Sage Mode Jiraiya vs. Sage Mode Naruto : Changed Stipulations, Read 1st Post

[Lnrd]

Who would win?

EDIT: Added Conditions

Location: Myobokuzan

Sage Mode Jiraiya


Ma and Pa can't be used and aren't near the battlefield.
Infinite amount of Sage Chakra


Sage Mode Naruto


Infinite amount of sage chakra.

[Starzen]

J-man since his sage mode comes both ma and pa to boot along with the fact that those 3 know everything there is to know about naruto. And besides after 5min my boy naruto will be automatically screwed.

[Paragon]

Why would Ma and Pa help Jiraiya when Naruto would also be in sage mode? You might as well forget about them being used in this fight. Also whats this about Naruto being automatically screwed after 5 minutes? Please elaborate. Cause last i checked Naruto's Sage Mode > Jiraiya's sage mode.

[Savage]

i think he meant that naruto can only stay in sage mode for 5 minutes..

[Paragon]

I don't think he has a limit of 5 minutes...unless i missed it being said somewhere in the manga. O_o Although the earlier stages of the fight with Pain would contradict it. -__-

[Savage]

i remember something about him running out of sage chakra after 5 minutes.. that's why he needed the clones.. i'm not sure about it though, i'll go check the manga..

here's the 5min reference..
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/14/

[zeocloud]

in this fight Naruto would win, he surpassed Jiraiya and now he can throw his Rasen-Suriken and on top of that he has strength that most likely more than Tsunade.

[Paragon]

i remember something about him running out of sage chakra after 5 minutes.. that's why he needed the clones.. i'm not sure about it though, i'll go check the manga..

here's the 5min reference..
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/14/

Oh nice, well in that case Jiraiya may take this. o_o

[Seanc]

It would be close. But I think Jiraiya would prevail because he has more experience. Plus he could do that genjutsu which Naruto is weak against.

[pumpkin13]

What's to say he can't do exactly what he did against Pain with the clones gathering natural energy?

[Goroth]

Probably Jiraiya, having a bit more experience in saga mode, he should be able find the cliches quickly and execute some monster moves.

[Paragon]

What's to say he can't do exactly what he did against Pain with the clones gathering natural energy?

He'd need Ma and Pa to summon them.

[NAM1011]

Not if they were just chilling in the background somewhere. They do not necessarily have to be on another plain of reality.

I think that Naruto's sage mode is far stronger than Jiraiya's. However, Jiraiaya would win due to the amount of jutsus he knows. However, if it was just a fist fight in Sage mode Naruto would beat his ass.

[Lnrd]

I say Naruto would win because he did take out like 5 of Pain's bodies by himself. (Making at Pain absorb the Sage Chakra was pure genius) While Jiraiya had took out 3 only because Ma and Pa were there. Also with the fact that Pa said Naruto surpassed Jiraiya. (I'm pretty sure he knows the extent of both of their powers in Sage Mode, so the claim he made is valid imo.) And, because Naruto has mastered Sage Mode, to a degree far surpassing that of Jiraiya. I think I'd put my money on Naruto.

[NAM1011]

Jiraiya still has all of the jutsus he knows. Naruto barely has any jutsu. Also, someone said Genjutsu would work on Naruto and he is really bad at getting out of it.

[knocky]

Jiraiya would go all out and buger him up

[Savage]

buger him up.. lol does that even mean anything?

[Paragon]

I say Naruto would win because he did take out like 5 of Pain's bodies by himself. (Making at Pain absorb the Sage Chakra was pure genius) While Jiraiya had took out 3 only because Ma and Pa were there. Also with the fact that Pa said Naruto surpassed Jiraiya. (I'm pretty sure he knows the extent of both of their powers in Sage Mode, so the claim he made is valid imo.) And, because Naruto has mastered Sage Mode, to a degree far surpassing that of Jiraiya. I think I'd put my money on Naruto.

Difference is Naruto was given intel on Pain and each of his bodies' abilities whilst Jiraiya had zero intel when he faced Pain yet he was still able to wipe out three bodies.

[Lnrd]

I thought Naruto was only given intel about God Realm's attraction and replusion abilities. So that's not really a huge help. Naruto killed all the rest of the Pains by ability and cunning intellect. And again, Ma and Pa killed 3 Pains, not Jiraiya.

[Paragon]

I thought Naruto was only given intel about God Realm's attraction and replusion abilities. So that's not really a huge help. Naruto killed all the rest of the Pains by ability and cunning intellect. And again, Ma and Pa killed 3 Pains, not Jiraiya.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-431-page-12.html

He was given intel on more than just God Realm Pain. Ma and Pa helped Jiraiya, but then Naruto was also aided by a load of frogs and he had valuable inte, something Jiraiya did notl. Naruto's advantage against Pain was far greater than that of Jiraiya's.

[Lnrd]

Okay I see what your saying. But, do we take Pa's claim that Naruto surpassed Jiraiya as an indication of who would win in this fight? Because I think so.

[Paragon]

I think overall Naruto's Sage Mode is superior to that of Jiraiya's without a doubt, but the whole having his Sage Mode run out in 5 minutes was like a bomb and very contradicting :'( If Naruto can win this before his Sage Mode runs out though then he'd definitely win this.

[Infinitekaos]

This was a tough decision for me. I picked Naruto but Jiraiya does have a ton more jutsu and battle experience. However, Naruto's Sage Mode is in fact stronger than Jiraiya's. Since he has mastered sage mode he is stronger whilst using it.

And as long as Naruto has his Bunshin's, he can go at least 15 minutes against Jiraiya. Ma and Pa aren't needed to summon them, Naruto just had Pa summon him because he was kind of busy with God Realm.

It is close but I gave a slight edge to Naruto.

[djray]

i dont think jiraiya would allow him to summon another clone nor allow him to setup for a rasenshuriken but im sure we could expect something inventive from the worlds #1 most surprising ninja...i think jiraiya would win this w/ his extensive jutsus like frog silouette swamp of the underworld

[eternio]

um, im pretty sure it said somewhere that he could only last 5min cause of the jutsu's that he uses. the rasenshuriken is more then likely about 5x as taxing as anything ero-senin had up his sleave....plus the range on it is insane. naruto has shown to be faster and stronger( which in naruto isnt everything). he also mastered the sage form. mastered. as in knows everything. jiraiya stil looked like a toad somewhat showing that he hadnt perfected it. and the frog genutsu needs ma and pa...which naruto has access to as well.

in the end though, the name of the series is naruto. yeh, that kinda says he is always gonna be able to win in one way or another.

[Gohan]

I voted for Naruto because he is supposed to be the "chosen one." And in theory Jiraya needs Ma and Pa to use Sage mode while Naruto doesn't shows that he is more skilled with it though Jiraya might have more jutsu's up his sleeve I don't think he would be able to keep up with Naruto. And since Jiraiya is allowed the use of Ma and Pa to engage Sage mode then Naruto should be able to use the aid of Ma and Pa to increase his Sage mode time to 15 minutes through shadow clones.

[Spectre]

Jiraiya's Sage Barrier knocks out Naruto for good!! And there's his Super-Odama Rasengan and Sage Art: Deep Frier and a whole lot of techniques to make Naruto cry!!

[arishkegal]

Jiraiya's Sage Barrier knocks out Naruto for good!! And there's his Super-Odama Rasengan and Sage Art: Deep Frier and a whole lot of techniques to make Naruto cry!!

Naruto may counter that with a pervy jutsu where he turns into a girl, then do the clone jutsu...:popcorn:

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I say Naruto, since it was said that Naruto surpassed both Minato and Jiraiya in Senjutsu. Jiraiya knows more jutsu, that's true, but Naruto still has some jutsu that can beat Jiraiya, like the Rasen Shuriken and, like the guy above me said, the Sexy Jutsu and the Harem no Jutsu (Harem no Jutsu is the one where he combines the Sexy Jutsu with Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu, so there's a difference). Jiraiya is week against that, so it'd be a good distraction. Then he could summon a Shadow Clone to get the Natural Energy it'd gathered and reenter Sage Mode. And besides, I think Naruto would only have to have the clone hidden somewhere nearby, and have it release the jutsu so that Naruto would get the chakra back, along with the Natural Energy (Kage Bunshin no Jutsu splits the chakra evenly amongst the clones, so Naruto would also get back the chakra that the clone had).

Also, guys, it's not like it's only Naruto who has the five minute time limit. It's a set time limit for Sage Mode itself. That's the drawback to using it, which is why you need Ma and Pa Frog on your shoulder: so that they can gather Natural Energy for you so you don't have to sit still during a fight. Proof: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/420/12/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/420/13/, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/420/14/.

Edit: Also, Fukusaku said Naruto had learned most of the Frog Katas and Sage Techniques (at that time, only "to some degree," but I'm sure that, before he went to Konoha, he'd already perfected them). So Naruto probably also knows the Sage Barrier technique, and also, don't forget that Naruto used the Ultimate Rasengan against Pain, which means that Jiraiya isn't the only one who knows it.

[lurch]

naruto has more control over sage mode.
Jariya is not going to be distracted in a real fight as easily by the perv techniques.
Naruto has better moves and creativity but jariya has more experience and most likely a better array of moves than naruto.
Naruto would win
But his dad would kick his ass in a yellow sage flash IMO

[Bankai - Ichigo]

naruto has more control over sage mode.
Jariya is not going to be distracted in a real fight as easily by the perv techniques.
Naruto has better moves and creativity but jariya has more experience and most likely a better array of moves than naruto.
Naruto would win
But his dad would kick his ass in a yellow sage flash IMO

Didn't you hear what I said? It has already been mentioned in the manga Naruto had mastered Senjutsu and had surpassed both Minato and Jiraiya in that area. Senjutsu means "Sage Arts," so that means that Naruto also knows all of the Sage Techniques that Jiraiya and Minato may have learned. Sage Mode is just the more powerful battle form of a Frog Sage, and Sage Techniques are more effective if used while in Sage Mode. That being said, Jiraiya obviously would definitely lose to Naruto. Minato might have an easier time because of the Hiraishin no Jutsu and the Shunshin no Jutsu, so I'm not sure who'd win there.

And about the Sexy Jutsu and the Harem no Jutsu, remember that Jiraiya is a pervert. It doesn't matter if it's an actual fight, if Jiraiya is weak against it, then he's weak against it; period. So all Naruto would have to do is use one of those, and Jiraiya would be distracted. I'd recommend the Harem no Jutsu though, since that combines the Sexy Jutsu with the Tajuu Kage Bunshin, meaning there will be about a thousand sexy chicks there for Jiraiya to contend with.

And besides, as long as Naruto can keep three Sage Mode Shadow Clones of his nearby and hidden well enough that Jiraiya can't see them, Naruto should be OK.

[paradise_found]

i thought this would be a little more self evident than everyone here is making it?

sage jaraiya = killed by pain.
sage naruto = killing pain.

ta-DA!

[B_K_E]

i thought this would be a little more self evident than everyone here is making it?

sage jaraiya = killed by pain.
sage naruto = killing pain.

ta-DA!

Jaraiya didn't know any of pain's attacks or who he was or anything when he went in and fought.

Naruto found out by the Tsunade's slug that told him what each one of the Pain's used. The slug found out by being with the others while the other Pain's fought, so Naruto already knew what he was going up against.

[Lnrd]

^Agreed people forget that. But, I'm still leaning towards Naruto.

[B_K_E]

Same, even though Jaraiya pretty much went in there blind without knowing what Pain's abilities were, I still think Naruto uses sage mode better than him. Even when the Toad was training Naruto he said that he would surpass Jaraiya, since Naruto when he gained Sage mode, he didn't have even a slight appearance as Jaraiya when he went into Sage mode.

[Nephi]

I voted for naruto. The reasons were already mentioned by "Bankai - Ichigo" :)

[crisis point]

naruto has more control over sage mode.
Jariya is not going to be distracted in a real fight as easily by the perv techniques.
Naruto has better moves and creativity but jariya has more experience and most likely a better array of moves than naruto.
Naruto would win
But his dad would kick his ass in a yellow sage flash IMO

I agree with this totally. I don't care if it says that Naruto surpassed 4th in sage arts, Minato's non sage techs are super special awesome. Of course as of yet there are still meant to be techs Naruto hasn't used so we really can't tell.

[B_K_E]

This is just a random question, but was Naruto's father as good as Naruto with the shadow-clone jutsu?

[punni]

Naruto wouldnt be able to defend himself against the jutsus a drugged Jiraiya used against Oroichimaru aside from evading. And all of Naruto's jutsus take aeons to power up and Jiraiya isnt arrogant or naive enough not to be wary or to fall easily for shadow clone distractions.


just my 2 cents

[Savage]

This is just a random question, but was Naruto's father as good as Naruto with the shadow-clone jutsu?

it was never mentioned.. but i doubt it.. Naruto became good at using shadow clones because he had insane amounts of chakra..

[samir12]

Naruto wouldnt be able to defend himself against the jutsus a drugged Jiraiya used against Oroichimaru aside from evading. And all of Naruto's jutsus take aeons to power up and Jiraiya isnt arrogant or naive enough not to be wary or to fall easily for shadow clone distractions.


just my 2 cents

Well naruto was able to withstand peins shinra tensei (or whatever its called)

[aryn]

I'm going to have to go with Jiraiya on this.

Mostly on the experience level and the possibility that he could overwhelm Naruto with multiple ninjutsu and genjutsu.

I think the pain fight is a bit hard to use as a bench mark as it seemed that most of the pain bodies stood around to get hit or beaten. Not to say Naruto couldn't handle it, it just felt like very little synergy was going on with the pain bodies during his fight with Naruto.

I think Jiraiya would keep Naruto on his toes and constantly on the move and not allow for enough time to prepare a proper attack. For the most part, Jiraiya knows most of Naruto's tricks while the flipside Naruto barely scratches the surface when it comes to Jiraiya's arsenal of abilities. Again not saying Naruto would lose for any lack of strength, but simply overcome by experience and number of "tools" Jiraiya has at his disposal.

[Lnrd]

**Updated conditions**

After seriously rethinking the current situacion of the manga. I won't believe that Naruto, who was just A-Class, is now high-tier S-class level. It just doesn't add up atm. I understand he's the "child of prophecy", but he can barely use the wind element. If Naruto has already surpassed two high-tier S-class ninjas, that means Madara and Hashirama was/are on a level higher than high-tier S-class. Because Minato just stated that Naruto would need a special power to fight with Madara. Him saying that automatically states Sage Mode isn't enough to beat him.

On-topic: I'm going back to J-man. Even though Naruto's sage mode surpasses that of Jiraiya's. Base Jiraiya far surpasses Base Naruto. I don't believe the gap in between those two respective sage mode forms is enough equalize the gap between their base forms. (Yet alone put Naruto above.) Base Jiraiya was miles ahead of him.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Yeah, the above post is right. I agree completely. But Naruto still has more chakra than Jiraiya, and he's also learned all of the Sage Techniques he came across. Just because they haven't shown him learning them doesn't mean he never learned them. Remember, they didn't exactly most of Naruto's Sage Training, only parts of it. They never showed him learning the techniques, and I'm sure Fukusaku had Naruto master them.

[Lnrd]

Yeah, the above post is right. I agree completely. But Naruto still has more chakra than Jiraiya, and he's also learned all of the Sage Techniques he came across. Just because they haven't shown him learning them doesn't mean he never learned them. Remember, they didn't exactly most of Naruto's Sage Training, only parts of it. They never showed him learning the techniques, and I'm sure Fukusaku had Naruto master them.
But when using sage mode personal chakra levels has nothing to do with it except balancing the equation out. I do think Naruto has learned some sage techniques, but I don't think he could have learned a lot of them during his short training time. Still, I put Sage Naruto just below Sage Jiraiya. If he can get just a bit stronger in his base form, I'll painfully put him past Jiraiya.

EDIT: I just feel he got to this level too fast.

[B_K_E]

Yeah, the above post is right. I agree completely. But Naruto still has more chakra than Jiraiya, and he's also learned all of the Sage Techniques he came across. Just because they haven't shown him learning them doesn't mean he never learned them. Remember, they didn't exactly most of Naruto's Sage Training, only parts of it. They never showed him learning the techniques, and I'm sure Fukusaku had Naruto master them.

Don't forget in the manga they showed Naruto head to the fields while the Old Toad was asleep, and showed Naruto getting ready to train in the fields. Unless i'm mistaken and thats when he was training for the Rasen-Shuriken. There's some proof of them not showing Naruto training, or learning new techniques on his own.

I just feel he got to this level too fast.

Well Naruto did jump into the Sacred Oil all the way, and that probably helped him faster, since I think Jaraiya only did a little bit of Oil, but they never stated that, so i'm just guessing here.

[Lnrd]

Well Naruto did jump into the Sacred Oil all the way, and that probably helped him faster, since I think Jaraiya only did a little bit of Oil, but they never stated that, so i'm just guessing here.

No I'm not bothered that he mastered sage mode, I'm bothered that he has "supposedly" surpassed his father and godfather in like 15 chapters when he was nowhere near their level before. Not only that, he did it by going from A-rank to high tier S-rank. You don't see the problem with that?

Now if he surpassed their level through Kyuubi training that's a different stroy.

[B_K_E]

Most of the time he usually masters things really fast with the Kyuubi's chakra to help him, like how he learned Rasengan in like a week, when it took the Fourth like a year or more I beleive.

How fast he masters techniques doesn't really phase me or bother me, i'm just glad we don't have to sit through more pages waiting for him to master them. Although, I did enjoy the session when he was learning his wind techniques and turning that waterfall into two, that was pretty enjoyable.

[TW501]

My understanding was that Naruto had a greater capacity for sage mode, and thus is stronger while in it.

[tequilla_boom]

my thoughts exactly! naruto for win .

[Cloud Sykes]

Well, judging their sage modes by how they performed against the same enemy (the peins) Jiraiya died and Naruto destroyed them. So that speaks quite clearly for who has more power in sage mode.

Granted, Naruto had more intel on the Peins in general, but he destroyed two of them to herald his appearance and kept up a steady pace until he was left against god realm who he also defated with relative ease (he was able to immediately depart and confront Nagato after the battle)

So when all is said and done, Naruto destroyed all the Peins forms in one outing and Jiraiya barely managed to kill one before being killed himself. Comparing that it stands to reason that Naruto would come out well and truly on top.

It could be argued that Jiraiya knows Naruto's techniques and thus would have an advantage but even 'ma' and 'pa' didn't know about Naruto's improved rasen shuriken
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/03/

so that at the very least could catch Jiraiya by surprise and with the infinite sage mode there's no chance of Jiraiya using tactics to outlast Naruto's sage mode either

[Starzen]

frs would end this fight as j-man knows nothing about it and he would do what pein did against the first one. but otherwise I'll give this fight to j-man cos he knows more about sage mode period.

[RYUJINN-JACK]

Interesting.

Offensively. Jiraiya knows more jutsu(NOT 1000's lol) but the ultimate jutsu is rasengan.

Naruto wins with Rasenshuriken and cunning strategy.

Jiraiya is a Sannin yes, but Naruto is the son of the 4th and it shows.

[Rosh]

This is a tough one, I'd say Naruto although its very evenly matched.

[Yadomaru]

This is a tough one, I'd say Naruto although its very evenly matched.

Also my opinion.

[nuttychemist]

I have to say I'd give it to Naruto... while Jiraiya did know more jitsu... Naruto has passion, drive, talent and heart in spades... I feel that it would give him the edge... also the fact that Naruto can do sage mode without the help of ma & pa

[redfable]

i think naruto wins

[Houzukimaru]

Since theyre getting Infinite Sage Mode Chakra Naruto can just spam the hell out of Fuuton Rasen Shurikens and Jiraiya will have a hell of a time dealing with them

[x-Battousai-x]

Well, judging their sage modes by how they performed against the same enemy (the peins) Jiraiya died and Naruto destroyed them. So that speaks quite clearly for who has more power in sage mode.

Granted, Naruto had more intel on the Peins in general, but he destroyed two of them to herald his appearance and kept up a steady pace until he was left against god realm who he also defated with relative ease (he was able to immediately depart and confront Nagato after the battle)

So when all is said and done, Naruto destroyed all the Peins forms in one outing and Jiraiya barely managed to kill one before being killed himself. Comparing that it stands to reason that Naruto would come out well and truly on top.

It could be argued that Jiraiya knows Naruto's techniques and thus would have an advantage but even 'ma' and 'pa' didn't know about Naruto's improved rasen shuriken
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/432/03/

so that at the very least could catch Jiraiya by surprise and with the infinite sage mode there's no chance of Jiraiya using tactics to outlast Naruto's sage mode either

Pein said that if Jiraiya figured out his secret earlier, he would have been dead.

Naruto wins though. He might not have as many attacks but the ones he has are devastating.

[ashgray2]

Naruto will win, sage to sage battle. No doubt about it.
Naruto has the advantage since he can use the power of the tailed-beast even sage mode.
Combining the two powers makes him extremely dangerous.

_______
Video Games Coupon (http://www.videogamesbox.com), New Designs Laptop (http://www.laptopcomputersonsale.com)

[samir12]

As ashgray2 pointed out, Naruto was also able to use both sage and kyuubi chakra. We didn't see much of it but it is significant is kyuubi chakra > naruto's normal chakra,

Therefore kyuubi and sage chakra > naruto's normal and sage chakra

But we still need to see more of it, hopefully in his fight against Sasuke..

[Nikato]

Pein said that if Jiraiya figured out his secret earlier, he would have been dead.

Naruto wins though. He might not have as many attacks but the ones he has are devastating.

Sure he "said" that, but who knows. Jiraya had trouble against them even before that. Naruto literally whipped their asses, more then once. THEN he figured out what was going on and proceeded to whip more ass.

Besides, Naruto's main weakness was his amount of chakara. Infinite Sage mode? He would burn anything down easy! Imagine mass shadow clones with Rasengans?

[ForexApet]

Hello. I think the post is really interesting. I am even interested in reading more. How soon will you update your blog?

[Lnrd]

:weird:

[ikkistorm]

naruto because hes able to store chakra in clones so wen he runs out then bamm just get some more chakra and hes in sage mode once more

[densetsu_eikyou]

If they both have infinite chakra wouldn't come down to techniques? I mean Naruto can and does use clones b/c he has a lot of chakra. He isn't the only one to know how to do that technique. Technique wise Jiraya would when since he knows more and all of naruto's except shriken rasengan. If he doesn't get hit by that he wins. As for Naruto being stated as stronger than Jiraya that means one of two things i think.1) he has more chakra. If that is the case then w/ infinite chakra that is irrelevant. or 2) he can make more powerful techniques than Jiraya. If that is the case Jiraya can't get hit by any of them like rasengan shurikan and since jiraya knows many more techniques Jiraya would win.

[btill9000]

I get the feeling that Jiraiya would drop a Genjutsu on Naruto, laugh and walk off.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Yeah, and that would make him win seeing as Naruto can't win against genjutsu, and it was also Jiraiya who told him that you have to stop, change, or disrupt your chakra flow to cancel a genjutsu, or get someone else to do it. And seeing as Fukusaku and Shima probably won't be used by either, Naruto can't depend on them to cancel the genjutsu either. But if he mastered the Kyuub's chakra, then I could see him getting the Kyuubi to release chakra into him to cancel the genjutsu.

Jiraiya does know more techniques, yes, but Naruto can handle Natural Energy better than Jiraiya can. Right now, with Sage Mode plus Kyuubi mode, Naruto would give Jiraiya a hard time.

Also, according to Yamato, Naruto's normal chakra is stronger than the Kyuubi's, which is why he can handle the Kyuubi's chakra in the first place. IMO, though, even if he hadn't said that, common dictates that Naruto shouldn't be able to handle a mass of chakra that has more mass and strength than his own normal chakra.

[gromzie]

Bankai - ichigo, reference on that? Last time i checked it was Naruto had strong chakra, not stronger than Kyuubi. Kyuubi is said to have the "ultimate chakra" in the early stages of the series.

Jiraiya got a lesser sage mode than Naruto, but he took out 3 Pains with ease, although thanks to Pa and Ma's illusion.

Jiraiya had to fight the Pains and figure out their abilities, Naruto didn't have to do so with a couple of em, also he didn't have to fight the Deva path for a while. Jiraiya had only 1 arm while fighting the 6 pains, although he killed one of them.

I'd say the odds were against Jiraiya incredibly much, while Naruto had them on his side, with Bunta, Ken, hiro and lots of knowledge of the pains, also only fighting 5 of them in the start.

Jiraiya would probably take this one as he is a more competent ninja and lots of experience, Pain was a bad matchup with that cheapshot-arm-ripping-surprise.

Oh, i'm both a Naruto & Jiraiya fan so i'm not picking eithers side, just that Jiraiya was clearly alot of stronger than Naruto, as of now, untill Naruto can handle his Sage Kyuubi mode.

IMO, though, even if he hadn't said that, common dictates that Naruto shouldn't be able to handle a mass of chakra that has more mass and strength than his own normal chakra.

Also this.

1. It's a manga universe ;)
2. Yes, because he has a seal, the point of jinchuriki is not to blow them up, but to make them able to utilize the chakra, therefor i guess not just some ordinary seal but one who works around making the user able to use the powerful chakra.
The fact that Naruto gets possesed after 4-tails proves this, the chakra is still overwhelming, but in lesser doses he can handle it. Just like dope tbh.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

The Fourth put two Seals on Naruto to hold the Kyuubi, by the way. It was designed to hold the Kyuubi in and let some of its chakra fuse with Naruto's so that he could use it and it also healed him, and the other part of the Seal, the Shiki Fuujin, is there to split the Yin and Yang charka, sealing the Darker Charka away (giving it to the Shinigami (God of Death), so that it stays in the Shinigami's stomach and fights the Yondaime's soul for all eternity--the Sandaime explained to Orochimaru that that's how it works), and only giving Naruto the Good Chakra, also sealing a part of himself into Naruto. He made it so that he'd appear in Naruto's consciousness and fix the Seal if it weakened to the point of Naruto going 8- or 9-tails.

Just some FYI.

And it was Yamato who told Naruto that his chakra is strong enough to let him handle the Kyuubi's chakra. It was when he tells him that he (Naruto) was the one who attacked Sakura, while in Four-tail Kyuubi mode. You should be able to find the page in either Onemanga.com or manga.bleachexile.com with that info.

[gromzie]

The Fourth put two Seals on Naruto to hold the Kyuubi, by the way. It was designed to hold the Kyuubi in and let some of its chakra fuse with Naruto's so that he could use it and it also healed him, and the other part of the Seal, the Shiki Fuujin, is there to split the Yin and Yang charka, sealing the Darker Charka away (giving it to the Shinigami (God of Death), so that it stays in the Shinigami's stomach and fights the Yondaime's soul for all eternity--the Sandaime explained to Orochimaru that that's how it works), and only giving Naruto the Good Chakra, also sealing a part of himself into Naruto. He made it so that he'd appear in Naruto's consciousness and fix the Seal if it weakened to the point of Naruto going 8- or 9-tails.

Just some FYI.

And it was Yamato who told Naruto that his chakra is strong enough to let him handle the Kyuubi's chakra. It was when he tells him that he (Naruto) was the one who attacked Sakura, while in Four-tail Kyuubi mode. You should be able to find the page in either Onemanga.com or manga.bleachexile.com with that info.

Well, did i mention anything regarding the seal? Or did i mention Naruto didn't have a strong chakra? That exactly what i wrote.

You said he had stronger chakra than the kyuubi, wich is a false statement, it's stated he also has a strong chakra, something along the lines Uchiha Madara is able to live to this day because of his extraordinarily strong chakra, something like that. Though it's not said it's stronger than the kyuubis, we don't know that.
The fact that he gets overwhelmed after 4-tails is proof that his chakra yet isn't stronger than the kyuubis, or his willpower, or whatever makes him able to subdue it so far, the type and number of seals the Yondaime did was to make Naruto able to use some of them chakra from the kyuubi, therefor helping him subdue the fox ( Well of course! ) Naruto does have a strong chakra, but not stronger than the Kyuubi, this was only regarding your statement regarding Narutos chakra. Can't believe it went this far.

Btw, i don't need any FYI, especially not from you who get things wrong from the manga.

IMO, though, even if he hadn't said that, common dictates that Naruto shouldn't be able to handle a mass of chakra that has more mass and strength than his own normal chakra.

This is what i commented, it's common sense what you say yes.

But
1. He can't handle the kyuubi chakra, hence the loss of control @ 4-tails.
2. The sealing techniques used is made for him to use the chakra, hence helping him subdue and draw chakra, instead of relying solely on chakra to subdue the kyuubi chakra.

That means; Narutos strong chakra + Yondaimes special seals = Naruto being able as of now, to control a portion of the kyuubi chakra.

[Unholy Confession]

naruto became awesome with shadow clones bc it use to be his worst jutsu but he practiced forever to get it right. Now he is the best shadow clone user there is. He can create tons of them bc of the mass amounts of chakra he possesses. there is a difference.

In the fight you have to give the advantage to naruto. Besides the fact that he is a more versatile ninja since he thinks totally out of the box, he has chakra levels that jiraiya just cant touch. Yes jiraiya has more experience and possibly more justsu's/attacks. But naruto has a decent amount of both and they are all hard hitting. fact is jiraiya just wouldn't be able to keep up. But if jiraiya was getting on naruto pretty bad, naruto combines sage mode and the fox's chakra and its game over. as much as i like jiraiya, naruto has moved up to a whole new league.

[Svoloch]

i remember something about him running out of sage chakra after 5 minutes.. that's why he needed the clones.. i'm not sure about it though, i'll go check the manga..

here's the 5min reference..
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/14/


its a 5 min reference cuz the clones were dying from overuse of the rasen shuuriken (he needs a clone to perform it). He'd then have to resync new clones if he wants to continue being in sage mode once he has used up his last clone for a tech that requires his clones ... other wise without clones to channel sage chakra like ma and pa did with jiraiya (since naruto's kyuubi rejects ma and pa) he can only maintain it for 5 minutes unless he put more clones on duty of channeling once the last clone is summoned and destroyed.

sage chakra is infinite but u must keep your focus to channel it ... in naruto's case its a little bit harder cuz he needs to use clones for channeling and for some of his stronger techs. IF ma and pa could fuse and not be interfered by the kyuubi then its a whole diff ball game. Then again clones are something he is alwways in control of so its a little more convenient.

[El Diablo]

it'll be a wierd fight, they probably would agree on using no toads, bit i would think it'll end with a win by Jiraiya because with the help of Pa and Ma, Naruto would have to combat a lot of versitile jutsu not including Rasengan.

[Svoloch]

it'll be a wierd fight, they probably would agree on using no toads, bit i would think it'll end with a win by Jiraiya because with the help of Pa and Ma, Naruto would have to combat a lot of versitile jutsu not including Rasengan.

Your statement made no sense .... first you said they would agree to not use ma and pa and then you said "with the help of ma and pa" ... wtf ???

[Soujiro Seta]

First off, if Jiraiya is unable to gain any assistance from Ma or Pa, he won't be able to fight in sage mode for a lengthy period of time, much like Naruto.

However, according to Pa, Naruto has mastered sage mode, unlike Jiraiya, and is able to use natural energy to its full potential. In addition, Naruto has solved his problem of his time limit by using his shadow clones, as demonstrated in his battle with Pain/Nagato.

Both Jiraiya and Naruto know the different forms of Rasengan when combining Sage Mode with it, as well as the other frog techniques, but Naruto has also perfected his own S-rank level jutsu; Rasenshuriken, which would also become a large problem for Jiraiya. He would burn out of Sage mode a lot faster because of the use of Rasenshuriken though, however he can use his clones. If he keeps 2 clones back for gathering Sage chakra, and 2 clones with him in battle, that's his limit. But, say he burns out of Sage mode, uses 1 clone to get back in it, he's then left with 2 clones in battle and 1 clone back for gathering Sage chakra. He's below his limit then, who's to sage he can't make an extra clone and leave that to gather Sage chakra too? He couldn't do that in his battle against Pein because his clones had to stay back at Myobokuzan, and it would take unnecerssary use of chakra to use the Reverse Summoning jutsu to send them back, and then later resummon them again. It's another tactic, and I'm sure Naruto could use it.

On top of that, Naruto has also developed some level of control over the Kyuubi within him, as shown in his confrontation with Nagato. Many people believe that Naruto's weakness would be genjutsu, however Jiraiya has only ever shown use of genjutsu with the assistance of Ma and Pa. Killerbee, the 8th Jinchuriki, also states that to break out of genjutsu, a second person is needed, but he was able to let his 8 tailed beast allow him to break out of the genjutsu which Sasuke had placed on him during their fight. It is now possible for Naruto to do the same with his Kyuubi against genjutsu.

Some may disagree that Naruto does not have such power to control the Kyuubi, since his chakra would be significantly lower, as well as in the past, Naruto lost himself to the Kyuubi after 3 tails. However due to the seal placed on by Yondaime and with his Sage chakra, Naruto has been able to manipulate some, if not all, of the Kyuubi's chakra within himself, since his meeting with his father.

Naruto doesn't have to go into the Bijuu chakra cloak to use the Kyuubi. He can use Sage mode to control the Kyuubi's chakra and allowing himself to have larger chakra levels. Sage chakra is still 2/3 normal chakra, Naruto still needs it.

Others are going to say that this is unrelated to Sage mode, and isn't part of the scenario: "Sage Mode Jiraiya vs. Sage Mode Naruto".
But it is, since as I mentioned before, part of the reason Naruto can now manipulate the Kyuubi's chakra (to an extent most likely) is because of Sage mode. Sage mode just gives him an additional option here.

[gromzie]

We don't know such things about the kyuubi yet, we should just assume the control over the kyuubi is what it have been untill other has been stated or clearly shown in the manga, it hasn't. The Fox-sage mode was probably some random powerup he got from the amazing resolve or killing intent, you can't possibly mean to take that into consideration? lol.

You speak as if Jiraiya and Naruto are the same but that Naruto has some sort of god-sage mode and imba rasenshuriken. Jiraiya has ALOT of ninjutsu at his disposal. Including rasengan. Naruto can't use his Kyuubi-sage yet, obviously, since it's not been shown.

And about genjutsu? Naruto has no control over kyuubi on that matter, sorry i don't know where the f*ck you got that from really. Although Jiraiya can't use any, so that doesn't matter.

And all this about Naruto mastering sage mode more than Jiraiya, well does that make him godmode? What about Pain, he didn't have sage mode, yet he beat Jiraiya, wow, how come? Well that's because sage mode doesn't automatically equal a win. Jiraiya takes this, HANDS DOWN untill Naruto can control that Kyuubi-sage mode and we see what his capable of, maybe not even then, i think Naruto needs a better array of ninjutsu in order to win this, Jiraiya can simply win on a lot of things, tactics, power, speed (maybe).

imo

[samir12]

Naruto can't use his Kyuubi-sage yet, obviously, since it's not been shown.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/04/

There you go, and heres another page http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/06/

He was able to resist being controlled by Nagato's chakra on that state, so he does have a high chance of resisting genjutsu aswell. He isn't able to control the Kyuubi but he is able to control the chakra, heck he was able to do this waaaay back in part 1(recall the fight with Neji and Gaara). So what makes you think can't use sage mode and fox's chakra together when he used it in the manga pages sent you?

[GeniusBob]

Naruto has hax plot armor. Of course he'd win.

[gromzie]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/04/

There you go, and heres another page http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/06/

He was able to resist being controlled by Nagato's chakra on that state, so he does have a high chance of resisting genjutsu aswell. He isn't able to control the Kyuubi but he is able to control the chakra, heck he was able to do this waaaay back in part 1(recall the fight with Neji and Gaara). So what makes you think can't use sage mode and fox's chakra together when he used it in the manga pages sent you?

What i meant was the same way he did vs Neji in the chunin exams, he can't use it by his own free will at any time, or do you have any proof to back that up?
What makes me know that he can't use it, is because it was a spur of the moment, he needs to learn and control that so he doesn't turn into a frog. It's another element he needs to control, Nature/his own/ kyuubi, a much more delicate balance is required and i doubt to thousand hells that he learned that in 3 pages without explanation or anything, he had trouble with just nature and his own chakra, that's why. And it's damn obvious.

[DEADPOOL]

Naruto's Sage Mode may had been said to be better (but wasn't shown), Jiraiya is still overall a superior ninja with too much intelligence, skill, experience, and jutsus.

[phantommaggot]

naruto, hes the main character... dur...

really tho, he has this knack for always winning. and learning during the fight.

i think because his sage mode is superior and thats what this is about then naruto wins.

if it was a non sage fight nartuo would be seriously pwnd

[Shining_Knight]

I remember reading somewhere that Sage and fox chakra's arent compatiable, that just throws a lot of your theories out of whack.

[CakeSpoon]

The toads & the fox aren't compatible. Naruto going both sage & kyuubi at the same time vs Pain shows that the chakra itself is compatible.

[Shining_Knight]

The toads & the fox aren't compatible. Naruto going both sage & kyuubi at the same time vs Pain shows that the chakra itself is compatible.

Guess I overlooked that...

[Revenge]

Naruto win this one. Pa frog once stated naruto surpass pervy sage.

[aastik01]

Naruto will win for sure!

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

I think that the gap in power is too big for Jiraiya to overcome. Sure Jiraiya is smart and all of that but so is naruto. The issue here would be is Jiraiya's intelligence enough to counter Naruto's power? I don't think it is because Naruto isn't dumb. It would be different if he had the same charge forth attitude like when he was a kid but he hasn't done that and should be the winner here

[pds]

Sheer power/will Naruto would take this, based on Jutsus/Abilites, I'd say Jiraiya. He would be able to bypass most of Narutos trick, and being his teacher he should know a lot about his weaknesses as well.

[GOD_OF_WAR]

Lol, do you seriously think that Naruto can take this? Jiraiya can just hide for 5 minutes, Sage Mode cannot last any longer, and then... you know what will happen to Naruto :)
And you talk about Naruto's power, but I cannot see that much of gap in their raw power. In versality/jutsus and experience, Naruto just pale in comparison to Jiraiya, so no... I can't see Naruto win this fight.

[CakeSpoon]

^ If you read the OP, both can stay in sage mode forever. So Jiraiya hiding won't matter.

The manga already said Naruto is stronger than Jiraiya.

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/Naruto/0/430/19

Jiraiya's variability should hold off Naruto for longer than his strength would suggest, but Sage Mode Naruto is a relentless attacking machine & one rasenshuriken would end most people.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Agree completely, though I think the toads only meant that Naruto has surpassed him in the Sage Arts. Overall, however, I'm sure he has a long way to go still. Like I said in another thread, Jiraiya was offered the position of Hokage, something Naruto still isn't close to becoming. He's ready as far as power and speed are concerned, but as far as leadership skills and leadership experience are concerned, he's still lacking.

But yeah, in a fight, I'm sure Naruto would beat him, granted he uses the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu (both the normal one and the Tajuu one), Henge no Jutsu, as well as Rasengan and Rasen Shuriken to their fullest/best he can and as creatively as he can. And since Lnrd has now stated in the first post that they both have infinite Sage Chakra, Naruto has an even greater advantage against him.