Rau la Kruze VS Zechs

[Ajpinecrest2]

Scenario #1: Zechs in Epyon
Scenario #2: Zechs in Tallgeese 3
Both Scenarios Rau in Providence

[Randomperson]

No matter which Scenario, everything from W is too inferior to anything beyond the cheapest UC stuff. Cruuze simply mows over Zechs due to the following facts:

-Providence's power output is approximately over twice as much as Epyon/Talgeese III
-Cruuze being a coordinator has about everything in his genes what the ZERO system offers for Zechs, without sideeffects.
-Talgeese's cannon is worthless, it takes too long to fire. The Heat Rods are the only real "avantage" to speak of... but hold it, CE units have PS armor. Tough luck for Zechs then.
-DRAGOON system can attack from all directions which is strategically more useful than a slow charging cannon (which has to waste time on opening up first) and wips that won't do damage until PS armor wears off.

Piloting abilities/systems are evened out, but the units are imbalanced. You could just as well put Zechs in a Leo.

[Ajpinecrest2]

So by your logic a beam saber does nothing do a machine with PS?

[Randomperson]

I said Heat Rods don't, Beam Sabres do jack eventually but its not like Forbidden doesn't have them (in addition to attacking from all sides with DRAGOONS and having the better MS with body mounted beam armaments and a beam rifle). I told you its just the MS being too uneven (and usually you list DIFFERENCES in a comparison, not stuff that both people have, not that you're gonna ask if they can't dodge by my logic next).

[Ajpinecrest2]

You realize that a beam saber does the same type of damage as a heat rod, and buster's cannon seems pretty effective on PS armor and it isn't a beam as forbidden was unable to reflect it, and if you are trying to tell me that an increadibly low level coordinator is on par with the zero system you are sadly mistaken

[Randomperson]

Heat Rods aren't beam weapons -.-

And PS Armor does not deflect beam attacks. The reason why Crueset didn't deflect buster's cannon (which IS beam) was that it was too strong to be deflected, I mean if they made it totally immune to everything there wouild be no point in fighting... its like Hyaku Shikis Beam coating, it will deflect shots but eventually wears off pretty fast and won't help against a strong beam attack, let alone a beam sabre.

Well first of all Crueset is not that low of a coordinator, he was a failed experiment to make the ultimate coordinator, sure, nowhere near the protagonists but not somewhere way back either. Now what are coordinators? They are enhanced beings that are supposed to calculate extremely fast, their brains are like supercomputers so they will calculate all possible options, risks and outcomes of their actions constantly during battle. The ZERO system externally calculates battlefield data and possible outcomes, which will then infuse the vast amount of data into the pilot's mind. In other words, the EXACT SAME THING except the ZERO system has no SEED mode and forcefully injects the information into the pilot so that he might become insane if not able to stay calm, it is also the case that no matter who is using the system their mind is always cannot take up the raw information perfectly and it will be reduced to urges of certain actions, whereas a coordinator exactly knows what he's doing most of the time. The ZERO system is actually extremely weak in global comparison, just that its unrivaled in its own universe (the only other technology would there be PX system from the sidestory).

Crueset might not be such a good pilot, his "strategy" involves standing still without doing anything while laughing like stupid and babbling stuff about mankind and posing everytime he does something like everything else in SEED. But Zechs is just as weak and his fighting style involves pressing his beam sabre against his opponents and holding still for about 20 seconds in almost every appearance except when its some mobile doll while babbling something about warriors fate and peace and war just like everything else in W. Ever since Haman we know that remaining still when fighting somebody with remote weapons is a very bad idea.

There are 5 factors involving in likliness to victory and defeat:

1.) Pilot quality

Example: When Quattro beat Heero in his old Red Zaku. The Zaku is both weaker as MS in general and does not have any notable weaponry advantage against Wingzero, not to mention lacking a ZERO system. Heero also had the moment of surprise on his side. But the pilot's skill difference (and char being a NT, though not a very strong one) was finally enough to compensate.

In our case: Crueset's and Zechs are not that far away from eachother skillwise imo, while Crueset is a Coordinator, Zechs has the ZERO system to even it out, the remaining piloting skill is almost the same, unless some fangeek who heavily sides with one of them starts blabbering about "This guy would so own because ZERO system/Coordinator ability is too awesome".

2.) Tactical Options

Example: Haman defeating Quattro, it is questionable which of them is the better pilot (even if one would be better, it wouldn't be much of a difference), their MS capabilities aren't that a world of difference either, but the Quebelley had funnels finally leading to Haman's victory.

In our case: Zechs has a Heat Rod and his cannon, while we can forget the cannon just like Quattro could forget his Mega Buster Launcher in a battle of aces. Forbidden on the other hand, has PS Armor to temporarily shield from physical attacks, Geschmeidig Panzer to hold some beam attacks (well not that Zechs uses a lot of them except for the sabre), and DRAGOONs as remote controlled weapons, the result is that Crueset has an advantage with his DRAGOONs.

3.) Sheer MS power

Example: Amuro wins against Ramba Ral. Ramba was to that time much more experienced than Amuro and his gouf had more strategic options due to the heat rod, but Amuro finally won because his Gundam was still way ahead of the gouf in sheer power.

In our case: Forbidden's power output is above double as much as any gundam from W, clear advantage for Crueset.

4.) Terrain/Plot/Moment of surprise:

Example: Shiro's final battle against Norris. Norris had everything over Shiro and was finishing him off, that was when Shiro ripped an arm out of his own gundam and counterattacked with it as weapon while shouting that he will survive to meet Aina, upon hearing Aina's name Norris was distracted and finally didn't kill Shiro because he wanted Aina to lead a happy life.

In our case: Well we're leaving that out I guess.

5.) Complete lack of logic

Example: Master Asia does all 5 Gundam Wingers, being able to "warp" around the complete projectlie screen of heavyarms with aftervision, outmeleeing Wufei, Quatre and Duo's simultanious attack and then blocking the Twin Buster Rifle with one hand. Characters like Master Asia who simply are depicted uber for no good reason are not likely to lose for any reason other than plotline or another character who is depicted even more uber for no good reason.

In our case: I hope we're leaving that out too, but fans of W or SEED are likely to ignore all common sense and state their favorite as victor while giving only a vague reason ("ZERO system is too awesome lololol")

Result: Crueset had clear advantage in 2 cases, Zechs in none. therefore Crueset is more likely to win in the case of a duel.

[Yadomaru]

NITPICK: It's spelled "Rau Le Creuset" - "creuset" is French for "crucible:.
Before I begin, a few things I need to say to Randomperson:
he was a failed experiment to make the ultimate coordinatorNO. Rau LeCreuset was a clone of Al DaFlaga, Mwu LaFlaga's father, and had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Ulen Hibiki's Ultimate Coordinator Project - the failed UC was Canard Pars.
Forbidden on the other hand, has PS Armor to temporarily shield from physical attacks, Geschmeidig Panzer to hold some beam attacks
Fine, that's true, but how exactly does that affect this battle, when Rau is piloting the Providence?

Now, then, first, let's post some basic stats for all three machines:

ZGMF-X13A Providence Gundam
Head height 18.16 meters, overall height unknown; Empty weight unknown, max gross weight 90.68 metric tons
Armor: Phase-shift
Weapons: Beam rifle x1, beam cannon x2, 76mm CIWS x2, 9-barrel DRAGOON remote weapon x3, 2-barrel DRAGOON remote weapon x8, beam saber x1, small shield

OZ-13MS Gundam Epyon
Head height 17.4 meters, overall height unknown; Empty weight 8.5 metric tons, Max gross weight unknown
Armor: Gundanium alloy
Weapons: Heat rod x1, large beam sword x1, small shield x1, ZERO-System

OZ-00MS2B Tallgeese III
Head height 17.4 meters, overall height unknown; Empty weight 8.2 metric tons, Max gross weight unknown
Armor: Titanium alloy
Weapons: Heat rod x1, Mega-Cannon x1, beam saber x2, shield

Next let's break this down by scenario:
SCENARIO ONE: Providence V. Epyon
Here, Zechs is in trouble. In BIG trouble. Why? Because not only does the Providence have him massively outgunned(46 beam guns and the CIWS), but he has to deal with twelve possible attack vectors, 11 of which can and do change very, very rapidly. Now the Epyon's ZERO-esque cockpit system may assist him in evading these attacks, but targeting them is going to come down to Zechs's own skill much more than to the machine. And he has no guns, which makes destroying them very, very dicey - he has to approach them to attack with the saber, and there's no evidence whatsoever that suggests the PS-armored pods would be vulnerable to heat weapons.
Then, there's the Providence itself. Now while Epyon is undoubtedly faster and more maneuverable, both of them have a single beam sword and a small shield, and Rau has the added bonus of that beam rifle - though that may get taken out pretty easily at close-range, given its size. But he can hold his own against Epyon, despite being at a disadvantage because of the ZERO System. BUT, Epyon's sword is connected directly to the generator via an external cable - cut that, and Epyon loses the sword.
Nonetheless, to engage at melee, Zechs has to GET close, and with Rau having more firepower than the average mobile suit team at his disposal, that's gonna be very, very, very difficult.
Rau takes this one.

Scenario Two has Zechs in the Tallgeese III, against the same opponent. Now TG3 has two regular beam sabers and a slightly larger shield to complement the heat rod, as opposed to the tiny shield and single beam sword of the Epyon, and its capabilities in terms of maneuverability and speed are roughly equal to Epyon's - I'd say TG3 is faster but somewhat less maneuverable. Also, he is equipped with a very powerful energy weapon, the TG3's mega cannon. The problem? Well, there's actually two: First, he loses the relative protection of the Epyon's stronger Gundanium alloy, meaning he is more vulnerable to enemy attack, and second, he no longer has the tactical advantage provided to him by the ZERO System, which Tallgeese lacks.
His enemy, meanwhile, has the same overwhelming number of guns at his disposal, and while the mega-cannon gives Zechs a chance at, should he have the time to get a shot off, OHKing Rau, he has to have the time to charge and fire.
Also, as with the Providence's beam rifle, the mega-cannon's enormous size makes it a very vulnerable target, and if the mega-cannon is destroyed, Zechs is deader than Latin.
Rau's advantages don't guarantee him the win in either case, but here, again, I think they're sufficient to overwhelm Zechs.
Rau takes both battles IMO.

[Randomperson]

NITPICK: It's spelled "Rau Le Creuset" - "creuset" is French for "crucible:.
Before I begin, a few things I need to say to Randomperson:
NO. Rau LeCreuset was a clone of Al DaFlaga, Mwu LaFlaga's father, and had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Ulen Hibiki's Ultimate Coordinator Project - the failed UC was Canard Pars.
[...]
Fine, that's true, but how exactly does that affect this battle, when Rau is piloting the Providence?.
I'm still in the process of getting used to Creuset, I still fall back to Cruuze from reading the japanese.

As for the clone thing, yeah thats just me forgetting stuff his enhanced awareness and perception had nothing to do with being coordinator, but he's still different from a natural.

Same goes for calling providence forbidden, I tend to mistaken legend with forbidden namewise (they don't even look the same) and then I mix up legend with providence, fortunately since Zechs isn't using a beam rifle so its not that crucial for the argument.

Another thing I forgot but might've gone unnoticed is that the tallgeese series have no ZERO system XD. That makes Zechs even more helpless in tallgeese.

Now while Epyon is undoubtedly faster and more maneuverable
Really? Can you tell me how that can be made sure of? I mean I also think so but it might just be the animation style, I mean Forbidden (<=lol) stands posing a lot and CE stuff tend to have those slowish accelleration 360 degree brag turns but I think technical data might be different from animation style.

[Hero_Akiar]

it's not really so much the mechs but the type of battle style the pilot prefers. Rau is a one on one man who likes to overpower his enemy using his fire power and at the end of seed, we saw that he constantly backed off of kira if he got into a close combat scenario. Zechs is close combat without a doubt. His old tallgeese had the missile gun thing but he uses the beam sabre so often that he clearly prefers it.

Really we have to think about how kreuze did against kira. He pretty much owned him before getting stabbed then blasted the fuck out of. I'm no seed lover but kira could beat zechs in either the epyon or tallgeese III. The tallgeese III is armed with the buster rifle...useless, don't forget that the providence (I'm calling it legend, faster the type in the dark) is manauvarable enough to fight the freedom in a beam sabre dual and not get damaged. It wouldn't matter anyway, this is what would happen...

zechs in tallgeese III b/c it's better than epyon
[zechs fires buster rifle, rau evades]
zechs : that thing can move like that?
rau : is that rifle the best you have?
[rau unleashes dragoons]
rau : attack!!!!! hit him!!!
[dragoons blast the hell out of the buster rifle, zech abandons it]
zechs: arggg...you'll pay for that, here i come!!!!
[zechs rushes in with beam sabre]
rau : you cannot defeat me!
[rau uses double beam sabre, they lock against eachother]
zechs : what on earth are you, where's that suit from!?
Rau : babbles on about mankind and evolution
[beam sabre seperate and rau shoots off the right arm of tallgeese]
zechs: what!?
Rau : that suit never stood a chance against me...good bye...
[rau uses dragoons and heavily damages the outer armout of tallgeese then shoots his beam rifle through the cockpit]

Btw heat rods don't to anything to MSs with ps armour, gundam 101, even nooobs know that ajbi(blah blah). PS armour is really only useless against energy weapons like beams and high particle cannons etc, but a heat rod is really just a hot sword and i take it that even you know that the swords on ginns (or jinns, whatever) didn't work on the strike let alone the legend.

[Ajpinecrest2]

I am sorry but I disagree with the statement of the heat rods how do beams damage objects? heat that is how so how can we tell that a heat rod isn't the same heat as a beam sabre it has always gone through armor like a beam sabre

[Randomperson]

Heat Rods in W are basically rod versions of a Zaku II Heat Hawk, just stronger maybe. UC/CE ones at least electricute the target but since the W one only has heat (oh and that "saw" structure) it doesn't affect PS Armor. Beams are usually defined in Gundam as high velocity particles shot at the enemy, since they are smaller than a molecular basis and appear as energy, they can only be deflected by beam coated objects (Forbidden's armor, Hyaku Shiki's armor, Crossbone's cloak etc.) or diffusing particles in the area (Anti Beam depth charges, beam chaff launchers, Minovsky particles).

The reason why PS armor "cannot block beams is that it works as an energy barrier around the unit which" theoretically blocks beams too (at least tries), but these can interfere with the energy of the PS armor and therefore cause the PS armor to malfunctionweaken down locally... sorta in that direction. That also explains why Heine's Electricity-based Heat Rod has an effect. Heat based stuff have no effect because PS armor is also built to block heat, so even weakly armored units can enter the atmosphere if they have it.

W Heat rods=>Heat based=>Blocked properlly by PS armor. "properly" blocked attacks have no effect on PS armored areas except for some energy drain. It will be powered down eventually after enough hits but I doubt Zechs has the time to whack providence like 100 times to power it down (and Zechs wouldn't be that stupid to actually try after noticing it)

[Hero_Akiar]

I don't know if this is what the other guy thinks but it could be a suppose.

Some think that the rifle is in fact an engine which dramatically heats up a very narrow but far area of air to the point that it changes colour. The increasing change of colour is what makes it look like a moving light/beam. The incredible heat generated by this cinders a hole in a MS or whatever the target may be BUT the size of the engine is way bigger than a beam rifle or sabre and would morelikely be on a ship or as a launcher the size of the MS carried on its back. This is most proberbly used as a high particle cannon which makes sense. I doubt it, i think it's just energy being shot in a linear direction.

PS armour doesn't negate beams. Beam rifles don't get negated because a beam doesn't only emit heat but light, sound and other types making a solid armour for it pretty much impossible. The only thing which stops beams is really another one neutralising it or it being deflected and not negated by a brightly coated energy armour which can stop most of the types of energy a beam emits.

Back to the story, a heated rod does nothing. A hot rod hitting something harder than it and trying to melt it would work, but the PS armour is besically heat resistant so it's like trying to smash titanium with a steel rod, the rod will snap off and the titanium wouldn't even be dented but the heat resistance will run out and the armour will become weak enough for the heat rod to smoulder off layers like an extremely slow beam sabre.

[Ajpinecrest2]

k I guess that the heat rods will be ineffective but if epyone is able to dodge the dragoons (which in my oppinon should be possible) and a close combat battle engages epyon would surely win as he need 1 strike to take out providence while providence needs about 50 to break gundanium (basing off of when heavyarms took constant hits from a beam sabre coming from tallgeese)

[Randomperson]

Ha, you wish! Wrong mecha anime, Gundanium is not Ultra Alloy New Z rofl.

Gundanium Alloy is just an excuse for the gundams in W not to be destroyed by Leos, though even the Serpents in the movie were able to severely damage Wing Gundam Zero with *normal* bullets while it was worn out enough.

If I guessed the scene you meant with your example, it was when Heero was piloting Heavyarms and faced Zechs, they fought with sabres after Heero removes an arm, (Heero was wounded on that side). During the encounter Zechs starts to dominate and consecutively slashes heavyarms across its shoulders and then abdomen, being parts of the torso and heavyarms stayed near unharmed, Heero's counterattack was a stab but it merely strafed Tallgeese, upon which Zechs continues whacking it back and forth with his sabre, though Heero was backing off. The lack of visible damage on the Gundam is mainly because Zechs was using Tallgeese I which was equivalent to a Leo in close combat damaging power (however, being much faster than a Leo gives it a clear edge). Alternatively, this was possibly simply plot armor beyond all logic (used VERY often in W and SEED as blatant excuse) as the gundams proved to be more vulnerable throughout the series.

Gundanium does not hold higher quality beam sabre attacks that well, as seen a beam sabre slash can cut off a limb clean, but slashes at the cockpit usually are held off by plot armor (supposedly the cockpit area is better armored), though a direct stab goes through anything, even a Gundanium armed cockpit. It is proven since Odel Barnett's Cockpit stab at his brother lead to the statement "you are dead" for Odin/Adin, despite Geminass 01 being made of reinforced Gundanium. The armor also didn't help any of the MO-V team against Hydra's remote cannons, which are approximtely around the same league as a normal Funnel or DRAGOON leading to the partial destruction of L.O. Booster, Aesculapius and Griepe.

If you rely on plot armor, don't go against SEED, for real. SEED has more plot armor than any other Gundam series except Beltorchicka's children qualitywise and completely leads quantitywise.

[Hero_Akiar]

You give the epyon too much credit, the tallgeese III is superior to it so zechs would actually be piloting it instead of the epyon. The buster cannon is useful when fighting against many enemies or enemies with a lot of armour. It's a lot weaker in water and usaully is unsafe to use in a colony. The place where it is most effective and safe is in space but we know that rau fights in space all the times and his gundam has so many beams that it is ca basically attack from any angle. In the end, the tallgeese wouldn't be capable of destroying all the dragoons with the buster rifle and will use its beam sword which will prove to be too slow in destrying them. Zechs will proberbly charge in on Rau after realising this and his MS will get destroyed before even reaching Rau.

[Ajpinecrest2]

1 more chance before I admit defeat are the dragoons PS Armor protected?

[Randomperson]

I hope your not getting another one of those "lol letz aim at wun of teh remote pawn weponz first and giv an opening for the many other one 2 attack insted of attacking teh main unitz with exact same risk" ideas...

[Deamon9]

Ha, you wish! Wrong mecha anime, Gundanium is not Ultra Alloy New Z rofl.

Gundanium Alloy is just an excuse for the gundams in W not to be destroyed by Leos, though even the Serpents in the movie were able to severely damage Wing Gundam Zero with *normal* bullets while it was worn out enough.

If I guessed the scene you meant with your example, it was when Heero was piloting Heavyarms and faced Zechs, they fought with sabres after Heero removes an arm, (Heero was wounded on that side). During the encounter Zechs starts to dominate and consecutively slashes heavyarms across its shoulders and then abdomen, being parts of the torso and heavyarms stayed near unharmed, Heero's counterattack was a stab but it merely strafed Tallgeese, upon which Zechs continues whacking it back and forth with his sabre, though Heero was backing off. The lack of visible damage on the Gundam is mainly because Zechs was using Tallgeese I which was equivalent to a Leo in close combat damaging power (however, being much faster than a Leo gives it a clear edge). Alternatively, this was possibly simply plot armor beyond all logic (used VERY often in W and SEED as blatant excuse) as the gundams proved to be more vulnerable throughout the series.

Gundanium does not hold higher quality beam sabre attacks that well, as seen a beam sabre slash can cut off a limb clean, but slashes at the cockpit usually are held off by plot armor (supposedly the cockpit area is better armored), though a direct stab goes through anything, even a Gundanium armed cockpit. It is proven since Odel Barnett's Cockpit stab at his brother lead to the statement "you are dead" for Odin/Adin, despite Geminass 01 being made of reinforced Gundanium. The armor also didn't help any of the MO-V team against Hydra's remote cannons, which are approximtely around the same league as a normal Funnel or DRAGOON leading to the partial destruction of L.O. Booster, Aesculapius and Griepe.

If you rely on plot armor, don't go against SEED, for real. SEED has more plot armor than any other Gundam series except Beltorchicka's children qualitywise and completely leads quantitywise.

Wing Zero Vs Nataku (don’t remember its other name). Gundanium Alloy is as strong if not stronger than the shielding of the Gundams from Gundam seed. I have seen both Wing and Seed key factors in the Gundams is that the Gundanium alloy is meant to take more of a punishment of all rounded attacks while the shielding from the seed Gundams is strong but it doesn't take the same amount of punishment as the Gundanium. This data comes from watching both shows to their fullest (even though Gundam seed repetitive fighting was just god awful).

Since is the late episodes of Gundam Wing the Gundam Wing one took a direct shot from the space station although over 90% of the Gundam was gone it wasn't destroyed although it suffer a direct shot. Other data comes from the Nataku Vs Wing Zero fight in Waltz, both Gundams where fighting with beam weapons and doing some major damage to each other but if you notice closely at the fight the armor was bending not slicing.

As for the seed Gundams it was hard to decipher just how much damage they can take. Since its mostly looked at the major fighting where the Gundams actually take damage every other episode is the repetitive dogging. The armor alone can't take the Beam saver damage but it can take normal weapons fire and explosions pretty well with out suffering much damage. But unlike the Gundanium Alloy the armor has it's limits and after a period of time the shielding will wear out.

As for the Zecks Vs Rau fight
Epyon Vs Providence
The clear winner will be Epyon since the Gundam is a close range fighter and its built for speed. Epyon like the Freedom will be able to evade all those DRAGOON remote weapon fires. While the Zero system of the Gundam will help to predict the attacks from the remote weapon fires.

Tallgeese III Vs Providence
That’s a tough one. It could go either way since Tallgeese is like Epyon minus the zero system and the Gundanium alloy but adding a Beam rifle and a shield. Still this unit didn't see the action needed to determine its actual combat stats.

Note: This data is from what I gathered from looking at both series.

P.S
Gundam Seed wad god awful.

[Randomperson]

Since is the late episodes of Gundam Wing the Gundam Wing one took a direct shot from the space station although over 90% of the Gundam was gone it wasn't destroyed although it suffer a direct shot
Thats what I meant with plot armor beyond all reason. I watched every existing gundam show and even read the sidestories, and in a W sidestory it was clearly to be seen that Gundanium breaks under suffiscient powerful weapons although being very resistant. Limbs WILL be cut off and cockpit stabs WILL remain deadly.

Other data comes from the Nataku Vs Wing Zero fight in Waltz, both Gundams where fighting with beam weapons and doing some major damage to each other but if you notice closely at the fight the armor was bending not slicing.
You mean this battle from Endless Waltz?

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9710/gundanium1ym6.png

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4160/gundanium2ki6.png

The attack was *blocked*, and from that slight touch the Gundanium armor already bent. Gundanium is just one big hobo excuse for plot armor beyond reason. PS armor takes direct hits from physical attacks and won't even get a scratch (but it uses up energy).

The clear winner will be Epyon since the Gundam is a close range fighter and its built for speed. Epyon like the Freedom will be able to evade all those DRAGOON remote weapon fires. While the Zero system of the Gundam will help to predict the attacks from the remote weapon fires.

In people's imagination, their favored character always win close range fights for some reason... I also think Epyon is fast but the ZERO system is not that great at predicting things. The "over thousand possible outcomes" thing is exaggerated in its usefulness. Lets assume your mind suddenly recieves 1000 possible actions and outcomes and you have a split second to react, choose the right one. Now thats impossible, so the system works in another way by also stimulating the pilot adding in hallucinations and urges of imminent actions, now its possible to react halfway once you have some combat experience. But come on, if the ZERO system would perfectly predict everything then Heero must be some very stupid dork or extremely an unskilled clutz in some situations, which I do not assume. The ZERO system is not as flawless as people always handle it when bragging with its capacities.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/758/zero1er1.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2969/zero2ro4.png

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4500/zero3nz8.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1896/zero4uk3.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3645/zero5ox7.png

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/8918/zero6zl2.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5303/zero7jl3.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/710/zero8kq1.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1821/zero9uc2.png

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/71/zero10ma4.png

Failing to counteract a single Dragon Claw, so its fully plausible common sense that you can dodge multiple DRAGOONs firing beams at you right?

[Yadomaru]

OH GOD, that post is made of so much win.
@Ajpinecrest2: Yes, they are.

[Hero_Akiar]

Randomperson just seriously owned them lol, it's a shame aswell but they were always on the losing side. Rau was always the HUGE favorite. The zero system isn't all that great, as i said before, the tallgeese III(though lacking the system) is superior to the epyon.

The tallgeese is very original and looks very cool compared to the gundam X rip-off.

[Randomperson]

Wow, you typed a text which is identical to the Wikipedia entry.

Now what are you trying to tell us with that?

side note: they forgot to write that it can't be detected by radar because of being electrically neutral.

side note 2: Gundarium Theta part is purely trivial and has no real connection to the UC. There's also a white haired boy who knows Relena named Kai and looks just like Kai Shiden (except for hair color and style).

[Vic]

that is so fucking stupid...

[Ajpinecrest2]

Then why did you bother posting

[Randomperson]

He means what Deamon did I think.

@Deamon09: If you want to quote a part of the wikipedia entry for the purpose of argument, its fine but don't just slap th complete text into here and expect it to work out, try pointing out the parts that you are using for the argument.