Bankai Ichigo Vs Jedi Ishida

[Exiazer0]

Who do u think would win?

Personally i think this is mainly just a battle of speed.

[Fornicaras]

What the fuck is a Jedi Ishida?

[He's a Mentalist]

I think he means the Ishida we saw in SS who used the Quincy power he wasn't suppose to use against Mayuri.

[Yadomaru]

No, that's commonly referred to as "God Mode" Ishida.
What I think Exiazer0 is referring to as "Jedi" Ishida is this:

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Bleach/257/019.jpg

[justin43]

Hope so, Nesiox, because otherwise Bankai Ichigo would rape Ishida. As for the matchup, Bankai Ichigo has shown himself to be faster than Ishida through his feats of speedblitzing Byakuya. Bankai Ichigo has shown the ability to take damage from an Ulquiorra cero, so there shouldn't be any one-shotting if Ichigo happens to get hit. On the other hand, Final Form Ishida hasn't shown the ability to take hits any better than he was taking in his normal form. Ishida just dodged with his improved speed. If Ishida gets hit with a GT, Ishida's done.

[eneru92]

Bankai Ichigo , no doubt .
better speed and overall power .

But if the battle was between God mode Ishida and Bankai ichigo , the thing is much different

[Szarlej]

Bankai Ichigo >>> Jedi Ishida

Gode Mode Ishida > Bankai Ichigo

[Soujirou]

Ichigo got a more power, is way more durable and got better moving speed, Ishida got a better Flash Steep Tech (is more skilled at it and can move further than ichigo with each use), more attack rate & range and is a much better strategist.

Of course Ishida got a fighting chance against Bankai only Ichigo, it would depend on how Ishida would be able to use the environment against Ichigo, since he seems to be able to set traps in few moments, because Ishida is pretty much able to dodge Ichigo sword slashes with his Hyeryaku (or whatever it is spelled).

[Afrojack]

I doubt that Ishida has as good a flash step as Ichigo or enough speed to avoid Ichigo's swings. Ichigo can match Byakuya for basic shunpo. There's been no evidence to show that Ishida is particularly fast, as Mayuri was easily able to keep up with him using basic shunpo.

In this sense, I think bankai Ichigo would probably be way faster. The thing to be worried about is the traps. Ichigo, however, is more durable than both Yammi and Aporro, so I don't know how effective it would be, but I doubt it's as strong as Ulq's cero, so I can't see him being taken out by just one.

Ishida is the far better strategist, but in a head's up fight with Ichigo, who while not necessarily strategic is also not a complete dumbass with battle technique and combat awareness, it might not be enough. Ichigo comes out with speed and power that IMO outclasses Ishida's, and strategy alone might not bridge the gap.

Seele Schneider would be a problem. I'd say if Ichigo avoids that he takes this.

[Lnrd]

Bankai Ichigo rapes Ishida no matter what form he takes even that QFF. QFF Uryuu is overrated, he didn't even fully destroy Mayuri. Yet Renji blast Ilforte to shreds, and states how they were basicly the same level. Going off that it is evident that fighters around the same level can still pwn each other in 1 attack. (And, Uryuu didn't do that.)

Now on Topic- Uryuu isn't faster than Mayuri, at best just as fast. Bankai Ichigo is just too damn fast for Uryuu. (Even Base Ichigo is faster). But, Uryuu's Seele Schnieder can stop Ichigo from using Getsuga Tenshous. But, Ichigo still is just too fast for Uryuu, he proably couldn't even react to such speed.

P.S. The Bankai Ichigo I'm talking about in this post is SS arc Bankai Ichigo. If tc meant the current one the fight would be over in 5 seconds. 1 second for Ichigo to pwn him and 4 seconds for him to fall to the ground slow mo style.

EDIT:
Bankai Ichigo >>> Jedi Ishida

Gode Mode Ishida > Bankai Ichigo

Care to prove that?

[darkp]

Hmm ichigo will surely win this match up with ease but ı think kubo should make ishida much much stronger cause he is the only 2 surviver of his class and he should be more special.

[Paragon]

Bankai Ichigo rapes Ishida no matter what form he takes even that QFF. QFF Uryuu is overrated, he didn't even fully destroy Mayuri. Yet Renji blast Ilforte to shreds, and states how they were basicly the same level. Going off that it is evident that fighters around the same level can still pwn each other in 1 attack. (And, Uryuu didn't do that.)

Now on Topic- Uryuu isn't faster than Mayuri, at best just as fast. Bankai Ichigo is just too damn fast for Uryuu. (Even Base Ichigo is faster). But, Uryuu's Seele Schnieder can stop Ichigo from using Getsuga Tenshous. But, Ichigo still is just too fast for Uryuu, he proably couldn't even react to such speed.

P.S. The Bankai Ichigo I'm talking about in this post is SS arc Bankai Ichigo. If tc meant the current one the fight would be over in 5 seconds. 1 second for Ichigo to pwn him and 4 seconds for him to fall to the ground slow mo style.

EDIT:


Care to prove that?

Ilforte was a fraccion whilst Mayuri is a Captain, so that example is poor unless you believe that same attack Renji hit Ilforte with could wipe out a Captain class opponent? The attack Ishida hit Mayuri with would have wiped out almost any Captain in the Gotei 13, because he popped a hole straight through him, that was an attack that would have usually resulted in overkill but Mayuri is haxxed to the max(oh shit that nearly rhymed) so he survived. Not to mention the attacked also destroyed Mayuri's Bankai before it even reach Mayuri himself. Ichigo does not have a single attack that is on that level.

Now as for the speed argument, Ishida minus God Mode is probably on the same level as Mayuri i say that for the reason that Mayuri was able to dodge a point blank attack from Ishida before he went God Mode, but at the same time Ishida has improved since then. Now in God Mode, Ishida speedblitzs Mayuri in the most ridiculous of ways. If Ichigo has any speed advantage over God Mode Ishida then it is nothing worth mentioning, no where near enough to simply speedbltz Ishida and one shot him as you're suggesting. I also don't know how you got the idea that base Ichigo is faster than Ishida though lol.

God mode Ishida is capable of absorbing spiritrons at an insane level to increase his power and considering that his speed suddenly increased after he went God Mode, i think its fair to assume his speed can also increase as well(debatable), so his potential in God Mode is almost without limit. To say that Ichigo would one shot Ishida in Bankai is to downgrade Ishida to a level below that of a Captain and last i checked God Mode Ishida owned a Captain named Mayuri.

[Lnrd]

1.) Ilforte was a fraccion whilst Mayuri is a Captain, so that example is poor unless you believe that same attack Renji hit Ilforte with could wipe out a Captain class opponent? The attack Ishida hit Mayuri with would have wiped out almost any Captain in the Gotei 13, because he popped a hole straight through him, that was an attack that would have usually resulted in overkill but Mayuri is haxxed to the max(oh shit that nearly rhymed) so he survived. Not to mention the attacked also destroyed Mayuri's Bankai before it even reach Mayuri himself. Ichigo does not have a single attack that is on that level.

2.) Now as for the speed argument, Ishida minus God Mode is probably on the same level as Mayuri i say that for the reason that Mayuri was able to dodge a point blank attack from Ishida before he went God Mode, but at the same time Ishida has improved since then. Now in God Mode, Ishida speedblitzs Mayuri in the most ridiculous of ways. If Ichigo has any speed advantage over God Mode Ishida then it is nothing worth mentioning, no where near enough to simply speedbltz Ishida and one shot him as you're suggesting. I also don't know how you got the idea that base Ichigo is faster than Ishida though lol.

3.) God mode Ishida is capable of absorbing spiritrons at an insane level to increase his power and considering that his speed suddenly increased after he went God Mode, i think its fair to assume his speed can also increase as well(debatable), so his potential in God Mode is almost without limit. To say that Ichigo would one shot Ishida in Bankai is to downgrade Ishida to a level below that of a Captain and last i checked God Mode Ishida owned a Captain named Mayuri.

1.) It doesn't matter if Baboon Cannon can knock out a captain, that's not the point I was trying to make. The point is that Renji smoked Ilforte and admits they were the around same level. That means people of the same level can still pwn each other if they put their all into it. So QFF Uryuu >> Mayuri is not the case. And your right Bankai Ichigo doesn't have an attack of that power, but uryuu has no defense at all. So the high attack power and shit defense even out when you talk about overall ability.

2.) Where is your proof that Uryu has improved his speed since then? And, where did you see QFF Uryu speedblizting Mayuri? Page plz. Also, Base Ichigo is faster than Uryu because Uryu is only as fast as Mayuri. Ichigo's base speed was just as fast as SS Byakuya. And last time I checked Byakuya is a good deal faster than Mayuri.

3.) Again, proof for this speed increase in QFF. Unless you can prove that Uryu is that much faster than Mayuri in QFF my point stands.

[Paragon]

1.) It doesn't matter if Baboon Cannon can knock out a captain, that's not the point I was trying to make. The point is that Renji smoked Ilforte and admits they were the around same level. That means people of the same level can still pwn each other if they put their all into it. So QFF Uryuu >> Mayuri is not the case. And your right Bankai Ichigo doesn't have an attack of that power, but uryuu has no defense at all. So the high attack power and shit defense even out when you talk about overall ability.

2.) Where is your proof that Uryu has improved his speed since then? And, where did you see QFF Uryu speedblizting Mayuri? Page plz. Also, Base Ichigo is faster than Uryu because Uryu is only as fast as Mayuri. Ichigo's base speed was just as fast as SS Byakuya. And last time I checked Byakuya is a good deal faster than Mayuri.

3.) Again, proof for this speed increase in QFF. Unless you can prove that Uryu is that much faster than Mayuri in QFF my point stands.

Say what? Did you see that fight? The moment Ishida went Final Form, Mayuri couldn't do a thing and he got completely and utterly owned. So yeah Ishida >> Mayuri. The logic you're using is that just because Ishida did not wipe Mayuri off the map like Renji did Ilforte that automatically means that Final Form Ishida is not superior to Mayuri which is nonsense. You also forget that Renji was provided with an opening due to his powers being released, he practically caught Ilforte completely off guard, so this example you're using to play down Final Form Ishida and the logic behind it is seriously flawed.

Oh right so you're under the impression that Ishida has not improved since the SS arc even though he went through training with his father. As for the scan of him speedblitzing Mayuri...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/125/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/125/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/125/10/

Notice how Mayuri couldn't react the moment Ishida went for his second attack? Yeah thats Mayuri being speedblitzed.

The scans provided is also enough proof that shows the clear increase in speed of Ishida since going Final Form.

[unseenbankai]

Bankai Ichigo wins for reasons previously stated.

I reckon the OP is taking about Ishida with Seele Schnieder when he says Jedi Ishida but in all honesty it doesnt really matter. Seele Schnieder may have some gd abilities but lets face it Ishida is hardly a swordsman is he.

[Lnrd]

1.) Say what? Did you see that fight? The moment Ishida went Final Form, Mayuri couldn't do a thing and he got completely and utterly owned. So yeah Ishida >> Mayuri. The logic you're using is that just because Ishida did not wipe Mayuri off the map like Renji did Ilforte that automatically means that Final Form Ishida is not superior to Mayuri which is nonsense. You also forget that Renji was provided with an opening due to his powers being released, he practically caught Ilforte completely off guard, so this example you're using to play down Final Form Ishida and the logic behind it is seriously flawed.

2.) Oh right so you're under the impression that Ishida has not improved since the SS arc even though he went through training with his father. As for the scan of him speedblitzing Mayuri...

3.) http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/125/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/125/09/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/125/10/

Notice how Mayuri couldn't react the moment Ishida went for his second attack? Yeah thats Mayuri being speedblitzed.

The scans provided is also enough proof that shows the clear increase in speed of Ishida since going Final Form.

1.) I know QFF Uryu is stronger than Mayuri, but not to the point where he could defeat current Ichigo.

2.) What training are you talking about? Last time I checked Ryuken merely restored his power. Unless you saw something the rest of BLEACH manga readers didn't.

3.) How is that speedblitzing Mayuri? Mayuri was clearly dodging the first arrow then he leaned back into a horizontal position. Where Uryu uses flying baboon legs to get closer while Mayuri is preoccupied and fire an arrow directly down at a leaning back Mayuri. The only thing those pages show is that Uryu's arrows are quick. The reason Mayuri couldn't react is because he's damn near laying down. When have you seen someone use a speed technique when there body is leaning back like that.

[TW501]

Ichigo would win.

[Darkmaterials]

Current Ichigo rapes Ishida, unless anyone wants to argue that Ishida can spar with unreleased Ulq...

[Soujirou]

Of Course Seele Schneider Ishida cant match current ichigo heheh, he just got a plot power up to high tier captain
but Pre-Grimmjow Bankai Ichigo Pre-Grimmjow and Seele Schneider Ishida would be quite a match.

and since this thread restricts Ishida to Seele Schneider..that is it.

But lets think for a sec, that goes to you who say that Ishida didnt improve at all since SS, Shikai Hitsugaya attacked Yammi, he shrugged the ice off and laughed, Hitsu needed at least Bankai to be able to harm Yammi, and if you remember, Hitsugaya is a Captain, now, at episode 343, a common and normal Ginrei Kojaku arrow brought Yammi to his knees and almost fully pierced his skin, while he can shot 1200/second,also, a Seele Schneider would surely leave Yammi crippled, or dead if it was a headshot.

Yeah not much of an improvement /sarcasm. Not to mention that now Ishida is able to flash steep from the ground to a distant and high pillar in just one go, that outclasses Ichigo's by far, even current Ichigo's Shunpo (which didnt show any improvement up to now)

[Darkmaterials]

But lets think for a sec, that goes to you who say that Ishida didnt improve at all since SS, Shikai Hitsugaya attacked Yammi, he shrugged the ice off and laughed, Hitsu needed at least Bankai to be able to harm Yammi, and if you remember, Hitsugaya is a Captain, now, at episode 343, a common and normal Ginrei Kojaku arrow brought Yammi to his knees and almost fully pierced his skin, while he can shot 1200/second,also, a Seele Schneider would surely leave Yammi crippled, or dead if it was a headshot.

I thought he used a seele schneider to attack Yammy, his normal arrows don't normally stay solid after they hit something.

Ichigo has been able to rapestomp Yammy since the arrancar arc anyways.


Yeah not much of an improvement /sarcasm. Not to mention that now Ishida is able to flash steep from the ground to a distant and high pillar in just one go, that outclasses Ichigo's by far, even current Ichigo's Shunpo (which didnt show any improvement up to now)

Ichigo doesn't rely on shunpo to fight and I doubt Ishida outclasses him by far because of one mid distance shunpo.

[kochito22]

Shunpo was Ichigo's entire strategy against Byakuya. Speed was all he had to rely on.

[Darkmaterials]

Depends whether you interpret it as shunpo or as Ichigos speed from bankai.

[Zero-sama]

The winner is Ishida if he is in God mode, that's how I see Ishida beating the hell out of Ichigo. He will rape Ichigo in ways not imagine, Final Form Quincy, is scary as hell, because he does not have a limit, remember Shinigamis have a limit, but Vaizards mmm... don't know their limit, yet, but God Mode or whatever you wanna call it, for me it is something that you don't wanna mess with, because you are gonna get pawned. Mayuri is a fine example.

Ishida is smarter and has more tricks up his sleeve than Ichigo. But if Ishida is not in god mode and fights Ichigo Bankai with Vaizard Mask, then maybe he can win against, Ishida, but like I stated before Ishida is smarter and knows Ichigo well, so he would plan ahead and maybe defeat him, with out his God Mode.

Ishida wins.

-Unless Hollow Ichigo comes out, that will be like a fight between an ant and a man. Hollow Ichigo is so fucking mysterious, that is a character not to play around with, because he will end up violating you.

[Darkmaterials]

The fight is between current Ichigo (with no mask) and current Ishida as far as I'm aware.

[Afrojack]

I don't see how Ishida flash-stepping to the top means he far outclasses Ichigo. Ichigo can flash step with Byakuya, Ishida was being kept-up with by Mayuri.

Also, I don't care how well Ishida knows Ichigo, Ichigo in bankai is too fast for him to form strats against anyway, seeing as Ichigo can change speed, direction, and tactics as easily as by thinking it. There is no trick that could save Ishida from GT or hyperspeed, unless he is now faster than Ulq and GJ and now has a shield that can block a force strong enough when resolved to defeat Byakuya's bankai.

QFF, yes, that would be an entirely different animal, but just regular Ishida against regular Ichigo would not be a hard decision IMO.

[Soujirou]

Ichigo can only Flashsteep a short distance per go, but can move at unmatched speed when running/flying, while Ishida can move very far with his, but when moving he is as fast as an average human, and even with his masterful spiritons manipulation ability, he doesn't seems to be able to fly like ichigo does, while, taking into account what he showed in the way to hm, he should he able to not only create a patch in the sky to stand im, but also hover around up and down.

And that arrow at Yammi back is definitively not a Seele Schineider, because if it was, Yammi would be dead, since a Seele Schinneider is much longer than what is shown there, long enough to pierce Yammi body completely, leaving both ends showing at each side of Yammi's body from that perspective, but yet it just showed the back end of it, therefore it is easy to point that thing as being a regular Ginrei Kojaku arrow and that it got some power on it since it pierced halfway through even it being just Ishida testing Yammi's Hierro Strength.

[Afrojack]

Ichigo in bankai can pretty much superman fly, like in chapter 317 and 318, at a much faster speed that Ishida, and he can shunpo faster as well. That would allow him to get close to Ishida and pretty much eliminate any advantage he has in distance because he'll just catch up.

Ichigo blocked every petal of Byakuya's bankai in an omnidirectional attack with hundreds of millions of blades using his movement speed and reflexes, so I don't think 1200 arrows a second would be too hard to handle until Ichigo gets in close and slices him up. Ishida also has no viable defense against GT, stored or fired IIRC.

[fourwalls]

QFF Ishida versus current Ichigo, I'd say that the match is undecided. I think that the God mode Quincy still has many potentials that were not yet showed. Having the connotation of "God" means something. I think if this match is going to happen, it will be an interesting one, but I still can't decide who will win.

On the other match, Ishida with seele schneider vs Ichigo (masked), Ishida will have no chance. He simply would be defeated. Vizard powers are just too strong. However, current Ishida vs Bankai Ichigo (unmasked) I think this would be quite a match as I see Ishida's current level now to be that of a low to mid-tier captain, most likely low. Though I would still say Ichigo would take this match since he can do a way with senbonsakura, then he can also manage 1200 arrows, and even if Ishida is quite fast, Bankai Ichigo has the speed leverage, and the correct point made by someone that Ishida doesn't have any defensive tools or power with him. He can only dodge attacks which I don't think Ichigo would have a problem with. The only advantage Ishida has here is his brains, that's if he can find time to use it.

[Lnrd]

^God Mode is a fan made term. So the connotation "God" means nothing when coming from fans. The real name is Quincy Final Form.

[xPyrox]

Ichigo, Ishida's strong but against Ichigo, I mean, even in god mode, he has no chance what so ever imo.

Sure he shot an arrow through the freaks bankai and the freak himself, thats all very nice and all, ichigo would simply dodge it and get Ishida with a getsuga.

Even just a bankai getsuga > Ishida.
Hell, a shikai getsuga > jedi ishida.

[Starzen]

Ishida will only get raped no matter what he does. so I go with Ichigo and also Ichigo wont need his bankai against the likes of ishida. and besides comparing mayuri to the likes of byakuya is a joke.

[Soujirou]

^ Sir, you are an idiot, i wont even comment this post of yours and hope that everyone else will have at least the bit of common sense required to disregard your post completely.

Oh yeah and the one who posted before you is one too.

And what the hell guys, how often does Brawn beats Brains in a shounen? in most of the cases the more resourceful one had the upper hand, just because it was not the case with DBZ, you choose to totally disregard one's intelligence, and im not even saying that Ishida would win but dammit, Ichigo is a fool and Ishida isn't, that's one big advantage and you people are ignoring it.

[Starzen]

here is a present for you. see ya kid.

[pumpkin13]

Hmmmm Personally I'm going to go with Ishida. Am I right in assuming this is Seele Scheider and cobweb bow Ishida not FFQ? Scheider giving the jedi lightsaber look...

Ishida's strengths lie with his meneuverability and range, and to a lesser extent his planning.

Against Bankai Ichigo his speed is null and voided, I see no demonstrations that show that Jedi Ishida is anywhere near as fast as Bankai Ichigo. Bankai Ichigo has the speed to be able to close ranks with Ishida, then when he does he has the advantage as he has a sword and Ishida is primarily bow based, even sheider is actually an arrow although it can be used as a sword. Tensa Zangetsu vs. scheider, if you ask me, Bankai Ichigo has the power to overwhelm it.

If Ishida has the time to perform his silver tube pentagram set up, the perhaps he can lure Ichigo into it for a damage hit, but I don't think it would take Ichigo down, he'd still have the power to overwhelm Ishida in close combat.

[Szarlej]

Ichigo's advantage is more raw strenght and speed based bankai. But on the other hand he can't use properly his bankai, he is always attacking like berserker, without much planning.

Ishida is pretty fast, not as fast as Ichigo in bankai, but has a far greater tactics skills. His silver tubes should be handy, to bind or fool Ichigo.

[Feranor]

Bankai Ichigo would rape current Uryuu. He's simply superior in almost every aspect by far. Being able to deflect all of Senbonzakura shows that he wouldn't have problems deflecting ~1200 weaker projectiles. Being able to keep up with unreleased GJ (not using Vizard) also makes him much faster. He also was able to slice off Yammy's arm in a single swing, so his destructive power with standard attacks is also higher. GT would be overkill.

A ranged fighter that can't keep his distance is helpless.

Final Form Uryuu is completely different though. He oneshot both Mayuri and his massive Bankai and also speedblitzed them quite obviously. Add his new tools (new bow, Seelenschneider) to that and I think Ichigo wouldn't stand much of a chance without his mask.

[Lnrd]

Bankai Ichigo would rape current Uryuu. He's simply superior in almost every aspect by far. Being able to deflect all of Senbonzakura shows that he wouldn't have problems deflecting ~1200 weaker projectiles. Being able to keep up with unreleased GJ (not using Vizard) also makes him much faster. He also was able to slice off Yammy's arm in a single swing, so his destructive power with standard attacks is also higher. GT would be overkill.

A ranged fighter that can't keep his distance is helpless.

Final Form Uryuu is completely different though. He oneshot both Mayuri and his massive Bankai and also speedblitzed them quite obviously. Add his new tools (new bow, Seelenschneider) to that and I think Ichigo wouldn't stand much of a chance without his mask.

Agreed with everything, but that speedblitzing never happened.:amused:

[dyne]

that was in the soul society, he absorbed the spiritual particles and essentially he only won b.c nemu gave him the antidote.

[Szarlej]

Mayuri too survived by plotkai.

[Lnrd]

^No he survived because he's the type of mad scientist that alters his body. That's not plotkai.

[Szarlej]

If Ishida would hit him in head, he'd be done.

[Spectre]

Jedi Ishida, you mean wielding a Seele Schneider? Then Ishida might have a chance. Cause the SS is vibrating so fast, i think it can cut through Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu! But of course, Ichi has a chance of winning too! He got his speed and Getsuga Tenshou!

[pumpkin13]

Bankai Ichigo would rape current Uryuu. He's simply superior in almost every aspect by far. Being able to deflect all of Senbonzakura shows that he wouldn't have problems deflecting ~1200 weaker projectiles. Being able to keep up with unreleased GJ (not using Vizard) also makes him much faster. He also was able to slice off Yammy's arm in a single swing, so his destructive power with standard attacks is also higher. GT would be overkill.

A ranged fighter that can't keep his distance is helpless.

Final Form Uryuu is completely different though. He oneshot both Mayuri and his massive Bankai and also speedblitzed them quite obviously. Add his new tools (new bow, Seelenschneider) to that and I think Ichigo wouldn't stand much of a chance without his mask.

1200 arrows divided into Ishida's reiatsu is going to provide each arrow with more reiatsu than several million petals divided among Byakuya's reiatsu. Each one of those 1200 arrows will have more power behind it than each one of those several million petal blades.

If Seele Scheider can cut through Cirucci's blade wings, it's going to cut through Ichigo's skin like a hot knife through butter. Or alternatively; a lightsaber ^_^

And Ishida's skill as a tactician cannot be downplayed. Ichigo is predictable, he will almost certainly charge into close combat, Ishida can use that against him.

[Soujirou]

Pumpkin, but just you wait, soon Byakuya fanboys will come and bash you saying that Byak is so cool and badass that a fingersnap by him is stronger than 1200 arrows per second by Ishida

Intelligence have always been a big plus in any manga series and Ishida has shown to be much better at planning during battles, since Ichigo never uses strategy at all, all he do is charge at his enemy like a madman, almost always attacking from the front, and launching a GT when cornered, so overall, unless he impress me with some reasoning and tries to find a weak point in Ulquiorra fighting style instead of just getting more powerful or learning a new tech, ill still picture him as a brainless berserker just like Kenpachi.

[Darkmaterials]

1200 arrows divided into Ishida's reiatsu is going to provide each arrow with more reiatsu than several million petals divided among Byakuya's reiatsu. Each one of those 1200 arrows will have more power behind it than each one of those several million petal blades.

I thought Quincy had pretty much no reiatsu.
But yeah, taking into account the reiatsu Ishida channels, each arrow should be stronger than each of Byakuyas petals.


If Seele Scheider can cut through Cirucci's blade wings, it's going to cut through Ichigo's skin like a hot knife through butter. Or alternatively; a lightsaber ^_^

Yeah, but Ichigo can dodge/block it.


And Ishida's skill as a tactician cannot be downplayed. Ichigo is predictable, he will almost certainly charge into close combat, Ishida can use that against him.

How? If Ichigo gets close Ishida is pretty much dead.
Keeping at a distance is Ishida's only chance and I doubt he'd be able to do that when he's fighting someone as fast as Ichigo.


Pumpkin, but just you wait, soon Byakuya fanboys will come and bash you saying that Byak is so cool and badass that a fingersnap by him is stronger than 1200 arrows per second by Ishida

Dude, a blink from Byakuya (=3) is stronger than god mode Ishida.


Intelligence have always been a big plus in any manga series and Ishida has shown to be much better at planning during battles, since Ichigo never uses strategy at all, all he do is charge at his enemy like a madman, almost always attacking from the front, and launching a GT when cornered, so overall, unless he impress me with some reasoning and tries to find a weak point in Ulquiorra fighting style instead of just getting more powerful or learning a new tech, ill still picture him as a brainless berserker just like Kenpachi.

I doubt Ishida would have any time to think up a strategy.
Ichigo is becoming a better fighter as the manga progresses, grabbing Ulq's hand and holding the GT in his sword as he attacks are examples of that I think.

[pumpkin13]

They can come and fanbash as much as they want but it still doesn't change this:

(K, im going to be aweful and use DB style powerlevels for a mo)

Lets say Byakuya really is as amazing as the fanboys think he is, and has a PL of 100,000 compared to Ishida's puny PL of 500 (I purposefully threw it way out of proportion, if Bya is 100k Ishida currently is probably around 75,000). So:

Byakuya: 100,000 and has 2-3mil petals
Ishida: 500 and has 1200 arrows.

100,000 between 2,000,000 is 0.05

500 between 1200 is 0.416r

So even if Byakuya's PL is as outrageously overblown as that, Ishida STILL has more power to every arrow than Byakuya has to every petal. Simple as that. Come fanboys, feast on your own demise.

[Darkmaterials]

^ We don't know their power levels...

It's irrelevant anyway because Ishida doesn't use his reiatsu, he channels it from around him.

[pumpkin13]

@ first point: I was being theoretical

@ Second point: True, so theoretically he has an infinite amount of power to channel into his battle, especially in as rich a spirit world as either SS or HM. If in the real world he'd be quite handicapped by the lack of spirit particles.

[Darkmaterials]

Lets just say an arrow from ishida > A petal from Byakuya and leave it at that...

[pumpkin13]

I concur.

[Afrojack]

But they're not so much more powerful that Ichigo couldn't block them anyway, and it would still be stupidly easy because there's only 1200 compared to several million.

[Feranor]

I wasn't trying to say that a single petal is as strong as a single arrow; there are two separate issues.

The first one is power. I don't think the arrows from base form Uryuu are so strong that Ichigo couldn't deflect them with a standard swing from his sword.

The second one is that Ichigo is obviously capable of reacting to a far, far higher number of projectiles (Senbonzakura Kageyoshi) going at an argueably higher speed (they were faster than Bankai Ichigo, which I don't think is true for Uryuu's arrows).

[pumpkin13]

The petal waves didn't look like they were moving that fast. Initial bankai Ichigo completely ripped them out with his speed.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/163/01/
Look at how little further the petals have progressed in between the time Ichigo's there and he disappears.

It all depends on whether you believe after having gotten used to his reiatsu that he's back at that blitzingly fast pace, or whether after his bones started creaking and he got slower that he's had to work his way slowly back up from that degeneretated state and still hasn't regained that blitzing speed.

Personally I think Ishida's arrows move faster that those petals though.

[Feranor]

Yeah, but the speedblitzing was his Shunpo, not his standard movement speed, at least that's how it seems to me.

Additionally, the scan you posted was when Byakuya was still underestimating Ichigo. He increased his petals' speed afterwards:

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000107292/14.jpg

[pumpkin13]

ah true I stand corrected.

However with the power side of the dispute, does Ishida not possess the ability to change the strength and power of his arrows? Like instead of firing 1200 arrows he could fire 60 much more powerful arrows, each one taking substantially more powerful swings or effort to knock away/block and as Ichigo's doing that Ishida immeditately hieryenkaku's behind Ichigo seele sheider in hand. Ishida can also now curve and control the paths of his arrows, so he could send three or four past Ichigo making him think that he missed completely (let's face it, even despite recent chapters Ichigo is not the sharpest knife in the drawer) then bring them back around in a few seconds once he's thought he's cleared them. Ishida attacks with scheider or some other attack in such a way that makes Ichigo dodge in a certain direction, straight into the path of the arrows as they come back round.

Just possible theories, I do agree that generally Ichigo has Ishida beat.

[Afrojack]

If he lowered it that much, Ichigo wouldn't have to stand around and block each one, and he'd likely just shunpo behind Ishida and kill him. As a matter of fact, I can't see him not doing that whether Ishida fires any arrows or not.

[Seanc]

Ichigo. If he blitzes him Ishida doesn't stand a chance.

[Gohan]

Bankai Ichigo should be able to easily handle "Jedi" Ishida if it comes to a close quarters sword fight. If it was a long range fight Ishida would have an advantage but Ichigo should have no problem closing the gap between them with the speed he has while in bankai. Ichigo takes this one.

If you were talking about the Ishida that was fighting in SS, aka "God Mode" then I think Ishida would take it.

[smacharia8]

^ Assuming he can close the deal in a couple minutes, which is about how much time he'll get to use the temporary boost in power. Which is just not possible with Ichigo's speed. Plus I bet he can't fire as many arrows as he can with the certified Quincy bow.

[OminousG]

^ Assuming he can close the deal in a couple minutes, which is about how much time he'll get to use the temporary boost in power. Which is just not possible with Ichigo's speed. Plus I bet he can't fire as many arrows as he can with the certified Quincy bow.very good point here. Ishida could stand an entertaining chance for about 10min at best maybe