Strongest non-Captain Shinigami

[BleachSenna]

Who do you think is the strongest Shinigami who is not a Captain?

Ikkaku because he has a kickass Bankai and can already use one.

Renji just sucks big time...

Yachiru, we dont know much about her though. She's fast but no idea how powerful she can be since she never fights.

Yumichika has potential due to his Shikai ability.

What do you all think?

Edit: Lets leave Ichigo out since he is technically a human and not really a Shinigami.

[Mithrandir]

Ummm... Ichigo? -_-

[Dreamy]

i would go with ichi too, cuz after all, he's the main character and continues to grow stronger and stronger throughout the anime.

[StalkerPizza]

Ummm... Ichigo? -_-
Ichigo isn't a shinigami. He's a vaizard....>_>

If ex-shinigami captains count: Urahara and Yoruichi
If they don't: Ikkaku

[Mithrandir]

Ichigo isn't a shinigami. He's a vaizard....>_>

Just because he gained vaizard powers it doesn't make him not a shinigami anymore. Arrancar are still hollows, even though they have extra abilities. The same goes for the vaizards.

[BleachSenna]

Lets leave Ichigo out of the equation since he is only a substitute Shinigami and technically he is still a human.

[Dreamy]

then isshin kurosaki. ^^

[Warrior of Light]

Wouldn't he be the same thing?

[EnyosWrath]

Umm that's a good question, I think he should be left out too. We don't know enough about him.

[Dreamy]

well i think they should count cuz even tho they are human, they still are part shinigami.. T-T
oh well.
then yachiru!!!!! ^^ :yay:

[IceyHitsugaya23]

aizen cause he's not a captain anymore but if he doesn't coun t then it goes to ichigo

[xPyrox]

Hisagi!

just cause he's sexy

&& he means people that haven't been captains or are captains.

[HanakoAbarai]

Since Ichigo should not count, nor should Isshin or any of the ex captains, I would go for Ikkaku and Yumichika.

[Lnrd]

If we're talking not at captain now it's Aizen. If we're talking never been a captain it's Ichigo. If we're talking never been a captain and a real shinigami it's Ikakku, until we know what Hisagi can do.

[Dreamy]

but there all all those vice captains,, don't they count?

[Jeffusz]

That'd probably be Ikkaku. :amused:

[Kaxix]

If Ichigo doesn`t count I would say Renji.

[vitopimpin]

Ikkaku he has a good bankai and dosent get his ass beat like renji

[Urahara kiske]

shinji ,urahara, isshin .... period........ all are not captains and are in the human world....

[Dreamy]

i thought we took isshin out, too.

[Urahara kiske]

i thought we took isshin out, too.

oh sorry bout that ...i didnt see ... it

but ion think so ill go check

[Lucky]

I'm assuming we are talking about CURRENT Shinigami non-Captains. And I'm not counting Ichigo the "Substitute Shinigami/Vizard".

That title would easily go to either Renji or Ikkaku Madarame. It's really a toss-up between those two. I'd like to say it's Ikkaku without a doubt, but a fight with he and Renji would be one hell of a battle, plus Renji is the more 'major' character so that might work in his favor. Even though Ikkaku was a bit of a mentor to Renji back when Abarai was an 11th Division member. Honorable mention to Shuuhei Hisagi, and Yumichika. Perhaps even Matsumoto is up there.

[octocheese]

Okay, forgive me if I get this wrong:

If we're not counting Ichi, Isshin, Aizen, Tousen,Gin and vizards....

And since we haven't really seen what Yuroichi, Urahara, and pretty much most of the vice-captains can do...

I guess Ikkaku. I know he's got some vulnerabilities in his bankai but he's awfully strong and learned his bankai on his own in secret. That's got to count for something.

(Aside- I hope Yachiru kicks serious butt soon- and then makes sure Ken-chan was watching:amused:)

[djray]

well lets j kick all of the interesting picks out should this be in matchups?

and i refuse to sort out my attitude lol

[apocalypselate]

Yachiru ( 'cuz i wanto to. lol)

[Paragon]

Ikkaku would be the strongest. Hes pretty much captain class.

[shawnka-chan]

My opinion is the same it's ikkaku. But I guess the 1st vice captain must be pretty strong if he's the Vicecap. of Yama-jii.

[Paragon]

My opinion is the same it's ikkaku. But I guess the 1st vice captain must be pretty strong if he's the Vicecap. of Yama-jii.

I doubt it. Ichigo owned him with ease without even using his zanpaktou.

[Enyalie]

Gonna have to be Renji or Ikkaku...

What's all this "Renji sucks" stuff about, anyway?

Let's go over some major battles without the "Renji=sucks" filter on... with spoiler tag just to be safe since I'm new...

As for the first Ichigo-Renji battle, well, I maintain that pineapple's heart wasn't in it and he was taken by surprise more than anything else. He was turmoiled. :) And also being cocky and didn't have the same saving-Rukia's-life motivation. He did much better on the rematch.

I seem to remember Ikkaku being soundly whupped by Ichigo, but for Ichi-Renji round duex... well, maybe Renji cried about "losing" at the end there, but remember he gave as good as he got. Plus if Ichigo hadn't happened to have the hollow mask that saved his life, or have two friends nearby to pull him out, he would have been dead or captured. I call it a tie when both parties are lying inches from death on the ground at the end.

And Renji's one of about, oh, 3 people we've seen dodge Byakuya. If we're basing this "Renji is weak and slow" theory on his loss of that fight and then-awkward (first time ever used!) Bankai, well then, I think that's ignorant of the power level Byakuya's supposed to be at. Which is to say stupid high. He'd be offended that you think so little of him as to call Renji weak for losing to him.

And on that note we better not go into losing against Aizen.

Just-barely-winning against Yylfordt was a plot device to show off limit releases and all. Ok, so it sounds a bit like a lame excuse even to me now, but aside from the fact that it just didn't feel like he was operating on the same level as we've seen him do before, it still puts him at the same level as Hitsugaya who did... exactly.. the same... thing. Ikkaku never had his power limited since he's sneaky like that.

So the only actual uber-pwnage that I really was, like, "oh, come on, Renji!" at was against Syazel... who had minions and study time and crazy pink hair to pwn with. And Ishida got pwned too. And Syazel was in turn pwned by a guy that Ishida had once pwned, so obviously that whole "I studied your very soul before you got here, mwa ha ha" stuff was pretty darn effective. And even in that fight, don't tell me that those of you who aren't total Renji-haters didn't think something along the lines of boo-yah! when he pulled that close range fireball stunt.

Maybe Ikkaku would have something of an edge. After all, he's had Bankai for longer. But Renji ain't so soft as everybody's got this silly idea about. He and Ikkaku being the only two non-captains with Bankai that we know. I think they're close to the same level.

And one of the two is definitely the most powerful non-captain Shinigami.

[Lucky]

My opinion is the same it's ikkaku. But I guess the 1st vice captain must be pretty strong if he's the Vicecap. of Yama-jii.

That means nothing. Sasakibe (Yama's VC) hasn't shown ANYTHING to suggest he is anything but the lowest possible tier VC. He's on Oomaeda level. Just because he's the 1st's VC means absolutely squat.

[Yokokorama]

We haven't seen Yachiru fight, so we can't really anything about her. Ikkaku and Renji are the only ones left if you're talking about Shinigami only in Soul Society. However, if the outside can also be included, then probably Urahara Kisuke or Yoruichi.

[jodocast]

If we exclude the vaizards,Ichigo,Aizen,gin,and tousen then its Ikkaku or Renji.

[kvb666]

I'm gunna say Yachiru or Nemu(she can't fuckin b killed) in the ladies
Yumichika in guys

[Dreamy]

ehh..
well yumichika's zan. is pretty strong, but i think ikkaku would be able to beat him, and after all, ikkaku is at a higher rank than yumichika, plus he has bankai.

but for me, yachiru ftw. ^^
and she IS the vice captain of the 11th div.

[Poopoomaru]

I would say Renji, he gets too much shit for getting douched out of ever winning so Kubo can showcase other characters.

[Kenpachi Bankai08]

Ikkaku, hands down. could be a captain, but doesnt want too. he would whoop renji's ass.

[Poopoomaru]

Ikkaku, hands down. could be a captain, but doesnt want too. he would whoop renji's ass.

How do you know?

[Shiroi Ookami]

(since this thread is about non-captains I will exclude anyone who is or has been a captain that is a full sinigami)

Well the obvious choice would have to be Ikkaku since he is strong to begin with and has a kick @$$ Bankai!

Renji - Probably second on this list, he has trouble controlling his Bankai sometimes though.

Other Vice-Captains:

1st Division - Chōjirō Sasakibe: Unknown, but probably pretty weak since Ichigo k.o.'d him with one hit

2nd Division - Marechiyo Ōmaeda: See above, plus he seems to be an idiot and a coward.

3rd Divsion - Izuru Kira: Not a bad fighter, his Shikai has a useful abilityt
- Makoto Kibune: This guy has serious potential. I doubt he has a bankai, but his shikai is pretty strong. This guy could potentially be 3rd strongest.

4th Division - Isane Kotetsu: Medic Squad. Also see #1 again.

5th Division - Momo Hinamori: She has strong kido skills and seems capable with a sword. She could easily hold her own with most lieutenants.

7th Division - Tetsuzaemon Iba: Potentially a strong character. We just don't know enough to make a full judegement on him.

8th Divison - Nanao Ise: nothing really known about her.

9th Division - Shūhei Hisagi: I would imagine he is fairly strong since he was an instructor at the academy. Again too little is known about him.

10th Division - Rangiku Matsumoto: Her shikai is fairly strong. If she could commit to training and achieve bankai she would be in the running for a top three spot.

11th Division - Yachiru Kusajishi: her power is unknown at this point, but she has to be strong is the squad members fear her (or it might be Zaraki that they fear too)
-Yumichika Ayasegawa: skilled in combat, and potentially has the ability to use kido. His lack of combat time in the series makes it difficult to judge his strength though.

12th Division - Nemu Kurotsuchi: She is potentially deadly since no-one really knows all of the secrets that Mariyu used when making her.

13th Division - Kiyone and Sentarō - neither of these two seem particulary strong or capable in combat.

-Rukia Kuchiki: Her shikai is one of the more powerful ones in the series and her kido skills are very strong. Her lack of combat experience before the beginning of the Arancar story arc and lack of a bankai are her real limitations.


[/LIST]

[djray]

i think we should do only canon characters

[thebassman]

ummm ichigo?no. DON KANOJI!!! or even better... :kon:

[rangerbob27]

actually i have a question before i answer because even thought the vasto lords are hollows they have been mixed with shinigami powers which make them shinigami right?

[cheetahrob]

looks like everyone has agreed on ikakku. i agree too cause he's got bankai and although i love renji as a charachter, he can't really control his very well yet.

[terrorlim]

Ikakku it is !!

[ChaoticConform]

Well i'd Have to say Renji and if you count ichigo then both. Granted Ikkaku is strong and has bankai...when ichigo fought ikkaku he had some trouble, but he had a hell of alot more trouble and nearly died when fighting renji in soul society...later in the series...and if you think about both ichigo and renji put up a good fight with byakuya...ichigo technically didn't win...if his hollow hadn't shown up he'd met the same fate as renji....so in my opinion reji and ichigo are almost on the same level..they have thier own style of fighting that makes them weaker and stronger fighting certain opponents based on the oppenents abilities...but thats all my opinion..later all

[rangerbob27]

ok since that isn't prolly going to work i would have to say the strongest shinigami that is not a captain would have to be Ayasegawa Yumichika because of what his zanpaktou can do lol xDDDD

[HanakoAbarai]

actually i have a question before i answer because even thought the vasto lords are hollows they have been mixed with shinigami powers which make them shinigami right?


Not sure this question should be here, but anyway:

Not exactly - Vasto Lorde is simply the third level of evolution for hollows - you have the menos or gillian (stupid, foot soldiers), then adjuchas (more inteligent, in charge of the gillian), and then finally Vasto Lorde. What you are talking about is either a rare natural occurence, when the Vasto Lorde takes off his mask, and becomes a natural Arrancar, or it's done with the help of Hougyoku, which Aizen stole from Urahara Kisuke.
Natural Arrancar are fairly unfinished and unstable, as one could have seen in ep 111(?), the ones created with Hougyoku are then on a completely different level, actually obtaining some Shinigami powers, such as having a zanpakutou.

[tao44]

any of the vizards who wern't captains get my vote

[zeroOo]

ok since that isn't prolly going to work i would have to say the strongest shinigami that is not a captain would have to be Ayasegawa Yumichika because of what his zanpaktou can do lol xDDDD
if you anyone would know the ability it aint that strong anymore, hisagi said he was just ubersuprised, obviously ikkaku gets it because renji already said he's the strongest VC

[TW501]

The most powerful non-captain would technically be Aizen, since he's no longer a captain, but in terms of people who had never been captains, I think it's Ichigo. Of course since you probably weren't thinking of Ichigo, I'll say Ikkaku or possibly Renji.

[Poopoomaru]

Well the obvious choice would have to be Ikkaku since he is strong to begin with and has a kick @$$ Bankai!

Renji - Probably second on this list, he has trouble controlling his Bankai sometimes though.


Well if you wanna play the bankai-fault game then you could easily say that Ikkaku's bankai is too brittle. It cracked against Edorad's blasts. Against a stronger opponent who isn't to say it wouldn't have broken? It even shattered at full power at the end of the fight. Against an opponent who wouldn't fight as directly as Edorad did and didn't fight in a way that essentially was what his bankai was specialized for might have the fight go disastrously for him. The only thing his bankai offers is raw power, Edorad decided to have a full power everything in one shot power clash with him, which is why he lost half his midsection.

What about someone who could shunpo and dodge? How well will it fair defending against attacks over a long term battle?

Renji's bankai is way more versatile.It can attack, defend, and has a range of abilities. I don't think I need to explain to what degree since all you need to do is what the Renji v Byakuya fight.

Renji's non bankai combat also far outshines Ikkaku's. Renji fared WAY better against Ichigo then Ikkaku did in their Soul Society bout. Since then Renji could have only gotten stronger considering his training with Chad and number of fights since then.

[Hiwapi]

Hmm it appears to be Ikkaku
i wont go with Ichigo cause he is the main char and sometimes main chars are op
As for Ikkaku i go with him cause he has the bankai,thats the only actual reason
As for Renji he simply sucks,he cant compare to the others
If Ikkaku didnt have bankai i would go with Rukia cause she sure has potential above everyother shinigami and she deffinetely is somewhat strong
i know that i may be flared for this but its the truth,Rukia even if to some ppl dont like it she is strong and she has great potential..i wont mention that she could be a sitted officer or even a vice-cap cause u know that already..and thats not my saying its Kubo's :P
for these reasons i go with Ikkaku :)
(for now :P )

[ogichi12]

i say ikkaku cuz his bankai is way strong not mention if he could flash step he'd b even more deadly

[Kuroshimaru]

i'll say it's ichigo bu just beccause he is th emain char i could say that ikkaku is the storngest of all non capitans

[Ururu Tsumugiya-sama]

Well, i dont really like him but i think ikkaku, hes the only one with bankai -forget renjii. admit it, he aint so tough-

[Yoruichi-hime]

Hiyori

[Shiroi Ookami]

Since Renji and Ikkaku have been discussed in great detail, does anyone want to discuss some of the other Vice Captains and Officers?

It would be hard to actually rank them since each one has different strengths and weaknesses so this list is not really in canonized order, it's more of a brief rundown.

1) Rukia Kuchki- now I know that she's far from the most popular character on this forum, but she did fight and win against an Arrancar - and without the help of a Bankai.

2) Makoto Kifune - while he was held to a draw by Kira, we really haven't seen the extent of his powers yet. His Shikai seems to be really strong and he also seems intellegent and capable of keeping a cool head in a fight.

3) Yumichika Ayasegawa - he has a strong Shikai and is part of the 11th division (which is known for strong combatants). His vanity and ego get in the way of his fighting sometimes, but overall he is a strong character with plenty of potential.

4) Izuru Kira - a dedicated Shinigami whose biggest flaw is a lack of self confidence. He has shown that he can be an effective fighter when the situation demands it and if he can actually gain the self-confidence he needs, he might be able to become strong enough to work towards a Bankai.

5) Rangiku Matsumoto - she is one of the older lieutenants (it is assumed she is about the same age a Gin Icimaru) and has a powerful Shikai, but her laziness and aloofness prevent her from becoming stronger.

6) Momo Hinamori - she has exceptional Kido skills and is good with a sword. Unfortunately it seems she is easily shaken in battle and lets her emotions get the better of her.

Also: Hisagi and Iba seem to be strong fighters, but there is just not enough known about them to make a real judgement. If I had to estimate where to put them on this list I would estimate that Hisagi would be 3rd or 4th and Iba would probably be 5th or 6th.

None of the other lieutenants or officers have shown anything in terms of combat skill so I would have no way of even estimating their ranking.

[McFlyan]

Ichinose. He made Zaraki go all out during their fight and his shikai is pretty devastating

[Xelphus]

Filler characters aside:

I would like to point out that Ikkaku sucks at Kidou, he's said it himself that he hates it. That alone brings him down a peg. Renji sucks at Kidou, but at least he tries to use it.

Yumichika and Rangiku are both in the process of learning Bankai, meaning they don't have it yet (that maaaay have been in the filler though).

I would define strongest as best in the four categories, but I would have to say that Ikkaku has the brute strength at the very least. We really haven't seen too much of the other non captains though.

[Night]

Hmm.. I'd say Ikkaku.. or Ishida.. heh

[Flowing Ice]

Should Ichigo even count in his discussion, since he's not even part of any of the Divisions?

Anyways, whether Ikkaku is or isn't the strongest non Captain seat, he's definitely up there, and would be a strong contender for it. Yamichika as well..I believe he may have Bankai..or some really strong Shikai move, if it wans't Bankai.

[Vamp302]

I would say Yachiru Kusajishi. Ken-chan must've seen something in her. No telling what she's capable of. Just don't piss her off.

[Vamp302]

Well, either her or Isshin Kurosaki. nuff said

[Gath]

ima have to be redundant and say Ikkaku.

For a second (even though we know practically nothing about her), yachiru. who else has created a demon-like reiatsu just cause she was bothered while watching a fight lol. Plus you know as has skill being kenpachi's vice captain. can't see him respecting her if she didnt.

[metalsoup111]

@Vamp302: FYI, double posting is a no-no.

Probably Ikkaku or Renji...bankai! I doubt any shinigami of equal or lower ranking could do much around them. Maybe Yachiru. She's seem like a tough little cookie.

[Chimp Dudley]

I would think Ikkaku is the strongest shinigami at this point.

[freshbleach]

i think that Urahara, is still a mystery and could potentially be really strong, also Rukia if she reaches bankai could even be stronger than she already is. i wonder wat her zanpoktou loooks like materialised.

[RokuNR]

Wouldn't he be the same thing?

Isshin is a full blood shinigami but married Masaki who was human. He's not human at all, he's in a gigai. Isshin says so himself.

[xPyrox]

jeez, non captain shinigami means Shinigami who aren't captains.
Urahara. Was a captain.
Vizards, were captains.
Isshin, wear's a captains cloak so he probably was.


I think Hisagi. Non released sword and beat Yumich shikai' till he bought an ace out of the bag.

but then below him, Ikkakau

[aizen_sousuke]

ichigo.

[Ruzabaka]

Ikkaku. A-ma-zing Bankai. Though how people are saying Renji's bankai sucks, give the man a break! He got it recently yo.

[cort]

Ikkaku

[bigcarm]

Has anybody said Tessai yet?

[Luune]

I wouldn't count Tessai since he's technically a captain. So I'd say it's between Renji and Ikkaku for the simple fact that they have both achieved Bankai. In the end I'd give the edge to Renji. Ikkaku has a powerful bankai, but it's weakness is that it takes a minute to charge up.

[bigcarm]

How is an exiled former captain still "technically" a captain?

Edit: Wow, so several people have sort of gone over the OP's head on this one and laid down a lot of restrictions. So filler characters, vizards, former captains, and humans are excluded now?

Seems like someone wants to start an Ikkaku vs. Renji thread, because those are the biggest two names left.

[Zaylen]

I'd say ikakku, he's so badass in his bankai :P

[Mike Kuchiki]

Aizen-sama.

[Zaylen]

Aizen-sama.

lol? We are talking about non captain shinigami aizen was captain -.-

[Mike Kuchiki]

Correct, He isnt a captain anymore, But he is a Shinigami, Therefor He is the Strongest Non-Captain Shinigami.

[zanpaktou0101]

my vote would be for ikkaku

[iamtherulez]

It seems kira is very strong. madrame is also strong, he can use bankai although he is not a captain.

[WTFIceman]

Ikkaku, hands down... If he could get anymore badass they would have to call the anime bald instead of bleach...

[lordantoon]

Kira for the win here.

Couple of hits with his shikai and everyone (except Rangiku)Can't fight not even Renji's snake since that head would be to heavy to move.

Thats how i see it

[MidnightSaber]

Well based on what i've read in the manga so far. Ikkaku is the strongest non-captain Shinigami. Although with a good statgery Renji could beat Ikkaku that it for the facts parts.

Although I personally think yarchiru might be the strongest. I mean there got to be a very good reason why Kenpachi made her his vice-captain. I don't buy it just because of the father-daughter relationship either.

[WTFIceman]

Yea, I really wanna see what yarchiru can do... I hope that we get to see what she can do in the near future..

[huey06]

did u see the massive reaitsu she had when the messenger dude pissed her off??? she has to be powerful from being that close with kenpachi and his reaitsu spilling out all the time im sure.

[asura21]

ya huey06 is right being the vice -captain of 11th squad she has to be bad-ass,besides she has benn exposed to kenpachi's reiatsu since she was a kid

[SBowman]

ya huey06 is right being the vice -captain of 11th squad she has to be bad-ass,besides she has benn exposed to kenpachi's reiatsu since she was a kid

That's under the assumption Kenpachi's not a nepotist.

[Alva]

Ikkaku just 'cause he so damn aggressive. Kinda like a young Kenpachi.

[fracsek]

Yachiru is really strong but we dont know anything about her power. Ikkaku, beacause he can use bankai but he doesnt want to be a captain, so he has the power and abilities to be captain.

[NekoTron]

If ex-shinigami captains count: Urahara and Yoruichi
If they don't: Ikkaku


I think the same as you :amused:!!!
Renji's bankai sucks a lot.... too weak :weird:!! Yumichika is better if achieve Bankai.... maybe...

[Vamyan]

I would still think Ichigo, considering his father is a shinigami, it makes him a 'true blood' making him a shinigami by default, I agree that he is a Vizard though, but if not allowed to say Ichigo I would go with either Renji or Ikkaku

[Hachuyani]

Ichigo, he's about Captain level in my opinion. If not him then Renji because they both know Bankai.

[pumpkin13]

Most of Zero division lol... they're all previous captains, but there can only be one Taichou and one Fukutaichou in Zero division, so you've probably got 10 or so seated officers who are all ex gotei13 captains and roughly around high tier captain level. Only named one we've seen so far is Hikifune, although she could have been made VC or captain i guess, but unlikely considoring the recentness of her appointment.

I just didn't want to go with the obvious choice and go with Ichigo.

[Hachuyani]

Most of Zero division lol... they're all previous captains, but there can only be one Taichou and one Fukutaichou in Zero division, so you've probably got 10 or so seated officers who are all ex gotei13 captains and roughly around high tier captain level. Only named one we've seen so far is Hikifune, although she could have been made VC or captain i guess, but unlikely considoring the recentness of her appointment.

I just didn't want to go with the obvious choice and go with Ichigo.

Never thought of it like that, technically even Kisuke is a non-captain making him Valid. I agree with that satement.

[pumpkin13]

Yeah, Kisuke, Yoruichi and Tessai are all valid, as are Shinji, Love, Rose, Kensei, Hacchi, Lisa, Masahiro and the hick one...

and actually, there an even better choice than Ichigo, considoring they have long term high ranking Gotei13 powers, AS WELL AS 100 years worth of training on their hollow masks, I'm thinking either Love or Shinji is the most powerful.

[Hachuyani]

Yeah, Kisuke, Yoruichi and Tessai are all valid, as are Shinji, Love, Rose, Kensei, Hacchi, Lisa, Masahiro and the hick one...

and actually, there an even better choice than Ichigo, considoring they have long term high ranking Gotei13 powers, AS WELL AS 100 years worth of training on their hollow masks, I'm thinking either Love or Shinji is the most powerful.

ah them too! I'm gonna go with Shinji on this one. Plus I know more about him than Love.

[ninski]

i was gonna say renji or ikkaku bonkai mode...but then i got to reading and i think it would be yoruichi or urahara. Yoruichi has the knowledge and skill and it seems Urahara has an immense vat of knowledge and that's what "one ups" him really, not his skill..which we havn't really seen yet right? ^_^

[madden89]

if vizards are included,i want to shinji...but i don't think there's enough info about him so ichigo gets the title...he won against lots of strong opponents...

[temari]

I will say all the vizards, Urahara, Yoruichi and Ikkaku (even that we don't know much about her & her abilities but still i think she is powerful & had so much hidden powers that she hasn't revealed them yet) and of course Ichigo, seeing him fighting and winning against captains and learned how to use Bankai with the hard way and in a short time that was really impressive, in my opinion,i thing he is the strongest

[Diels-Alder]

Um, Aizen. Technically he's a shinigami and technically he isn't a captain...anymore...buuuuut....Urahara or Shinji otherwise.

[Whyte Bler 000]

im not counting urahara, tessai, yoruichi, aizen, gin, toussen, shinji, love, rose, kensei, etc. because they were all captains at one point, so really they should be left out.

I would say hisagi or yumichika. Hisagi handled the fraccion easily after releasing his sword. He may still have more left to show. Yumichika for his broken shikai ability to suck the reiatsu from his opponent. Ikkaku would be, but he never wants to fight all out, and he's not nearly the level of zaraki, so he shouldn't be doing that. Kira's opponent had his wings as weapons, so his swords ability was just perfect for that fight.

[black_label]

hisagi fo sure

[crisis point]

Ikkaku ftw. I've just seen his Bankai and his fighting will is incredible. I think he is underplayed and could be even stronger. Plus he's Lucky!

[pumpkin13]

Admittedly the title says strongest non-captain shinigami... if it was non-captain level, then i'd say ikakku or renji. Seeing as it says non-captain (with an inferred present tense, ie non current captain) i still say that the VC of Zero Division is likely the strongest "non-captain" shinigami.

[Goroth]

I'd go with Kira, he is wise and his Zan is a force not to be taken "lightly". Also Renji has a wicked a power, maybe a bit heated but still strong in terms of power.

[TokyoRacer]

Um...wouldn't it be Ichigo?

[Angels Punishment]

Um...wouldn't it be Ichigo?

No because he said to exclude Ichigo. lrn2read:amused:

[Wolfos]

Ikkaku he has a good bankai and dosent get his ass beat like renji

YOU obviously haven't read some of the latest manga.

Ikkaku gets his ass handed to him and just about DIES during the war. He's the only "pillar guard" that can't hold off the first wave of arrancar.

im not counting urahara, tessai, yoruichi, aizen, gin, toussen, shinji, love, rose, kensei, etc. because they were all captains at one point, so really they should be left out.

Tessai wasn't a captain. He was the SECOND for the Kidou squad. Go reread your manga. It's one of the negative chapters.


As for my vote, I'll base it on known facts and my opinions of them.

I am of the opinion that Yumichika is overrated due to his surprise element when using his ability.

As for Ikkaku, he's too much of a bonehead in his fighting, and I believe that intelligence is a must for being considered the "best."

Renji is too green for me. Sure, he displays some good tactics now and again and has great power and potential, but all he's currently made of is potential and not real power yet (my opinion of Ichigo as well).

Yachiru is a toss up. Either everyone is afraid of her because she's so strong or because her captain is so sick. Not enough on Yachiru to make those better than 50:50 odds.

I can't say anything about Kira that isn't bad. His lack of confidence kills his fighting.

My call? It's Amagi. Read some of the latest manga, and you'll see EXACTLY why I picked him.

[TokyoRacer]

I didn't bother to read OP's post.

[djray]

well if you want to get technical id say aizen....but lets exclude yoruicig urahara and vizards probably renjis bitch ass im not sure....strongest non capt level is for suure hitsugaya lol

[Konjiki]

Ikkaku or Hisagi imo.

[pumpkin13]

YOU obviously haven't read some of the latest manga.

Ikkaku gets his ass handed to him and just about DIES during the war. He's the only "pillar guard" that can't hold off the first wave of arrancar.

Yeah, he didn't use his bankai though. He would have had a much better chance had he done so.

Tessai wasn't a captain. He was the SECOND for the Kidou squad. Go reread your manga. It's one of the negative chapters.


This says otherwise:
http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000039281/09.jpg

As for my vote, I'll base it on known facts and my opinions of them.

I am of the opinion that Yumichika is overrated due to his surprise element when using his ability.

As for Ikkaku, he's too much of a bonehead in his fighting, and I believe that intelligence is a must for being considered the "best."

Renji is too green for me. Sure, he displays some good tactics now and again and has great power and potential, but all he's currently made of is potential and not real power yet (my opinion of Ichigo as well).

Yachiru is a toss up. Either everyone is afraid of her because she's so strong or because her captain is so sick. Not enough on Yachiru to make those better than 50:50 odds.

I can't say anything about Kira that isn't bad. His lack of confidence kills his fighting.

My call? It's Amagi. Read some of the latest manga, and you'll see EXACTLY why I picked him.

Amagi? Lame filler sh*t? I'd rather choose Yachiru over lame ass filler.

[Marrow Rivengristel]

Ichigo's dad whats his name? Isshin....

[Razvan_Asakura]

My pick would be one of the 5 "giants" from Karakura .

Isshin , Urahara , Yoruichi , Tessai or Ryuuken .
I guess , Urahara or Isshin . It depends , since we haven't heard what kind of seat did Ichigo's dad had in the past .

[pumpkin13]

Ryuuzaki? who on earth is (s)he?

[Razvan_Asakura]

Ryuuzaki? who on earth is (s)he?

Ishida's dad . cool mofo

edit : oh wait , nvm..made a fuckin typo..its Ryuuken.

[pumpkin13]

yeah, i was like uuuuh? But i recall ryuzaki being a character from another anime or manga so just figured you made a minor typo, no worries.

[crisis point]

Ryuzaki was what L called himself in Deathnote. And Ishida's dad isn't a shinigami so I don't think you can count him.

[eneru92]

Probably Ikkaku , Renji or Hisagi .
However , with his cheap zanpakuto , yumichika can also hold the title as strongest non capitan character

[Guts]

I'm assuming that Ichigo doesn't count . . .

In my opinion, the stongest non captain is Yumichka because his zanpaktu's ability pretty much renders his opponents useless. He just never uses it.

[pumpkin13]

Doesn't nesc. mean he's the strongest... means he's the most hax and the most able. But there must be a limit to its ability, i mean Yumichika vs. Zaraki, even if it is hax i dont think its going to win against the captain.

Well... technically Ichigo ISNT a captain so yeah he does count, but there are theoretically stronger non-captain shinigami even than him.

[usopenkid]

ikkaku

[Exiazer0]

i say ikkaku, kira, or that one guy with the 69 on his face

[kochito22]

kira? the guy who nearly pissed himself by watching hitsugaya fight?

[rrjc22]

i thinks its ichigo,he`ll eventually become more stronger than old Yama

[VegetaFan7]

besides ichigo, i think its.... renji or ikkaku oh! i am sandracoon's little brother

[Exploits]

I am absolutely certain it's Renji.

[pumpkin13]

aside of The Zero Division VC that is. And if that's too obscure for you then Lisa and Hacchi (and highly likely Masahiro and Hiyori) are stronger than Renji and are not captains, nor did they used to be.

[Exploits]

aside of The Zero Division VC that is. And if that's too obscure for you then Lisa and Hacchi (and highly likely Masahiro and Hiyori) are stronger than Renji and are not captains, nor did they used to be.

Aren't they arguably Vaizards, not Shinigami? Rather trite argument I know, but that's the only reason I didn't mention one of them.

[Luna]

that one guy with the 69 on his face

Shuuhei Hisagi. Yumichika defeated him rather quickly, so I'd say no.

I'll agree Ikaku is a possibility. A lot of this does hinge on whether or not you include the vaizards as shinigami.

[McFlyan]

Not including vizards, former shinigami, ichigo, or filler characters i'd say ikkaku. He's definitely stronger than renji, i mean he freaking taught renji how to fight. Pit ikkaku versus renji and i guarantee ikkaku and his bankai would take down renji and his lame ass bankai.

[pumpkin13]

Shuuhei Hisagi. Yumichika defeated him rather quickly, so I'd say no.

I'll agree Ikaku is a possibility. A lot of this does hinge on whether or not you include the vaizards as shinigami.

Yumichika however has a hax zan and as it currently stands, empirically could beat anyone in the series because we haven't been given an upper limit on his ability. Yumichika would likely beat Ikkaku and Renji as well as Hisagi.

Not including vizards, former shinigami, ichigo, or filler characters i'd say ikkaku. He's definitely stronger than renji, i mean he freaking taught renji how to fight. Pit ikkaku versus renji and i guarantee ikkaku and his bankai would take down renji and his lame ass bankai.

I dunno... It might not be physically stronger, but it's more versatile, fast, good defensive and offensive capabilities and has a ranged attack, as well as can split itself up into bits.

I'd say the bone snake is at least as fast as Ikakku, plus when Ikakku goes to attack it, the coils can just seperate then rejoin after his blade has passed by. Ultimately renji can keep Ikakku at distance, whilst still reserving some coil in defense to wrap and twist around him should ikakku get past.

On top of that Ikakku suffers from brittle blades, he'd have to try and end it withing the first five minutes or so otherwise he'd start to put himself at a serious disadvantage.

Out of non-captain level shinigami (ikakku and renji might just touch the underside of that with their bankais) I'd say Hisagi. Out of the four pillar fights, Ikakku loses, Yumichika wins with haxness, Kira wins utilising his haxness and Hisagi basically just wins with what he's got, his zan doesn't appear to have any haxness, it's just him, some shunpo, some kidou and two scythe like blades connected by a chain. On top of that he only releases in the last fifth or so of the fight, most of the time he's going toe to toe with Findor in sealed form.

[Goroth]

Yes, we haven't seen much Yumichika action. But i think he can be just as strong as those mentioned above, remember when he showed a bit of his original and secret power? That was a scene to consider in this situation. If it comes down to which is strong, i think agility and powers combined would be a better way to determine who is, if by brute force and massive reaitsu, Ikkaku and Renji are possible.

[wHitEycHaN0710]

I think it's Ikkaku. His bankai is freakin' strong.
But I don't think that would be my final answer since as of this moment, there are only 2 non-captain shinigamis can do bankai[since Ichigo doesn't count--as the first page of this thread says.]. I wanna see them all go bankai and when that time comes, I can say who is the strongest--without any doubts.ü

[McFlyan]

@ pumpkin: renji could keep ikkaku at a distance for at least a few minutes. but you're also assuming that ikkaku isn't a smart enough fighter to see a way around that. it ultimately comes down to who is the better fighter and who can use their bankai more effectively (ikkaku has had way more time to train with his bankai) and that's why i don't see renji winning that fight

you do raise a damn good point about hisagi though. i hadn't thought about his fight with findor that way and i think i'm changing my choice about the strongest non-captain shinigami to him.

[Basior]

Hisagi has potential and also he is shinigami for a while. He doesn't use his shikai too often so I'm wondering how far from achiving bankai he really is and as looking for the VC serving as the leaders of their Squads (Kira,Hisagi,Momo) he has the biggest chance and potential to become a captain in near future. And there's also the factor that we didn't see Nanao, Yachiru and Nemu in action. But as so far I'll say: 1. Hisagi 2. Renji 3. Ikkaku 4. Yumichika

[Davo1515]

I'd say Hisagi. However, im not entirely sure. I think we need to see more of all the non-captins before this can be decided. Kira and Yumi win with haxxed powers, and ikkaku lost his fight.

[Basior]

Hm as for Kira's abilitity and Ikkaku I'm not sure it would be a loosing factor-Ikkaku is quite strong physicly and maybe giving more weight to his bankai blades will give them power-remember the bigger mass in big speed the bigger among of power.and also as for Ikkaku and Yumichika-Ikkaku's bankai is based on pure strengh so maybe drawing his spirital energy won't make him much weaker.

[Rufix]

mm Aizen of course, he's not a captain anymore, maybe Shinji, Kubo knows...

[Basior]

Not including vizards, former shinigami, ichigo, or filler characters

Let's do it this way and a good idea would be to change the name of the thread to "Strongest non-capitan shinigami in SS" it would be easier and people would focus on the one left there:-)

[Ren_Sk8rgurl]

well, I love Hisagi's zan, he pretty much mastered it. But sadly he hasn't achieved bankai yet. Ikkaku and Renji are almost neck and neack with each other. Didn't Renji say out of all the lieutenants, his zanpakuto was the hardest to master? i'm giving him kudos for that. But Ikkaku taught him how to fight. So they are a tie. Hisagi will come in at second, though once he does learn bankai, I'm sure he'll jump up. Rukia's zan has potential, could've made VC, so I'm throwing her in there as third.

[Death_plus1]

Just because he gained vaizard powers it doesn't make him not a shinigami anymore. Arrancar are still hollows, even though they have extra abilities. The same goes for the vaizards.

Ok, the rules say NO ICHIGO!!!!!!! ICHIGO IS A HUMAN!!!!!!!

I would have to say Ikkaku or the 5th seat gay dude(dont remember his name), because Ikkaku has a sweet bankai and the other dude has an incredibly powerful energy-absorbing shikai.

[McFlyan]

Yumichika isn't gay! At least i don't believe he's gay, he may be metrosexual but we haven't seen him hit on other guys or even allude to that.
Back on topic, yumichika may have a hax shikai but that doesn't mean the rest of his abilities are anything special

[UlquiorraKuchiki]

I'm going to say Hisagi. So far I think he has shown the greatest level of fighting out of the VCs and such. Although he may not have bankai (I say may because there could be the chance he doesn't use it because like his shikai, he doesn't like the look of it) he is able to fight toe to toe in his sealed state with opponents that many of the other characters would release against from the get go.

[Szarlej]

Yumichika isn't gay! At least i don't believe he's gay, he may be metrosexual but we haven't seen him hit on other guys or even allude to that.

Proof that Yumichika isn't a gay. He told about Orihime pretty.

Back on topic, Hisagi has a quite high chance of having bankai. If he has bankai, he should be close to Hitsugaya's level.

[Yadomaru]

I'm gonna have to say Hisagi, Ikkaku, Renji. In that order. Those guys kick ass.

[VegetaFan7]

I would narrow it down to:
Hisagi
Renji
and Ikkaku. I know I'm forgetting one.

[Tefresh]

I kind of want to say Ichigo but I don't know.It seems as though he could be a whole lot stronger.For some reason it seems as though he hasn't really awkened Zangetsu.I mean all he says is Zangetsu not a command like"pierce the moon, Zangetsu" or "cut through the sky pierce the moon" but oh well. Other than Ichigo it's most likely Ikkaku.He's not hax at all and seems to be in full control.

[Yadomaru]

It's not that he hasn't "really awakened" Zangetsu or anything of that nature, it's quite simply that he never learned to seal the damn thing - In other words, there's never any need to "release" its shikai, because it always is in shikai already.

Thus, no shikai release command is necessary.

[eneru92]

well, I love Hisagi's zan, he pretty much mastered it. But sadly he hasn't achieved bankai yet. Ikkaku and Renji are almost neck and neack with each other. Didn't Renji say out of all the lieutenants, his zanpakuto was the hardest to master? i'm giving him kudos for that. But Ikkaku taught him how to fight. So they are a tie. Hisagi will come in at second, though once he does learn bankai, I'm sure he'll jump up. Rukia's zan has potential, could've made VC, so I'm throwing her in there as third.

completely agree .

[Tefresh]

@Yadomaru Thank you very much.This has been bugging me. So essentially what you're saying is that if a Zanpaktou is sealed it needs a release command other than just the name.So essentially if Ichigo does ever seal Zangetsu he needs a release command.And also(sorry I just like to know things before saying anything else)does this mean zangestu may change or may gain other abilities as well?

[vastroLordeIchigo]

kenpachis vice captain the little girl

[VegetaFan7]

I can't say that it is Yachiru because I haven't seen her fight at all.

[fakeobsession]

hmm,I'll say Ikkaku.

[porfavor]

Assuming we're leaving ex-captains like Yoruichi and Urahara out of this, I would say Kurosaki Isshin. It has been stated that he is captain level, and I can't think of anyone else who would even come close to that level in Karakura.

In Soul Society, it would of course be one of the lieutenants. I'm a Kira fangirl, so I'd definitely say he is one of the stronger lieutenants, but based on what we've seen (I think the 1st VC has something to show us somewhere down the line), I'd have to say Hisagi or Iba. Ikkaku and Renji do have bankai, so maybe they should be counted as very strong, but they still have not gotten full control of their powers yet. Whether it is on purpose or not, the manga/anime has shown Renji and Ikakku to be on the weaker side of the spectrum, whereas Hisagi defeated his opponent easily and with grace.
It might just be the fact that Renji and Ikaku got too much screen time, though.

[VegetaFan7]

Isshin is an ex-captain.

[porfavor]

Oh yes, I forgot about that.

Just to play devil's advocate here, it is never specifically said that he was a captain. Just captain-level, which could be applied to many people. (though it's a safe guess that he's captain since he's wearing a torn captain's robe...)
:)

[kochito22]

Isshin is an ex-captain.

Prove it.

[Kukaku_Yamada]

Ikkaku is amazing. I love his strength.

[darkp]

Ikkaku and renji. It is hard to chose but ı will go with ikkaku cause he teach renji how to fight :D

[Spectre]

I say it would've been Kaien(if he was alive).

[Physer]

I say it would've been Kaien(if he was alive).

I agree with Zakura.
Kaien was acting as a captain since Ukitake-taichou wasn't be able to execute the normal captain duties. If he's capable of doing that, then it makes him alot stronger than just an ordinary fukutaichou. I think Kaien is pretty much the strongest non-Captain Shinigami

[kochito22]

Rukia > Hollow > Kaien

[Lnrd]

I agree with Zakura.
Kaien was acting as a captain since Ukitake-taichou wasn't be able to execute the normal captain duties. If he's capable of doing that, then it makes him alot stronger than just an ordinary fukutaichou. I think Kaien is pretty much the strongest non-Captain Shinigami

Kira, Hisagi, and Momo are all both running there respective divisions aswell, does that make them stronger than Renji or Ikakku? We can't even compare Kaien's strength to that of current VCs so he should be left out of the discussion. And, as of what we know currently it's a tie between Renji and Ikakku with the slight edge to Renji because he knows a little kidou.

[Seanc]

Ikakku. Kaien If he was still alive

[Kukaku_Yamada]

You know, I never considered thinking about Kira and them, or Kaien.

[porfavor]

Kira, Hisagi, and Momo are all both running there respective divisions aswell, does that make them stronger than Renji or Ikakku?

Exactly, with the exception of Momo. Momo has been shown to be not as strong by recent manga chapters, and she wasnt running the division after Aizen left, she was recuperating for a large amount of the time.

However, Kira and Hisagi should be recognized for their work, and I do think they are one of the high tier VCs

[fakeobsession]

Momo looks weak imo...
Hasn't ever show any really resolve

[McFlyan]

And, as of what we know currently it's a tie between Renji and Ikakku with the slight edge to Renji because he knows a little kidou.

You really wanna give renji an edge for his kidou? That's like giving Bush an edge in a political race cuz he fucked up a position already. Renji has only proven that he knows how to make kidou spells blow up.

[Lnrd]

You really wanna give renji an edge for his kidou? That's like giving Bush an edge in a political race cuz he fucked up a position already. Renji has only proven that he knows how to make kidou spells blow up.

Well he isn't great with it, but he is better than Ikkaku with it. Who down right said he would never learn how to use it. It's a very slight edge, but an edge none the less.

[VegetaFan7]

Good point.

[Kukaku_Yamada]

I never thought Momo was strong. She only knows how to use her kido.

[VegetaFan7]

I agree. I know she's a leiutenant, but she's only used her shi kai once.

[Kukaku_Yamada]

But, I'm sure if she applied herself in battle, she would probably have an awesome move that we wouldn't expect from her.

[VegetaFan7]

Oh definetly.

[eternio]

Ikakku does have bankai, which def edges over most of the other ltnts......i do wanna say matsumoto as well. the ash sword could have SOOO many uses....like just making it enter somebodies lungs or something to that extent.

[fifenfk]

IMO i would have to go with ikkaku based on the fact that he almost never fights all out unless he fights alone and is always waiting on his opponent to push him to the next level so that he can up his level.His bankai is just raw power and that gives him a edge over his opponents and taken into consideration that he trains harder than most and is fearless in battle.

[Naruubi]

Ikkaku just because he's friggin awesum.....then Matsumoto....80085

[Kukaku_Yamada]

Matsu is great.

[VegetaFan7]

I like her too.

[McFlyan]

She's definitely not the strongest non captain though.

[Urahara456]

It's all about Ichigo's dad he is hella badass.

[Random]

i would say based on the current arc, that ichigo is the strongest non-captain shinigami, that is if there is no gay stipulation in the first post that says you can't choose ichigo

[Kiyuu]

i nominate, isshin, urahara, yorouichi along with the vizards who weren't captains when they were living in SS.

[fakeobsession]

i nominate, isshin, urahara, yorouichi along with the vizards who weren't captains when they were living in SS.

Urahara - Yoruichi were Captains once...
So I don't think it counts...

[WakeUp_Benihime]

Kira, Hisagi and Ikkaku. I like their will of fighting along with Renji. I would certainly say Kaien if he was alive because he was around when Yourichi was captain. I could only imagine he would be captain-level if he was alive.

[Kukaku_Yamada]

Well, I seriously don't see the problem with saying Yoru or Urahara and them. They were captains before the beginning of the show, so it shouldn't be a problem. Right?

[dyne]

Isshin

[Kukaku_Yamada]

See. It shouldn't be a problem if Dyne ois allowed to vote for Isshin. He used to be a shinigami, well, still is.

[Szarlej]

He probably used to be a Captain, so he doesn't count.

[Kukaku_Yamada]

Oh. that sucks.

[nightmare_beta]

O_O
kukakuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I LOVE!

[krnxracer90]

I would have to say Yumichika because....aside from the fact that he hides the ability.....he owned his enemy while getting recovered at the same time. Also, Kira isn't that bad either.

[Shinigami383]

Since Ichigo is considered a substitute shinigami i would say he is the strongest non-captain shinigami. When he drops the hollow mask, no one in soul society would be able to beat him. Notice that i said "soul society". The real world and hueco mundo are different stories.

[Rosh]

At the top ogf my head if its not excluding Captain's then im going to say Hisagi, Kira, Ikkaku, Momo, Rangiku and Yumichika.

[Cappu]

Probably Kukaku, since he has a power of captain level.

[Rosh]

Since Ichigo is considered a substitute shinigami i would say he is the strongest non-captain shinigami. When he drops the hollow mask, no one in soul society would be able to beat him. Notice that i said "soul society". The real world and hueco mundo are different stories.

Anyone in the soul society..hmm... what about Yama-Ji??

[MashiroKuna]

i would say that nel is the strongest non-captain

[kochito22]

She's not a shinigami.

[Retsu Unohana]

Renji, Ikkaku, Rukia, and Yumichika

[Rosh]

Renji, Ikkaku, Rukia, and Yumichika

I agree with all of them except for rukia

[Hitsugaya_Hinamori]

I would say rukia,ichigo,ikaku,yumichika.i choose them it is because that they have fight strong enemies and they always win.i never choose renji because i dont know i just never think he is strong.and forgot matsumoto

[En]

Renji, Ichigo.

[Nana]

Ichigo, Ikkaku and Yumichika would be my guess. I have my doubts about Renji because we've seen his bankai but not too much of its abilities/powers. I hope his bankai has other abilities.

[skycrapper]

My top 3 : Ichigo, Ikkaku, Renji . . . bankai users.

[Falariel]

ichigo, urahara, isshin...

except if urahara being a former captain makes him still a captain.

[666]

Ichigo, Ikkaku, and Renji.

[Rosh]

ichigo, urahara, isshin...

except if urahara being a former captain makes him still a captain.

As it does with Isshin, who was a former captain aswell

[kochito22]

As it does with Isshin, who was a former captain aswell

That can't be proven yet.

[nuttychemist]

Since Ichigo doesn't count... I'm going to have to say Ikkaku, not only is the fact that he has had bankai for probably a long time without anyone knowing... but he's kick ass without it.

[tequilla_boom]

Renji, matsumoto, ikkaku, and kira

[Rosh]

^I agree Rangiku is strong as hell, I forget to put her on my list

[nuttychemist]

I agree with all of them except for rukia

Why do you disagree on Rukia? Since she's recovered her shinigami powers... she's pretty darn bad-ass. She should be a seated officer if not for that darn over protective older brother :D

[kochito22]

Being a seated officer means nothing compared to certain characters. Sado knocked out a 3rd seat with one punch with his first arm.

[nuttychemist]

Being a seated officer means nothing compared to certain characters. Sado knocked out a 3rd seat with one punch with his first arm.

True... but Rukia isn't some push-over... I would have said she was weak at the beginning of Bleach since she gave most of her shinigami powers to Ichigo.

I think its interesting to see that there is a varying range of skill level... sure Chad took out one 3rd seat.. doesn't mean that he'd be able to do that to all 3rd seats.

[kochito22]

Rukia was molested by a regular hollow before she gave her powers to Ichigo. Since then, the only training we've seen her do is with Orihime, the character who doesn't fight. Rukia's weak.

[nuttychemist]

Rukia was molested by a regular hollow before she gave her powers to Ichigo. Since then, the only training we've seen her do is with Orihime, the character who doesn't fight. Rukia's weak.

Just because Rukia "trained" with Orihime... doesn't mean she's weak. She's won some pretty good battles. Her zanpaktou is pretty badass in my opinion... but maybe its because I love the ice/water based ones :p :)

If I wasn't so tired I'd look up examples of Rukia kicking ass...

[eneru92]

Rukia was molested by a regular hollow before she gave her powers to Ichigo. Since then, the only training we've seen her do is with Orihime, the character who doesn't fight. Rukia's weak.

that was the almight plotkai that every one talk about when the argument is Rukia . If she wouldn't have got injured by that hollow , ichigo wouldn't have obtained his shinigami power , and bleach wouldn't have started .

[tequilla_boom]

that was the almight plotkai that every one talk about when the argument is Rukia . If she wouldn't have got injured by that hollow , ichigo wouldn't have obtained his shinigami power , and bleach wouldn't have started .

thats true.But back to topic- rukia is NOT weak. But there are stronger shinigamis. (non captaims)and thats it.

[Nana]

I do have to agree that Rukia is not weak but isn't it hard to measure her strength at this point since we've only seen a little bit of her using her Zanpakutou. If memory serves me correctly, she only used the first dance of her shikai right?

[eneru92]

I do have to agree that Rukia is not weak but isn't it hard to measure her strength at this point since we've only seen a little bit of her using her Zanpakutou. If memory serves me correctly, she only used the first dance of her shikai right?

She already used even the second ( hakuren ) and the third dance ( shirafune ) of her Zanpakuto , but I think she still has something to show us ^^

[nuttychemist]

thats true.But back to topic- rukia is NOT weak. But there are stronger shinigamis. (non captaims)and thats it.

I agree :) I can think of several... Kira, Renji, Ikkaku, Iba... etc :)

(I added Iba because he's an all-rounder and only swapped from 11th because he knew he'd never become Vice-Capt of 11th.)

[kochito22]

Just because Rukia "trained" with Orihime... doesn't mean she's weak. She's won some pretty good battles. Her zanpaktou is pretty badass in my opinion... but maybe its because I love the ice/water based ones :p :)

If I wasn't so tired I'd look up examples of Rukia kicking ass...

Oh wait... Yeah... she does kick a lot of ass. She killed a gillian arrancar, Grimmjow's weakest fraccion. She also played possum and stuck a sword through the weakest espada... another gillian arrancar! That does it. She's strong.

Let's overlook her getting stabbed through the chest every few episodes.

[Ulquiorra183]

i think its ikkaku, he has got a very badass bankai

[LazyBum]

Rukia for obvious reasons

She is a Kido Master
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/28/
her destroying a scrub hollow with Kido
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/9/10/

She owns Hollows ranging from SCRUBS to ESPADA
Scrub
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/41/
Espada
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/267/18/

She helps Humans all the time
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/10/09/

She probably has the toughest defense
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/204/08/

[Szayel Aporro Granz]

Ichigo and Hiyori.

[bigdon9]

Ill have to go 1.ikkaku 2. renji 3.kira im not counting ichigo. ikkaku gets the nod off of experience.

[eneru92]

She is a Kido Master
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/28/


Sure .
So , just because the weakes bakudo spell , even used without the chant , was nullified by a boy with huge reiatsu , her kido is weak .
What an awesome logic .

her destroying a scrub hollow with Kido
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/9/10/

Wow , you are smart !
At that time she didn't have even a bit of reiatsu , since all of it was costantly drained by Urahara's gigai and her power was taken by Ichigo .
So your point fails .

She owns Hollows ranging from SCRUBS to ESPADA
Scrub
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/41/
Espada
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/267/18/

Plotkai .
If she wouldn't have get injured by that Hollow , Ichigo wouldn't have obtained his power , wouldn't have known the shinigami and bleach wouldn't have started .
Another fail .

She helps Humans all the time
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/10/09/

What ?

She probably has the toughest defense
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/204/08/

So what ? Rukia is not a captain level fighter . She cannot sustain that kind of damage by an enemy of that power .
Also , Any VC ( even the strongest , Kira and Hisagi ) would get owned like this by Grimmjow ( I hope you don't forget the fight between Luppi , who was a faked espada , and Ikkaku , Matsumoto and Yumichika ? He pwned them with little effort , and they aren't weakling )

[McFlyan]

I do believe that Rukia is a strong shinigami but to say she is the strongest non-captain shinigami is overstating things a bit. Pit her one on one against either Hisagi (who is my vote for the strongest non-captain CURRENTLY in the gotei 13), Kira, Ikkaku, and I can't see her winning. IMHO, Rukia vs. Matsumoto or Yumichika would probably be the closest matchup and they are tough ones to call.

[Houzukimaru]

I do believe that Rukia is a strong shinigami but to say she is the strongest non-captain shinigami is overstating things a bit. Pit her one on one against either Hisagi (who is my vote for the strongest non-captain CURRENTLY in the gotei 13), Kira, Ikkaku, and I can't see her winning. IMHO, Rukia vs. Matsumoto or Yumichika would probably be the closest matchup and they are tough ones to call.

So Hisagi would destroy Rukia but Rukia could beat Yumichika?

You do realize Yumichika beat Hisagi right?

If he uses his real Shikai he would rape Rukia

[eneru92]

I do believe that Rukia is a strong shinigami but to say she is the strongest non-captain shinigami is overstating things a bit. Pit her one on one against either Hisagi (who is my vote for the strongest non-captain CURRENTLY in the gotei 13), Kira, Ikkaku, and I can't see her winning. IMHO, Rukia vs. Matsumoto or Yumichika would probably be the closest matchup and they are tough ones to call.

Agree .
Even if she isn't the strongest non captain shinigami ( Probably both Kira and Hisagi could defeat her because of their better over all abilities ) she is among the top VC level fighters .
However , I think that shikai Ikkaku cannot defeat her ( or hinamori , for example ) because of the advantage caused by the kido ( it's obvius that bankai ikkaku would rape Rukia ) , but this is just my opinion .

So Hisagi would destroy Rukia but Rukia could beat Yumichika?

You do realize Yumichika beat Hisagi right?

If he uses his real Shikai he would rape Rukia

True .
However , Hisagi understimated Yumichika and his real power .
If he would have released kazeshini at the beggining of the fight , he probably would have win with easy .

[Houzukimaru]

^I disagree, Yumichika has a hax Shikai, if he releases at the start of a fight he could beat pretty much anyone that isnt alot stronger than him, probably any non-Bankai user

[nuttychemist]

I do believe that Rukia is a strong shinigami but to say she is the strongest non-captain shinigami is overstating things a bit. Pit her one on one against either Hisagi (who is my vote for the strongest non-captain CURRENTLY in the gotei 13), Kira, Ikkaku, and I can't see her winning. IMHO, Rukia vs. Matsumoto or Yumichika would probably be the closest matchup and they are tough ones to call.

I agree with you... she's not the strongest non-captain... but I hate when people completely bash her because they don't like her :P I will say I think she could beat Ikkaku's shikai... but not his bankai... she definitely wouldn't win against Kira... and I don't think Yumichika either because he'd drain all her energy like he did when fighting Hisagi

[eneru92]

^I disagree, Yumichika has a hax Shikai, if he releases at the start of a fight he could beat pretty much anyone that isnt alot stronger than him, probably any non-Bankai user

Thinking about it , You are right .
It all depend on who release the first , even if i believe that Hisagi could be able to counterattack Yumichika's shikai , since he already sow it one time and there isn't surprise effect anymore .

I agree with you... she's not the strongest non-captain... but I hate when people completely bash her because they don't like her

It's exactly what I wanted to say

[Anomandaris]

Well, Ikkaku (with bankai - his shikai is pretty pants as far as these things go), Hisagi, Kira, Iba and Renji are pretty tough.

Nanao and Yachiru are pretty much a total unknown, so for now we have to exclude them imho.

Not all that much is known about Sasakibe and Kotetsu Isane, but I'd definitely pick others over them.

Omaeda is tougher than previously expected, but imo the first five I mentioned are tougher.

Then there's Yumichika. Assuming he used his real shikai, he's got a chance. Without it, no way. The problem is, how well would it hold up against a bankai? We know he beat Hisagi with it, but IIRC Hisagi wasn't shown to use his shikai, or any kidou. If he had... IMO Yumichika would have lost had Hisagi been truly determined to kill him. Yumichika's shikai is hax, but we don't know the extent of it's effect, and certainly I think he'd get wasted if the power gap was big enough to allow them to finish him before enough reiatsu was drained to prevent them finishing him.

Mastumoto... could win against any of the males barring Yumichika by taking her top off, but that doesn't actually make her stronger. However, I definitely don't think she has much of a chance in an all out fight.

Hinamori's kidou is pretty much unmatched by any other Shinigami who isn't a captain, but I think Kira, Hisagi, Renji and probably Ikkaku could definitely beat her.

Nemu... in terms of actually fighting ability, what have we actually seen? Not much to point in her favour imo.

Rukia... isn't in the running here. Sure, she's not bad, but she's not on a par with the higher-level VC's. Personally, I think she's more third seat level than VC level, but that's not really up for discussion here and I don't think it affects the outcome in anyway.

Imo this comes down to Ikkaku, Renji, Iba, and Hisagi. Kira is good, but Hisagi in particular is better, and Renji and Ikkaku have enough force behind their bankai's to take him down imo. Not all that much is known about how good Iba really is (except that Allon was stronger), which is kind of annoying. For now I don't think I can justify claiming he could stand up to Renji or Ikkaku's bankais. The reason Renji is still here is despite his poor performance recently (the plot always flows against him imo, lol), as a non-captain shinigami he's good. His bankai is considerably more versatile than Ikkaku's, and it's not lacking in power. Too bad he sucks ass at kidou. Ikkaku and Renji are roughly similar imo, and I feel they have similar strengths and weaknesses.

Whether or not Hisagi is skilled enough to not take multiple hits from his opponent would determine the outcome against either of those two imo. I don't think I can justify a call either way...

[kochito22]

Even if she isn't the strongest non captain shinigami ( Probably both Kira and Hisagi could defeat her because of their better over all abilities ) she is among the top VC level fighters .

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/204/08/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/267/18/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/176/19/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/38/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/41/

This happens far too often for me to consider Rukia among the top VC level fighters.

[death wombat]

Yumichika hands down if he would just use his sword. is there really a limit to how much he can absorb.

[McFlyan]

As far as Yumichika goes, his real shikai is hax enough to bring down a number of different opponents, there's no doubt about that. My question is (and this goes for Kira's shikai as well) does a hax zan equate to being among the strongest non-captain shinigami?

I would argue that you can have an awesomely hax shikai and win a bunch of fights but not have much else to fall back on. IMHO, that's not strength but good fortune.

[Warningx13]

Im gonna go ahead and say Hisagi. The fraccion he was fighting was supposed to be of captain level and he handled him quiet easily in Shikai. Its really yet to be seen if he had Bankai, if Renji has bankai Hisagi has to atleast be capable. Renji had been a VC for like a month or two when they grabbed Rukia and then he "mastered" bankai. Hisagi is a sort of "prodigy" not a prodigy. Dont mess around and take it too literal but I remember it being stated that he graduated with very high scores and was given a seat in the G13 before he had officially graduated and is a few years ahead of Renji. So him having it would not be crazy, if he does he is mean.

[kochito22]

It was not captain level. The fraccion overestimated his own abilities. Renji never "mastered" bankai. He learned how to use it. It's like buying a sword. It doesn't make you an expert swordsman.

[Houzukimaru]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/204/08/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/267/18/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/176/19/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/38/

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/1/41/

This happens far too often for me to consider Rukia among the top VC level fighters.

that last one is whats always made me view her as weak, it may have been needed for the plot to advance but still got taken down by a normal hollow

[hollsm1234]

I would say after episode 219 Hisagi! He was f-ing awesome! You can just tell how strong he is! Yup, Hisagi that is who I am going with.

[Rosh]

After recent episodes I have to say Hisagi aswell as Yumichika

[Last Promise]

Renji vs Ikaku vs Kira.
But in the end I will say that Renji is the strongest.

[lady rara]

Hisagi, Kira, Renji, and Rukia

[Anomandaris]

@lady rara: You want to explain why you've put Rukia on a par with three of the stronger VC's?

[UraharaX]

Hisagi FTW

[1 up and 2 down]

I would say Sasikibe(1st squad vc) we haven't seen him really demonstrate his powers but he could possibly be the strongest non captain.

[xrawrx]

I would say Renji, bu that would be a little biased because he is my favorite non captain shiningami (just above hisagi, but the reson i like renji more is because of the stupid 69 tatoo on hisagis face). So i would have to say ikkaku (even though i dislike him with a passion). {I would say hisagi is the strongest but since he hasnt reached bankai he cant be.}

[McFlyan]

I would say Sasikibe(1st squad vc) we haven't seen him really demonstrate his powers but he could possibly be the strongest non captain.

I wouldn't put him in the conversation at all. I doubt that the strongest non-captain would get one-shotted by a bare-handed Ichigo (which Sasikibe is guilty of).