Urahara vs Yoruichi

[eneru92]

Who do you think would in a fight between these two ?

I think Yoruichi .
She is faster , phisically stronger , can use an amazing move like shunpo and is smart too .
Also , she was his capitan .
Urahara is also fast and strong , but not as much as Yoruichi .
However , he is far smarter than her .
He showed to be a strong capitan level fighter , he pwned yammi ( Yoruichi also pwned him ) , but nothing of impressive .
So , I think Yoruichi can win this .

[Cernan]

Well considering that Urahara served under Yoruichi, I would say that Yoruichi is probably stronger. To me, Urahara seems to be the scientist type. Like Mayuri, he may not be the best fighter.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

I think that Urahara would win...his intelligence will prove to be the deciding factor...plus...i haven't seen her use a zan

If its hand to hand combat then Yourichi wins

[pumpkin13]

Initially I leant towards Yoruichi speedblitzing Urahara, then I realised... well she could probably end up speedblitzing one of his decoy gigais leaving him time to get an attack in. But what could possibly make then fight anyway? Unless rough sex got a little out of hand...

[tms]

Doesn't Yoruichi also has many decoy techniques too, like the Cicada technique that Byakuya used, and it seems that there is three other ones at her disposal.

I doubt there would be a winner in this battle. They know each others strengths and weakness too well...

[GOWSRB]

Kind of hard to say. As we have knowledge that they used to train together anyway, so they probably know each others strengths and weaknesses pretty well. Urahar is already smart and probably has at least decent hakuda skills (he was in charge of the maggot's nest). Where Yoruichi has better skills in hakuda and hou-ou and and unseen zan.

And despite the fact atht Yoruichi was his captain, it appears pretty obvious to me that he was already of captain level ability prior to being made a captain. Especially since he achieved bankai in 3 days. And whose to say that Yoruichi's main reason for her reaching her status at an accelerated rate wasn't do to her being the heir of the Shihouin family. (I'm a bit doubtful on this myself though)

But either way, I'd say it would be a decent match up.

[Darkmaterials]

I'd say Yourichi wins if she has a bankai that complements her style of fighting, I'd say Urahara wins if she's lost her Zanpakuto or doesn't use it.

[pumpkin13]

I'd think its highly unlikely that her bankai (or even shikai, which we havent seen yet) do not accomodate/complement her style of fighting. Tousen has someone elses zanpakutou and even his suits his style/ relates to him (sense assualt, bankai removes sight as well as other senses, tousen being blind etc).

[Darkmaterials]

^ I know, I just wanted to consider all possibilities =).

[Lnrd]

100 years prior to the main storyline, I probably would have said Yoruichi seeing how she was his captain and all. But currently I'd defenitely say Urahara because Yoruichi stated how she hasn't fought in 100 years. (Not completely sure about that though) That means she's been sitting around the shop, having "relations" with Urahara, and strolling the town in cat form. (Not training) It's damn near a definite that Urahara has been continiously training in those 100 years imho, because he's not the type to sit on his ass for 100 years like Yoru.

[justin43]

Urahara definitely wasn't just sitting there doing nothing. This is evident by how Urahara switched himself with a gigai making Yammi believe that he actually hit Urahara with his bala. I don't know if that was pure speed or a technique. Either way that was fast. Yoruichi hasn't fought for over 100 years, so I will go with Urahara on this one even through it would probably be a great match.

[Paragon]

Aren't these matches with everyone usually at 100% unless said otherwise by the OP?

[NAM1011]

If we take everything that we have seen so far from the both of them, Urahara takes this.

[UnadvisedGoose]

^I agree. Its not fair to Yoruichi to discount her just because she has been out of shape so far. Considering her skill, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she isn't currently back in tip top shape by now, knowing that things are in full swing with Aizen and all.

But its also not fair to Urahara as of right now. We know next to nothing about him. For all we know, his zan could have many more techniques, or he modded it like Mayuri's. And the gadgets could be limitless. And as for his battle prowess, we've only seen him decimate Yammi and Ichigo. Yoruichi crushed Yammi just as easily. So for right now its much too early to say, as we have seen a bit more of Yoruichi with her fight with Soifon, than what we have seen of Urahara. Even so, both of them have barely shown us what I think they are really capable of. I guess we will see though. Hopefully soon!

Im undecided by the way, if you couldn't tell.

[Lnrd]

^I agree. Its not fair to Yoruichi to discount her just because she has been out of shape so far. Considering her skill, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she isn't currently back in tip top shape by now, knowing that things are in full swing with Aizen and all.

But then again what is that tip top shape? Remember she was still a relatively new captain in the TBTP arc. Since according to Shunsui and Ukitake no captain besides them, Unohana, and Yamamoto have been their more than 100 years. So even using all her power she probably is going to be around the true mid tier captain level imho. (Not that fake shit Bleach fans make up.) While I believe Urahara is going to be a shoe-in for the lower part of the high tier.

[punni]

Urahara talks, Yoruichi listens.
He is wearing the breeches in their relationship.
Probably it already was like that when he was 3rd seat.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-319-page-4.html

They got to be around the same level, or at least have been at one point. The narrator (Kubo) says they are the formerly strongest duo of SS when they faced Ulq and Yami. You cant be a good team if you are too far apart in power.

But all in all Id give it to Urahara based own the little info we have.

[pumpkin13]

@Lnrd: I don't see how you can argue that Yoruichi has only been a captain a maximum of 100 years and as such is at max "true" (whatever that is) mid tier, whilst Urahra is a captain no longer than 10 years in total and he's a shoe in for high tier?

[tms]

@punni You must be joking, if anything Yoruichi is wearing the pants. The only thing that panel shows is the immense trust she has in Urahara. Later when she rescues Urahara, it is shown that she knew what was going on the whole time. She just lets Urahara do his own thing because it's him. Can you really imagine Urahara ordering Yoruichi around ever? Maybe politely asking. You see Yoruichi all over Bleach ordering him around, well it might just be that she gets more serious. Funny how they have similar personalities, like knowing more then they say they do, rather being on the sidelines analyzing then in the battles.

If Urahara can use his gigai and other invention, what stops Yoruichi from using her Shihouin rare artifacts? In my mind they are the two characters I look most forward to see them fight (well not each other).

[eneru92]

But then again what is that tip top shape? Remember she was still a relatively new captain in the TBTP arc. Since according to Shunsui and Ukitake no captain besides them, Unohana, and Yamamoto have been their more than 100 years. So even using all her power she probably is going to be around the true mid tier captain level imho. (Not that fake shit Bleach fans make up.) While I believe Urahara is going to be a shoe-in for the lower part of the high tier.


Imho she is the strongest woman in all bleach series ( or maybe the second , but i have to see what Unohana is really capable to do )
Also , I have no doubt she is at high tier capitan level ... she defeted without her zanpauto a mid-level capitan ( soi fon ) , so she is AT LEAST weak high tier capitan level .

[pumpkin13]

I'd say Unohana is the strongest by implication, although then of course there's Hikifune in Zero division who is, by the very nature that she is in ZeroD and Unohana isn't, suggested to be stronger.

[octocheese]

IDK, too many variables to call this one IMO. Is Yuroichi in tip top form? what is her shikai? her bankai? What tier captain was she really? Has Urahara been training all these years? physically? mentally? what gadgets does he have cooked up? Well, you get the idea. I can say of all the characters yet to fight (with the exception of Unohana) these two are the ones I can't wait to see.

[Lnrd]

Imho she is the strongest woman in all bleach series ( or maybe the second , but i have to see what Unohana is really capable to do )
Also , I have no doubt she is at high tier capitan level ... she defeted without her zanpauto a mid-level capitan ( soi fon ) , so she is AT LEAST weak high tier capitan level .

And, what makes Soi Fon a mid-tier captain? She really isn't that much stronger than Toshiro. If Yoru had defeated Bankai Soifon using her barehands I would defenitely had agreed with you. But in her shikai state she's atleast 5 times weaker than in bankai, that's a pretty big difference in power. So Yoru defeating Shikai Soifon isn't so great as you seem to think. Especially since Soifon's shikai doesn't really increase her abilities i.e. speed, power, defense, etc. It basicly just gives her base form a hax ablility. Which makes Yoruichi's win not impressive at all.

[NAM1011]

Stronger then Toshiro. I do not think so, but that is a different match up.

We know shit about Yoruichi's shikai or Bankai. We know she is super fast and can use shunko.

We know Urahara is smarter. We know Benihime in shikai is fairly strong both offensively and defensively. We also know that he could not train Sado because his Bankai is not made for training. This leads me to believe it is a very strong offensive type. This is just my opinion though.

With all of this said, you have to go with Urahara. We do not Yoruichi's shikai or bankai. THerefore, for this fight, she basically does not have one. We do not know about Urahara's bankai so basically he does not have one.

I basically say Urahara's intelligence and shikai can beat Yoruichi's speed and shunko. This is based on all the information we have. I do not see how you can argue otherwise...well intelligently.

[UnadvisedGoose]

Shunko can fire blasts that are likely to at least match Benihime's "scream". And, from watching Urahara, she probably knows the whole trick to using the same amount of power/force to cancel out a blast. And she fought Soifon, whose zan can kill in two hits, up close without a weapon at all and survived. I find it unlikely that Urahara could get a hit on her without taking a decent one himself, if she is in shunko. And its highly likely that she is faster. On the other hand, he is smarter. So who knows. It can be argued though. Neither of them have shown even close to enough to make any judgement at all, IMHO.

The only indication I have is what punni said earlier, and what I have thought for a while. She definitely listens to what Urahara says. Urahara is the anti-Aizen. He is the master planner. He comes up with the strategies and methods to keep up with Aizen. But this doesnt necessarily mean he is stronger in a fight. He just has the plan and leadership qualities. It seems like Tessai and Yoruichi are pure badasses, yet they listen to Urahara because they trust him. So again, even this is a foggy base for any type of conclusion.

@Lnrd:
I don't think we can make the call that she is not much stronger than Toshiro. We can't know that at all. I'd say she could take Yammi in shikai, when Hits couldn't. I just don't think anyone can say really where Soifon is at in comparison to other captains really. And Yoruichis win was still impressive. Come on. Her hax shikai kills in two hits if hit in the same place on the body and Yoruichi has ONLY her body to try and defend herself with. And she kept with Soifon through that disadvantage for a bit, so its still impressive. And we have no idea how hard either of them was really trying, considering their feelings for each other. Yoruichi acted kinda like she was just buying time to stall for Ichigo and Co. to save Rukia. And then theres the whole "how bad of shape Yoruichi was in" thing. Theres a lot to really think about here that we just don't really know for sure right now.

[punni]

@punni You must be joking, if anything Yoruichi is wearing the pants. The only thing that panel shows is the immense trust she has in Urahara. Later when she rescues Urahara, it is shown that she knew what was going on the whole time. She just lets Urahara do his own thing because it's him. Can you really imagine Urahara ordering Yoruichi around ever? Maybe politely asking. You see Yoruichi all over Bleach ordering him around, well it might just be that she gets more serious. Funny how they have similar personalities, like knowing more then they say they do, rather being on the sidelines analyzing then in the battles.

If Urahara can use his gigai and other invention, what stops Yoruichi from using her Shihouin rare artifacts? In my mind they are the two characters I look most forward to see them fight (well not each other).

pre-SS:
Yoruichi comes to Kisuke and tells him the shinigami are coming for Rukia. [my speculation: To let him decide what to do]
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-51-page-17.html

Yoruichi trains Chad and Inoue, Kisuke probably didnt order her (meaning she does it because she wants to) but atleast he must have told her about them.

Kisuke does all the planning, sets the time table.

after SS:
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-185-page-5.html

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-226-page-5.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-226-page-6.html


They are equals but you get the tendency who is in charge.

[tms]

Yeah I was thinking after posting that entry that I certainly jumped the gun on that one.

Post-SS
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/194/04/

This makes me think that they are certainly on the same level. While Kisuke is certainly the smarter one, Yoruichi is not a dumb slouch either, her expertise has to do with intelligence, stealth, and detection. They defer to each other all the time.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/195/03/

Turn Back the Pendulum, the dynamic is a little different here.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.02/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.02/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.07/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.12/15/


pre-SS:
Yoruichi comes to Kisuke and tells him the shinigami are coming for Rukia. [my speculation: To let him decide what to do]
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...1-page-17.html

I see that more as, you know that they are here... we need to talk.

Though I may give Yoruichi too much credit sometimes.

[TwelveGauge]

That is a very difficult mach-up to judge seeing as we know little of Urahara's abilites other than his shikai and obvious scientific aptitude. I think as it stands now (and even though it causes me great pain to say this) Yoruichi would win. Everything is in her favor. She is extremely powerful and experienced, shunko, hand to hand skills that are out of this world and speed that is just unreal.

While I'm sure Urahara is almost as fast, if not as fast as Yoruichi, the second she gets in close he's a gonner. If we knew more about his kido ability and his bankai I'm sure the tables would turn.

[Bankboy]

EAsy fight for Urahara. he may just pwn her with some milk.

[fakeobsession]

IMO,Urahara would win this fight because he hasn't shown us his full power yet.Youroichi has already said she could not beat Byakuya.Urahara implied he could take Byakuya and Renji.

Urahara is also just too much of a genius. He was the one who invent the learn bankai in 3 days technique.
He probaly invented some really powerful technique and use things to augment his already high power.
And also Mayuri stated that only Urahara had the knowledge to break into Hueco Mundo even if they are trapped in some kind of kidou...(this is kinda irrelevant but proofs how far more clever than the normal he is...)

[TwelveGauge]

when did yoruichi ever say that she couldn't beat Kuchiki? She was the one who out ran and out smarted him while carrying an unconscious ichigo on her back.

[Corrupt^]

imo Yoruichi seems more "powerful" but Urahara seems like the guy that's always 1 step ahead of you and no matter how fast or strong you are, if a person knows your next move, he's more likely to win.

Even in the "milk-conversation" you notice that Urahara already knew about "they".

[TwelveGauge]

idk, they both seem to rely heavily on intelligence and both are steps ahead of the enemy at any given point. you have to remember, the taught each other back in SS.

[Adela]

when did yoruichi ever say that she couldn't beat Kuchiki?

As long i can remember Yoruichi told Ichigo that he couldn´t beat Byakuya when they were fighting on the brigde.That´s why she took Ichigo away.She knew how poferfull Byakuya is and at that time Ichigo didn´t have a bankai to fight against Byakuya.

Back to topic:

I would say That Urahara would win.He is one of the most mysterious character of Bleach and i think he is stroger than we think.We don´t know his real power and his bankai.
You know that Yoruichi is fast but she doesn´t have a bankai to make the fight equal.

[Mikeno]

I'd say Unohana is the strongest by implication, although then of course there's Hikifune in Zero division who is, by the very nature that she is in ZeroD and Unohana isn't, suggested to be stronger.

I dont think just because youve been promoted to 0 division means you are the strongest of the remaining captains in SS.. certainly powerful yes but I dont think its based on you being the most powerful in the Gotei.. its incredible enough to have a division made solely of capatin level fighters period..

and also just because youre invited to join the 0 Div doesnt mean you accept.. I mean its the difference in being "ACTIVE DUTY" and being a personal guard.. if you like being in the "FIELD" youre going to choose to remain there..


As long i can remember Yoruichi told Ichigo that he couldn´t beat Byakuya when they were fighting on the brigde.That´s why she took Ichigo away.She knew how poferfull Byakuya is and at that time Ichigo didn´t have a bankai to fight against Byakuya.

Back to topic:

I would say That Urahara would win.He is one of the most mysterious character of Bleach and i think he is stroger than we think.We don´t know his real power and his bankai.
You know that Yoruichi is fast but she doesn't have a bankai to make the fight equal.

Shes was a captain of course she has Bankai as well as a zan.. {-_-'}.. Zaraki being the only one to have ever achieved captain status without bankai.. so she has one.. it just hasnt been put on display yet.. just like Urahara..



In the end.. NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION
although my gut tells me Yoru might have the upper hand in combat in the end..

[VegetaFan7]

Urahara

[TW501]

To me, Yoruichi seems stronger, but knowing Urahara he's probably hiding something that we don't know of yet, so I'd say that Urahara is a possibility. In actual combat strength though, I think Yoruichi would win.

[justin43]

Not enough info. We know Urahara is fast enough to replace himself with a gigai doll before Yammi could even noticed and that is shikai effortless cut down released Luppi's tentacles. We know Yoruichi can beat unreleased Yammi bare hands without going shunko, but will hurt herself in the process due to his hierro. We know she beat Soi Fon with shunko and bare hands while Soi Fon had shunko and her shikai out.

Feat-wise: As of right now, Yoruichi wins based on feats.
Speculation: I don't see Urahara losing to Yoruichi.
Conclusion: Not enough info to make a good decision.

[jinkkoma]

I think Yoruichi will win...
..'coz Urahara will let her win anyway..

[Bankboy]

^ Just like how he got foot slapped by hiyori :tongue:

[Seanc]

Hmm this is a tough one. I've never seen Yoruichi with a zanpaktou so I'll have to say Urahara.

[eneru92]

Hmm this is a tough one. I've never seen Yoruichi with a zanpaktou so I'll have to say Urahara.

She doesn't use it but she has one .
Infact she was the 2nd division capitan before Soi Fon , so she surely achieved also a bankai

[Seanc]

Yeah you're right. I guess she doesn't need it. I wonder if we will find out what it is?

[Rufix]

Can we even speak bout that?

Yoruichi is surly faster, but I'm not sure about being stronger, though here Shunko comes. Urahara could be thougher and smarter. Both are at Captain level with 110+years experience. We didn't see neither's Bankai (Yoruichi doesn't even use Zan).
Urahara seemed kinda good fighter when it comes to technique (Ichigo's training, he toyed with him), same Yoruichi, though we haven't seen her negating reiatsu blasts without sweating.

We dunno much, but their possibilities look similar, Reiatsu diffrence should be major thing in this pairing and Yoruichi seems to have more of it.

[justin43]

Can we even speak bout that?

Yoruichi is surly faster, but I'm not sure about being stronger, though here Shunko comes. Urahara could be thougher and smarter. Both are at Captain level with 110+years experience. We didn't see neither's Bankai (Yoruichi doesn't even use Zan).
Urahara seemed kinda good fighter when it comes to technique (Ichigo's training, he toyed with him), same Yoruichi, though we haven't seen her negating reiatsu blasts without sweating.

We dunno much, but their possibilities look similar, Reiatsu diffrence should be major thing in this pairing and Yoruichi seems to have more of it.

I am not so sure about Yoruichi having more reiatsu than Urahara, but that is just my opinion.

[Rufix]

That's just estimation, but having her being a captain before Kisuke AND achieving Bankai normal way (instead of special training) makes it argumented.
Also @Lnrd: they should both be @ lower broad of high tier captain by now. Byakuya is mid-tier, how can Yoruichi be classified with him? (I don't mean he's WEAK, there should be 30+years diffrence between them)

[eneru92]

I think that Yoruichi has already reached the level of an high tier captain .
After all , she is the most proficenct shinigami alive in hakuda and hoho and is also very good with kido .

[easY]

Urahara - Has a shield, cero/gt like attack, kidou, and a massive understanding of shinigami in general

Yoruichi - Master of shunpo, hand to hand combat and developed specialized kidou...

Both have bankai - although Urahara isn't used for fighting it seems - years of training and know each other inside out ._.

I'd personally saaaaaaaaaay... Yoruichi for the timebeing xD

[Seanc]

Yoru definiely has the speed. But I think she would be hard pressed to beat Urahara without a zan.

[Lnrd]

That's just estimation, but having her being a captain before Kisuke AND achieving Bankai normal way (instead of special training) makes it argumented.
Also @Lnrd: they should both be @ lower broad of high tier captain by now. Byakuya is mid-tier, how can Yoruichi be classified with him? (I don't mean he's WEAK, there should be 30+years diffrence between them)

Just because she became a captain before him doesn't mean a thing. Especially when you consider she hasn't trained in 100 years. And because she learned bankai the normal way, she's going to get more of a boost from bankai than Urahara? I say no.

About Yoru's and Kiskuke's level- They're at about a upper mid-tier/ low high tier level yes. But, I don't consider Byakuya mid-tier. Imo none of the Gotei 13 captains are mid-tier. You have the Big 4 who are high tier, and the rest who are low. Kenpachi does posess mid tier attack power though. None of the newer captains (Bya, Koma, Mayuri, or Soi Fon) could outright pwn Toshiro by serious overwhelming power imho.

I think that Yoruichi has already reached the level of an high tier captain .
After all , she is the most proficenct shinigami alive in hakuda and hoho and is also very good with kido .

Were did you get that from? Bankai Ichigo is about as fast as Yoruichi. And, last I checked Aizen, Yama, Shunsui, Ulq, Stark, and Released Grimmjow is faster than Bichigo, and in turn Yoru. So hoho is out. And, Soifon was just as skilled with hakuda in their fight. And, how do you grant her that title when you haven't even seen the high tier captains use hakuda yet.

[Rufix]

^Do you think Urahara has trained for those 100 years? Becoming captain earlier probably means she obtained captain level faster. It simply means she was more powerful and if Kisuke's limits aren't higher, she's still stronger. Also Yoruichi learning Bankai in normal way means she mastered materialization, it means she passed certain level Kisuke didn't, which also defines her level somehow. And those are words of Kisuke's fan;P

PS. If I'm right materialization also requires you to have certain high reiatsu.

[eneru92]

:tongue:Just because she became a captain before him doesn't mean a thing. Especially when you consider she hasn't trained in 100 years. And because she learned bankai the normal way, she's going to get more of a boost from bankai than Urahara? I say no.

About Yoru's and Kiskuke's level- They're at about a upper mid-tier/ low high tier level yes. But, I don't consider Byakuya mid-tier. Imo none of the Gotei 13 captains are mid-tier. You have the Big 4 who are high tier, and the rest who are low. Kenpachi does posess mid tier attack power though. None of the newer captains (Bya, Koma, Mayuri, or Soi Fon) could outright pwn Toshiro by serious overwhelming power imho.



Were did you get that from? Bankai Ichigo is about as fast as Yoruichi. And, last I checked Aizen, Yama, Shunsui, Ulq, Stark, and Released Grimmjow is faster than Bichigo, and in turn Yoru. So hoho is out. And, Soifon was just as skilled with hakuda in their fight. And, how do you grant her that title when you haven't even seen the high tier captains use hakuda yet.

Bankai ichigo fast as yoruichi ? that's nonsense
At his best , Ichigo is a bit faster than byakuya , who proved to be much slower than yoruichi .
Also , why people would call her goddes of flash if she was surpassed by other captains in speed ? :blink:
Second , Yoruichi was holding back in her fight against Soi fon , she was in trouble only in the beginning of the fight just because she didn't fight for almost 100 years .
Third , I grant her the title of greates hakuda master because she proved to be it .
She injured yammi's hierro barehanded , I strongly doubt that other characters are able to do that

[Lnrd]

^Do you think Urahara has trained for those 100 years?

Yep.

:tongue:

Bankai ichigo fast as yoruichi ? that's nonsense
At his best , Ichigo is a bit faster than byakuya , who proved to be much slower than yoruichi .
Also , why people would call her goddes of flash if she was surpassed by other captains in speed ? :blink:
Second , Yoruichi was holding back in her fight against Soi fon , she was in trouble only in the beginning of the fight just because she didn't fight for almost 100 years .
Third , I grant her the title of greates hakuda master because she proved to be it .
She injured yammi's hierro barehanded , I strongly doubt that other characters are able to do that

1. Shikai Ichigo was just as fast as Byakuya, if you don't remember. Byakuya couldn't even react to Bankai Ichigo's speed until his speed slowed down due to his bones breaking. So Bankai Ichigo being equal in speed to Yoru is pretty valid.

About "Godess of Flash"- It's a title. Just like Kenpachi means the person with the most kills. (When clearly there might be people out in Rukongai who have killed more people).

Are you seriously going to say Yoru has displayed speed faster than any of the people I said.

2. You have no proof to Yoru holding back in that fight.

3. You're telling me Aizen or Yama couldn't do that. I'd bet Shunsui and Ukitake could do it as well. Maybe, even Urahara and the Ex-Captain Vizards.

[Rufix]

And what makes you think so?;>

[eneru92]

Yep.



1. Shikai Ichigo was just as fast as Byakuya, if you don't remember. Byakuya couldn't even react to Bankai Ichigo's speed until his speed slowed down due to his bones breaking. So Bankai Ichigo being equal in speed to Yoru is pretty valid.

About "Godess of Flash"- It's a title. Just like Kenpachi means the person with the most kills. (When clearly there might be people out in Rukongai who have killed more people).

Are you seriously going to say Yoru has displayed speed faster than any of the people I said.

2. You have no proof to Yoru holding back in that fight.

3. You're telling me Aizen or Yama couldn't do that. I'd bet Shunsui and Ukitake could do it as well. Maybe, even Urahara and the Ex-Captain Vizards.

No , shikai Ichigo was fast as SHIKAI byakuya , not as bankai byakuya .
In their bankais they have similar speed , maybe Ichigo is just a bit faster , and Yoruichi already proved to be much faster than byakuya , far surpassing him while carring Ichigo on her shoulder .

Second , while '' goddes of flash '' is a title that other people gave to Yoruichi , no one gave the title of '' Kenpachi '' to Zaraki , He gave it himself .
There is difference .

third , saying that Ukitake and Shunsui are more proficent in hakuda or hoho than Yoruichi is pure speculation , because while she proved to be a master of these stile , there is no proof tha these two can also hold that title .
Last , the manga itself stated that Yoruichi and Urahara are SS's stronges duo .

[Lnrd]

No , shikai Ichigo was fast as SHIKAI byakuya , not as bankai byakuya .
In their bankais they have similar speed , maybe Ichigo is just a bit faster , and Yoruichi already proved to be much faster than byakuya , far surpassing him while carring Ichigo on her shoulder .

Second , while '' goddes of flash '' is a title that other people gave to Yoruichi , no one gave the title of '' Kenpachi '' to Zaraki , He gave it himself .
There is difference .

third , saying that Ukitake and Shunsui are more proficent in hakuda or hoho than Yoruichi is pure speculation , because while she proved to be a master of these stile , there is no proof tha these two can also hold that title .
Last , the manga itself stated that Yoruichi and Urahara are SS's stronges duo .

1.) The only bankai that increases speed is Tensa Zangetsu. Byakuya did not get faster. Ichigo got slower as his bones folded under his spiritual pressure.

2.) http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.01/11/

3.) And, because we haven't seen them use Hakuda, Yoruichi is going to automatically be better than them at it? No.

About Strongest Duo crap- That was clearly a statement to hype up the entrance of Yoru and Urahara into that battle. Yama clearly states that Ukitake and Shunsui are the strongest team because their abilities complement each others so well. And, how that their teamwork hasn't been surpassed by anyone before them or since.http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/155/10/

[eneru92]

1.) The only bankai that increases speed is Tensa Zangetsu. Byakuya did not get faster. Ichigo got slower as his bones folded under his spiritual pressure.

2.) http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.01/11/

3.) That was clearly a statement to hype up the entrance of Yoru and Urahara into that battle. Yama clearly states that Ukitake and Shunsui are the strongest team because the abilities complement each others so well. And, how that they teamwork hasn't been surpassed by anyone before or since.http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/155/10/

1) However , Ichigo in his bankai didn't show to be fast enough to speedblitz Byakuya , so the gap between them isn't so great .

2) that wasn't Zaraki . Tousen was already a captain when Zaraki killed the 11th division captain .
During the pendulum arc , Tousen was simply a fifth seat .

3) That is your suggestion

[Lnrd]

1) However , Ichigo in his bankai didn't show to be fast enough to speedblitz Byakuya , so the gap between them isn't so great .

2) that wasn't Zaraki . Tousen was already a captain when Zaraki killed the 11th division captain .
During the pendulum arc , Tousen was simply a fifth seat .

3) That is your suggestion

1) Did you read those chapters or even watch the anime of that fight? Bankai Ichigo's zan was at Byakuya neck as soon as the fight started. Bankai Ichigo was even faster than Senbozakura Kageyoshi, the damn petals couldn't keep up.

2.) I know that wasn't Zaraki. The point of that page was to show you Zaraki would have gotten that title anyway. It was tradition that the 11th Div. Taicho is the Kenpachi.

[eneru92]

1) Did you read those chapters or even watch the anime of that fight? Bankai Ichigo's zan was at Byakuya neck as soon as the fight started. Bankai Ichigo was even faster than Senbozakura Kageyoshi, the damn petals couldn't keep up.

2.) I know that wasn't Zaraki. The point of that page was to show you Zaraki would have gotten that title anyway. It was tradition that the 11th Div. Taicho is the Kenpachi.

I can do to you the same question .
When Byakuya unleashed his senkei , Ichigo himself stated that Kuchiki's speed has improved greatly and his on par if not greater than his own .
Infact , after some seconds Ichigo got almost raped by byakuya in term of speed ( the scene is the one right before hado 4 )

[Paragon]

I can do to you the same question .
When Byakuya unleashed his senkei , Ichigo himself stated that Kuchiki's speed has improved greatly and his on par if not greater than his own .
Infact , after some seconds Ichigo got almost raped by byakuya in term of speed ( the scene is the one right before hado 4 )

Byakuya's speed had not increased. It was Ichigo's speed that had in fact decreased due to the his Bankai's reiatsu damaging his body.

[eneru92]

Byakuya's speed had not increased. It was Ichigo's speed that had in fact decreased due to the his Bankai's reiatsu damaging his body.

Sorry , I didn't remember that point .
However I still think that Yoruichi is the fastest character in bleach

[Spectre]

If Yoruichi uses her Zan, she wins. If not, Kisuke wins!!

[AlaisterNakota]

Ok so as far as this subject goes Urahara will win hands down, I know that he served under Yoruichi but he was also Captain of Squad 12 and he knows Bankai; all Yoruich can use is Shunpo, granted tha she is the Flash step Master. And she does have a Zanpakuto but she never uses it because she is more dependent on her hand to hand combat were as Urahara is more of a smart and long distance fighter; beside Benehime would own Yoruich before she could even think of using Shunpo. So I would say Mr. Hat & Clogs would win.

[Nephi]

Woot look at my sig then you know who wins ^^

[Vergil]

I bet it will be a draw because they know each other very well and all thier secret feats wont work on each other unless Urahara pulls smth great.

[Korbenik]

Pretty hard to decide but if Yor doesnt use zan, id say maybe Ura has this one, but still hard to speculate who would win, either way decent match up

[redfable]

Urahara all the way

[(SIC)NESS]

probly urhara remember the fight against yammy he used the his blow up doll thingy yoruichi is fast but think she's not fast enough to see that and urahara said to yammy 2nd fight that when someone uses the same thing twice( or a couple of times) he know the move and will be able to evade it and/or create a countermove
and when yoruichi fought against yammy she had her body all wrecked and urahara (yes with his zan) wasn't breaking a sweat against yammy i think urahara was involved with a lot more fighting considering he was a high ranked detention squad member (don't know which rank)
so i'd give it to good 'ol kisuke

[eneru92]

probly urhara remember the fight against yammy he used the his blow up doll thingy yoruichi is fast but think she's not fast enough to see that and urahara said to yammy 2nd fight that when someone uses the same thing twice( or a couple of times) he know the move and will be able to evade it and/or create a countermove
and when yoruichi fought against yammy she had her body all wrecked and urahara (yes with his zan) wasn't breaking a sweat against yammy i think urahara was involved with a lot more fighting considering he was a high ranked detention squad member (don't know which rank)
so i'd give it to good 'ol kisuke

Urahara portable gigai needs a dumb enemy to be used effectively , I strongly doubt that Yoru would fall for it .
And even admitting that Urahara would be able to set it up without be noticed , Yoruichi would be fast enough to counter attack with her cicada .
Second , Yoru broke her bones against Yammi only because she didn't think that his hierro was so hard , otherwise she would have used shunko .
Using just hakuda , Urahara would have injured himself much more than her .
So you can't compare yammi vs youruichi with yammi vs urahara .
Third , Youruichi was the captain of special forces , how can you say that Urahara was involved with much more fights ?
His duty was to mantain confined dangerous peolpe in detenction , not to kill or fight them .

[ginchan]

uruhara led the special detention squad.
but even that, i think he would win. we do not know the extent of either of their abilities yet, only what rankings they once held.
i'm taking my speculation basically on just how they treat each other.
i think the reason that yoruichi is always not-serious about and with kisuke, is a kind of looking up to him, as if he possibly would have the upper-hand if the situation ever arose.

[Nikato]

Urahara.

He sparred with Yuroichi and shown that he was equally fast and strong like her and could match her hit for hit. He is also far smarter then she is.

Just because he was her understudy doesn't mean anything. Aizen was Shinji's understudy and look what happened. Yuroichi saw that Urahara had the abilities to be a captain and she was right. He's very powerful and very knowledgeable.

[Bankboy]

Urahara performs hollowification art on Yoruichi. Tadaa! Fight ends in an instant.

[eneru92]

Urahara.

He sparred with Yuroichi and shown that he was equally fast and strong like her and could match her hit for hit. He is also far smarter then she is.

Just because he was her understudy doesn't mean anything. Aizen was Shinji's understudy and look what happened. Yuroichi saw that Urahara had the abilities to be a captain and she was right. He's very powerful and very knowledgeable.

That scene was filler , because it isn't included in the manga .
And even considering that battle between them fair , they fight on par just at the beginning , but at the end Yoruichi easily gained the upper hand .

Second , even if Urahara is smart , Yoruichi is not dumb .

[Nikato]

That scene was filler , because it isn't included in the manga .
And even considering that battle between them fair , they fight on par just at the beginning , but at the end Yoruichi easily gained the upper hand .

Second , even if Urahara is smart , Yoruichi is not dumb .

By your logic, almost everything in the anime is filler then, since the anime contains longer fight scenes, or characters actually moving.

I understand what you are saying, but the manga did show that Urahara (especially during the turn back the pendulum arc) is very strong, and with the fights he is a part of he has been shown to be exceptionally cunning, not to mention fast and of course strong.

Your second piece fails though.

Urahara is smart...yoruichi is not dumb. Thats wonderful. We know she is not a dimwit, but she is not even close in intelligence as Urahara is. The only person that could even compete with him is Miyuri. Aizen is a mastermind yes, but it is a different kind of intelligence. I am sure that Urahara has similar, if not equal ability in using spells (i mean hell he has the kidou master as a shop keeper!).

Long story short, Urahara was a follower or Yuroichi, someone she took personal interest in and has known for a very long time. He is strong and capable of many things, his intelligence is great, and even though he fled soul society captain yam still calls on him for service instead of hunting him down. Also keeping in mind that Yoruichi has not trained for the past 100 or so years, Urahara to me just gains the upper hand and would win.

Plus, she doesn't seem to have her zanpaktou anymore.

[kochito22]

I am sure that Urahara has similar, if not equal ability in using spells (i mean hell he has the kidou master as a shop keeper!).

If my brother's a heart surgeon and shares a house with me, does that mean I can perform surgery?

[Nikato]

If my brother's a heart surgeon and shares a house with me, does that mean I can perform surgery?

Have you lived with your brother in solitary confinement for 100 years? Did you create a science department at your old job because you love to figure out how things work? While at your old job did you create devices that started a break in your company causes a few members to go rouge? Did you also manage to create a cloak that masks your presence from others? How about while living in your current house with your brother, did you create two living breathing beings whose primary function is to defeat members of your old work place? Oh by chance did you also hold one of the highest positions possible, which would require that you have exceptional skills all around?

No, I really doubt it.

Don't try to put real life into this, it won't work.

Urahara was a Captain for 10 years before leaving finally. A captain is a shinigami who has great knowledge in all area's of shinigami skills including their spells (with the only exception being stated as Kenpachi). Urahara was a genius and like Mayuri loved to figure out how things work as well as create things. He was able to create a spirit gate to connect the human world to soul society as well create a gate for captains to go to hollow world AND create a fake town that even fooled Aizen.

Do you seriously think someone like that would not already have a high lvl of knowledge on kidou? Do you think that in that 100 years he wouldn't ask Tessai Tsukabishi to teach him a few spells he didn't know? I'd probably guess that Tessai, as leader of the kidou corps, is probably the only person in bleach that knows more about spells then Aizen.

If you lived with your brother for a few decades you would most likely learn some medical skills and gain medical knowledge from him. You may even learn enough to perform small surgery such as fixing a broken leg, though doubtful. 100 years? Unless you were very explicit in not wanting to learn anything, you probably could do a great deal.

[kochito22]

Have you lived with your brother in solitary confinement for 100 years? Did you create a science department at your old job because you love to figure out how things work? While at your old job did you create devices that started a break in your company causes a few members to go rouge? Did you also manage to create a cloak that masks your presence from others? How about while living in your current house with your brother, did you create two living breathing beings whose primary function is to defeat members of your old work place? Oh by chance did you also hold one of the highest positions possible, which would require that you have exceptional skills all around?

No, I really doubt it.

Don't try to put real life into this, it won't work.

Urahara was a Captain for 10 years before leaving finally. A captain is a shinigami who has skills in all area's of shinigami skills including their spells (with the only exception being stated as Kenpachi). Urahara was a genius and like Mayuri loved to figure out how things work as well as create things. He was able to create a spirit gate to connect the human world to soul society as well create a gate for captains to go to hollow world AND create a fake town that even fooled Aizen.

Do you seriously think someone like that would not already have a high lvl of knowledge on kidou? Do you think that in that 100 years he wouldn't ask Tessai Tsukabishi to teach him a few spells he didn't know? I'd probably guess that Tessai, as leader of the kidou corps, is probably the only person in bleach that knows more about spells then Aizen.

If you lived with your brother for a few decades you would most likely learn some medical skills and gain medical knowledge from him. You may even learn enough to perform small surgery such as fixing a broken leg, though doubtful. 100 years? Unless you were very explicit in not wanting to learn anything, you probably could do a great deal.

Most of that has absolutely nothing to do with living with Hachi. You implied that Urahara knows kidou well because he happens to live with an expert. That's silly.

[Nikato]

Most of that has absolutely nothing to do with living with Hachi. You implied that Urahara knows kidou well because he happens to live with an expert. That's silly.

What does Hachi have to do with any of this?

I imply that Urahara is a genius that was still training even after he left soul society, creating more devices and increasing his skills. Living with the Kidou corps captain for 100 years he is BOUND to learn a few tricks from him. The type of person that he is supports that.

[kochito22]

I meant Tessai. I don't know what made me type Hachi lol.

Renji's Byakuya's Lieutenant. Byakuya uses kido well. Renji wants to become stronger. Renji's no kido expert. Thirst for knowledge doesn't go that far.

Urahara lives with Jinta too. He must be an all-star baseball player.

[Nikato]

I meant Tessai. I don't know what made me type Hachi lol.

No worries lol. At least you can spell it. I honestly make up nick names for these guys cause I can't spell Japanese names for the life of me.


Renji's Byakuya's Lieutenant. Byakuya uses kido well. Renji wants to become stronger. Renji's no kido expert. Thirst for knowledge doesn't go that far.

Thats true, but Renji isn't exactly a genius and he's not captain level. He also never developed his kido skills much in school (then again he just plain sucked). Renji also isn't wanting to discover or find out things about his surroundings. He just wants to beat Byakuya. He focused more on strength to overwhelm his captain, which didn't work. Urahara to me at least is a lot smarter then this and looks more at the bigger picture. I just can't see him not knowing kido, based on the fact that he's a scientist, what he's made so far, and that he lives with Tessai, though you are right that it doesn't mean tessai taught him anything. To be honest I can't even recal Urahara using much kido at all.


Urahara lives with Jinta too. He must be an all-star baseball player.

I think thats part of Jinta's personality. That and being comic relief in the manga. But once again you are right. But...I will say that Jinta doesn't really seem to want much out of life, while Urahara is always seeking something it seems.

[Valionx]

I think it quite an even match. Youruichi can use flash release (shunkai, was it?) But Urahara's bankai should be something like that too (probaly nothing physical, since Chad couldn't train against it and we saw some laser-like stuff in the desertors hut - though that may have been kidou)

Though I think Urahara will win in the end, since he probaly can come up with a good strategy that fits Yoruichi's aibility's (which he should know quite well), and Yoruichi would plain simply attack him directly.

[Rosh]

Ok if its hand to hand combat Yoruichi wins, If its with zan then it would be tricky Im still going to go with Urahara.