beaten, because that was always my friend's argument.
"So what if Byakuya is fast, Zaraki has never been beaten!"
"Yeah, well, Zaraki has also never fought Byakuya, BITCH!!!"
And then he was silent. I win.

My opinion, Byakuya > Ken-chan.

[Aya]

Byakuya will pwn Kenpachi.., its not that Ken-chan is weak...., just Byakuya is way more skilled and powerfull....Zaraki would be pretty much dead after a hit from Senbonzakura......
Byakuya>>>>>kenpachi.....

[MT]

Byakuya would own Kenpachi... why??

Ichigo took down Kenpachi with a Shi Kai

And had to take down Byakuya with a Ban Kai... and it wasn't easy either....

[Tsuruko Shiro]

Zaraki would be pretty much dead after a hit from Senbonzakura......

I dunno, give him a little bit of credit, he is one tough mofo. I think he could survive a hit, but who said he'd only be hit once :p

Byakuya would own Kenpachi... why??

Ichigo took down Kenpachi with a Shi Kai

And had to take down Byakuya with a Ban Kai... and it wasn't easy either....

Exactly, Ichigo had to try waaaaay harder to take down Byakuya than Kenpachi. Therefore I think Byakuya is waaaaay stronger.

[Aya]

hhehe....no , no credits for him.....he will die quickly, with a smile at his face, enjoining the good fight...

[Tsuruko Shiro]

Yeah, I know Zaraki will enjoy the fight, if he lives long enough to actually get to do anything.

[kotetsu]

Byakuya will pwn Kenpachi.., its not that Ken-chan is weak...., just Byakuya is way more skilled and powerfull....Zaraki would be pretty much dead after a hit from Senbonzakura......
Byakuya>>>>>kenpachi.....

YEH
im wit Zakura on dis one
Byakuya just need to "chire" Senbonzakura a couple o' times and Ken would prob b down....
and i dont think Ken's weak or anything tooo..
i just think Byakuya ownz:p

[dyne]

technically ichigo didn't use shi kai and never did beat zaraki.....his shi kai is the ability to fire those spiritual pressure beams and he had no idea how to do that so i see no difference from his shi kai and normal state at the time

this is obvious that byakya would pwn zaraki with out even using shi kai

[Tsuruko Shiro]

The biggest reason why I think Byakuya would win is because his speed. Kenpachi would never even be able to hit Byakuya. Therefore I think that Byakuya could probably win without having to even switch to shikai.

[Shiba]

Both are exceptionally strong captains, but Byakuya is far stronger. He's probably one of the few captains who has a chance against Aizen. Mind you, if Kenpachi had a ban kai he'd have a chance to fight him and live.

[Aya]

if Kenpachi had a ban kai he'd have a chance to fight him and live.
but the point is that he will live after he is beaten badly......IF he was having ban kai....and he doesnt...poor thing...he`s doomed..
amin!

[Mizuki]

hmmm..tough one..
but i think byakuya will win against zaraki....he is faster..smarter...
BUT~ zaraki will definitely win if he has a shikai!

[dyne]

he dont have ban kai and even if he did get it he wouldn't be able to master it

[Tsuruko Shiro]

hmmm..tough one..
but i think byakuya will win against zaraki....he is faster..smarter...
BUT~ zaraki will definitely win if he has a shikai!

Unless that shikai increases his speed drastically, I still doubt it.

Speed > Sheer power.

[AbaraiRenji]

woah woah woah
all u byakuya people *sigh*
i wish abarairenji(thatsme) was still in 11th division
to tell ya the truth zaraki will pwn bayakuya
u didnt even seen him fight for realzz
ichigo was scared of him when he was gonna to fiht for realz against ichigo
and ichigo jumped out the window
SOOooOOoOOoOoO
Zaraki > Byakuya

[Aya]

woah woah woah
all u byakuya people *sigh*
i wish abarairenji(thatsme) was still in 11th division
to tell ya the truth zaraki will pwn bayakuya
u didnt even seen him fight for realzz
ichigo was scared of him when he was gonna to fiht for realz against ichigo
and ichigo jumped out the window
SOOooOOoOOoOoO
Zaraki > Byakuya
:eek:
this thing only can happen in your dreams.......
be realistic ansd admit that Zaraki is weaker than Byakuya....its more than obvious.....:p

[Ulquoirra]

Kuchiki would win... He's not only a captain but he has superior noble blood and a better understanding of shinigami powers...Kenpachi would have endurance on his side, but all that means is that he would suffer longer than most before he died... Why else would Gin step in and stop Kuchiki and Kenpachi from fighting? Does anyone else get the feeling that "captain level" is a pretty shaky concept? None of the captains seem to be on par with eachother... If you were to rate them on a scale of 1-10, they'd range from one end to the other... Tousen at 3 (sorry Squady) and Aizen at 9...

[Shiba]

Kuchiki would win... He's not only a captain but he has superior noble blood and a better understanding of shinigami powers...Kenpachi would have endurance on his side, but all that means is that he would suffer longer than most before he died... Why else would Gin step in and stop Kuchiki and Kenpachi from fighting? Does anyone else get the feeling that "captain level" is a pretty shaky concept? None of the captains seem to be on par with eachother... If you were to rate them on a scale of 1-10, they'd range from one end to the other... Tousen at 3 (sorry Squady) and Aizen at 9...

With hollow powers, Aizen would probably be a 10. Byakuya is 8-9ish on that scale. Kenpachi would be about a 6 if you look at it that way.

[LarryLunch]

get one thing straight though guys, im pretty sure zaraki is STRONGER
than byakuya in terms of actual strength. but byakuya might win because he is a BETTER FIGHTER. and zaraki gives advantages e.g. eye cover and bells
- -
yeah i go with kenpachi

[Tsuruko Shiro]

ichigo was scared of him when he was gonna to fiht for realz against ichigo
and ichigo jumped out the window


Ichigo would have jumnped through a wall if Byakuya hadda asked him to fight again.

[dyne]

get one thing straight though guys, im pretty sure zaraki is STRONGER than byakuya in terms of actual strength. but byakuya got this hands down because he is a BETTER FIGHTER. and zaraki took off his eye cover thing and still couldnt kill ichigo.

no hes not i dotn even like byakuya that much..zaraki sucks they just made him appear strong but ichigo fought him when he was shit and still was able to get a draw...ichigo ran away b.c zaraki is crazy and he didn't want to fight him b.c he would have to kill him to take him down

if you ask me byakuya, shunsui, yamamoto and ukitate are far above the other captains

[Kaze]

Word, I agree with dyne for once. Tho we didn't see Ukitate Fight, I think he'd be a much better Match for Byakuya, infact He'd probably beat him. But yea all in all I think these two are indeed weak. and the fight wouldn't really intrest me. But if I HAD to choose, it's be Zaraki, because he would fight to kill from the very beginning. And plus, he's crazy man. :/

[LarryLunch]

ukitake was byakuya's senpai

[jelly_angel]

kenpachi!! he is a moster that will fight til he dies...

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Byakuya will pwn Kenpachi.., its not that Ken-chan is weak...., just Byakuya is way more skilled and powerfull....Zaraki would be pretty much dead after a hit from Senbonzakura......
Byakuya>>>>>kenpachi.....


hahahahahaha look who's talking Byakuya Fan ...you Cant Say that we are depending in Facts here and you know VERY WELL THAT Zaraki Can kill most of the captains (he defeated 2 of them )and never less he still never used HIS BAN KAI when that happen come back and say that your Byakuya Could win Or even have a 1% chance of defeating ZARAKI KENPACHI ...................

[Aya]

its more than obvious that you are overrating Zaraki.I am just being realistic when saying Byakuya will pwn him.End.

[TGC]

Zaraki is strong, he's not one that should be underestimated. So far, I haven't seen anything from him that has impressed me though. He only relies on his immense spirit pressure, and he likes brutal fights. Byakuya on the other hand, is a universal type of fighter. He uses demon arts, he sword skills are impressive, and his shikai and bankai are fierce. Byakuya could probably take down Zaraki using the demon arts, like he took down Renji.

Taking all this into account Byakuya would win but then again we haven't seen Zaraki, who knows maybe he has already hear his swords cries.

[Tsuruko Shiro]

he still never used HIS BAN KAI

You are aware he can't use Bankai right?

[Zantetsuken]

I think Byakuya will pwn Zaraki...
So Byakuya ftw!

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

Taking all this into account Byakuya would win but then again we haven't seen Zaraki, who knows maybe he has already hear his swords cries.

Thats what I am waiting For because after that this power will not be limited

You are aware he can't use Bankai right?

For Now Yes he cant But you don't know what will happen later right maybe He will learn to use ban Kai..............

Lets Us watch Bleach Carefully and after this series end I will Open this Discussion with you _senb0nzakura_...............

[Chibidagger]

Byakuya would win just on the basis that he doesn't solely rely on his power to defeat opponents. He's smarter, faster, and has Ban Kai. But if Zaraki could pull off his Ban Kai THEN we would have something to worry about.

[Aya]

Thats what I am waiting For because after that this power will not be limited



For Now Yes he cant But you don't know what will happen later right maybe He will learn to use ban Kai..............

Lets Us watch Bleach Carefully and after this series end I will Open this Discussion with you _senb0nzakura_...............
cant wait for that .......btw....for your information.....i decided to check the votes till now, since there`s no poll......and thats the resault:
13 votes for Byakuya and only 3 for Zaraki....
sowwy.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

^All we have to Do is wait
PS:how many girls there are in this 13 votes

[khayman]

Zaraki is actually a fairly smart fighter, and probably definitely the most experienced other than maybe yamamoto, but he wouldn't beat Byakuya in his current state. Byakuya's overall mastery of all 4 fighting methods would just be too much. Zaraki is only good at hand to hand and "slashing", and he doesn't have access to shikai or bankai. If he solves that problem, even without mastering kidou (although that wouldn't hurt), he would be a force to be reckoned with.

[Tsuruko Shiro]

For Now Yes he cant But you don't know what will happen later right maybe He will learn to use ban Kai..............

Unless his bankai can like triple his speed, I still think Byakuya would win.

I think the fight with Ichigo proved that Zaraki isn't as powerful as people were making him out to be. The only thing that would put Kenpachi on equal footing with Byakuya is an exponential increase in speed. And still, Byakuya is skilled with kidou, giving him further advantage.

Reiatsu isn't everything.

[spacecat]

I like both of these captains but as they are rite now I think Byakuya would definately win unless it was a fight without magic/bankai/shikai/whatever. The Ichigo that Byakuya fought was way stronger than the one Kenpachi fought and both fights ended pretty even (as in both were about as messed up as each other on each occassion).
Kenpachi has mega potential though, can't wait to see if he ever gets to know his soul slayer... :)

[yoruichi_sama]

Zaraki Kenpachi
would lose

[Aya]

voting changed...16 - 3 for Byakuya-sama!!!!
btw...its good to see some more rational and realistic thinking ppl here......isnt it, zaraki?...lol

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

^......... *thinking "kill her Kill HER"*........its OK i don't mind if the vote goes like 1000000 to 3 there will be an end to this anime and then we can SAY who is the strongest One ..............

[Tsuruko Shiro]

^

And that person will be Byakuya. :)

[touchedvenus]

Byakuya gets my vote. The reasons I say this have already been stated by other people.

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

^

And that person will be Byakuya. :)


Senb0nzakura Add 2 more to your vote *Noob's they all taking the other Side maybe We Should Kill them all*

[Aya]

actually just one i already included tsuruko in the vote counts....
so, voting till now is 19 - 3 for Byakuya-sama...

[yoruichi_sama]

no no he will lose if he doesnt work on his bankai

[homoud_ps2]

Althoogh I love Kenpachi insanity , but to tell the truth he will not last 10 seconds againts Byakuya.

My vote is for Byakuya.

(ps. This is my first post :D )

[Shiba]

Funny though, there's a massive difference of power between captains. Although this isnt really the point in the Kenpachi vs Byakuya. Its more the lack of bankai, or even shikai, thats decisive here.

[LarryLunch]

so nobody is acknowledging zaraki... i mean come on i know hes insane but he did beat the previous captain of 11th division and i dont think that the captain was a pushover

[MagiciaN]

Byakuya will surely win!

[Zaraki Kenpachi]

^Whats wrong with you ppl.......I cant talk about this any longer Just Keep Dreaming of Byakuya wining against Kenpachi ......

[Onda]

I think these 2 are 2 really different type of fighters, one is blood thirsty fighter while the other one is "clean kill" type.....but if they are to be matched up at their current state now...I think Byakuya would win but it won't be an easy fight

[LarryLunch]

^ truly, its a noble vs. a murderer (or w/e he was) anyway

[iwan13]

zaraki would have pwned byakuya... cuz even ichigo could take a hit from senbozakura ...sooo its preety much clear bout that
__________________________________________________ _____________
mister t said
Byakuya would own Kenpachi... why??

Ichigo took down Kenpachi with a Shi Kai

And had to take down Byakuya with a Ban Kai... and it wasn't easy either...
__________________________________________________ _______________
ichigo used the bankai cuz he was kept at distance and ichigo didnt defet byakuya it was HICHIGO!
and ichigo didnt defeat zaraki it was zangetsu's power that helped him....
so basicly ichigo cant defeat any1 on his own :( ...its a sad fact ... i cant w8 till he gets better ... hes still a noob!

[Aya]

zaraki would`ve pwnd byakuya...o cmon are u dreaming or what....give some more proooves that this will happen....lol

[Onda]

lol I like the Byakuya's defenders defending him......Aizen would still bitchslap his pretty face easily though =)

[x~shiro chan~x]

no debate, byakuya! coz he's just amazing!!
lv his shikai and all the stages of bankai too much
although kenpachi has the supa cool guts!

[iwan13]

whaats with ya all ?!??! all absorbed in byakuya!? prove that he CAN beat zaraki!? and even gives advantiges to every oponent ...the bell and even the eye patch!

i dobut that byakuya could take on 2..and agan 2
captains at SAME time.... every1 seemed to forget that ! .... he got hit by komamura and tousen at same time by some super cool moves and it ended with his laughing at them ..... i belive that byakuya would become mince meat if he took those 2 blows ...cmon .... just think back and tell me then ! (plus byakuya needs time to release his senbonzakura)

[Onda]

Byakuya wouldn't get hit by the attacks in the 1st place....so he won't get stabbed by Tousen's attack, and I think he can beat them...if tousen release his bankai, then he just release his bankai and let his bankai make a shield around him...tousen can't attack him either...without bankai...I think tousen isn't hard to beat

[iwan13]

i dont think so ... u cant get shielded from tousens bankai.... cuz he makes a large scale bankai .... and it freazes the whole area.... and the victim of bankai gets to move only when gets hit by/holding his sword.....and byakuya does not have the body to take many strikes unlike zaraki ..... i think byakuya is cool i like him more than zaraki but i belive he would loose ... i started to grade captions like this ever since i saw hitsu got pwned by aizen.... it was kind of a stroke for me :(

[Emperor Kirby]

This would be a very entertaining fight, to be sure. However, Zaraki Kenpachi gets the emperor's bid to win.

Byakuya is a very skilled fighter with a very impressive shikai and bankai at his disposal, not to mention demon arts and general strategic fighting. However, he is not one to take much physical punishment at all. Ichigo gave him an indirect hit, and Hollow-Ichigo gave him one as well. After that, he only had enough power and energy to do one last attack. There was no wearing down Byakuya, just hit him three times and it's over.

Kenpachi, on the other hand, has no alternate forms of fighting. No shikai, much less a bankai. No demon arts. Little strategy other than "Make death upon anything moving." But that's really all he needs. He stood there against both Tousen and Komamura's shikais and laughed them off like they were nothing, even pulling giant blades out of his body and tossing them aside without a flinch. Both of these captains are incredibly powerful in their own right (later we saw Tousen slice off Grimmjaw's arm without even trying). Byakuya's shikai would bring much the same result.

The reason Tousen lost to Kenpachi despite such an overwhelming advantage is because Tousen underestimated Kenpachi. Byakuya has a consistent habit of underestimating his opponents. He declared Renji could not force him to his knees, of which he was proven wrong. He spoke ill of Ichigo's bankai only to find a sword to his throat. That was the end of that fight. Everything after that point in Byakuya's battle with Ichigo was simply the result of Ichigo's inexperience in taking opprotunities given to him. Then, given Kenpachi and Byakuya's verbal confrontation early in the Soul Society story, it's very obvious that Byakuya would once again underestimate his opponent, overconfident in his own abilities.

Given Kenpachi's tenacity, endurance, and mild insanity coupled with Byakuya's frailty and overconfidence, Zaraki Kenpachi would rise the victor. Though, he would probably look as if he'd been put through a meat grinder by the end of the fight. Not that he'd mind that anyways.

[LarryLunch]

@kirby

dude i LOVE you finally a KENPACHI defender!!!!! :)

[touchedvenus]

I told you he was a Kenpachi fan. :rolleyes:

[LarryLunch]

oh really? awesome
his explanations are so thorough, not just ''hes strong and hes cool''
i have yet to hear a damn reasonable defense for byakuya except ''hes fast'', ''he has different bankai forms'' or ''he is just byakuya''

[Emperor Kirby]

That's because Byakuya has no defense other than popularity.

[LarryLunch]

and i dont know why his bankai still left renji's body in one piece.. renji was half dead and it just cut him a little more which means that the cuts it give cant possibly be deep... if there are million cuts and they arent deep then whats the point

[Emperor Kirby]

Because it would amuse Kenpachi for a little bit before he slices Byakuya in half.

[iwan13]

@kirby

dude i LOVE you finally a KENPACHI defender!!!!! :)

HEEEEYY!!!! meanie ...and what was i doing ...sitting on a bench pealing a potato??? :mad:
u hurt me now~!

and i said the same thing as kirby not so detailed but all the same point ...
and i still zaraki is capable to pwn any1 and i expect from him to learn a bankai :p

[LarryLunch]

HEEEEYY!!!! meanie ...and what was i doing ...sitting on a bench pealing a potato??? :mad:
u hurt me now~!

and i said the same thing as kirby not so detailed but all the same point ...
and i still zaraki is capable to pwn any1 and i expect from him to learn a bankai :p

lol sorry dude i wasnt paying attention to this thread until kirby came, i guess your cool too :p

[iwan13]

too late im devastated...... cant u see that im crushed now :(
mourn meeeee~! ...LOL NO! ...... is ok...i was joking :p
but still not even a ntice of me ...sad sad boy i am now





well...maybe :cool:

[LarryLunch]

ur not emo are u

[touchedvenus]

Ahahahahaha, the same thought hit me as well Ryuujin.

[TGC]

Your response still doesn't convince at all...

[LarryLunch]

Your response still doesn't convince at all...

whose? i thought me and kirby did a pretty good job defending our respective choice

[Aya]

Your response still doesn't convince at all...
yesh i agree....it didnt convinced me at all.....pretty poor statement..:)

[Emperor Kirby]

Don't even start Ms. Plagiarist. Your only defense is "Prove Kenpachi is gonna win. 'Cuz I like Byakuya more and since Byakuya is prettier than Kenpachi he's the winner." If you want to say something in your defense, do so. If you're going to just say "Byakuya's the winner and you haven't convinced me otherwise" then you have no say in teh matter, you're just throwin in your unwanted and unfounded opinion.

[Aya]

i already said why ken will be pwned...i found it pointless toi repeat myself but w/e......just put ken in ichigos place in the fight Byakuya vs. ichigo....and then compare ichigo`s fighting abilities with kenpachis.......do i have to say somthing else.....cmon...be realistic...ken even doesnt even achieve ban kai yet..........><

[Emperor Kirby]

Kenpachi doesn't need a bankai to defeat Byakuya. He has no limitations in the realm of pain and endurance. Byakuya can't survive more than three hits. Byakuya could hit Kenpachi with his bankai, and Kenpachi wouldn't care. Renji, who had already been struck within an inch of his life, and then hit by Byakuya's bankai, was not killed. Renji can't even begin to compare to Kenpachi's fortitude, yet he survived Byakuya's bankai even after being struck down.

Kenpachi thrives on pain, it delights him. Byakuya can't handle pain and injury at all. Byakuya having a bankai is meaningless if it cannot stop Kenpachi, and I sincerely doubt it could.

If having a bankai meant there was no contest, Tousen and Komamura would've defeated Kenpachi. They did not. Byakuya's bankai can hardly be considered more debilitating than Tousen's, and yet Kenpachi not only survived it, he relished in the newfound challenge.

[Aya]

if u dont know ban kai is the higher level that shinigami can obtain...And yes ken not even neads ban kai to defeat byakuya....he needs to mastere it...witch i highly doubt that his able to do.
its just imposible ken wont be able to survive after a hit /well, maybe second hit/from senbonzakura its prooven fact even renji couldnt do it and hes way beter than ken chan... ichigo did survived only coz of hichigo`s powers inside him.Theres no way for Byakuya to allow kenpachi to cut him.

[Kisuke]

i 100% agree with zakura! ken sucks sorry!

[Emperor Kirby]

You suggest that Renji is stronger and more capable a fighter than Kenpachi? Hardly. The only thing Renji has over Kenpachi is his relationship with Zabimaru.

It was explicitly stated that not only did Kenpachi challenge and defeat the prior captain of the eleventh division, but he is also the only one incapable of even calling upon his zanpakutou. It was also clearly stated that the rest of the squads accepted this, given their acknowledgement of Kenpachi's power and need for such a captain.

Renji could never hope to accomplish this. To even suggest that Renji could take on and defeat one captain, much less two at the same time as Kenpachi has, is ridiculous.

Please, do not allow your incredibly biased opinions of the characters to determine the outcome of the match. You will need a stronger defense than "Byakuya has bankai, so he wins."

i 100% agree with zakura! ken sucks sorry!

Again, provide evidence of your proposal, otherwise your unfounded declarations are trite and meaningless. "ken sucks sorry!" simply shows that you have not given consideration to the match, only that you prefer the more popular character and thus blinded to more plausible outcomes.

[Aya]

You suggest that Renji is stronger and more capable a fighter than Kenpachi? Hardly. The only thing Renji has over Kenpachi is his relationship with Zabimaru.


as long as i remember the relationsip with the soul slayer is one of the main conditions to become REALLY good fighter.

[Kisuke]

well i shal say it again as i said in another topic. even do ken took tousen and the eleventh div captain dosnt meen he is so good as everybody says. the "only" way to take Byak is by speed or a much better bankai. the only! and i say ONLY reason ichigo suvied was that his speed is so high, and he could cut all the "blades" "flowers". can ken do that? dont think so. byak is so much faster, smarter!! and much more exprienes. if they were to fight the thing that would happen was that ken would let him attack him, so what byak would to is get behind and try to stap him, and he will, and ken will say "i am suprised that youre blades could cut me" and byak would say "you who has no bankai can never beat me in 10 000 years" and ken would be realice youre bankai, and he would say i dont need a bankai for you. and so on. the speed that his bankai has when he uses his had is to fast for ken. there is simpy no way he could take him

[Aya]

well i shal say it again as i said in another topic. even do ken took tousen and the eleventh div captain dosnt meen he is so good as everybody says. the "only" way to take Byak is by speed or a much better bankai. the only! and i say ONLY reason ichigo suvied was that his speed is so high, and he could cut all the "blades" "flowers". can ken do that? dont think so. byak is so much faster, smarter!! and much more exprienes. if they were to fight the thing that would happen was that ken would let him attack him, so what byak would to is get behind and try to stap him, and he will, and ken will say "i am suprised that youre blades could cut me" and byak would say "you who has no bankai can never beat me in 10 000 years" and ken would be realice youre bankai, and he would say i dont need a bankai for you. and so on. the speed that his bankai has when he uses his had is to fast for ken. there is simpy no way he could take him
100 % agree. rep points for u..............:p

[Emperor Kirby]

as long as i remember the relationsip with the soul slayer is one of the main conditions to become REALLY good fighter.

So utterly destroying a captain and easily fending off another captain at the same time until Komamura ran off does not mean Kenpachi is an incredible fighter, even though Renji could never hope to take on either of them individually with a positive result?

As I've said before, Kenpachi has proven time and again that he does not need a bankai. The Gouten 13 agreed. He is far more powerful and capable a warrior than need be.

Byakuya, much more experienced? Hardly. Kenpachi has been living an afterlife of violence ever since he showed up in Rukongai, as shown by his and Yachiru's background story. Kenpachi is not slow, Kenpachi is not stupid. He does, however, thoroughly enjoy fighting, more than anything else. Byakuya's cockiness in "You who has no bankai can never beat me in 10,000 years" has no bearing on the match.

I've clearly stated my reasoning as to why Byakuya's bankai has little relevance on the outcome of this battle, and my reasoning is very well founded. The only defense senb0nzakura and you, Kisuke, has offered is "Byakuya is fast and has bankai, and everyone likes him more so he'd win." Please, come up with better, more infallible reasoning of your own.

[Aya]

no. u r quiet wrong.and stubbern..... and defending ken blindly........i feel sorry for u.read carefully all posts........all defence THAT U r giving is *OMG .i love kan chan so he is going to win and thats it.*
and buyakuya aint cocky for no reason.HE IS JUST UBERISH THAN KEN.LOL
hes noble after all....agr for christ sake!open your eyes!

[Onda]

If you really want to examine this match deeply...it all come back to 1 thing: who writes the script and scenario....because whoever has the lower advantage can come out as the victor if the author decides it that way...like he only has 1 chance and he took it and win....there's a lot of that kind of scenes in anime and manga

Zaraki does have big power and brute force, but if Ichigo can cut him without having bankai, I think it's fair to say that Byakuya has enough reiatsu to be able to cut Zaraki. And throughout the manga or anime I have never seen Ken does a shyunpo, he runs fast but that's different than shyunpo. On that factor Byakuya has the upper hand, even though it doesn't determine the outcome of the battle.
One thing you have to remember though, Renji was dieing until Unohana came and restored his health before Hanatarou came and finished it up. Byakuya's bankai has a destructive power and high speed, it almost catch Ichigo at his bankai form with superhuman speed. Other than that, he has Senkei, if those blades were to come at Kenpachi all in once like he did to Renji (not all in case of Renji) and stabbed by thousand blades, no matter how strong he is, he would be dead. He only used 2 blades out of thousands on the fight against Ichigo and he forced Hichigo to come out. Imagine if he uses all of them? If they want to test brute force..Byakuya with his final form of bankai the white blade thing has an advantage against Kenpachi even though in form of reiatsu they almost equal, let's say Kenpachi is stronger in reiatsu but Byakuya has Senbonzakura power like Ichigo had Zangetsu, that makes it 2 vs 1 because Kenpachi can just use his sword like a regular swordsman without special form of attack.

[Aya]

^finaly someone who thinks rational!!t y for ur oppinion onda!

[Onda]

No problem I guess.
We all have to remember the way the fight goes and who would win all depends to who write it. We all can write 2 different ending to a fight and just have to figure out HOW it would end the way we want to. But since the debate was based on Manga by Kubo then what I said so far so good according to me.
I hope they just won't come out and say "If he takes all the senkei blades, he can stand it and still laugh" because that would be really pushing the edge. There are at least 100 blades in senkei if not thousand, human body can be so big. If all 100 blades stab someone even someone as big as Kenpachi, pretty much they would cover every cm of the body. Senkei blades don't attack the way Tousen's blades do, Byakuya control the movement, each and every one of the blade whereas Tousen just throwing bunch of blades to Kenpachi and only got him injured in few spots. If he would use all the blades against Ichigo I think Ichigo would be dead, but then again the story would end right? =)

[Emperor Kirby]

no. u r quiet wrong.and stubbern..... and defending ken blindly........i feel sorry for u.read carefully all posts........all defence THAT U r giving is *OMG .i love kan chan so he is going to win and thats it.*
and buyakuya aint cocky for no reason.HE IS JUST UBERISH THAN KEN.LOL
hes noble after all....agr for christ sake!open your eyes!

And I'm the one blindly defending a character? Right... And my thoughts are quite rational senb0nzakura, they just happen to be in disagreement with your own. If anything, mine are far more rational.

Though, I must agree with her. Thank you, Onda, for a valid defense coupled with evidence and rational thought beyond "HE IS JUST UBERISH THAN KEN.LOL"

On that note... you're right. It does appear as if Kenpachi does not have shunpo. In fact, I doubt he does, as it's a high level feat that requires special training and skill in manipulating and focusing reiatsu. That would definitely give Byakuya a distinct advantage. And again, you're right, Byakuya would most likely be able to cut Kenpachi without using bankai. However, the same goes for Kenpachi. He could easily cut Byakuya as well.

As far as the destructive power of Byakuya's bankai, it has been made evident through Renji and Ichigo's meetings with the bankai that these are not deep, grievous wounds, but more like 10,000 surface wounds. As far as senkei, that all depends if Kenpachi is willing to sit around and wait for it to hit him. It's possible he would, but after allowing Byakuya to unleash the first form of his bankai, it's doubtful Kenpachi would let up afterwards. Even if Byakuya did begin the attack, Kenpachi could still focus on attacking Byakuya. During his fight with Ichigo, Byakuya states that senkei is devoid of all defenses, leaving him open to easily fatal attacks from Kenpachi.

[Kisuke]

hehe you are so right onda. and lets start the qouteing

Komamura ran off
well, he didnt just run off, he went for a reason

The Gouten 13 agreed
it was the rules not something they agree on :D

Byakuya, much more experienced? Hardly
well what is Experience?is it what you said that he lived in violence?
or the fact that Byakuya has had years and years of training and the fact that he is a noble, the stronges in that house history.

Kenpachi is not stupid.
the fact that he cant sence Reitsu kinda says it self


and the reason ichigo and renji could still fight was the love for rukia. not love love but you know ^^

and you are also right with many points Kirby but i think that Byak as the advantages on his side

[Onda]

Yup Senkei form meaning there's no defensive given by the blades for Byakuya, instead all power are focusing on killing the enemy, he also said that on pretty much the same sentence when he explained Senkei. All defence he has in Senkei form is the sword he holds on his hand, he's not a sloppy fighter using sword while he has hundred blades that can attack from every angle except from the ground just by thinking of it or a small movements of fingers on his other hand.

[Onda]

the fact that he cant sence Reitsu kinda says it self

You got that one wrong, he can sense reiatsu that's how he knows Ichigo was the strongest out of the 3 (Ganju, Hanatarou and Ichigo) and that's how he knows that Komamura and Tousen along with their VC's were hiding their presences. What he can't do is finding the person since he has poor sense of directions, but if they right in front of him then he can sense them.

[iwan13]

ur not emo are u
emo??? do u mean emotional?? nah im just joking aorund ..i just dont like being ignored
on to topic.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~
da it! u ppl r blind i totalyu agree with kirby! byakuya cant win against kenpachi ok ! he defeated the previous 11th division captain he defeated tousen and komamura ..... and crap load of other ppl tha we dont know about ... and still u insist on preety oy byakuya....the guy is cool and more likeble char but CMON!
byakuya is weak in body while zaraki can take on a stampede!!!!!
ILL MAKE U ALL THINK DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :cool: :cool: :p :p ;) ;) :eek: :eek: :o :mad: :confused: :confused: :) :) ;)

[Kisuke]

You got that one wrong, he can sense reiatsu that's how he knows Ichigo was the strongest out of the 3 (Ganju, Hanatarou and Ichigo) and that's how he knows that Komamura and Tousen along with their VC's were hiding their presences. What he can't do is finding the person since he has poor sense of directions, but if they right in front of him then he can sense them.

ah i see^^ my bad. thx for straighting that up

[Aya]

emo??? do u mean emotional?? nah im just joking aorund ..i just dont like being ignored
on to topic.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~
da it! u ppl r blind i totalyu agree with kirby! byakuya cant win against kenpachi ok ! he defeated the previous 11th division captain he defeated tousen and komamura ..... and crap load of other ppl tha we dont know about ... and still u insist on preety oy byakuya....the guy is cool and more likeble char but CMON!
byakuya is weak in body while zaraki can take on a stampede!!!!!
ILL MAKE U ALL THINK DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :cool: :cool: :p :p ;) ;) :eek: :eek: :o :mad: :confused: :confused: :) :) ;)
are you thinking with your head?byakuya aint weak and the fact that zaraki defeated koma and previous captain aint prooving he will defeat byakuya coz byakuya is way beter than these 2 that zaraki defeated.u r blinder than tousen imo....lol...............:p

[iwan13]

Yup Senkei form meaning there's no defensive given by the blades for Byakuya, instead all power are focusing on killing the enemy, he also said that on pretty much the same sentence when he explained Senkei. All defence he has in Senkei form is the sword he holds on his hand, he's not a sloppy fighter using sword while he has hundred blades that can attack from every angle except from the ground just by thinking of it or a small movements of fingers on his other hand.
oh yeh i forgot bout this ...senkey abandons all defenses and gives it alll into killing his oponrnt ...and still zaraki can stand aloooot of beating and pwn byakuya in his bankai!!!!!

[Emperor Kirby]

well what is Experience?is it what you said that he lived in violence?
or the fact that Byakuya has had years and years of training and the fact that he is a noble, the stronges in that house history.


I never said Byakuya had no experience, simply that Kenpachi was not without his own special form of training... also known as killing everyone.

I realize that Byakuya further explains that his Senkei fully devotes itself to killing his opponent, but as iwan13 mentioned, Kenpachi can take far more of a beating than can Byakuya. This is, of course, assuming that Kenpachi allows Byakuya to initiate this form of the bankai, and allows himself to be hit by it. Even if Byakuya repeatedly stabbed or slashed Kenpachi, it wouldn't slow him down, much less stop him. Kenpachi has proven on more than one occasion to be willing to pull a sword deeper into him to get a better vantage point from which to stab his opponent.

[iwan13]

^YEAH WHAT HE SAID!!!!

tell em kirby! sheesh ... zakura is blinded by byakuya just on basis that hes her fovorite ... like i said b4 u CANT play favorites in this kind of disscusion ... if i played favorites i would have said byakuya but ..the fact is ...ZARAKI KENPACHI qould OWN byakuya

[Aya]

^YEAH WHAT HE SAID!!!!

tell em kirby! sheesh ... zakura is blinded by byakuya just on basis that hes her fovorite ... like i said b4 u CANT play favorites in this kind of disscusion ... if i played favorites i would have said byakuya but ..the fact is ...ZARAKI KENPACHI qould OWN byakuya
believe me i am not playing favourits i am just being realistic.It was pointed multiplie times why would byakuya pwn kenpachi just deal with it .Wonder whos playing favourits.....
edit: i need to know why was i negrepped for saying that i agree with TGC`S statement i am really curious >< and i know who it was.

[Panther]

Don't even start Ms. Plagiarist.

You already committed the straw man fallacy and prejudicial language. The rest of your contents do not even need to be taken into account.

[Shiba]

people people, lets keep it friendly. And byakuya would in fact win. Ichigo needed a bankai just to be equal to him.

[LarryLunch]

Ichigo needed a bankai just to be equal to him.

yeah but at the same time byakuya had to use ALL THREE forms just to equal ichigo's ONE bankai so that doesn't prove anything in this case

[iwan13]

ARGH! .... quit comparing those to with ichigos wining!!! i keep telling u ichigo DID NOT beat byakuya it was HICHIGO
remeber ichigo was standing still waiting to get sliced by byakuya and then hichigo beat the crap of byauya
and when he was fighting zaraki zangetsu gave his everything for ichigo to win. and then ichi barely made it alive ..... and if i remeber correctly zaraki was the last standing!!! and he needed like 1 day to recover! GO FIGURE PPL!

[Onda]

Well you have to think that Ichigo's reiatsu growing exponentially, I think both Byakuya and Kenpachi reiatsu don't grow that fast. Well like I said, if all Senkei blades stabbed him in 1 attack, that would be almost impossible for anyone to walk. Just imagine you got stabbed in 100 spots (if there's enough room in your body to accept 100 stabs), and if you still say that he can still walk then I can't argue anymore. He pulled 1 sword deeper to catch Tousen, it's only 1 sword, not a whole 100 blades in senkei. Maybe he can take 10 stabs and still move but a whole body stabbed, but he fell to floor after 1 big slice from zangetsu's getsuga tenshou (in weak form). If he can take 100 swords and still move I'm pretty sure 1 slice from getsuga tenshou isn't doing anything to him.

[voldy18]

yeah but at the same time byakuya had to use ALL THREE forms just to equal ichigo's ONE bankai so that doesn't prove anything in this case

Not only that, but Ichigo hadn't even fully mastered his bankai. Yet he still won despite having only achieved it a few hours before. And Byakuya has had his for decades!

Still, I think Byakuya would win against Zaraki - barely, because he seems to be a more well-rounded fighter. He is not only strong, but also very fast and I believe more tactical than Zaraki. And that bankai of his is also very dangerous.

[Ash]

@ panther

stfu

[TGC]

This would be a very entertaining fight, to be sure. However, Zaraki Kenpachi gets the emperor's bid to win.

Byakuya is a very skilled fighter with a very impressive shikai and bankai at his disposal, not to mention demon arts and general strategic fighting. However, he is not one to take much physical punishment at all. Ichigo gave him an indirect hit, and Hollow-Ichigo gave him one as well. After that, he only had enough power and energy to do one last attack. There was no wearing down Byakuya, just hit him three times and it's over.

Kenpachi, on the other hand, has no alternate forms of fighting. No shikai, much less a bankai. No demon arts. Little strategy other than "Make death upon anything moving." But that's really all he needs. He stood there against both Tousen and Komamura's shikais and laughed them off like they were nothing, even pulling giant blades out of his body and tossing them aside without a flinch. Both of these captains are incredibly powerful in their own right (later we saw Tousen slice off Grimmjaw's arm without even trying). Byakuya's shikai would bring much the same result.

The reason Tousen lost to Kenpachi despite such an overwhelming advantage is because Tousen underestimated Kenpachi. Byakuya has a consistent habit of underestimating his opponents. He declared Renji could not force him to his knees, of which he was proven wrong. He spoke ill of Ichigo's bankai only to find a sword to his throat. That was the end of that fight. Everything after that point in Byakuya's battle with Ichigo was simply the result of Ichigo's inexperience in taking opprotunities given to him. Then, given Kenpachi and Byakuya's verbal confrontation early in the Soul Society story, it's very obvious that Byakuya would once again underestimate his opponent, overconfident in his own abilities.

Given Kenpachi's tenacity, endurance, and mild insanity coupled with Byakuya's frailty and overconfidence, Zaraki Kenpachi would rise the victor. Though, he would probably look as if he'd been put through a meat grinder by the end of the fight. Not that he'd mind that anyways.

Byakuya underestimated two opponents of whom he already knew. Ichigo and Renji. Although he took a while beating Renji, it was apparent that he was his superior. It was all over once Renji was spellbound, Byakuya didn't even need to use his bankai at that moment, he could have easily just stabbed him that's all. He showed his bankai to show his dominance...He underestimated him because he knew he was stronger and in the end the victor was Byakuya

With Ichigo he fought him twice, the first time he owned him by just using shunpo. The second time Ichigo trained hard as hell and achieved bankai. Ofcourse he underestimated him because why would any human have such spiritual power in the first place. Everyone saw him as a weakling. We all know Ichigo is special but Byakuya didn't, he knew nothing of him, so underestimating him is pretty much a given for a noble.

With Kenpachi, I'm sure he knows plenty about Kenpachi's insane reiatsu, there's no reason why he should even underestimate him. Everyone knows he became a captain by beating the old one with his strength alone. Knowing he doesn't bankai let alone shikai, Byakuya knows what type of fighter he would be. Byakuya, like I said before, is a universal fighter his knowledge of Kidou is quite amazing, and it got him through some tough spots, and his shikai and Bankai are destructive. Avoiding Kenpachi's attacks would be a good strategy, using his bankai and slicing him good, then using senkei would finish him off for good.

Even though Kenpanchi is resistent to any cut or katana attack, there is a limit to how much he can be sliced and diced. Even Ikkaku and that one guy( the one that absorbs reiatsu) were talking about it when Kenpachi was fighting Ichigo. If he continued fighting Ichigo that way he would eventually die. Ichigo cut him many times, but multiply this by one thousand blades that's hard for one to see, the reasult is pretty bad as it was shown when Gangu was taken down. Sure Kenpachi can resist multiple attacks but just cut off his arms and it's done, and I'm sure Byakuyas bankai can do this.

Theres no doubt this fight would be long but the victor would be Byakuya.

[Panther]

@ Ninj4fox: The opposite of pro, you. :p

@ iwan13: You have been blackmarked.

[Kiosu]

Er... anyway, regressing back to the original debate...

My money's on Byakuya. Sure, Kenpachi has a tremendous amount of sheer power, but in a prolonged fight, sheer power can only get you so far. Sure, Kenpachi is definitely the type to fight until he can physically fight no more (read: he is hacked into pieces and/or dies), but Byakuya just seems like the type who would be well aware of this and wouldn't stop until that actually happened to Kenpachi.

[LarryLunch]

yeah but what ive been saying is that senbonzakura and its bankai doesnt seem to give cuts that are deep enough... like i said when renji was half dead it hit him perfectly and he was nowhere ''hacked into pieces'' Also it seems that you guys are doubting kenpachi's speed.. hes not wearing the bells for no reason, if he was as slow as you guys think, then why would the opponent lose sight of him in the first place? the bell is there to HELP THE OPPONENT know his position.. ANd the eyepatch, im not sure what that does, looks like it somehow reduces his power because when he took it off there was a reitsu explosion sort of thing around him so im guessing that will also be a helping factor

you guys just cant say that byakuya is more fit

[Onda]

Rukia said that Shunpo that Byakuya did few times is only a tip of his full speed. He used to play tag with Yoruichi, even though he never caught the Goddess of Flash but I'm sure he's pretty close to her speed. Kenpachi is fast when it comes to running but Shunpo is much faster than running. His bells are used to give advantage to his weaker opponents in order to create some "balance". Do you still think Kenpachi still gives Byakuya that advantages? I don't think so. Unless he just being naive and think he can beat byakuya with his eyepatch and bells. I don't think he's that dumb if he knows what Byakuya can do.

[kotetsu]

kenpachi!! he is a moster that will fight til he dies...

exactly!
if he fought Byakuya and Byakuya just did a Shikai on Ken den Ken would keep fighting on and prob kill himslef from pushing himslef too far:D

[R a y]

They're both good, I'll give them that. Kenpachi with his insane amout of reiatsu, but from what I see, Byakuya has a very well developed bankai. Three stages, wow. He seems to have bankai down. To have that defeated by Ichigo, well that was thanks to the hollow, right? And like someone said, Kenpachi doesn't have much other than his insane amout of spiritual power that scares the living daylights out of everyone. He isn't all that fast, just crazy about fighting, so I think Byakuya would win. Byakuya's the quiet, calculating type. He'd either win by simply more power, or by outsmarting Kenpachi, I think.

[LarryLunch]

but byakuya knows that kenpachi isnt all that smart and is gonna act arrogant which often leads to the downfall

[HellsFait]

ummm...as much as I do think Byakuya would win, do not forget that Kenpachi did beat 2 bankai's in a row, and he is pretty darn smart to be able to evade tousen when he can't see, small, or hear... I don't think it would be an ownage fight, but Byakuya would come out on top.

[Kilano]

Umm.. is this even a contet? Ichigo managed to beat Kenpachi before training and getting his Bankai.

[BleachoverdoseIT]

Byakuya...would eat Zaraki for breakfast. No he would just plain ol kick his azz!

[Bullet]

Byakuya too! Zaraki wouldn't even stand one minute in a fight with this guy.

[BlZ]

ummm...as much as I do think Byakuya would win, do not forget that Kenpachi did beat 2 bankai's in a row, and he is pretty darn smart to be able to evade tousen when he can't see, small, or hear... I don't think it would be an ownage fight, but Byakuya would come out on top.


What he said. ^^

[X-Crusader]

Byakuya would probably win, but I think he would have to use Senbonzakura Kageyoshi to beat Zaraki.

[Espada_Bankai]

Byakuya all the way, Zaraki is cool but he lacks shikai and bankai. Ichigo was able to beat Kenpachi without bankai and he needed bankai so he could even damage Byakuya.

[Zabimaru]

yeah i agree and if he had his bankai definitly kenpachi.it has nothing to do with blood line if it did Urahara and Yoruichi would be the first four and all .

[LarryLunch]

I really don't know how to defend either of them in this battle.. they each have their own advantages that can very well be the deciding factor.

mayb i will do a byakuya vs kenpachi in my fic :p

[Zabimaru]

you do fanfics

[LarryLunch]

yeah its in the literature section check it out lol

[great_shinigami]

i think if Bya-kun and Ken-chan had a match, then the winner is Bya-kun.. even i'm like Ken-chan too :( Coz i think Bya-kun more great in appiled his bankai Technique.. For sure that Ken-chan can't use his bankai err i think doesn't have bankai technique :p ...*running from ken-chan fans*

[Hotaru]

I will see it in 2 condition:
1st Condition:Kenpachi w/o bankai percentage win 0.5%
Byakuya percentage win 99.5%

2nd Condition: Kenpachi with Bankai 80%
Byakuya's 20%

thats what i look ^^

[Aya]

Kenpachi with Bankai 80%
Byakuya's 20%

you do realise that kenpachi achieving bankai is pretty much imposible dont you?

[an-chan]

Blah, :yawn: you never know...his love for fights is stronger than any Shi Kai and may be some day even Ban Kai...
Whoa, :confused: ...now Byakuya really is insanely fast...
Even if he gets hit once don't think there'd be a second hit...
Then again If Ken manages to strike just once that might be enough for him to defeat Byakuya...
Dunno...How about there stregth is equal:p

[Nielleshee]

I lean in favor of Byakuya, his fighting style is a lot more refined and his mastery of his zampakutou is almost unmatched. With the exception of Ichigo (he did have bankai...), I don't think that anyone could beat him with just brute force e.g Renji (even with bankai) and (poor ganju)

Kenpachi would just get all excited and laugh as Senbonzakura dices him to pieces, at least it would be a cool fight *dodges punch from Ken fans*

[Knives]

although I'm Ken-chan's fan i think Byaku would own him.
But if Ken-chan achieves ban kai Byakuya's chances to survive would be less than 0,001%. I don't think there is anyone who could match Kenpachi with ban kai.... maybe Aizen&Urahara.... maybe ;)

[Hotaru]

you do realise that kenpachi achieving bankai is pretty much imposible dont you?
nope. i just say IF kenpachi get bankai then his winning chance is much bigger than no bankai. but, i think he will get it, im pretty sure about it.

[Bullet]

I doubt he'll be getting it anytime soon... And if it does it'll ruin, for me, his badass image. What makes him unique is the fact that he's so strong without Shikai/Bankai. Also, who knows if Kenpachi has already reached his "limit/wall" because Aizen said that you can't go any farther than that without becoming a Hollow. Just a theory =p. Back on topic... Byakuya FTW. Same reasons as everyone else.

[soraman2412]

kenpachi ftw, the strongest shinigami ever (or the one who killed the most?)... he wins against tousen bankai and maybe he'll win against komamura...

[Aya]

kenpachi ftw, the strongest shinigami ever (or the one who killed the most?)... he wins against tousen bankai and maybe he'll win against komamura...

tousen is really lame and the fact kenpachi wins against him(no mather the fact tousen bankai mode or not) doesnt means a shit and how come he is the strongest shinigami ever are you retard?

[soraman2412]

tousen is really lame and the fact kenpachi wins against him(no mather the fact tousen bankai mode or not) doesnt means a shit and how come he is the strongest shinigami ever are you retard?

dude, first of all chill down a bit...the fact that i said he's the strongest shinigami doesnt make me a retard...i got a bit twisted in the information about his last name (kenpachi)...is it the strongest or the one who killed the most....and yes its true tousen bankai is really lame but no matter how lame it is, tousen's a captain...cause kenpachi love to fight so much, he could probably owned baykuya..

[dyne]

dude, first of all chill down a bit...the fact that i said he's the strongest shinigami doesnt make me a retard...i got a bit twisted in the information about his last name (kenpachi)...is it the strongest or the one who killed the most....and yes its true tousen bankai is really lame but no matter how lame it is, tousen's a captain...cause kenpachi love to fight so much, he could probably owned baykuya..

zaraki is not even close to teh same level as byakuya, he lost to ichigo when he was shit ichigo had to go ban kai against byakuya and only won because of anti ichigo

[ESCA = NOOB OMG LOLZ]

Byakuya wins.

Seriously, Ichigo beat him and wasn't even in Bankai, how the hell is Kenpachi gonna take on someone who went toe to toe with Ichigo in Hollow form?

[yukihime]

Agree with Escaa!?. I think Bya-kun would win.

[Kisuke_Urahara]

There isn't even a fight in this one, rather than a "dissappearance". Ichigo was dead even with Zaraki Kenpachi (eyepatch removed, mind you) in their fight, and he only had his shikai. After that fight, Ichigo had to be saved by Yoruichi simply from Byakuya's initial release. It took Ichigo's bankai to take on Byakuya, and, due to his lack of mastery of his final release, his endurace burned out and he almost died anyways.

Zaraki is so far away from Byakuya in power, it's not even comparible. Frankly, Kenpachi would be dead as soon as Byakuya released his shikai.

This whole match-up is no contest.

[Yomi]

I agree with the above comment. "This match up is no contest."
Kenpachi might seem a little bit powerful when we first see him but he really isn't all you think he is once you get a little bit more into the series.
Byakuya would pwn Kenpachi even without using his Shikai.

And I quote: "In the world of Shinigami, speed defies the winner." A great Kuchiki saying that is~

Byakuya seems to be in advantage there as well, also in strength. Kenpachi's Zanpaktou may be pretty old, but Byakuya definately has more experience than Kenpachi does.

[Sublime]

I agree, this wouldn't even be a match. It would be more of a beat down, the only thing Kenpachi can do is run and slice. This type of tactic against Byakuya who is a textbook fighter is useless, also Byakuya's shikai wouldn't even allow Kenpachi to come anywhere near him. Besides Byakuya would be too fast to hit anyway.

[Kisuke_Urahara]

Byakuya unreleased spiritual pressure>/=Zaraki Kenpachi. Stated.

The individuals that stated this however, had only felt his spiritual pressure prior to the removal of his eyepatch (which I would personally see as the equivolent of a shikai release, if not a bit more).

From that we can establish that....

Kuchiki Byakuya (unreleased)>/=Zaraki Kenpachi (reiatsu drain in effect).

Basically, Byakuya's shikai should be enough to match Kenpachi at full power. Maybe beat him. Bankai (5-10x stronger), even first stage would be ridiculous.

[Yomi]

Err.. question for Kisuke_Urahara, what does >/= mean??

[Ryu-loneflower]

its hard to decide who would win out of Byakuya and Kenpachi..
im guessing it would be a heck of a long battle..
but im gonna say..
actually i cant really decide..
mabye they would end up killing eachother because they could be equally matched..
haha

[Tyrconnell]

Err.. question for Kisuke_Urahara, what does >/= mean??
Greater than/equal to

[Strawberry Yuki]

Everyone is saying that Ichigo had to use bankai to defeat Byakuya, but Ichigo does state that he shouldn't have thought he could take on a bankai when he hasn't started releasing it yet, so we can deduce that Ichigo needs his bankai to defeat Byakuya's own bankai, not Byakuya himself. Ichigo's shikai stopped Byakuya's shikai, which show that if Igchigo had not goaded Byakuya into releasing his bankai, he could have been able to win against Byakuya, if both had just been using shikai.
Anyway, to the point:
Based on the level that Ichigo was when he fought Zaraki, he was powerful enough to pretty much match Zaraki, so it is plausable that Zaraki would be able to survive Byakuya's Senbonzakura (if you put him as being as strong as Ichigo at Shikai level). However, Byakuya needs time to release Senbonzakura, and if his blade is touched during that time the release stops (Shown by Yourichi and Renji).
Judging by Zaraki's fighting style, it's likely that Zaraki would not give Byakura time to release Senbonzakura in between attacks, he would keep attacking, forcing Byakuya to block Zaraki's attacks and cancelling the release of Senbonzakura. Thus, it would be possible for Zaraki to win against Byakuya, providing he did not let up in his attacks and give Byakuya chance to release his sword.
As has been stated by others, Zaraki has the physical build to be able to take hits, however Byakuya does not have this same advantage. Considering if Byakuya did manage to release Senbonzakura, it's likely that Zaraki would be able to survive it and still manage to get in some hits on Byakuya. Zaraki would be able to take two or three hits from Senbonzakura, and in doing this he would be able to attack Byakuya a fair few times, and as I stated previously, Byakuya does not look able to stand the hits (1 hit from Gin's Shikai took him down). So if Zaraki had the chances to hit Byakuya, he could easily win, though he would get hurt in the process.
However if Byakuya had the chance to release his bankai, then it is likely that he would defeat Zaraki.
But my vote is still for Zaraki, purely because I think he would beat Byakuya before he could release bankai.

[Kisuke_Urahara]

No offense, but your opinions on this are entirely based on who you would like to win, unfortunately (or so it seems, atleast). There is no plausible way to justify any of the things you have just said.

It was stated, plain and simple, by an individual who had felt Zaraki's pressure from before he removed his eye-patch that Kuchiki Byakuya, while in his unreleased state, had a level of reiatsu equal to, and possibly even greater than Zaraki's. Zaraki stated that, after Ichigo's revival, they were even....and then corrected himself, and said that Ichigo was stronger, though not be a huge margin. Zaraki removes his eyepatch, and Ichigo is able to bring himself exactly up to his level simply by reiatsu sharing with Zangetsu and focussing his power...do you think by that, he could get more than twice as strong? If you look at it in a realistic sense, there's no way Zaraki's increase could far surpass that of, say, shikai...maybe equal to a shikai reiatsu multiplication, tops. But for Byakuya to be atleast equal to, and probably stronger than Zaraki when subject to reiatsu drain from his eyepatch, in his unreleased state is a clear indicater that even at the roof of his power, with his eyepatch removed, the most Zaraki could possibly amount to is in the range of....Byakuya's shikai. And if I were to guess...I'd say that's stronger than him. Now let's say Byakuya releases bankai...bankai multiplies reiatsu by 5-10x. You become 5-10x stronger. Note that this was directly stated to Ichigo who was permanently in his shikai state, by Yoruichi....which heavily indicates that it is 5-10x the shikai power. So the very least difference there could even possibly be between Byakuya and Kenpachi is a difference of 5x. Considering Byakuya's mastered his bankai to the point that he can harness it's power in 3 different forms, even the multiplier for it's initial stage is inevitably more than 5x. Then there's his bankai's second stage...and yet a third. As I've said, this isn't a fight. It's an execution.

Ichigo was undeniably stronger in his shikai form when he fought Byakuya than when he fought Zaraki. Just the fact that he was able to overpower Byakuya's shikai when we know that it's atleast in the same range as Zaraki's full power proves that. Conclusively. Not to mention he couldn't even use the getsuga tenshou before that...well, atleast use and control it. He blasted it once by fluke, and it was stated that in that time, he learned to use it at will. As well, it wouldn't be...accurate to say that he didn't pick up some fighting skills after sparring with his zanpakuto's physical form for 3 days.

In addition, the notion that Ichigo could take down Byakuya...or even notably harm Byakuya, using only his shikai is...pretty preposterous. We basically witnessed Byakuya own him in his shikai state with only the use of the initial stage of his bankai. To further solidify that (as if it needs any further solidification, lol), there's no way that Ichigo's bankai would put so much strain on his body that his power would drop below shikai level.

Does anyone else think the debate is over? Does anyone else think that it...should be over?

[Malakai]

this one should have been over a long time ago. so is the byakuya and kisuke thread too. no to menton goku vs superman.

[Kzimask]

Byakuya..
Kenpachi may handle some stabbing-there and bleeding-there but Byakuya can overthrow Kenpachi's defence. With his Bankai and Shikai... But I have to say, Kenpachi does have great reiatsu

[The Last Shinigami]

Byakuya no doubt...

Even in Shikkai state Byakuya's Senbonzakura are cherry blossoms used as blades to surround and cut the enemy right? Forigve me if I'm not correct, Ichigo used the getsuga Tenshou to null the attack right? What moves does Zaraki know besides swinging his sword around? I doubt he can block them all like Ichigo could in bankai state...

Zaraki is definately physically stronger than Byakuya not nowhere near as fast, at least I'd assume since Byakuya is a master of the flash step and as fast as Yoruichi ( god of flash) even though she was holding Ichigo we don't know if Byakuya was going his fastest we could tell Yoruichi was she was even shocked at how fast he became. Kenpachi doesn't have the speed to even touch Byakuya...

[Kisuke_Urahara]

Byakuya is far faster than Zaraki, but no where near Yoruichi. She wasn't exactly shocked...she basically faked him out, and created the illusion she had been struck, while she was actually behind him. And then proceeds to state "with that speed, you'll never catch me".

It's not a safe assumption to make, that he can somehow just blast his speed up to the same level of like, the fastest person in soul society.

However, regardless, I think we all know the inevitable outcome of this match-up. Byakuya's faster, stronger, and smarter than Zaraki, and has a pretty good mastery of kidou, which Zaraki doesn't have at all.

So....umm, actually I can't think of anything else to say. Everything's been said.

[The Juice]

I would be seriously surpised if Kenpachi even landed a hit on Byaku. Ichigo defeated Ken w/o bankai. Ichigo had to use bankai to defeat Byaku. Ken was able to take the other two captains bankais because one was simply raw power that kenpachi could match with his own power, and the other removed his senses, so he was able to take the pain and the hits to get ahold of Tousen so he could beat him. Those bankai aren't even in the realm of power that Byaku's has. I don't think that he would even have to use his ban kai before taking Ken. Ken can take his eye patch out all he wants and the bells and anything. Byaku's strength and power are probably below Ken's but not that much lower. And speed is the major advantage in any shinagami fight. And the only two who have higher speed than Byaku are Ichi and Yorichi. lots of Shunpo means Ken loses. It might take some time but Byaku would probably not even take a hit. And releasing his bankai would mean Ken's total defeat.

[Razvan_Asakura]

Byakuya would kill Kenpachi with a single blow of his senbonzakura...:)
ken-chan is 2 slow for byakuya...he will got pwned ><

[M@F]

kenpachi...

[Shinsou Dit]

kenpachi. Although byakuya is way faster, i doubt hitting kenpachi a few times with senbonzakura would deal him serious damage, at least that's what i think anyway.

[Mayuri]

Byakuya is far faster than Zaraki, but no where near Yoruichi. She wasn't exactly shocked...she basically faked him out, and created the illusion she had been struck, while she was actually behind him. And then proceeds to state "with that speed, you'll never catch me".It's not a safe assumption to make, that he can somehow just blast his speed up to the same level of like, the fastest person in soul society.However, regardless, I think we all know the inevitable outcome of this match-up. Byakuya's faster, stronger, and smarter than Zaraki, and has a pretty good mastery of kidou, which Zaraki doesn't have at all.So....umm, actually I can't think of anything else to say. Everything's been said.

Logic is mad tech. <3

I agree with Kisuke_Urahara. Zaraki is a lunatic x) BanKai vs. lack of BanKai makes this a pretty easy decision.

[Batman2o4]

Byakuya would demolish Kenpachi.
I love Kenpachi a lot more then Byakuya as a character but he just ain't got the skills.

[oblivion]

Ichigo don't give a shit about byakuya anymore......
he never feared byakuya, not even before he got bankai,
and now he views him as his equal. but fears the shit of kenpachi

[oblivion]

Byakuya's bankai would not even scratch kenpachi. Kenpachi does have the most riatsu in soul society right now...

[Soukatsu]

that reiatsu thing won`t help him here..
byakuya would have won no matter what...Zaraki has to achive bankai to even scratch Byakuya..

[Rabbid]

yeh thats true soukatsu (rep up for you ;) without bankai kenpachi couldnt win but he'd still fight evenly with him

[Yadomaru]

This, as see it, is a classic example of Skill versus Brute Strength.
And frankly resistant though Kenpachi is, and as much as I prefer him over Byakuya, I'd say the odds are somewhat tilted in Byakuya's favor, though It frankly could go either way depending on how quickly and how much Ken-chan manages to piss Byakuya off.

[Rabbid]

and i can't see byakuya getting pissed off Lol he's always calm, perhaps if he killed rukia lol

[DarkRed]

zaraki would win hands down

[constant dreamer]

zaraki would get lickens from Byakuya

[kuuru-kuuru]

byakuya. @__@
it's obvious.

his shikai can block kenpachi as many has said.
i agree with the last shinigami.
ken's speed is definatly NO MATCH for bya-bya.
and i agree with amaterasu.
bya-bya is total, extreme, skilled textbook fighter while ken can only run and slice. i don't think bya-bya will even have to use bankai to beat ken.
ichi and bya-bya almost have the same reiatsu and power and stuff too.
and ichi has gotten waay stronger after the soul society saving rukia thing. then bya-bya couldn't possibly let his power shed away either. he even fought with kariya in the manga and didn't get knocked out like ichi when he tried fighting kariya the first time. [watch and read anime+manga. i know. im a total baleech fareek. > < ]
so then ken can't possibly beat bya-bya.

the end.

[RedIce]

Byakuya of course

[night_wolf_in]

zaraki, he took two captains shikai hits (that big dog and tousen) n he was standing laughing. so zaraki will win, even if byakuya goes into the 3rd release, then he will lose for sure.

[1kaz16]

Kenpachi would get owned no questions asked

[Zei]

wont kno until we see it

[Fouster]

Zaraki did take Tosen's Crimson Flying Locusts , then with his fight with Ichinose Maki he did take his Nijigasumi's flying light blades by just using his reiatsu. They are both Captain level for a reason and saying one would own the other one makes no sense. It would be a good fight indeed.

[Immortelle]

Byakuya will own Kenpachi, definately.

[strawberry391]

kenpachi took on two captains and won how could he lose such a fight

[Ryu-loneflower]

because byakuya isnt like the other two captains..
they dont compare to him..

[strawberry391]

well he still held them back with their bankais and all

[Ryu-loneflower]

well yeah i guess thats true...
kenpachi would be able to last long in a difficult fight,
though i still think he wouldnt win against byakuya..

[RedIce]

I don't think Kenpachi can handle Byakuya's bankai

[1kaz16]

Kenpachi Couldn't even handle byakuya's shikai muchless bankai that would be a total overkill, it would be like shooting an unarmed person 26 times

[RICKisBOSS]

Well, Renji survived a battle with Byakuya and techinally, Ganju did as well. With everyone having different abilities in the Bleach World, its kind of hard to say who is stronger than who.

I mean Renji was using Byakuya's favorite word (I mean Byakuya says 'Bankai' at least 400 times in the Soul Society Arc haha) and he was still defeated. I'd have to say Byakuya would be the winner either way. Why? It's the level..like a baboon trying to reach the moon, blah blah..

The Soul Society Arc was hyped up for Ichigo to (finally) fight Byakuya. Kenpachi and the others were great opponents but in all honesty without knowing the real villian of that arc, everyone was waiting on that fight..
-Rick

[The Nog]

It's absurd to say that either one would own the other.
Kenpachi survived against Tousen and Doghead, Byakuya fought Ichigo way longer then Kenpachi and only lost because of Hollow Ichigo's mad little rampage.
Kenpachi is a tough MF, and Byakuya had Shikai and Bankai with 3 stages.
Their battle would be to complex and hard to just take sides since no-one could possibly know how it would go. And Kenpachi did survive Tousen's Bankai, so Byakuya's wouldnt be an instant kill.
I say it's impossible to know without it ever happening.

[Siindre]

Zaraki would be no match for Byakuya

[aldonun]

byakuya will take that all the way...:kenpachi: sorry again kenny (thats twice i voted against him). kennys just to out matched... but i think byakuya might have to use his banki for this one but he'll still take it

[~Tnuttz~]

I think it could be a close match. But my vote is for byakuya.

[Random]

Senbonzakura FTW. Senbonzakura will cut Zaraki to oblivion. and Zaraki already got beaten by Shikai ichigo, ichigo had to go Bankai to beat Byakuya.

[MaNgA_ReAdEr]

Both are exceptionally strong captains, but Byakuya is far stronger. He's probably one of the few captains who has a chance against Aizen. Mind you, if Kenpachi had a ban kai he'd have a chance to fight him and live.

Yeah ichigo had to use Bankai against Byakuya, so its obvious that Byakuya would win against Kenpachi, though i like Kenpachi better, i still have to admit that Byakuya is stronger

[Ryuksgelus]

I think it could be a close match. But my vote is for byakuya.

Yeah it would be close.

Though Byakuya overall skills give him the edge against Zaraki, unlike Shikai Ichigo his powers are more of a disadvantage against somebody like Zaraki(big and sturdy). Senbonsakura would do almost squat to Zaraki since the cloud of shards couldn't even decimate little Ichigo&Renji like Byakuya thought it should and Senkai is just a better version of Tousen's shikai at best.

Byakuya vs. Zaraki is just another rare case of where the equation "Character A>Character B>Character C", doesn't work, much like Tousen<Zaraki<Ichigo doesn't really work.

Senbonsakura isn't the determining factor against Zaraki. Fight between the two would come down to a normal sword fight, where Byakuya would win because of his greater speed and only slightly less power. Unless we're talking White Imperial sword which would cut through Zaraki like butter.

[lokoman]

three stages of bankai r more than enough to take zaraki down

[usuke]

Byakuya-sama rules~ Kenpachi can't win~

[Malchonn]

No diss to Byakuya, because I do think he may win, but didn't Kenpachi defeat Tousen's Bankai just but taken hits? I think his reiatsu would protect him from Byakuya's shikai for sure, not a scratch. But yes Byakuya would probably win.

[masahiro_24]

wow talk about totaly one sided minds arguing with eachother, give them both credit but as for wuts not fanfiction and is infact fact zaraki only fights the strongest and if he hadent faced byakuya already im sure he knows the extent of byakuyas strength inst enough to defeat him he's fought and won more fights than anyone else in the show and can read another fighters potential better than anyone else so i think byakuya is not strong enuff for him and one more thing zaraki took on tousen and that other captain at the same time with ease byakuya is so overrated and from what i remeber as well ichigo lost that battle imo becuz zaraki was still standing

[ravz]

Byakuya would own Kenpachi. It's kinda obvious

[Spartan3055]

Zaraki has way more potential than byakuya. If zaraki had shakai he would probly win.

[gunslingerjoe3]

this would be one hell of a fight... i might've even seen byakuya's white emperor bankai... dont know if he can keep up with kenpachi's love for fighting... with the way he is, he doesnt need shikai or even bankai but if he had these two, byakuya would be no match for kenpachi... it would be one of the greatest fights ever...

[CloudStrife]

byakuya would win

[vibe_city]

actually there is a thread similar to this but it's okay since the previous two threads similar to this are closed

to answer the question I should say byakuya

[Lnrd]

As of the captains coming to HM. If Zaraki has a bankai he's will defenitely be stronger than Byakuya.

[TheExile]

Byakuya would win at first but i think that zaraki would eventually figure him out and counter-attack him. Would be a very good fight

[seanjohn6742]

byakuya

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

Byakuya should win but then again until we see the Noitora vs kenpachi fight its hard to say

['Lex The Grey]

Ganju did say in the episode where Byakuya owned him good that the 6th captain's reiatsu was much higher than Kenpachi's.

[Da_Hustla07]

That's a tough decision because even though Kenpachi doesn't know bankai, he can get cut thousands of times and just laugh like he's getting tickled but byakuya would probably murder him if he used his bankai form to fight him.

[TW501]

I think that Kenpachi has more pure power, but as he has no way of blocking senbonzakura, Byakuya would likely win.

[Rob Lucci]

Bankai Kenpachi pwns...But I guess Byakuya can win...:,(

[Sakujo]

Kenpachi would slice through his weak petals and jump for the meal, Byakuya.

[X-soldier]

I think kenpachi, simply because of byakuyas type of attack. those flower petals will bearly leave scratches on Kenpachi. So i see it as something like Kenpachi powering threw Byakuyas while Byakuya flash steps away, Byakuya may also throw in some kido witch will proubably hurt kenpachi a good bit making it a bit of a more even fight. but if he can stay on his feet (and he can take alot of punishment so i think he will for a while) eventully Kenpachi will realese his eye patch witch will proubably make him alot fast, we really dont know the full extent of his power as for as speed and all that goes when he takes it off. Anyway, Kenpachi will get hits off on Byakuya a little at a time untill Byakuya is weakened enough for Kenpachi to go in for the finishing blow.

thinking about the fights on terms of "well ichigo beat him then had to train to beat byakuya" doesnt count. Ichigo and Byakuya are two difrent kinds of fighters with two difrent sets of strengths and weaknesess. a move that will finish ichigo off wont nesessarily finish kenpachi off.

[jake bonzo]

Due to Kubo's recent lack of logic, I honestly cannot tell who would win this battle. Maybe Senbonsakura would fuck up Kenpachi, or maybe Kenpachi would take all those petals on his body, laugh it off, and lunge in on Byakuya with eyepatch removed.

[1337pRoToSs]

Originally, I would've said Byakuya, without a doubt, as Ichigo needed Bankai to beat him, while he beat Kenpachi with Shikai. It's also 'anime physics' that the subsequent 'villain' is always stronger than the one that preceded him.

But now, out of nowhere, Kenpachi gets a massive powerup in the form of his kendo, and can suddenly dance with the best of them, opponents that even Vaizard Ichigo can't beat. I think it's safe to assume Byakuya got a similar powerup, but I honest don't know anymore.

But simply because I like Byakuya more, I'm going with him. Kenpachi may be able to take more hits than Byakuya, but Byakuya is significantly faster. The battle would unfold by the two trading melee blows, when Kenpachi decides to take off his eyepatch, and Byakuya matching that by going Bankai. Byakuya would slice at Kenpachi from every conceivable angle, while he would just charge straight through the cloud of blades. But as soon as Kenpachi even presented himself as a threat, Byakuya would Shunpo away, then rinse and repeat. It may take several dozen times, but Kenpachi will eventually go down. Even *if* he doesn't, Byakuya still has 2 more forms of Bankai, a huge arsenal of Kidou, and Utsusemi (uber-shunpo) to fall back on, and more than enough speed to break through Kenpachi's guard. Shukei: Hakuteiken could probably match Kenpachi's kendo blasts in attack power, but that's assuming Byakuya doesn't simply Shunpo past it and go straight for Kenpachi.

[Ares050]

byakuya

[dixieboy]

Did this have to be revived?

Anyway,

Nnoitara being beat was a matter of matchups

IMO Kenpachi would've lost to Zommari, and Byaks would've lost to Nnoitara

Seeing as Nnoitara's "thing" was his hierro, he just met a guy with so much reiatsu that it hardly mattered

Byaks met a guy who was weak to his bankai

that's it

So i still say byakuya wins

[Ares050]

the whole thing is so messed up remember when ichigo used his zan's power and fought equally with the sheer spiritual peer of zaraki if he could have done that he could fight up to the 4th espada np

[dixieboy]

He tied with Kenpachi doing that

so implying that is like saying kenpachi could match Ulqiuorra NP

[1337pRoToSs]

the whole thing is so messed up remember when ichigo used his zan's power and fought equally with the sheer spiritual peer of zaraki if he could have done that he could fight up to the 4th espada np

Don't think that power was stronger than Hollow Ichigo coming out and actually fighting directly for him. That was the power which was required to defeat Byakuya, and Ichigo's victory was only by a hair's width.

And I really disagree about fighting on equal grounds with Ulquiorra even with Zangetsu's power, seeing as how Vaizard Ichigo was so easily destroyed by unreleased Ulquiorra.

[Ares050]

he didnt destroy it if safe 2 say while in hollow form he has almost unlimited spiritual power huh?

[1337pRoToSs]

By destroy I meant getting horribly beaten. Which did indeed happen. Ichigo went all out with super-speed and Kuroi Getsugas, but Ulquiorra just blocked it all with his hands, shot a Cero, and punched a hole through Ichigo's chest. He didn't even need to *draw* his Zanpakutou.

[Ares050]

yeah answer this if he could hold his form for as long as the other viazards would he win?

[Sessou]

Ken-chan isn't the type to play with flowers. Yachiru on the other hand....

It would be interesting to see Kenpachi face off against Byakuya, only because of the fact that Kenpachi would have to think about his next move as opposed to just slashing away at him. A countless number of blades going up against Kenpachi however, would be like a bunch of throwing stars or, much like Tousen's Benihiko. It wouldn't have that big of an affect on Kenpachi, other than make him think that Byakuya is being quite girlie with the flowers slashing away at him. I don't think some of you give Ken-chan any kind of credit as far as his speed is concern. He seems quite adapt at moving from place to place on a whim. We know he doesn't have shunpo, but he obviously has something going on that allows him to move from one place to another almost instantly, and I'm not refering to his ability to run either.

[Ares050]

i was high for those episodes ur talkin about i think lol

[1337pRoToSs]

yeah answer this if he could hold his form for as long as the other viazards would he win?

With his current power levels, even if he could hold his mask as long as the other Vaizards, he'd still lose to Ulquiorra, as an increased duration doesn't warrant an offensive power increase. Look, his Getsuga Tenshous did literally nothing to Ulquiorra, who deflected them all with his bare hands. Ulquiorra didn't even have to draw his sword to beat Ichigo. Ichigo can keep doing GT's if he could hold his mask longer, but there isn't much of a difference between 10 papercuts and 100. If Ulquiorra released, Ichigo would need divine intervention to win.

[dixieboy]

Ken-chan isn't the type to play with flowers. Yachiru on the other hand....

It would be interesting to see Kenpachi face off against Byakuya, only because of the fact that Kenpachi would have to think about his next move as opposed to just slashing away at him. A countless number of blades going up against Kenpachi however, would be like a bunch of throwing stars or, much like Tousen's Benihiko. It wouldn't have that big of an affect on Kenpachi, other than make him think that Byakuya is being quite girlie with the flowers slashing away at him. I don't think some of you give Ken-chan any kind of credit as far as his speed is concern. He seems quite adapt at moving from place to place on a whim. We know he doesn't have shunpo, but he obviously has something going on that allows him to move from one place to another almost instantly, and I'm not refering to his ability to run either.

You actually don't know if he has shunpo or not

i still say that scene in SS where he one instant is on the roof, and the next behind ichigo (Not the illusion created by killing intent/reiatsu) was alot like shunpo, or kenpachi just has amazing speed

And Kenpachi would've lost that fight if tousen has just cut off zarakis head from the beginning :/

[1337pRoToSs]

But to say that Kenpachi's speed is anywhere near Byakuya's is ridiculous. Byakuya is all about speed, while Kenpachi's theme is tanking and massive offense. But I do agree about the part with Tousen. Damn Plotkai.

[dixieboy]

Actually Byakyua is a jack of all trades
He has amazing kidou
Great speed
Great Reiatsu
And can pack quite a punch
Plus his Release can be used both offensive and defensive at same time

[1337pRoToSs]

His most specialized field is still speed. His attack power can't match Kenpachi, nor can his Reiatsu. His Kidou probably can't match Aizen's, but then again, nobody can match Aizen.

[Ares050]

speed long can he shunpo though zaraki is inhuman endurance pyshco

[zangetsuclan]

id say byakuya but then again kenpachi did beat 2 captains without even removing his eye patch so wouldnt count him out just yet

[VanquishedAngel]

A very interesting fight indeed... Initially there is that scene with Gin pulling Kenpachi away but that was just for humor and to establish Byaks as the one to beat in the SS arc...

I don't know Kenpachi, seems to have been holding back in the SS arc... I mean with the two handed kenpo swat and all... But seriously... I am going to with the intangible here. I am not convinced that senbonzakura would have as much of an effect as we think. All attacks are soul pressure based. Think of it in terms of density.. Kenpachi has more soul pressure and Byaks attack would have to be able to penetrate him.. Just ask this question. If Byaks was the captain that Kenpachi had to face to become captain and join SS would it have made a difference?

Keeping my mind open but I am leaning towards Kenpachi...

[dixieboy]

id say byakuya but then again kenpachi did beat 2 captains without even removing his eye patch so wouldnt count him out just yet

He never beat two

go reread the chapters

he beat tousen

Komamura hit him once

Tousen goes bankai and fights kenpachi (Who kenpachi only defeated because Tousen was an idiot)

Kenpachi tries to finish off tousen but is stopped by komamura who releases

AND THEN THE FIGHTS STOPS

[densetsu_eikyou]

This was probably stated before but Yurichi states Byackuya is stronger than Zaraki.

[Oppressor]

If Byakuya have anything near a brain he can't loose really. Having the speed and range there is nothing that Kenpachi can do no matter his strenght or toughness. But we all know that if it was to happen that they would clash swords even if there was better methods to win...

[4GeTmE]

This was probably stated before but Yurichi states Byackuya is stronger than Zaraki.

I said it before and i'll say it again.NO ONE can truly really KNOW another persons strengh(especially if they are captain class).Yurichi said that cuz she DINT know that zaraki can remove that damm eyepatch and use KENDO to increase his strengh,speed,etc.etc.BACK to the topic,i think zaraki will win Byakuya.WHy?cuz zaraki has inhuman endurance.so he can surely take byakuyas bankai head on.And besides,senbonsakura isnt surely 100% gonna hit zaraki.He can dodge it or deflect it with his reatsu.EVEN if it hits him,hes not gonna fall down.He'll jus smile and shrug like nothing happened.And zaraki is not slow.EVen without shunpo,hes as fast as those who hav shunpo.he can definitely cut byakuya and KO him.PLUS,zaraki is an expert in combat.he can calm down and think ways to defeat his enemies IF he even nids to.AND WTH is with this talk about Ichigo fought harder with byakuya compared to zaraki?Byakuya used 90%(if not 100%)when he fought with byakuya.And zaraki only used about 70% AT MOST.just think about it,zaraki had no sense when he fought with Ichigo.He didnt dodge ichigos attacks.he dint killed ichigo when he could hav.he dint unleashed the full might of his power at the beginning.he dint used his KENDO techniques.AND he DID NOT calm down and think of a plan to defeat ichigo.he didnt think he needed to think of a plan to defeat ichigo not like when he was fighting against Tousen and Nnoitra.With ALL those disadvantages he had he still beat ichigo to the ground.AND he dint lose to ichigo.if they were left alone there Ichigo would die first no doubt.Ichigo got sliced almost in half by zaraki while zaraki onli got chopped in the shoulder.so you see,Zaraki would most definitely pawn byakuya at full power(if he even needs to use full power).

[☆Sousuke☆]

^ the problem is...at some point Byakuya would start attacking Zaraki from
the distance and Zaraki has no long range attacks..he'll be screwed..

that leaves me to believe that a heavily injured Byakuya (due to the few
times Zaraki would be able to cut him) would win at the end

[outlawstar84]

Kenpachi over Byakuya Byakuya has speed but does he have the endurance to out last Kenpachi?

[☆Sousuke☆]

^ it depends...if they fight in a small area Kenpachi may have the upper hand
but if the area is big enough ...then Byakuya could just keep his distance and
use long range attacks, and since Zaraki has none...he'll be screwed..

[dixieboy]

He actually did two slash that damages the surroundings, but nonetheless

i can't see zaraki winning

Small area: Senbonzakura kageyoshi = Filling up the entire area with razor sharp blades...

Large area: Keep distance and keep slashing zaraki

[densetsu_eikyou]

I said it before and i'll say it again.NO ONE can truly really KNOW another persons strengh(especially if they are captain class).Yurichi said that cuz she DINT know that zaraki can remove that damm eyepatch and use KENDO to increase his strengh,speed,etc.etc.
And she doesn't know this how? Last i checked Yurichi was a captain at one time (possibly, when zaraki got there possibly before) And she can sense reitsu. She sensed all of zaraki's in his fight against Ichigo and concluded (or already knew) Zaraki was not as strong as Byakuya.

BACK to the topic,i think zaraki will win Byakuya.WHy?cuz zaraki has inhuman endurance.so he can surely take byakuyas bankai head on.And besides,senbonsakura isnt surely 100% gonna hit zaraki.He can dodge it or deflect it with his reatsu.EVEN if it hits him,hes not gonna fall down.He would not dodge anything both b/c the bankai was to fast and second be/c thats the way he fights. As for his reitsu blocking, that works for weak (relative to him) attacks. This is a bankai its going to cut him. Hell Tousen cut him in shikai.

He'll jus smile and shrug like nothing happened.And zaraki is not slow.EVen without shunpo,hes as fast as those who hav shunpo.he can definitely cut byakuya and KO him. That he can catch Byakuya has been shown no where.

PLUS,zaraki is an expert in combat. as is every captain

he can calm down and think ways to defeat his enemies IF he even nids to.AND WTH is with this talk about Ichigo fought harder with byakuya compared to zaraki?Byakuya used 90%(if not 100%)when he fought with byakuya.And zaraki only used about 70% AT MOST.just think about it,zaraki had no sense when he fought with Ichigo.He didnt dodge ichigos attacks.he dint killed ichigo when he could hav.he dint unleashed the full might of his power at the beginning.he dint used his KENDO techniques.AND he DID NOT calm down and think of a plan to defeat ichigo.he didnt think he needed to think of a plan to defeat ichigo not like when he was fighting against Tousen and Nnoitra.With ALL those disadvantages he had he still beat ichigo to the ground.AND he dint lose to ichigo.if they were left alone there Ichigo would die first no doubt.Ichigo got sliced almost in half by zaraki while zaraki onli got chopped in the shoulder.so you see,Zaraki would most definitely pawn byakuya at full power(if he even needs to use full power). To beat Noi zaraki didn't need to think and analyze anything. All he needed to do was swing his sword. Same with Ichigo. Zaraki also went all out on Ichigo. He didn't use both hands b/c Kt had not thought of this "power-up" yet and even if he did, Zaraki swung differently against Ichigo than against Noi. Swinging sideways with two hands doesn't make your swing faster or stronger like it does when you swing from above your head. All your percentages are random things you made up. And it was stated that Ichigo and Zaraki tied not one beat the other down. After the tie Ichigo went on to get stronger to fight someone else. Guess who

[wouter]

Byakuya will pwn Kenpachi.., its not that Ken-chan is weak...., just Byakuya is way more skilled and powerfull....Zaraki would be pretty much dead after a hit from Senbonzakura......
Byakuya>>>>>kenpachi.....

qft

[1337pRoToSs]

id say byakuya but then again kenpachi did beat 2 captains without even removing his eye patch so wouldnt count him out just yet

Kenpachi beat ONE Captain. If Tousen went straight for the kill from the start, giving Kenpachi no time to adapt and counter, Kenpachi would've lost. You can thank Anime physics and Plotkai for that one. As for Komamura, they never fought. Komamura pulled out a 50-story Bankai, but retreated as soon as he felt Yamamoto's Reiatsu. So no, Kenpachi didn't beat Komamura, who I personally think would've won anyway.

For those of you that think Kenpachi can charge straight through Senbonzakura Kageyoshi and remove Byakuya's head, let me ask you this: How the hell can he hit Byakuya if Byakuya can Shunpo away the moment Kenpachi got inside melee range. And even IF SK can't harm Kenpachi, Byakuya still has Senkei to fall back on. And he's just about on par with Ichigo's speed, MUCH faster than Kenpachi. His sword in Senkei can most definitely cut Kenpachi, if not kill him, as Tousen can cut Kenpachi with a normal Zanpakutou. Byakuya has a stronger Reiatsu and more offensive power than Tousen.

Byakuya also has a huge arsenal of Kidou to assist him in his victory. With a few careful placements of Kidou, like the Six Rods Light Prison, he can easily tip the fight in his favor. Let's assume for a moment that Kenpachi can survive through Senkei, getting stabbed by ten swords coming from all directions, and an onslaught of Kidou-assisted attacks. He'll still have to face Shukei Hakuteiken. This is the attack that only Bankai Ichigo, with 10x as much Reiatsu as Shikai (when he faced Ken), could beat, and he focused all of his remaining strength into it. Kenpachi can try to counter it with a Kendo blast, but, again, Byakuya is *that* much faster, and can easily Shunpo away and up within striking range of Kenpachi. Again, this assumes he can survive the rinse-and-repeat rape of normal SK/Goukei and Senkei, where Byakuya can call down multiple swords at once to pierce Kenpachi or pin him in place like he did to Ichigo.

In the end, Byakuya is the clear victor, as his 'technical' skill far surpasses Kenpachi, who just rushes in blindly and blasts Reiatsu everywhere. Byakuya is not one to be defeated by such tactics, as he is ridiculously fast, versatile, and can pack quite a punch with all the 3/4 forms of his Bankai. Byakuya 6/10.

[4GeTmE]

ZZZ jus because she was once a captain doesnt mean she knows Zaraki's true power.If every captain knew each others power then explain why didnt ANY of the other captains know what Aizen was capable of?And you said she can sense reitsu.So that means she can determine a persons strenght jus by sensing reitsu?If thats the case Zaraki's reitsu is clearly much stronger than that of Byakuya.And yet you said Byakuya is stronger than Zaraki.WTH?
And you said he couldnt dodge his senbonsakura.Zaraki is fast even without Shunpo.He can dodge Tousens attacks just by using his sense of touch and your saying he cant DODGE those blades?He might not dodge them all but he would surely dodge enough of them to avoid getting killed.And yea it would take alot more than senbonsakura to take him down.Although Senbonsakura is great in numbers but they are jus tiny pieces of blades.Do u seriously think PIECES of blades can harm him?Yea Tousen was able to stab Zaraki but of course he can he is a captain isnt he?He put alot of effort into that stab using his zanpaktou.So of course he can cut him.But jus think,Senbonsakura are tiny pieces of blades,they are not swords.Senbonsakura is great in numbers but is actually pretty weak for they do not deal as much damage compared to a sword.So i don think those blades can even harm Zaraki cuz they are jus tiny pieces of blades.And besides Zaraki's reitsu is much higher than Byakuya's.He can just keep chasing Byakuya(who would be running)until Byakuya has no more strengh left.Then he KOs him.Unless ur tellin me that Byakuya has more stamina than Zaraki.(highly unlikely)
Oh yeah,Zaraki didnt hav to think or devise a plan to defeat Noi?I suggest u reread the manga before posting next time.Oh do you even know why Zaraki used both hands?To increase his strengh and speed of his swing.If he had used both hands against Ichigo,Ichigo would already be dead.So double the strengh and speed doesnt matter huh?
And man his fight against Ichigo was not a freaking tie.He did not used his full power while Ichigo gave it his best.U CALL that a tie?
Ichigo wouldnt even have the chance to fight Byakuya if Zaraki had used his full power.And yeah need i remind u that Byakuya gave it his all(if not less)when he fought with Ichigo?

[4GeTmE]

Zaraki is fast.He is slower than Byakuya and Bankai Ichigo but not much.Yeah i know Byakuya can shunpo away when Zaraki comes close to him but Zaraki can just chase him.Shunpo is more wearing than running.Therefore Byakuya would get more and more tired as he tries to keep away from Zaraki.Zaraki in the end would finnish the worn out Byakuya with 1 hit.I know Byakuya's swords in Senkai are stronger than the senbonsakura blades but still i doubt they could harm Zaraki with his eye patch removed.Dont forget those swords are still made of Senbonsakura.We have seen Hollow Ichigo and Renji shattering those swords before.Byakuya's Bankai separates his zanpaktou into great numbers.So this causes the blades or swords to be weaker.Altough they are swords but they are still not as powerfull or durable as the original.So they are easy to be broken.Im sure that if Zaraki powers up his reitsu he can destroy Byakuya's Senkei and i doubt he even needs to do that cuz Byakuya's swords probably cant harm him anyway.

[Lnrd]

Kenpachi over Byakuya Byakuya has speed but does he have the endurance to out last Kenpachi?

No, he doesn't have stamina at all.

[1337pRoToSs]

ZZZ jus because she was once a captain doesnt mean she knows Zaraki's true power.If every captain knew each others power then explain why didnt ANY of the other captains know what Aizen was capable of?And you said she can sense reitsu.So that means she can determine a persons strenght jus by sensing reitsu?If thats the case Zaraki's reitsu is clearly much stronger than that of Byakuya.And yet you said Byakuya is stronger than Zaraki.WTH?
And you said he couldnt dodge his senbonsakura.Zaraki is fast even without Shunpo.He can dodge Tousens attacks just by using his sense of touch and your saying he cant DODGE those blades?He might not dodge them all but he would surely dodge enough of them to avoid getting killed.And yea it would take alot more than senbonsakura to take him down.Although Senbonsakura is great in numbers but they are jus tiny pieces of blades.Do u seriously think PIECES of blades can harm him?Yea Tousen was able to stab Zaraki but of course he can he is a captain isnt he?He put alot of effort into that stab using his zanpaktou.So of course he can cut him.But jus think,Senbonsakura are tiny pieces of blades,they are not swords.Senbonsakura is great in numbers but is actually pretty weak for they do not deal as much damage compared to a sword.So i don think those blades can even harm Zaraki cuz they are jus tiny pieces of blades.And besides Zaraki's reitsu is much higher than Byakuya's.He can just keep chasing Byakuya(who would be running)until Byakuya has no more strengh left.Then he KOs him.Unless ur tellin me that Byakuya has more stamina than Zaraki.(highly unlikely)
Oh yeah,Zaraki didnt hav to think or devise a plan to defeat Noi?I suggest u reread the manga before posting next time.Oh do you even know why Zaraki used both hands?To increase his strengh and speed of his swing.If he had used both hands against Ichigo,Ichigo would already be dead.So double the strengh and speed doesnt matter huh?
And man his fight against Ichigo was not a freaking tie.He did not used his full power while Ichigo gave it his best.U CALL that a tie?
Ichigo wouldnt even have the chance to fight Byakuya if Zaraki had used his full power.And yeah need i remind u that Byakuya gave it his all(if not less)when he fought with Ichigo?

I somewhat agree with the first part, but Byakuya can very well kill Kenpachi with just normal Kageyoshi. Look, Shikai Tousen, Shikai Ichigo, and Tousen with a normal Zanpakutou could ALL cut Kenpachi very well. Kenpachi easily has more Reiatsu than Tousen, and therefore he can cut, if not kill Kenpachi. 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 5+5 = 10. It doesn't matter what the individual damage is, the end result is the same. A hundred million pieces of swords will eventually equal a Tensa Zangetsu in damage, and Kenpachi isn't inclined to dodge them. Hell, he'll just stand there smiling and take it all until he realizes that he underestimated the pink flower petals, at which point it'll be too late. Also note that you omitted Byakuya's Kidou prowess, as well as the fact that he has 2 more forms of Bankai to fall back on.

Kenpachi may have been able to beat Ichigo if he went Kendo and got 2x the power, but need I remind you ICHIGO ONLY HAD A SHIKAI? If he needed a Bankai to fight Byakuya, which gives him 10x as much power, then who is stronger? Last I checked, 10 is greater than 2.

Byakuya did fight with his all, and was winning until Hollow Ichigo actually came out and fought for Ichigo. Without Hichigo, Ichigo wouldn't have won.

[1337pRoToSs]

Zaraki is fast.He is slower than Byakuya and Bankai Ichigo but not much.Yeah i know Byakuya can shunpo away when Zaraki comes close to him but Zaraki can just chase him.Shunpo is more wearing than running.Therefore Byakuya would get more and more tired as he tries to keep away from Zaraki.Zaraki in the end would finnish the worn out Byakuya with 1 hit.I know Byakuya's swords in Senkai are stronger than the senbonsakura blades but still i doubt they could harm Zaraki with his eye patch removed.Dont forget those swords are still made of Senbonsakura.We have seen Hollow Ichigo and Renji shattering those swords before.Byakuya's Bankai separates his zanpaktou into great numbers.So this causes the blades or swords to be weaker.Altough they are swords but they are still not as powerfull or durable as the original.So they are easy to be broken.Im sure that if Zaraki powers up his reitsu he can destroy Byakuya's Senkei and i doubt he even needs to do that cuz Byakuya's swords probably cant harm him anyway.

Again, Shikai Ichigo could cut Kenpachi w/o eyepatch. You want to say that Byakuya's Bankai is weaker than Ichigo's Shikai? Their difference in Reiatsu is not so big that one can't even cut the other. If Byakuya goes for Kenpachi's arm, that arm is coming off.

What makes you think Byakuya has to run? He can fight on par with Bankai Ichigo, which makes him better than Kenpachi.

[Tank]

Byakuya has speed. That's why Ichigo needed to train to beat him. Anyone who says "Ichigo needed Bankai to beat Byakuya but Shikai to beat Zaraki" is stupid. It's clearly been shown that Zaraki is much stronger than just Shikai Ichigo.

We know Zaraki can go all out and beat the 5th with tons of injuries. And we know that Byakuya can rape the 7th.

But Zaraki just has no way to block Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, he loses. It's just a difference in fighting styles. I see no possible way for Zaraki to win this.

Captains are different from the Espada, you can't gauge them with numbers. They all have different strengths and weaknesses, while the Espada seem to be most powerful. So we don't know whether Byakuya or Zaraki is stronger, but I know that Byakuya would beat Zaraki in a fight.

[Ares050]

yeah zaraki will just keep smiling and getting cut and take off his eye patch try and use brute force 2 break though Byakuya's defenses Byakuya will call him a madman and how even with 1000 years of training he'll never beat him lol

[4GeTmE]

I find it hard to believe that Byakuya's senbonsakura can hurt Zaraki.I know he can get harmed by a full fledged sword but i dont think pieces of small blades can harm him.Think of it this way,if a small piece of blade cant harm him then the other billions of blades cant too eventhough there are many of them.

[GregHouse]

Um... do you forget that byakuya's bankai can also summon thousands of giant swords that would utterly rape kenpachi? Please do tell how kenpachi would stop thousands of razor sharp blades, yet alone thousands of giant swords.

[dixieboy]

A

There is not thousands of them, the number is unknown

B

Those blade shatters, remember? So that point is invalid

C

Despite having used Senbonzakura kageyoshi to create blades before, thats probably not gonna make a difference in attacking strenght

But Byakuya not being able to cut Zaraki is Bullshit, Komamura and Tousen could do it unreleased, so its not like a bankai couldn't do it

[Tank]

Byakuya's petals are nothing but a different form of his zanpakutou. If he can cut Zaraki with a sealed sword, like you said he would, then he would easily kill him with his Bankai, seeing as how there's an uncountable amount of blades. Byakuya could just send one wave of them at Zaraki and, having no way to block them, Zaraki would be carved up.

He wouldn't even need to use his senkai.

[1337pRoToSs]

I find it hard to believe that Byakuya's senbonsakura can hurt Zaraki.I know he can get harmed by a full fledged sword but i dont think pieces of small blades can harm him.Think of it this way,if a small piece of blade cant harm him then the other billions of blades cant too eventhough there are many of them.

So 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 =!= 5 + 5 = 10? Again, Bankais are somewhere around 10-20x as powerful as a sealed Zanpakutou, assuming Shikai is just 2x as powerful as one. If Tousen's Shikai and even normal Zanpakutou can cut Kenpachi, Byakuya's Bankai sure as hell can too. It doesn't matter how the damage is done, whether in installments of a hundred million or two. The end result is the same. In the end, if SK is really as weak as you said it was, then why did Bankai Ichigo have to block it all, and why were Renji and Zommari completely obliterated? SK is definitely stronger than you give it credit for.

[4GeTmE]

Again i have to say that those swords are weak.They are made up of tiny pieces of blades and are not stronger than a sealed zanpaktou.Their combined power is stronger than a sealed zanpaktou but individually they are weak.If one cant cut Zaraki,the others cant too.Ichigo had to defend himself because his defence was not as strong as Zaraki and he couldnt stand pain like Zaraki(the man's freaking insane-.-).And as for Renji,the gap between him and Byakuya was just too far.

[SBowman]

Hoenstly, this fight is much more difficult that it looks.

Regarding the petals for Senbonzakura, Kenpachi's taken Komamura's Tengen and Tosen's Suzumushi one after the other and still stands laughing. Ichigo even took on the brunt of Senbonzakura Kageyoshi and lives to tell the tale, and Kenpachi, as we know, takes many brunts and still doesn't go down.

Now, it's difficult to see who has the upper hand here. One, we're not entirely sure of the full extent of their powers - for example, we've seen in the HM arc that Byakuya's speed allows him to make multiple copies of himself, but Kenpachi also knows kendo, and that using two hands increases his attacking strength dramatically. Kenpachi, technically, can't really cut Byakuya that well since he doesn't possess the speed, but Byakuya can't take Kenpachi down that easily as well.

I would say tie.