Kendo Kenpachi vs. Released Ulquiorra *READ THE STIPULATIONS BEFORE POSTING!!!*

[darkhole]

This is not a full fledged match between the 2, but rather, after seeing Ulquiorra take a seemingly now stronger VBankai Ichigo's getsuga tenshou head on and suffer no damage, how does everyone think Kendo Kenpachi's sword slash would fair against a Released Ulquiorra?

Should be a poll above.

[justin43]

In two words:

No better. One-shotting Noitora doesn't prove much when the gap of power between Noitora and Ulquiorra is very huge.

[Seanc]

^True dat. Plus Nnoitirra was already weakend before that.

[Rufix]

Ulquiorra crushes Kenpachi with ease:P

[Razvan_Asakura]

Kenpachi won't have time to react to released Ulqi. He is far more faster in his release state and his black cero is more stronger than the ones Nnoitra shot!

[Paragon]

I think some of you are missing the point of this thread:

This is not a full fledged match between the 2, but rather, after seeing Ulquiorra take a seemingly now stronger VBankai Ichigo's getsuga tenshou head on and suffer no damage, how does everyone think Kendo Kenpachi's sword slash would fair against a Released Ulquiorra?

Should be a poll above.

[darkhole]

No No No. Everyone knows Ulquiorra would win in a battle with Kenpachi. What I'm saying is that what would happen if Ulquiorra just stood there like he did with Ichigo and allowed Kenpachi to kendo slash him? How would Kenpachi fair against Released Ulquiorra's Hierro?

@Paragon: Thank You

[Razvan_Asakura]

hmm..it's an interesting thought here, I mean we will have to think closely on the details between GT and Zaraki's kendo slash. Because, now if GT turns out to be more powerful, then everything would confuse even more the users. because Nnoitra already stated his hierro is the strongest ... but could that be true? even stronger than the 2nd..1st..espada?


It's a two-sided subject...for now we can just pick one side and hope.
I dunno, for now I'll stay with released Ulquiorra. somehow I'll just pretend Nnoitra just acted cocky back then & that Ulqi's hierro is stronger.

[fakeobsession]

Ok,it goes like this...
Ichigo almost defeated Kenpachi ones...
(& he wasn't even using his Hollow's powers)
but Ulquiorra defeated Ichigo,too...
(without releasing his zan)
which lead to conclusion Ulquiorra >>>> Kenpachi.
I can accept the fact that Kenpachi showed new skills & aspects of his power in HM
but doesn't change that fact much.

[TW501]

I doubt that he could defeat Ulquiorra. Maybe wound him, but not defeat him.

[Yexley]

NNoitora also said he was the strongest Espada. Anything he says is lies imo. Unless we take the idea that full powered Bankai Vizard Ichigo's strongest attack is at least 10 times weaker than a normal Kenpachi slash then NNoitora was lying about having the strongest Hierro. GT leaves no mark on Ulquiorra and yet NNoitora gets a huge cut down his front ==> Nnoitora is lying or Zaraki has increased in strength at a much faster rate than Ichigo who has Bankai and a Vizard mask and who's main strength is supposed to be the speed at which he grows in strength according to Urahara and Aizen. He might cut him slightly but I doubt it would do much to actually hurt Ulquiorra.

[darkhole]

hmm..it's an interesting thought here, I mean we will have to think closely on the details between GT and Zaraki's kendo slash. Because, now if GT turns out to be more powerful, then everything would confuse even more the users. because Nnoitra already stated his hierro is the strongest ... but could that be true? even stronger than the 2nd..1st..espada?


It's a two-sided subject...for now we can just pick one side and hope.
I dunno, for now I'll stay with released Ulquiorra. somehow I'll just pretend Nnoitra just acted cocky back then & that Ulqi's hierro is stronger.

It all goes back to? Is Zommari really the fastest[Stark seemed incredibly fast]? Does Nnoitra really have the strongest hierro[Ulquiorra's Hierro seems incredibly strong]? or were those guys just talking out of their ass? I'd like to think that Zommari and Nnoitra were just Kubo's attempt to hype up the espada a bit so Zaraki and Byakuya could pwn them and regain a little bit of face that they lost in the SS arc (Mayuri as well).

Meh, Right now I'll say Kenpachi would at least scratch Ulquiorra, but I'm actually not to sure, which is why I created the thread.

[Razvan_Asakura]

It all goes back to? Is Zommari really the fastest[Stark seemed incredibly fast]? Does Nnoitra really have the strongest hierro[Ulquiorra's Hierro seems incredibly strong]? or were those guys just talking out of their ass? I'd like to think that Zommari and Nnoitra were just Kubo's attempt to hype up the espada a bit so Zaraki and Byakuya could pwn them and regain a little bit of face that they lost in the SS arc (Mayuri as well).

Meh, Right now I'll say Kenpachi would at least scratch Ulquiorra, but I'm actually not to sure, which is why I created the thread.

Yea, I guess it's all smoke and mirrors until the end comes and we find out the truth. Like I said, Ichigo's GT probably is a lot more destructive than Zaraki's kendo slash & that would most likely bring us to an idea that Ulquiorra won't loose this "match-up". Oh well..

[Yexley]

Nnoitora is proven to be a lying bitch. He claimed he was the strongest Espada when he is #5 and clearly a lot weaker than Ulquiorra. Ulquiorra can take hits better than Nnoitora imo unless someone can show me any proof to the contrary.

[NAM1011]

Well, proof that Kenpachi's kendo slash is stronger than Ichigo's GT can be seen in his fights with GJ. I mean granted Ichigo is a lot stronger now, but his GT move did not slice G almost in half. Yet, Kenpachi's kendo slash did a number on a released numero cinco Espada.

I say if Ulq let him hit him with the Kendo slash that it would injure him, but not enough to win the fight. Ulq is too fast for Zaraki, and would ultimately kill him.

[justin43]

Note that bankai Ichigo could cut Ulquiorra when he couldn't with mask a few hours ago. Ichigo only became stronger or able to use more reiatsu after the Grimmjow fight. Even then, Vichigo's GT couldn't cut Released Ulquiorra. Since GT can be charged with reiatsu and Ichigo's reiatsu is far stronger from the time when even mask couldn't do damage, we can say that Vichigo's GT > Kenpachi's kendo slash.

[xBanzai89]

I think it would damage him. Nothing that would seriously injure him though.

[Yadomaru]

I'd say best-case scenario, Ulquiorra gets a decent-size but shallow cut across his torso.
So minimum damage

[Delta]

We really have nothing to base any of our opinions on. We don't know exactly how Ulq's hierro compares to Nnoi's and how that compares to Grimm's. We don't know how Zaraki Kendo compares to Getsuga. Therefore we don't know how Kendo would affect Ulq. It may outright kill him, it may damage him a bit, or the Zanpaktou may just bounce right off.

[Hurr-Durr]

... Nnoitra shouted he was the strongest just before he died, might have been a morale shout, it could also be true in the sense he compared himself to other espada's of the same order, that would be all non Vasto lorde espada, thus making his statement true as he was the strongest adjuchas based espada. (surely he knew the power difference between himself and stark)

and Nnoitra did have very strong hierro, as he originated from a mantis who has an exoskeleton, bankai ichigo could not penetrate his skin, but he could later penetrate ulq's skin.

granted ichi might have gotten stronger after healing and he was tired at the time, but i dont think the ichigo who now is fighting ulq in bankai only could pierce Nnoitra's hierro unless he infuses getsuga in his slashes.

as of now, i believe Nnoitra indeed had the strongest hierro in espada history, and as such stronger than ulq's hierro, but probably not by leaps and bonds. considering more reiatsu does not harden soft spots like organs/eyes etc if kenpachi can slize Nnoitra in half, he can do it against ulq too. and getsuga? it sucks doesnt it? it doesnt even cut opponents its like a bloated energy wave that ether burns or gets slapped away now, not once have it cut like a normal swing, it has at best caused burns on his opponents (grimmjaw)

we should also assume kenpachi has not received 4 fatal wounds like he had when he used it on Nnoitra, thus increasing the punch of his slash, my vote is that kenpachi would drop ulq if he where allowed to get a free one in.

[Lnrd]

At most Kendo Kenpachi slashes are equal to Current Ichigo's Vizard bankai GT. Imo Ichigo could still cut Released Ulq and damage him, so a kendo slash from Kenpachi could cut him and do some good damage, but he'd never catch Ulq. If Ichigo can't catch him, Kenpachi sure as hell can't.

EDIT: After I reread the chapter @Ju-Ni I noticed that Ulq still had that light sword in his hand. So, Ulq didn't tank the GT but most likely cut through like he did last time.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/340/13/

[Levy]

Until we see Ichigo's GT go threw 6 weapons 4/5 arms and the most part of the body of an espada's hierro, is it obvious imo that Kendo is stronger.

[Lnrd]

^Like we're really going to see another character in BLEACH with more than 2 arms. So by your logic, nobody in BLEACH is going to have a greater attack power than Kendo Kenpachi. :unsure:

[Exploits]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/312/03/

The ground exploded in power from a sword-strike. I would personally assume that if Ulquiorra simply stood there and took it, he would die. Kenpachi is already known as the tank of the series, and his only notable attributes are ridiculous amounts of reiatsu, thick skin, and brute strength (Second only to perhaps Komamura, who I also wonder what kind of damage he would do with kendo). Taking all that into consideration, even if Nnoitra's comment about his hierro was a bold-faced lie (And it doesn't entirely seem so, at least yet, since nobody above Nnoitra has even been cut yet), I'd like to think Ulquiorra would be in pieces.

Edit - Or at least do serious damage.

[Yexley]

Yeah Kenpachi could one-shot Ulquiorra... Complete bullshit. Wouldn't be able to hit him but even if he did I doubt it would seriously injure him. Nnoitora was lying about being the strongest, he is probably lying about having toughest skin. If ranks < #4 aren't allowed to release in Las Noches there is a huge power gap between them and #5 - #10.

[Random]

I with ulq getting cut the fuck up, hes not immortal or impervious to been cut.

[Yexley]

Obviously not but Kenpachi isn't strong enough to do it just based on him beating #5 Espada. Nnoitora is clearly way weaker than Ulquiorra.

[darkp]

NNoitora also said he was the strongest Espada. Anything he says is lies imo. Unless we take the idea that full powered Bankai Vizard Ichigo's strongest attack is at least 10 times weaker than a normal Kenpachi slash then NNoitora was lying about having the strongest Hierro. GT leaves no mark on Ulquiorra and yet NNoitora gets a huge cut down his front ==> Nnoitora is lying or Zaraki has increased in strength at a much faster rate than Ichigo who has Bankai and a Vizard mask and who's main strength is supposed to be the speed at which he grows in strength according to Urahara and Aizen. He might cut him slightly but I doubt it would do much to actually hurt Ulquiorra.

Well he was not at least using his vizard part "mask" as u said. When he masked ulqi flees where he can release before ichigo could hit him .

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-354-page-11.html

Yea maybe noi does not have a strongest hierro but at least we can say that noi's hierro should be near ulqi's.(that is the almost only thing which is making him 5th his armor)

Well and dont take too lighty that kendo slash at least, that is the almost only thing which is making kenpachi a mid tier level captain. His insane brute stregth,endurance.(no kidou ,no bankai)

But that won't be enough to defeat an high tier level character in bleach ofc.

[Yexley]

You not read the most recent chapter? An Ichigo that was much stronger than the one that beat GJ just used a Vizard Bankai GT on Ulquiorra and it didn't do shit.

[Levy]

^Like we're really going to see another character in BLEACH with more than 2 arms. So by your logic, nobody in BLEACH is going to have a greater attack power than Kendo Kenpachi. :unsure:

Well what good feat does GT has? did it go threw anyone's arm/weapons? As I remember it never did. GT is completely overrated if people seriously believe it's as strong as Zaraki's kendo slash.

[darkp]

You not read the most recent chapter? An Ichigo that was much stronger than the one that beat GJ just used a Vizard Bankai GT on Ulquiorra and it didn't do shit.

Well I dont think we could compare a ranged atack like getsuga and a slash so ı was trying to give u a viewpoint .

İchigo could pierce ulqi armor with a strong slash.

[kochito22]

If Ichigo's most powerful attack couldn't pierce Ulq, why would a slash?

[Souliv]

I think that Kenpachi maybe able to get a small stab in if anything, I just think Ulquiorra is way to fast for him.

[xPyrox]

Probably Kendo Kenpachi.
If he went kendo and unpatched from the beginning, it'd be a fuckin' epic fight, I'd say it'd be close, but I'd go with Kenpachi. As long as he took it totally serious.

If he went at it like he did with nnoirta. Ulq takes it.

[Paragon]

Probably Kendo Kenpachi.
If he went kendo and unpatched from the beginning, it'd be a fuckin' epic fight, I'd say it'd be close, but I'd go with Kenpachi. As long as he took it totally serious.

If he went at it like he did with nnoirta. Ulq takes it.

Read the original post of this thread again.

Oh and lmao@thinking that somehow, some way Kenpachi has any hope of defeating Ulquiorra.

[eternio]

if im understanding this from what the point of this all is, if Ulq stands there and let a fully powered Kenpachi hit him in a kendo stance, what would it do? if thats the case it would at the very least cut him, not sure how deep.

if it was just a fight then ulq would decapitate kenpachi with his first strike, like he almost did to ichigo.

it would be really fun to see kenpachi use a bankai though.

[Mikeno]

It is in my estimation that Kenpachi's reiatsu infused kendo strike could injure Ulq who acquiesces to the blow considering the information on hand..

But it would be so much more interesting and hilarious if Ulq caught it with his bare hand reminiscent of Aizen to Komamura.. that would be priceless..

Here's to hoping Kenpachi has to step in again.. only this time he bites off more than he can chew.. lmao..

[vastroLordeIchigo]

^True dat. Plus Nnoitirra was already weakend before that.

noob answer for someone with that much rep. a espadas release heals all their wounds and even kenpachi said it during their fight so..........

[Lnrd]

It didn't heal his wounds, it closed up his wounds. Show me a page where it says he got healed.

[NAM1011]

Yeah, but some would consider that healing. It is just one's own interpretation of what happened. I see your logic though.

[Lnrd]

@Nam1011- I see but it's like when you get cut on the arm. You may stop the bleeding, but you're still going to feel pain even from the slightest breeze. You wouldn't say your healed because you stopped the bleeding. So he wasn't "healed" just the bleeding just stopped. The toll from Nell's and Kenpachi's attacks were still there.

[NAM1011]

Yeah, but it is a little different than putting a bandaid on a cut or the blood coagulating. His bleeding completely stops and is more like a scar wear the wound used to be.

[Random]

Obviously not but Kenpachi isn't strong enough to do it just based on him beating #5 Espada. Nnoitora is clearly way weaker than Ulquiorra.


kenpachi will have plot strenght or gained some after the kill of number 5.

[NAM1011]

This is a freaking match up. Plotkai, plot strength, or whatever you want to call it has no affect here.

[Lnrd]

Okay Nam, I see what your saying but I still believe the toll from Kenpachi's and Nell's attacks were still there, those wouldn't just up and disappear since he thoroughly closed his wound.

And, there isn't plotkai in a matchup on BE.

[NAM1011]

I agree. His endurance did not come back just from the release of his resurrecion. The endurance had taken a toll on him, but Kenpachi was also almost dead as well.

[Random]

well that aa tough one if you cut out plotkai, becasue thats all ulq's current release strength is based on or its just made up.

[BOssManNate]

you people are stupid he clearly said hes not a fight so there is no way ulq can win because he is doing nothing just tanking a blow the question is how you think he would handle tanking that blow for me i chose the 3rd one minimal damage but nothing too severe

[Random]

if he is taking a blow, maybe ulq will hold Kenpachi's head with both hands... idk...

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

I think the Kendo will cut Ulq. but thats it...no damage and certainly not cutting Ulq in half

[Lnrd]

I think the Kendo will cut Ulq. but thats it...no damage and certainly not cutting Ulq in half

He's defentely not doing anything anything similiar to what he did to Nnoitora, but I think he could do some good damage.

[Oxyuranus]

Noi said that "I am the strongest" but that wasnt him stating he is the strongest espada. That is regarding his ambition to become so.

Noi stated that his herrio was the strongest amungst the Espada specificly. This has no reason to be refuted at all.

Now, since the thread isnt a fight and is basicly what would do more damage to Uli, kendo or GT, well, from what we have seen, without question Kendo would. Kendo basicly one shotted the Espada with the strongest Herrio (again, until proof exist there is no reason to debate these words from Noi). GT barely scratch unreleased Uli.

I am not saying Zaraki wins the fight but when comparing kendo to GT, strength wise, the win goes to kendo. GT can be used long range or short range depending on how Ichigo decided to weild it making it more versitile whereas Kendo is only at close range but the sheer power and the fact that Zaraki can spam it (this is speculation I admit but being a simple two handed swing means there is good reason to speculate) makes up for the distance.

Ok, I digressed a bit.

In short kendo is more powerful from what we have seen without question. Until Noi's words are refuted it is undeniable.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

@lnrd - Well depending on how this weeks chapter...i'm not soo sure if i believe that

[Oxyuranus]

Well depending on how this weeks chapter...i'm not soo sure if i believe that

If Ichigo breaks out a new GT move then you may have a point but the real question still remains and if Noi's skin is the hardest then kendo is the more impressive power wise. Unless Uli comes out and states that his herrio is the strongest or stronger then Noi's, or if Ichigo bust out a new GT move that turns Uli into dust, its still in the favor of kendo.

[Yexley]

lol at someone negging me for saying that Ulquiorra is stronger than Nnoitora and it being such a noob negging that my rep only went down by like 20 points. It's hard to tell considering Ichigo never hit Nnoitora and the only thing we have to base Kenpachi's strength on is that one fight and Ulq has only taken hits from Ichigo. If Nnoitora wasn't lying then it would hurt Ulq quite a lot but if he was then it doesn't do much at all.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

If Ichigo breaks out a new GT move then you may have a point but the real question still remains and if Noi's skin is the hardest then kendo is the more impressive power wise. Unless Uli comes out and states that his herrio is the strongest or stronger then Noi's, or if Ichigo bust out a new GT move that turns Uli into dust, its still in the favor of kendo.

I still don't agree but we will see soon enough

lol at someone negging me for saying that Ulquiorra is stronger than Nnoitora and it being such a noob negging that my rep only went down by like 20 points. It's hard to tell considering Ichigo never hit Nnoitora and the only thing we have to base Kenpachi's strength on is that one fight and Ulq has only taken hits from Ichigo. If Nnoitora wasn't lying then it would hurt Ulq quite a lot but if he was then it doesn't do much at all.

this is trye

[Goroth]

The fact that the Espadas' ranking (numbers) is or should I say was established when Aizen formed them. They could've gotten better or worse since then. So, by now I think Nnoitora had the baddest badass skin like the terminator (lol) and Kenpachi used kendo, something that is not so devastating as his bankai or shikai might be. And made a mantis-sishkebab. Therefore I see if Kenpachi can land that strike, the other one will be in bad shape.

[justin43]

If Noitora have the toughest skin, then by logic, should Kendo Zaraki be able to kill Stark with one kendo slash.:oh: Why would you trust an espada who lied about being the strongest espada and who was cut by patchless Zaraki before Kendo?:weird:

[Yexley]

If he could hit him then yes based on that claim. That's why I think the claim is complete bs.

[justin43]

If he could hit him then yes based on that claim. That's why I think the claim is complete bs.

Exactly my point.

[Paragon]

Kenpachi being overrated has become somewhat of a trend around these part most recently. o_O

Kendo cuts released Ulquiorra similar to how Bankai Ichigo did to unreleased Ulquiorra and thats the maximum damage Ulquiorra would have inflicted on him.

[justin43]

I see how Zaraki is overrated with these poll results. At best, Zaraki scratches Ulquiorra. Most likely, Zaraki will do no damage at all.

[NAM1011]

I would just like to say that the kendo slash and the GT are completely different moves. The black GT is more like a cero and less of a slicing technique, at least to me. Using the Ichigo comparison may not be the best way to judge this.

[justin43]

Not if the GT is used as a slash as demonstrated earlier in this fight. Only when it is released from the blade, it acts more like a cero, but with a cutting identity. GT isn't just concussive force through even if it is released even through it can only be that depending on how it is released. Beside the technique, the right amount of power must be there for Ulquiorra's hierro to be penetrated. Otherwise, slash or not, the attack will do little to no damage.

[darkp]

If Ichigo's most powerful attack couldn't pierce Ulq, why would a slash?

Well a ranged atack like GT which is energy based atack can be weakned, can be cut thorugh or redirected. If any GT dmg reached to ulqi than at least his cloth's should be dmg or burned. His hierro is in his skin not on his fucking clothes. That is why ı am sayin u cant compare an energy base ranged atack and slash. If u compare these 2 irrelevant atack type's , people start to overrate or underastimate things.

And when did gt became a finisher, ı dont remember it hurts too much in any figth. İchigo wins every big fight untill now ,almost just with slashing ,u know.

Well and last thing people was complained about "ulqi was overrated" of recent past until ichigo fight and now those people could start to say he is god in other thread's . Overastmate and underastimate border's are like a fine line. If u see someone overestimated than, there is always a big chance which is "u are underastmating something in that person" . Same goes for the very opposite ofc. There should be balance in these thread comment's which ı never see . Some people overastimate him and some people underastimate him. He is a medium tier captain , like it or not ,he can do shit's if his opponent's stupid enough to take an clean slash with kendo than he would be death or take a very serious dmg that is the only thing which is making him medium tier strength and endurance ,and but ofc ulqi is not stupid than, there is no way kenpachi could defeat him .

[pumpkin13]

we haven't seen any indication of anything being able to damage released ulquiorra's hierro. Power upgrade Ichi could barely scratch it. until we get a measure of power needed to penetrate his hierro im going with : "he wouldn't be able to cause any major internal damage, likely superficial at best.

[Oxyuranus]

Overrated you say? Just fan boys talking crap? ha! Read the manga! From what has been shown, the comparison between GT and Kendo shows kendo as the stronger attack. Not fastest, not best, not gaunteed to one shot Uli or any of the other top espada, simply stronger then GT. Until a living espada claims to have stronger Herrio there is zero reason to refute what he said. KT wrote those words, or the JP version anyway. He did so for a reason just like he had pumpkin claim to be the fastest. Until somthing comes out to refute it, its cannon.

and why in the hell are you bringing up stark? Can you guys read? The thread is GT vs Kendo on Uli. Between the 2 hits, from what we have seen, everything leads to this conclusion. Do I think Kendo can harm stark or the other espada? Your damn right I do. Do I think Kenpachi can win because of it? No, not at all. Let us remeber that DBZ logic does not apply here. Strongest dosent mean victor.

Regarding Noi, can you show me where he specificly stated that he is the strongest ESPADA? I have never seen him say that. He said I am the strongest. That could mean anthing! Most likely he meant he is the strongest between him and Kenpachi which was lol. Again, just because you twist the words to your liking dosent mean its true. Use what is shown in the manga as canon, not your BS speculation.

Now, please, pay attention and argue the two moves compared to eachother and stop bring up irelevant points like the stark comment.

we haven't seen any indication of anything being able to damage released ulquiorra's hierro. Power upgrade Ichi could barely scratch it. until we get a measure of power needed to penetrate his hierro im going with : "he wouldn't be able to cause any major internal damage, likely superficial at best.

You have a point but on the same note, the statment Noi made still leads us to belive that his Herrio is the strongest. Since Uli is an Espada until proven otherwise (perhaps a VL though I have my doubts) that places his Herrio bellow Noi's. The thread is aboout which hit will do more damage, not which hit is most likely to hit or who would have a better chance of winning. We have seen what VGT did to Uli which was laughable and we have seen what Kendo did to the espada that has the strongest herrio. based on that, logicly we can assume that Kendo is the stronger attack.

Zaraki's strength has been commented on, by many people in the manga I might add to be legendary. Is it really that hard to accept kendo being stronger then GT?

[darkp]

we haven't seen any indication of anything being able to damage released ulquiorra's hierro.

Well yea this is true but there is a trick , tell me did we see any attack which could reach ulqi's hierro or skin after ulqi release from ichigo ? We are comparing here ulqi's hierro.

Only atack which ichigo performed as ı remembered was a getsuga tensho and are u guys sure that getsuga tensho even reach ulqi's hierro. If that happened than why ulqi's clothes is not get any dmg or burned ? Well as we know hierro is at skin , not on fucking clothes as ı posted before . Ulqiora prolly just cut through it or redirect it, ı am not sure.

[Lnrd]

Well yea this is true but there is a trick , tell me did we see any attack which could reach ulqi's hierro or skin after ulqi release from ichigo ? We are comparing here ulqi's hierro.

Only atack which ichigo performed as ı remembered was a getsuga tensho and are u guys sure that getsuga tensho even reach ulqi's hierro. If that happened than why ulqi's clothes is not get any dmg or burned ? Well as we know hierro is at skin , not on fucking clothes as ı posted before. Ulqiora prolly just cut through it or redirect it, ı am not sure.

QFT I was saying this in the dicussion thread. The GT didn't reach him because he cut through it. Ulq still had that light sword in his hand

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8296/bleachch34616.png (http://www.imagehosting.com/)
As you can see in the image Ulq is going through the GT, not standing there i.e. cutting through.

[Ajpinecrest2]

Let's see, Kendo Kenpachi one-shots the fifth Espada with his Kendo slash, and Ichigo's Vizard GT is laughed off by Grimmjow.

Call me crazy, but I can't help but feel it was obvious an attack that had zero effect on Grimmjow would damage Ulquiorra in the slightest.

[Goroth]

If Noitora have the toughest skin, then by logic, should Kendo Zaraki be able to kill Stark with one kendo slash.:oh: Why would you trust an espada who lied about being the strongest espada and who was cut by patchless Zaraki before Kendo?:weird:

Nnoitora being the strongest and shouting around was just a morale-lifting thing. It was too obvious that he wasn't the best.
Before kendo, Zaraki was already on a reaitsu-stampede and I guess he was just that awesome.

However, mine is speculation based on what I've seen. I could be wrong you know.

[IchiRuki08]

Well this is kinda up in the air because Ulq has another release which has never happened in Bleach before... Maybe he is a VL bum bum bum!

[fifenfk]

As a zaraki fan boy this one is tough but i think he slashes ulquiorra and does heavy damage but ulquiorra stands up again.

[Goroth]

Well this is kinda up in the air because Ulq has another release which has never happened in Bleach before... Maybe he is a VL bum bum bum!

Kenpachi has two more release.

[Paragon]

Kenpachi has two more release.

What are those?

[Goroth]

What are those?

Shikai and Bankai?!

[pumpkin13]

Overrated you say? Just fan boys talking crap? ha! Read the manga! From what has been shown, the comparison between GT and Kendo shows kendo as the stronger attack. Not fastest, not best, not gaunteed to one shot Uli or any of the other top espada, simply stronger then GT. Until a living espada claims to have stronger Herrio there is zero reason to refute what he said. KT wrote those words, or the JP version anyway. He did so for a reason just like he had pumpkin claim to be the fastest. Until somthing comes out to refute it, its cannon.

and why in the hell are you bringing up stark? Can you guys read? The thread is GT vs Kendo on Uli. Between the 2 hits, from what we have seen, everything leads to this conclusion. Do I think Kendo can harm stark or the other espada? Your damn right I do. Do I think Kenpachi can win because of it? No, not at all. Let us remeber that DBZ logic does not apply here. Strongest dosent mean victor.

Regarding Noi, can you show me where he specificly stated that he is the strongest ESPADA? I have never seen him say that. He said I am the strongest. That could mean anthing! Most likely he meant he is the strongest between him and Kenpachi which was lol. Again, just because you twist the words to your liking dosent mean its true. Use what is shown in the manga as canon, not your BS speculation.

Now, please, pay attention and argue the two moves compared to eachother and stop bring up irelevant points like the stark comment.



You have a point but on the same note, the statment Noi made still leads us to belive that his Herrio is the strongest. Since Uli is an Espada until proven otherwise (perhaps a VL though I have my doubts) that places his Herrio bellow Noi's. The thread is aboout which hit will do more damage, not which hit is most likely to hit or who would have a better chance of winning. We have seen what VGT did to Uli which was laughable and we have seen what Kendo did to the espada that has the strongest herrio. based on that, logicly we can assume that Kendo is the stronger attack.

Zaraki's strength has been commented on, by many people in the manga I might add to be legendary. Is it really that hard to accept kendo being stronger then GT?

You obviously have no concept of the "unreliable narrator". Kubo had them say this to further characterise the arrancar as a bunch of arrogant stuck up bastards. If Noitra says something about himself, unless it is backed up and justified by someone else within the same group saying of their own free volition "Yeah Noitra has the strongest hierro out of us" then it's simply Noitra bigging himself up. Same goes for Zommari.

@Eichigoo: Yeah and Yama has another release as well; Vaizard mask on top of his bankai /end sarcasm. Basically; no, until we hear any more about Zaraki learning about his zan, Zaraki does not have any more releases, besides, it would only be bankai because he is constantly in shikai) and I highly doubt Kubo is going to give Zaraki that because then he would be taking away exactly what makes Zaraki so unique amongst the Shinigami.

[Goroth]

Hehe. I saw that one comin'. Yes until that moment... There was a big thread about Kenpachi's uniqueness and his blade remember? I was there...

I just had to say something back to "emocar has still one more release", that's why I said two more release.

[Paragon]

Hehe. I saw that one comin'. Yes until that moment... There was a big thread about Kenpachi's uniqueness and his blade remember? I was there...

I just had to say something back to "emocar has still one more release", that's why I said two more release.

Eechigo just shut up, if you haven't got anything useful to say regarding this match up then don't post at all, keep your anti-Ulquiorra rubbish out of this thread. No second warnings.

[manje10]

Let's see, Kendo Kenpachi one-shots the fifth Espada with his Kendo slash, and Ichigo's Vizard GT is laughed off by Grimmjow.

Call me crazy, but I can't help but feel it was obvious an attack that had zero effect on Grimmjow would damage Ulquiorra in the slightest.

Everyones missed this point so far ^^

[Goroth]

Eechigo just shut up, if you haven't got anything useful to say regarding this match up then don't post at all, keep your anti-Ulquiorra rubbish out of this thread. No second warnings.

By useful you mean pure speculation and incomparable compare? :amused:
What the hell will you do? Neg me? LOL. Don't be stupid, this match is by far mostly orientated on speculation and past encounters with no so many intel on it. You know that.

the Espada hasn't reached max level yet, so you will assume he will become stronger than now. But you don't know his full power/weaknesses. So, you can't say his skin will be tough-as-fuck. It may have been like that in the past. My point is those rankings and numbers were given when Aizen formed them, they could've easily decreased/increased their attributes.

But I think Captain level kendo slashes should be able to do damage, maybe not a major one, but still a decent damage...


As for Kenpachi and his Zan, he has no shikai or bankai, I know that. But GT or anyother attack should not be compared to Kenpachi's slashes, simply because Ichigo is the protagonist and landed a few shots on him doesn't mean the fruit-man is stronger than him. Kenpachi could've made his head on the dishes in 3 seconds...

[Paragon]

By useful you mean pure speculation and incomparable compare? :amused:
What the hell will you do? Neg me? LOL. Don't be stupid, this match is by far mostly orientated on speculation and past encounters with no so many intel on it. You know that.



What will i do? Well lets see...i'll ban you for constant spamming, how does that sound? Clearly you have no idea how this area work. These matches are based of facts, along with feats and based assumptions.


the Espada hasn't reached max level yet, so you will assume he will become stronger than now. But you don't know his full power/weaknesses. So, you can't say his skin will be tough-as-fuck. It may have been like that in the past. My point is those rankings and numbers were given when Aizen formed them, they could've easily decreased/increased their attributes.

Its based of what we have seen up till date, so whether or not Ulquiorra can still increase the level of his hierro by reaching this supposed "maxed level" is irrelevant because it has yet to be proven. No, you have no point other than deciding to make it known to everyone that you're a Ulquiorra hater and coming up with baseless claims such as Kenpachi having Bankai.

But I think Captain level kendo slashes should be able to do damage, maybe not a major one, but still a decent damage...

Finally you answered the question the OP asked, this was all you had to say from the beginning and then move on.

As for Kenpachi and his Zan, he has no shikai or bankai, I know that. But GT or anyother attack should not be compared to Kenpachi's slashes, simply because Ichigo is the protagonist and landed a few shots on him doesn't mean the fruit-man is stronger than him. Kenpachi could've made his head on the dishes in 3 seconds...

Yeah, sure of course Kenpachi could defeat Ichigo within 3 second. [/sarcasm]

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

As for Kenpachi and his Zan, he has no shikai or bankai, I know that. But GT or anyother attack should not be compared to Kenpachi's slashes, simply because Ichigo is the protagonist and landed a few shots on him doesn't mean the fruit-man is stronger than him. Kenpachi could've made his head on the dishes in 3 seconds...

kenpachi could've beat Ichigo in 3 seconds? when?

[shinji]

Judging by the last chapter he does'nt even get close let alone scratch him.

Ulquiorra rips his head off.

[Ajpinecrest2]

Kendo Kenpachi cuts right through Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra has never stood up to anything even close to the strength level of a Kendo Slash, the GT was obviously not going to have any effect because it had no effect on Grimmjow.

Until we have more proof on Ulquiorra the slash tears him in half just like it did Nnoitra.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

Kendo Kenpachi cuts right through Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra has never stood up to anything even close to the strength level of a Kendo Slash, the GT was obviously not going to have any effect because it had no effect on Grimmjow.

Until we have more proof on Ulquiorra the slash tears him in half just like it did Nnoitra.

it took a kendo slice to kill Nnoitra...and u think that same slash can cut ulq.(who is levels above nnoitra) in half?

[Ajpinecrest2]

it took a kendo slice to kill Nnoitra

Yeah, went through Nnoitra like a hot knife through butter.

...and u think that same slash can cut ulq.(who is levels above nnoitra) in half?

He's actually only one level above Nnoitra and with even worse durability feats.

His best feat so far is tanking Vizard Ichigo's Getsuga, which Grimmjow, one level below Nnoitra laughed off.

[NigaDem]

^they're is a MAJOR difference in power beween the 4th and 5th, you fail to mention that Nnoitra was also injured throughout the fight(plus he fought Nell) and probably wasnt fightin at 100%,... i doubt kenpachi kendo slash will cut Ulq....Like Paragon said at best he will scratch him

[Vic]

We have yet to see the major difference in power between 4 and 5 actually.

[Levy]

Yeah, went through Nnoitra like a hot knife through butter.



He's actually only one level above Nnoitra and with even worse durability feats.

His best feat so far is tanking Vizard Ichigo's Getsuga, which Grimmjow, one level below Nnoitra laughed off.

It's been a while since I've agreed with you, but QTF ;)

You guys are seriously overestimating Ulquiorra and hierro. As Vic said, there is also no basis to prove that Ulquiorra is lightyears ahead of Noi in fighting power (he's obviously stronger because of his rank but the power gap has not been shown to be as big as some of you guys believe it to be). One raped a weakened Ichigo (so we can't judge how he would do against the real deal) and once is raping a healed Ichigo.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

He's actually only one level above Nnoitra and with even worse durability feats.

His best feat so far is tanking Vizard Ichigo's Getsuga, which Grimmjow, one level below Nnoitra laughed off.

by levels i meant the gaps between them.....and granted we won't know how different the gap is but based on the level of energy Ulq has been putting out(enough to shake HM) as well as him not being allowed to release inside the dome because it being too powerful gives us a good distinction between the gap of their powers...If Ulq. and Nnoitra were close in power i don't see how Ulq.'s release could be soo 'devastating' while Nnoitra not soo much

[ExStark]

I say that if it doesn't kill Ulquiorra then it will definitly hurt him. I doubt he has a much better heirro the Nnoitra who is but one rank above him who did not have a chance then Ulquiorras should not be that much different. The only way I think he can survive the attack or be so high and powefull is only if his is a Vasto Lorde.

[Ajpinecrest2]

^they're is a MAJOR difference in power beween the 4th and 5th,

Show me how big this power difference is.

Because I know you don't have proof and you know you don't have proof.

you fail to mention that Nnoitra was also injured throughout the fight(plus he fought Nell) and probably wasnt fightin at 100%

Nope, Nnoitra regen'd pretty well once he transformed, and he was obviously fighting with all he had, he's proven he doesn't go easy on anyone, cripples, babies, and what have you.

i doubt kenpachi kendo slash will cut Ulq....Like Paragon said at best he will scratch him

You have no reason to assume that Ulquiorra is any more durable than Nnoitra, while there is a power difference because of the rank up, for all you know, the only reason that rank difference is there is because Nnoitra is slow as fuck.

[darkhole]

Hmm, I was thinking about this particular match up again when something hit me:

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000107612/03.jpg

"I didn't think that Arankaru's skin would have such dense spiritual pressure"

Yoruichi was referring to Yammy at the time. So I wonder if Hierro is indeed made up of spiritual pressure and not just some really tough skin? Because if that is the case then wouldn't Ulquiorra have greater hierro than Nnoitra? Ulquiorra has to release outside of the dome because his reiatsu would cause structural damage.

Just throwing this out there for people to muse over.

[Lnrd]

Hmm, I was thinking about this particular match up again when something hit me:

http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000107612/03.jpg

"I didn't think that Arankaru's skin would have such dense spiritual pressure"

Yoruichi was referring to Yammy at the time. So I wonder if Hierro is indeed made up of spiritual pressure and not just some really tough skin? Because if that is the case then wouldn't Ulquiorra have greater hierro than Nnoitra? Ulquiorra has to release outside of the dome because his reiatsu would cause structural damage.

Just throwing this out there for people to muse over.

Yep, I've been stating this. Hierro is compressed reiatsu on the outside layer of arrancar skin. Those arrancar who have greater reiatsu will always have tougher skin than arrancar with less. And since Ulq has more reiatsu than Nnoi, he has tougher skin as a result. Now to what degree I don't know, but the gap between Nnoi and Ulq seems like a nice sized gap.

[Ajpinecrest2]

When did someone proof there was a difference in Reiatsu?

[Delta]

Yep, I've been stating this. Hierro is compressed reiatsu on the outside layer of arrancar skin. Those arrancar who have greater reiatsu will always have tougher skin than arrancar with less. And since Ulq has more reiatsu than Nnoi, he has tougher skin as a result. Now to what degree I don't know, but the gap between Nnoi and Ulq seems like a nice sized gap.

The problem with that is that we don't know how exactly hierro is made. Like I previously mentioned, many elements may go into it - the resurecion form, the reiatsu, the percent of total reiatsu compressed, maybe the power of the jewel (don't remember it's name) during arrancarization, etc.

[Kingkon]

When did someone proof there was a difference in Reiatsu?

Well lets see when Aizen puts out a rule where the top 4 Espada (note: he did not include no. 5) is not allowed to release under the dome of Las Noches because it will destroy the building, then a logical person would assume that that no. 4 is exponentially stronger than no. 5!

Now do you have any proof that being 4 which means your stronger than number 5 doesn't mean you have stronger reatsu? or did proving your own comments only go one way!

[Ajpinecrest2]

Well lets see when Aizen puts out a rule where the top 4 Espada (note: he did not include no. 5) is not allowed to release under the dome of Las Noches because it will destroy the building, then a logical person would assume that that no. 4 is exponentially stronger than no. 5!

That's not proof of a difference in reiatsu, as we know that reiatsu has zero effect on objects, that is merely a precaution because of the massive destruction capabilities, besides, it doesn't take much to destroy Las Noches' dome, I mean even the Gran Rey which was completely shrugged off as weak by Vizard Bankai Ichigo damaged it.

Now do you have any proof that being 4 which means your stronger than number 5 doesn't mean you have stronger reatsu? or did proving your own comments only go one way!

When did I claim Nnoitra had more reiatsu than Ulquiorra?

That's right, I didn't.

When someone else makes a claim, the burden of proof falls on them, so someone should go about proving that there is a reiatsu difference between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra.

[Kingkon]

That's not proof of a difference in reiatsu, as we know that reiatsu has zero effect on objects, that is merely a precaution because of the massive destruction capabilities, besides, it doesn't take much to destroy Las Noches' dome, I mean even the Gran Rey which was completely shrugged off as weak by Vizard Bankai Ichigo damaged it.

The point is that why would Aizen put out a rule that only 1-4 couldn't release under the dome and leave no. 5-10 out of that rule then there must be a power gap between 4 and 5!



When did I claim Nnoitra had more reiatsu than Ulquiorra?

That's right, I didn't.
when did I say you did, That's right I didn't



When someone else makes a claim, the burden of proof falls on them, so someone should go about proving that there is a reiatsu difference between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra.
When somebody make a reasonable assumption that no. 4 has more reatsu than no.5 because there is a power gap, and then you question that assumption then you better have an arguement or proof of why you think that that logic is wrong.

[Ajpinecrest2]

The point is that why would Aizen put out a rule that only 1-4 couldn't release under the dome and leave no. 5-10 out of that rule then there must be a power gap between 4 and 5!

Aizen also said Gran Rey Cero's aren't allowed under the dome, meaning they must be more powerful than all Espada's above #4, but oh wait, they aren't at all.

Those rules don't prove anything about strength.

when did I say you did, That's right I didn't

So are you going to get to proving the reiatsu difference between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra or are you just going to keep throwing suppositions my way?

When somebody make a reasonable assumption that no. 4 has more reatsu than no.5 because there is a power gap, and then you question that assumption then you better have arguement of why you think that that logic is wrong.

I don't need to have an argument as to why that is wrong, they need proof that their claim is correct.

It's called the Burden of Proof, or Debating 101, pick your fancy.

No one has proven a power gap, no one has proven a reiatsu difference, so why are you delluding yourself into thinking it's been done?

[Kingkon]

Aizen also said Gran Rey Cero's aren't allowed under the dome, meaning they must be more powerful than all Espada's above #4, but oh wait, they aren't at all.

Those rules don't prove anything about strength.
well a grand rey cero is an attack are you saying to me you can't tell the difference between an espada and an attack? and still you haven't explained why only the top 4 is not allowed to release?


So are you going to get to proving the reiatsu difference between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra or are you just going to keep throwing suppositions my way?



I don't need to have an argument as to why that is wrong, they need proof that their claim is correct.

It's called the Burden of Proof, or Debating 101, pick your fancy.

No one has proven a power gap, no one has proven a reiatsu difference, heres your proof Ulquiorra is no.4 who is stronger than no. 5, poeple with stronger reatsu or spiritual pressure are stronger that the ones with less just like captains have much stronger reatsu than their VC, now if you think that logic is wrong now prove that that logic is wrong!

and really stop delluding yourself that there is no power gap between no.4 and no.5 because the Espada has been ranked already and logic stated that no.4 is higer that no.5 or do you want me to prove that as well

[Ajpinecrest2]

well a grand rey cero is an attack are you saying to me you can't tell the difference between an espada and an attack?

Can you tell me why the difference matters?

If Aizen apparently deems anything that shouldn't be used under the dome to be stronger than anything that is allowed to be used under the dome, then why does it matter if it's an attack or not?

By your logic since Gran Rey is forbidden under the dome, it's an attack above Nnoitra, Grimmjow, Zommari, Syzael, AA, and Yammy.

We know this isn't the case since it gets shrugged off by Ichigo though.

So you have nothing supporting your argument that use under or above the dome makes a difference in strength.

and still you haven't explained why only the top 4 is not allowed to release?

Don't need to, doesn't hurt my argument if I don't.

Hurts your's if you can't though.

heres your proof Ulquiorra is no.4 who is stronger than no. 5, poeple with stronger reatsu or spiritual pressure are stronger that the ones with less just like captains have much stronger reatsu than their VC, now if you think that logic is wrong now prove that that logic is wrong!

It is wrong.

Ichigo had Captain level Reiatsu for all of the Soul Society arc, but was dominated by the Captains until he was able to access the energy given to him from his Zanpaktou (Bankai.)

Think about that while I go to sleep.

[Kingkon]

Can you tell me why the difference matters?



If you can't tell the difference youreself then its hopeless arguing with you


Don't need to, doesn't hurt my argument if I don't.

Hurts your's if you can't though.

Heck what arguement do you have if you can't answer my question?



It is wrong.

Ichigo had Captain level Reiatsu for all of the Soul Society arc, but was dominated by the Captains until he was able to access the energy given to him from his Zanpaktou (Bankai.)

Think about that while I go to sleep.

No youre wrong! Ichigo might have high reatsu but Kenpachi had higher thats why he got his but kicked, plus he could not have achieved bankai without increasing his reatsu while training!

[NigaDem]

We have yet to see the major difference in power between 4 and 5 actually.

this goes to Ajpinecrest2 as well

In some ways we have, 4th and above cant release inside the dorm and have a the "black cero"......I really think that if ichigo was at full power he would of defeated or at least heavily damage Nnoitra....

[Belial]

Ichigo went to his inner world and ended up tapping into every single bit of his power just to force a draw with eyepatchless kenpachi for a single strike when he was still using 1 hand

released nnoi was roflstomping what ichigo had to put everything into for even 1 strike, and when kenpachi was so badly injured he was sure he was going to die from any more punishment he 1 shot the guy.

A full health kenpachi using kendo strike on Ulq would do considerable damage IMO

[Ajpinecrest2]

If you can't tell the difference youreself then its hopeless arguing with you

Oh, so you mean to say you prove that the difference matters?

Heck what arguement do you have if you can't answer my question?

I don't need to prove you wrong, you need to prove yourself right.

No youre wrong! Ichigo might have high reatsu but Kenpachi had higher thats why he got his but kicked, plus he could not have achieved bankai without increasing his reatsu while training!

You are wrong, Yoruichi noted that it didn't increase during his training, and Byakuya noted that Bankai didn't change his reiatsu, merely compressed it.

Also, Kenpachi couldn't have had a higher reiatsu than Ichigo, because Ichigo had a greater amount of reiatsu than Byakuya, who at that time was stated to have a greater amount of reiatsu than Kenpachi.


In some ways we have, 4th and above cant release inside the dorm and have a the "black cero"

Not being allowed to release inside the dorm doesn't prove a power difference, as the Gran Rey Cero isn't allowed under there either, and we know that Nnoitra, Grimmjow, and probably others can hit much harder than the Gran Rey Cero.

As for the Black Cero, why does that show a power difference?

I really think that if ichigo was at full power he would of defeated or at least heavily damage Nnoitra....

What am I supposed to say to this?

Good for you?

I don't care what you really think, I care about what you can prove.

[Belial]

As for the Black Cero, why does that show a power difference?

Because none of the others demonstrated the technique, and released grimmjow got his ass kicked by a weaker version of ichigo, wouldn't have even been close if he hadn't had to take those hits for orihime

The stronger ichigo facing ulq got raped by it, why the hell wouldn't the others use something so powerful before they died/got beat?

It might not state it directly but it doesn't take a huge leap in logic to infer that it demonstrates a significant power difference

[Ajpinecrest2]

Knowing a technique does not show a power difference, for instance, Ichigo knows Getsuga Tenshou, is he stronger than Aizen because Aizen does not know Getsuga Tenshou?

No, he is not.

[Kingkon]

Oh, so you mean to say you prove that the difference matters? Oh really do we really need to be childish about this? Lets see the difference Grand Rey Cero is the strongest attack any espada has in there arsenal and is there most destructive, now if the top 4 Espada releasing alone would be powerful to be as destructive as the most powerful attacks of lesser espada then they must be a power gap between the top 4 espada and the rest of them right?



I don't need to prove you wrong, you need to prove yourself right.
WTF? If you can't prove me wrong, then doesn't that make me right? C'mon you can't even answer a perfectly reasonable question and your replying whatever comes to your head even if it doesn't make any sense at all


You are wrong, Yoruichi noted that it didn't increase during his training, and Byakuya noted that Bankai didn't change his reiatsu, merely compressed it.

Also, Kenpachi couldn't have had a higher reiatsu than Ichigo, because Ichigo had a greater amount of reiatsu than Byakuya, who at that time was stated to have a greater amount of reiatsu than Kenpachi.
Sorry I miss the part in the manga where said that Ichigo has more reatsu than Byakuya, and kindly show me aswell proof that Byakuya has stronger reatsu than Kenpachi?


Not being allowed to release inside the dorm doesn't prove a power difference, as the Gran Rey Cero isn't allowed under there either, and we know that Nnoitra, Grimmjow, and probably others can hit much harder than the Gran Rey Cero.

As for the Black Cero, why does that show a power difference?
Because its a technique other Espadas does not have! and there is a difference between an ability and a technique.

Really now Noitora and Ulquiorra won't ever fight head to head and that seems to be the proof your looking for right, then I give up thats not gonna happen, Ulquiorra being a rank higher than Noitora is enough proof to me and to alot of people that there is a power gap. why, because its logical!

[Ajpinecrest2]

Oh really do we really need to be childish about this? Lets see the difference Grand Rey Cero is the strongest attack any espada has in there arsenal and is very destructive, now if the top 4 Espada releasing alone would be powerful to be as destructive as the most powerful attacks of lesser espada then they must be a power gap between the top 4 espada and the rest of them right?

That would be true if the Gran Rey Cero was the most powerful attack the lesser Espada have in their arsenal's but it's not.

It was casually batted away by Ichigo.

WTF? If you can't prove me wrong, then doesn't that make me right? C'mon you can't even answer a perfectly reasonable question and your replying whatever comes to your head even if it doesn't make any sense at all

I can prove you wrong, but I don't have to.

You have to prove yourself right, otherwise your point is invalid.

Sorry I miss the part in the manga where said that Ichigo has more reatsu than Byakuya, and kindly show me aswell proof that Byakuya has stronger reatsu than Kenpachi?

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/16/

The technique focuses all of Byakuya's Reiatsu into a single sword by compressing his Bankai into that.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/17/

Ichigo states he is pouring all of his reiatsu into his sword.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/167/07/

Ichigo's attack had more reiatsu in it, thus it was more powerful, causing it to break Byakuya's blade.

As for the statement between Byakuya and Kenpachi, here you go.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/116/10/

Ganju states it plain as day.

Because its a technique other Espadas does not have! and there is a difference between an ability and a technique.

Yeah, and Getsuga Tenshou is an ability, since Ulquiorra doesn't know it, does that mean he is weaker?

I mean, it's a technique that he doesn't have.

So Ichigo is stronger.

Really now Noitora and Ulquiorra won't ever fight head to head and that seems to be the proof your looking for right, then I give up thats not gonna happen, Ulquiorra being a rank higher than Noitora is enough proof to me and to alot of people that there is a power gap. why, because its logical!

For all you know, the only reason there is a rank is different is because of the speed difference.

You can't prove there is any power gap, only a speed gap.

[Kingkon]

That would be true if the Gran Rey Cero was the most powerful attack the lesser Espada have in their arsenal's but it's not.

It was casually batted away by Ichigo.

if grand rey cero is not their most powerful attack then what is?

I can prove you wrong, but I don't have to.

You have to prove yourself right, otherwise your point is invalid. I have already proven proven myself right when you couldn't answer a simple question!





http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/16/

The technique focuses all of Byakuya's Reiatsu into a single sword by compressing his Bankai into that.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/17/

Ichigo states he is pouring all of his reiatsu into his sword.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/167/07/

Ichigo's attack had more reiatsu in it, thus it was more powerful, causing it to break Byakuya's blade.

As for the statement between Byakuya and Kenpachi, here you go.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/116/10/

Ganju states it plain as day. and Ganju has never been close to an eyepatchless Kenpachi has he? and using Ichigo as an example is useless because he is always the exeption to the rule, not to mention he's a newbie and couldn't control his reatsu early on!



Yeah, and Getsuga Tenshou is an ability, since Ulquiorra doesn't know it, does that mean he is weaker?

I mean, it's a technique that he doesn't have. okay I didn't think I have to actually explain what an ability is or what the meaning of technique is by why not


see Ulqiorra and Ichigo both have different ability see Ulqiorra can't use GT because that is Ichigo's swords ability, follow me. Now all espada's use cero, the black cero which is as shown in the manga is the strongest use of cero so far that means Ulqiorra has better technique! you can only compare technique if two people have the same ability like Yorouichi has better shunpo than Byakuya! simple enough for you or do you want me to go on!


For all you know, the only reason there is a rank is different is because of the speed difference.

You can't prove there is any power gap, only a speed gap. for all we know its not because ulqiorra already showed a stronger cero didn't he?

[Cloud Sykes]

Im sorry, Ive lost track of what you two are arguing about lol.

Oh wait, now I remember. Power gap between Nnoitra and Ulquiorra.... wether Ulquiorra could take a kendo slash from Kenpachi... ok, time for me to instill my *cough* valuable insights.

Bleach is, from what I can tell, notorious for changing peoples power levels without warning.

Soifons Vice Captain was knocked out by a barehanded Ichigo on sokyoku hill, but later we see him fighting an Arrancar and winning easily. People change and I would think comparing SS arc Ichigo to the current Ichigo is invalid because they are worlds apart now and likewise for Kenpachi.

As for the power gap between Nnoitra and Ulquiorra, how can anyone dispute that there isnt a huge step up? Ulquiorra treated a fully recovered Ichigo in Vaizard form like Nnoitra treated ichigo right after his fight with Grimmjow. If Ichigo had fought Nnoitra at his full srength in Vaizard form then I think it would have been a close match.

And as for black Cero indicating power difference, King Kon hit the nail on the head

see Ulqiorra and Ichigo both have different ability see Ulqiorra can't use GT because that is Ichigo's swords ability, follow me. Now all espada's use cero, the black cero which is as shown in the manga is the strongest use of cero so far that means Ulqiorra has better technique! you can only compare technique if two people have the same ability like Yorouichi has better shunpo than Byakuya! simple enough for you or do you want me to go on!

Cant think of any way to say it better or clearer than that.

and I voted that Kenpachi wouldnt even scratch Ulquiorra :P

[Belial]

Knowing a technique does not show a power difference, for instance, Ichigo knows Getsuga Tenshou, is he stronger than Aizen because Aizen does not know Getsuga Tenshou?

No, he is not.

Are you dense? That's like someone being capable of a chantless lvl 90 kidou is on the level of someone who can only go up to the 60's chantless

Since all the espada are capable of cero none are exceptions either

[Levy]

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/16/

The technique focuses all of Byakuya's Reiatsu into a single sword by compressing his Bankai into that.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/17/

Ichigo states he is pouring all of his reiatsu into his sword.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/167/07/

Ichigo's attack had more reiatsu in it, thus it was more powerful, causing it to break Byakuya's blade.

Actually that is not really true because we know that even if you have more/less reiatsu, the way you sharpen it makes a big difference. Remember in the Ichigo vs Zaraki, once Ichigo stop being afraid he didn't gain more reiatsu he simply sharpened it (stated by Zaraki).

So based on this we can't assume that Ichigo has more reiatsu that Byakuya.

[manje10]

The original meaning of this thread was could Ulquiorra take a Kendo slash.

A direct hit from his Kendo would fatally injure him but maybe not kill like against released Nnoitira. In an all out fight between Kenpachi and Ulquiorra i think Ulquiorra wouldnt have much trouble.

[Soujirou]

Nnoitra had many chances to do with the wounded Ichigo what he did to Chad, but any time the chance came up, he would just kick or hit him with the wrong side of his weapon...my guess it that Nnoitra was trying to get some decent fighting from that.

there wasn't such a big gap between Szayel and Zommari for instance, and Nnoitra wasn't that much more powerful than Grimmjow, Hell, Grimmjow could almost keep up with Ulquiorra's Speed, and even blocked a Cero, ok his arm got busted but still, from the looks of that if Gj released against Ulq he would cause some trouble to Ulq, since he gets a massive boost on his speed.

And it was never stated that the black cero was the strongest, until said the contrary, the Rey Gran Cero will have that title, bacause it is a fact, it was said on the manga, so it is canon, the rey gran cero is the strongest form of cero.

So yeah, Nnoitra's Hierro was probably better than Ulquiorra's, and may even be better than Stark's, since that was Nnoi's main trait.

[pumpkin13]

You forget that Ulquiorra massively increased his speed even prior to going into his res form, upon which he appeared to get another boost in speed. GJ base form was almost keeping up with Uqluiorra's restrained base form.

People put far too much weight with Noitra saying he himself had the strongest hierro. There would be far more credence to it if Ulquiorra himself had said it, i would take it at face value, not so much if Zommari or a lower rank had said it but it would still possibly be true. But when Noitra himself says it... especially after the arrancar as a whole have beve been characterised to be arrogant bastards... That's nearly as bad as believing anything Aizen shows you when you've already seen his release.

[Kingkon]

getting back to the main topic...
If Ulquiorra just stands there and takes a kendo slash from Kenpachi he's heirro isn't enough for him to not take any damage, but that scenario aint ever gonna happen if Kenpachi attaks Ulquiorra, Ulquiorra would strike back and I think Ulquiorra has the strength to block a Kendo slash from Kenpachi.

[Soujirou]

^ Ulquiorra's lance like thing on his arm would shatter, Kenpachi is probably much more powerful physically than both Ichigo and Ulquiorra, hell, on another instances when you ppl are siding with Kenpachi and saying that he can take anybody on, i try to reason with you by showing what the other guy can to to counter him, but when i side with Kenpachi on something obvious like that, "if Kenpachi, with his eye-patch taken off, gets a clean 2-handed downward slash on Ulquiorra would he be damaged?" Hell yeah, most likely die outright from letting that happen, nobody seems to agree, because his opponent is on his "momentum".

Maybe I do watch/read to many animes/mangas where each characters traits and abilities are much more important than the "power level".

[pumpkin13]

Well, I think a Kendo slash would certainly leave its mark, but I don't think Zaraki would have much of a chance to get a second or third one in, Ulquiorra is just too fast.

WTF Soujirou, you're out of your mind. Your final sentence completely contradicts the main body of your post. Ulquiorra's power has been shown to be far superior to Ichigo's even after Ichigo got a power up. Ichigo would likely have fared much better against Noitra had he not been completely exhausted from the GJ fight. There's no real straight evidence to prove that Zaraki is out and out stronger than Ulquiorra. And anyway Ulquiorra is incomparably faster. His light blade would shatter? Yeah right, and i'm the queen mother.

[Soujirou]

Ok, Ok, so Ulquiorra is faster, stronger, more durable, more appealing, more popular, more richer, more intelligent, got more pubic hair, and a bigger penis, he is better than kenpachi on any possible aspect, the thousands of years Kenpachi spent fighting even before he became a captain, his impressively amazing reiatsu poll everybody made a fuss over is completely meaningless, the fact that he cut the Espada with the strongest hierro was nothing, since everybody knows Nnoitra is a notorious liar who told many lies on his lifetime, he lied about having the strongest hierro amongst the espadas and being the physically stronger espada who can wield 6 giant scythes and swing them like they were nothing, Kubo just had him lie about that, to fit his "proud warrior who loves to fight and wants to die during a good fight" personality

Nnoitra and Kenpachi are actually generic templates of "X" and "Z" level, who can punch, kick and shot "ki" blasts, with the appearance of their punches, kicks and "ki" blasts varying but this variation being only a cosmetic, and Ulquiorra is the same generic template, but of "Y" level, with Y being much bigger than X and Z, so obviously the template called Ulquiorra is superior to the templates Nnoitra and Kenpachi on both the punchs, kicks and "ki" blasts.

Do i need to tell which one was the only anime I saw that setup up to now?

My point stands, if Ulq and Ken were to arm wrestle, Ken would easily win, if they were beaten up by angry fanboys, Ulq would pass out first, and If Ulq were to receive Kenpachi strongest Sword attack without even trying to dodge, he would die outright, and if the put one of his arms on the way, he would lose that arm.

And just to make it clear, i Love Ulquiorra as much as i love all bleach characters, but i value only their personalities and their abilities, while completely ignoring the famed power levels, im amazed at the looks of Ulquiorra's true release, and picture him as being having top speed, good ability at sword fighting, as extremely powerful Cero, and the amazing ability to mindfuck his opponents.

Sorry for the long post, but ill leave it as it is.

[shinji]

Kenpachi would get raped by an unrealesed ulquiorra let alone if he went all out in his second form.

Ichigo has got a hell of a lot stronger since the grimmjow fight as it is seen from his two encounters with ulquiorra at first gets raped easily with mask and then with mask fighting on par with unrealesed ulquiorra.

We've seen kenpachi reach his limit and used kendo to slice nnoitra apart but tbh nnoitra does'nt even compare to ulq he beat a helpless grimm and ichigo and got one shotted by kenpachi like the rest of the adjucas level espada they were trash.

Ichigo as his the main character continues to increase in power and has surpassed kenpachi by being able to at least in some way put up a fight against ulquiorra.

And if any of you notice he gets more marks on his mask everytime he gets stronger he got some before he beat grimm and got some more before he started his current fight with ulquiorra.

I don't see how people don't get it ulquiorra is on a total differant level to the lower level espada and mid tir captains.

In short an unrealesed ulquiorra might take a bit of damage but a proper realesed ulquiorra would laugh at his best and then bicthslap kenpachi into another universe.

[Soujirou]

So you're saying that Ulquiorra is so awesome and go such and high POwer LEvEL, that as soon as Ishida and Inoue get up there to help Ichigo, their heads will explode from seeing the huge numbers of Ulquiorra's Power Level. Ishida arrows would actually go back at Ishida and kill him for being so stupid to the point of attacking someone of such a higher level of power level of level of power.

and then in a 1/1000 of a second, Ulquiorra would go down there and kill each one of Ichigo's friends and SS captains with toothpicks and fingersnaps and come back to settle things against Ichigo in a epic final clash where both are using their full resolve and power (level) and after a moment of suspense, Ulquiorra ill be declared defeated and Ichigo will have some humor moments with his Nakama where he makes strange faces and get hit by girls before moving on to the next Ub3r l337 h@xz opponent.

[Kingkon]

So you're saying that Ulquiorra is so awesome and go such and high POwer LEvEL, that as soon as Ishida and Inoue get up there to help Ichigo, their heads will explode from seeing the huge numbers of Ulquiorra's Power Level. Ishida arrows would actually go back at Ishida and kill him for being so stupid to the point of attacking someone of such a higher level of power level of level of power. your saying the same thing for Kenpachi aren't you?

[shinji]

No not at all, what i'm saying is contradictory to popular opinion kenpachi is'nt anything special in the bleach universe, his a mid-tir captain who excels in brute strength alone and against an opponent who beats him at his own and only game he has no chance.

If his strength is weaker than the other opponent kenpachi has nothing to fall back on so yeah i stay with my initial opinion against a realesed ulquiorra kenpachi is just a kitten ready to be curbstomped by a truck.

[Soujirou]

^ not quite, this topic isnt about a real fight to begin with, and Ulquiorra is just too fast and got too many powerful Cero attacks that he would easily defeat Kenpachi, but that is very simple really, im just analyzing the given scenario, that shouldn't be so hard to comprehend, IF ulquiorra was standing there and told Kenpachi "hit me with everything u got dude, i wont use my superior agility to dodge neither will Cero your face" then kenpachi does it, Aizen would need a new 4° Espada, simple, really.

Well at least MOST of the people recognize that the attack would either cripple Ulquiorra or kill him on the spot.

[shinji]

No not that simple nnoitra saying he has the strongest heirro and zommari saying his the fastest could be taken with a grain of salt it means nothing they are dead because of their ignorance.

And the title says a realesed ulquiorra we've seen ichigo try time and time again to cut an unrealesed ulquiorra to no effect.

Against a realesed ulquiorra kenpachi would'nt even scratch him the diferance in power is too vast as cool as kenpachi seems or acts his out of his league i'm afraid.

[Cloud Sykes]

Against a realesed ulquiorra kenpachi would'nt even scratch him the diferance in power is too vast as cool as kenpachi seems or acts his out of his league i'm afraid.

I agree completely. Nnoitra claims to have the strongest Hierro but if that was the only factor then all the other espada would be more prone to damage than Nnotra himself, thats a bit much for me to accept. In unreleased form I could see Kenpachi possibly leaving a decent wound in Ulquiorra, but since this comparison is for his Release form, sorry not happening, Kenpachi isnt going to be crippling or killing anything.

The power jump between the 5th Espada Nnoitra and Ulquiorra is, (in my opinion) greater than teh difference between Nnoitra and the 10th espada, Ulquiorra is our first demonstration of the difference between a VL Espada and the rest.

[Soujirou]

Kubo never, ever said that an Arrancar's Hierro us strengthened by its resurrection, i dont know where you got that from but that is not canon, Ulquiorra's Hierro is as strong as it was before, and Bankai Ichigo with a quick counter attack made a cut on him, where Kenpachi assumed an stance, focused, and slashed downwards with all his might, wounding the Arrancar with the strongest hierro so badly that the only thing that kept him alive afterwards was his willpower, Nnoitra was never proven wrong, nobody ever said "lol he lies, his hierro is not that great", it was just an assumption, created by the fans, that they lied for no apparent reason, the same with Zommari, he clearly stated "My Gemeros Sonido is the fastest amongst the Members of the Espada, it moves so fast that creates quasi-clones" and stuff...he never, ever said he was the fastest Espada, Start and Ulquiorra both Run, move, attack, parry, "fly" much faster than Zommari, but their Sonidos never created mirror images, they where just regular Sonidos, so Kubo was pretty clear when he presented those two traits of those two characters, but we, the fans, choose to just call them liars and then turn to the most "awesome" and "popular" characters and say, THEY are superior to those other two on every possible way.

Sorry but it is just something i'll never do.

[shinji]

Then what does a realese do? i doubt the espada do it to play super heros.

A bankai ichigo which has vastly improved and is know stronger than kenpachi i'll spell it out

1- A weaker bankai,vizard ichigo beats grimmjow but shortly before that gets pwned after going all out and does'nt leave a scratch.

2- A new and improve ichigo can know actually fight on par with an unrealesed ulquiorra but when he realeses he takes a getsuga tensho (which in theory is way stronger than anything he did against grimmjow) head on and laughs.

His speed and power have both drasticily improved why not his heirro, nnoitras heirro improved and even let him regenerate, grimmjow was able to deal with damage better against a masked ichigo opposed to the damage he took in his first encounter with a mask ichigo unrealesed.

All the signs point to his heirro improveing and why are we talking about realesed ulquiorra when kenpachi would only scratch an unrealesed ulquiorra.

[Athane]

This is off topic but, I believe what some of you guys are mixing up is strength = fighting ability, which it does not.


Nnoitora could have in fact been the strongest espada physically, not in fighting capability, he could also have had the strongest hierro. I'm not saying he is I'm saying it COULD possibly be true.

On the other hand, Kendo Kenpachi's sword slash vs Ulquiorra standing there. If it's Kenpachi going all out balls to the wall with an eyepatch off reiatsu leaking to the fullest, I personally think he'd drop ulquiorra, not necessarily one shot him but, I'm pretty sure it would leave a big gash on his body.

Because you have to remember, Yoruichi described Kenpachi as having "brute strength" and "raw power".

I believe Mayuri called them both "barbarians" everyone knows we characterize barbarians as muscle bound super physically strong type fighters not necessarily having skill, but just overpowering people by sheer brute force.

[Cloud Sykes]

Nnoitra doesnt have to be a liar as such, but if his Hierro is the strongest and Kenpachi one shotted him, then if any other espada stood still then your saying that they would stand less chance than Nnoitra because he has a better Hierro?
I cant accept that because then Kenpachi could theoretically fatally injure someone like Stark if he manages to land a single Kendo hit.

Hierro is not the be all and end all, there have to be other factors that determine an Espada's defensive capabilities.

[Soujirou]

what does resurrections do? please people, if I can remember all important definitions, information that were given us from episode 1, im sure you can too, a Resurrection brings forth the arrancar's abilities from back when they were simple hollows, while unreleased they can do four things , Attack, Cero, Bala, Sonido, and after the release, they get a hoard of new abilities, So far, Ulquiorra got Wings, that allow him to freely hover around the sky, unlike Ichigo who must create patches of spiritrons to steep at, along with increased speed gained from this ability to fly, the all powerful Black Cero that basically one-shooted Ichigo, a new weapon, that was longer and much more lethal, but he lost this one when he became this new form, which will probably be even faster, and get some wicked ability. So yeah, Arrancar's release do a lot of stuff.

And about the above post, why in tarnation would Stark or Ulquiorra stand still to get hit by Kenpachi currently best attack? Unlike Nnoitra, they both can sonido and got a way better mobility, so, really, why in the hell.

And yeah there is another factor to add to arrancar's defense ability, their physical strength hahaha.

i never said that kenpachi could take on Stark and Ulquiorra, did Stark even NEED his hierro against someone fast, skilled and powerful like Shunsui? No, he is fast and skilled enough to avoid damage, he does not need to tank it, Nnoi on the other hand, was slow, so he needed a stronger defense since he was always taking hits.

[Athane]

Nnoitra doesnt have to be a liar as such, but if his Hierro is the strongest and Kenpachi one shotted him, then if any other espada stood still then your saying that they would stand less chance than Nnoitra because he has a better Hierro?
I cant accept that because then Kenpachi could theoretically fatally injure someone like Stark if he manages to land a single Kendo hit.

Hierro is not the be all and end all, there have to be other factors that determine an Espada's defensive capabilities.


I don't know who or what post this is directed at but, most of you are bringing in this "other factors.


Yes Ulquiorra would fuck Kenpachi up in a fight.

But the OP clearly stated "If Kenpachi were to use a Kendo slash on an ulquiorra that just stood there and let him do it, what would it do?"


Meaning, other factors mean nothing. It doesn't matter what their other defensive capabilities are if this is asking about Kenpachi getting a free hit on Ulquiorra like how Kenpachi let Ichigo get a free hit.

[Cloud Sykes]

I don't know who or what post this is directed at but, most of you are bringing in this "other factors.


Yes Ulquiorra would fuck Kenpachi up in a fight.

But the OP clearly stated "If Kenpachi were to use a Kendo slash on an ulquiorra that just stood there and let him do it, what would it do?"


Meaning, other factors mean nothing. It doesn't matter what their other defensive capabilities are if this is asking about Kenpachi getting a free hit on Ulquiorra like how Kenpachi let Ichigo get a free hit.

but what Im trying to say is that Ulquiorra in released form should be able to stand against Kenpachi and his Kendo strike even if his hierro is supposedly inferior to Nnoitra's. He is ranked higher than Nnoitra for a reason, because hes more powerful, im not bringing into acount abilities or techniques, on a basic, primal level, Ulquiorra is stronger than Nnoitra and should be able to take his hits better than Nnoitra.

[Soujirou]

Cloud, read my post, Ulquiorra is ranked above Nnoitra, because if they were to fight, Ulquiorra would win, and why would he win? because he is WAY faster (emphasis on that), got more powerful attacks (cero, and Nnoi cero sucks balls btw), resuming, is a better fighter, but Nnoitra got his ups also, mainly his great physical strength, his high melee attack power that comes from attacking with 6 giant weapons at the same time, and his hierro, that is the strongest amongst the espada, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ULQ'S IS CRAP, it was shown to be at least stronger than Grimmjow's and was able to reduce the damage Ichigo dealt to him. Ulquiorra wouldn't need to take a single hit from Nnoi, in fact, the black cero would probably injure Nnoitra, and Nnoitra couldn't do anything about the guy that would easily dance around him, evading his attacks and kicking him around like Nel did on the past.

and your "primal level not taking on account the abilities" is the very generic template with a set level of some posts ago, a DBZesque a attribute that i did not like even a bit.

[Cloud Sykes]

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I understand that Ulquiorra isnt making any attempt to block (throw up an arm, fire a Cero etc) what I am saying is that in the scenario we are discussing,I believe only the top 3 options would even be applicable and even then, more likely the the top 2 at that.

I just dont think that he would be dropped by a single Kenpachi Kendo strike, free hit or otherwise.

[Rinda Man]

i say the strike would scratch ulq, or give him a little cut. i actually thought that zaraki might have had what it takes to beat ulq after seeing his kendo power up. but after the recent chapters i doubt he could even hurt the 4th with a free shot, the power gap is ridiculous.

[Soujirou]

the "power gap" between Nnoi the Unknown number Espada at that time and Nel, the Third Espada was huge too, It was clear that Nnoi would never beat Nel on a clean fight, but as soon as he got A SINGLE FREE HIT , she, who was a "higher ranked fighter" and all that crap, was INSTANTLY KO, and crippled forever, AND THAT WASN'T THE SAME THING AS AN KENDO SWING FROM KENPACHI. again, she was the 3° Espada, and Nnoitra could even be the 8° or even 10°, who knows?

[shinji]

Tbh how are you people comparing what kenpachi could do to nnoitra to what he could do to ulquiorra, come back to me when you can be sure that nnoitra can take a getsuga tensho head on from a new and improved ichigo just like a realesed ulquiorra can.

One last time Ichigo has gotten a lot stronger seriously alot he and Ulquiorra are on a differant level to the adjucas espada and mid-tir captains.

[Soujirou]

You said the same thing again, no new argument or anything the like, you're still just talking about "power levels" and how "stronger" Ichigo got after GJ fight.

And not even once was successful to show me that Nnoitra isnt the physically stronger Espada and his Hierro isnt the strongest one, no proof at all

now i would like to say one last thing to this topic before letting it rest, you people misunderstand the term "Strength" with general fighting ability, speed, reiatsu and endurance, Nnoi dropped Nel with a single swing, and he wasn't by no means, "stronger" than her, but why she is "stronger" than him? because she: Is faster, more skilled and got more reiatsu than him, and just for the record, Reiatsu was shown to sharpen the Zanpakutou during Ichigo vs Kenpachi, Ichigo's Sword was sharper than Kenpachi's because of his reiatsu, but Kenpachi was stil more durable because he tanked way more hits, and stronger physically, because when he held Ichigo's Zan with his Hand, Ichigo couldn't pull it off.

And so, i let this topic rest like i always do when i notice there is no point on arguing anymore since it wont change anybody's minds.

[Delta]

Kenpachi will get his ass handed to Ulqui. Kenpachi will be at the ground even before he gets to swing his Zan.

Either read what the topic is about or don't post. Currently you are simply wasting space with that comment.

Until someone can prove that Ulq's hierro is harder than Nnoi's we can't make the assumption. We don't care if Nnoi lied about his strength or not (which may have been true if he meant physical strength), as it stands he is speaking for KT.

The one point that I think could be argued successfully is whether or not Ulq has so much reiatsu that taken together with his hierro it might reflect Kenpachi's sword. (By the way, I believe this is the counter-argument for those who say that Nnoi can't have the strongest hierro because it would mean the higher-ups would be too easy to cut)

[pumpkin13]

You said the same thing again, no new argument or anything the like, you're still just talking about "power levels" and how "stronger" Ichigo got after GJ fight.

And not even once was successful to show me that Nnoitra isnt the physically stronger Espada and his Hierro isnt the strongest one, no proof at all

now i would like to say one last thing to this topic before letting it rest, you people misunderstand the term "Strength" with general fighting ability, speed, reiatsu and endurance, Nnoi dropped Nel with a single swing, and he wasn't by no means, "stronger" than her, but why she is "stronger" than him? because she: Is faster, more skilled and got more reiatsu than him, and just for the record, Reiatsu was shown to sharpen the Zanpakutou during Ichigo vs Kenpachi, Ichigo's Sword was sharper than Kenpachi's because of his reiatsu, but Kenpachi was stil more durable because he tanked way more hits, and stronger physically, because when he held Ichigo's Zan with his Hand, Ichigo couldn't pull it off.

And so, i let this topic rest like i always do when i notice there is no point on arguing anymore since it wont change anybody's minds.

Burden of proof is on you, you show me that Noitra's hierro is stronger than Ulquiorra's. Noitra himself saying it is holds no weight or importance at all with me. It's simply him being arrogant and bigging himself up.

[Kingkon]

Let me say this again, Ulquiorra won't simply stand there and take a shot from Kenpachi if he does he may get hurt or he may get injured but he won't die it didn't kill Noitora so it won't kill Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra will of coarse strike back and block Kendo Kenpachi's strike, or he may even be strong enough to deflect it.

The topic should be not be about Ulquiorra's heirro, since probably even Aizen will take some damage if he takes Kenpachi's strongest attack so far head on, the question should be is if Ulqiorra is strong enough to defend against Kenpachi Kendo slash.

[Delta]

Let me say this again, Ulquiorra won't simply stand there and take a shot from Kenpachi if he does he may get hurt or he may get injured but he won't die it didn't kill Noitora so it won't kill Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra will of coarse strike back and block Kendo Kenpachi's strike, or he may even be strong enough to deflect it.

The topic should be not be about Ulquiorra's heirro, since probably even Aizen will take some damage if he takes Kenpachi's strongest attack so far head on, the question should be is if Ulqiorra is strong enough to defend against Kenpachi Kendo slash.

However, that's not the question. The question is: Ulquiorra is standing there, doing absolutely nothing and Kenpachi gets in front of him and performs the most powerful Kendo slash he can. What happens?

[Levy]

However, that's not the question. The question is: Ulquiorra is standing there, doing absolutely nothing and Kenpachi gets in front of him and performs the most powerful Kendo slash he can. What happens?

We see an Ulquiorra on the floor cut (or nearly) cut in 2 halves.

Hell, a standard slash from ichigo's sword did cut him when he was unreleased and since we have 0 proof an arrancar's resurrection increase hierro. It is fairly obvious that a Kendo slash would cripple Ulquiorra really bad.

[NigaDem]

We see an Ulquiorra on the floor cut (or nearly) cut in 2 halves.

Hell, a standard slash from ichigo's sword did cut him when he was unreleased and since we have 0 proof an arrancar's resurrection increase hierro. It is fairly obvious that a Kendo slash would cripple Ulquiorra really bad.

we are assuming Ulq is release already right ?

[Levy]

we are assuming Ulq is release already right ?

I know that, so what?

[NigaDem]

We see an Ulquiorra on the floor cut (or nearly) cut in 2 halves.

Hell, a standard slash from ichigo's sword did cut him when he was unreleased and since we have 0 proof an arrancar's resurrection increase hierro. It is fairly obvious that a Kendo slash would cripple Ulquiorra really bad.

menting unrelease ulq is kinda irrevalant to your point....plus how obvious is it?

As far as we know, Ichigo can't cut Ulq in release form....what makes you think a Kendo slash would cripple him really in release form?....in other words, how much stronger is a kendo slash and a vizard ichigo getsu tousou?

Speculation: Nnoi could be correct when he says he got the strongest hierro of the espada....Ulq could hierro could be stronger than Nnoi ASSUMING he is a Vast Lorde, making both statements true.....

[pumpkin13]

We see an Ulquiorra on the floor cut (or nearly) cut in 2 halves.

Hell, a standard slash from ichigo's sword did cut him when he was unreleased and since we have 0 proof an arrancar's resurrection increase hierro. It is fairly obvious that a Kendo slash would cripple Ulquiorra really bad.

No there realy isn't any evidence to suggest that at all. We don't really know the size in powerboost that Ichi got after fighting JG. If it's massive then the gap between Ulquiorra and Noitra is even more massive etc.

And he didn't cut Ulquiorra with a normal slash of his sword, he barely scratched his hierro, there's no blood at all, the biggest indication is some shredded cloth on Ulquiorra's collar in that area.

[Levy]

So, you're saying that because Ichigo's normal swing scratched Ulquiorra that he can just laught at a Kendo slash?

Nigadem, show me one arrancar that had a stronger hierro released, until then they have the same hierro than unreleased. Since Ichigo can cut/scratch that ulquiorra without his mask, it's obvious that kendo Zaraki would cripple him very bad.

[pumpkin13]

however Ichigo was exhausted and already beaten up from Grimmjow when he fought Noitra, and he got a power boost since then. Who's to say he couldn't have cut Noitra if he was at full strength then when it was still before the power boost? His sword isn't dull and blunt like Zaraki's, who needed to feel the reiatsu sharpening it before he started cutting him.

[UnadvisedGoose]

He still cut Noi with little to no effort. Kenpachi is just a freak, and I believe him when he said he just had to get used to it. Its not like he's used to fighting steel skinned opponents, and we know he greatly holds back the force of his blows anyway. . .

[Levy]

however Ichigo was exhausted and already beaten up from Grimmjow when he fought Noitra, and he got a power boost since then. Who's to say he couldn't have cut Noitra if he was at full strength then when it was still before the power boost? His sword isn't dull and blunt like Zaraki's, who needed to feel the reiatsu sharpening it before he started cutting him.

Still doesn't change the fact that bankai ichigo without his vaizard power was able to cut/scratch that uber hierro of ulquiorra (with 1 hand on his sword iirc). So again, do you seriously believe that ichigo can cut/scratch ichigo while a kendo slash from zaraki would not cripple/kill ulquiorra?

Lets not forget that once you're pass the thin layer that makes one's arrancar hierro, the rest is just his body. It's an arrancar steel skin, not whole body.

I mean seriously, if a kendo slash from Zaraki can't even scratch Ulquiorra, wth do you expect the other captains to do vs the top 3 espada. Stark was saying it could get dangerous vs Shunsui while he was still unreleased. (hypothesis that Stark and Ulqui's hierro are the same) Does that mean that unreleased shunsui's strike are stronger than Zaraki kendo???

Either your guys are overhyping hierro, ulquiorra or Ichigo. Because there is no way in hell Ulqui can just stand there and tank a kendo slash. (at least not with what he has shown)

[pumpkin13]

or your underhyping Ulquiorra and overhyping Zaraki.

It all comes down to powerlevels, and how much you think Ichigo's improved. Ichigo could have, after being healed, have advanced to the point where he is actually in only bankai on the same level as unpatched zaraki, but the power gap between Ulquiorra and Noitra would be so big that you don't really pick up on it. It's all about perception. Personally I think it would damage Ulquiorra, but not enough that he couldn't shrug it off and continue fighting.

[Kingkon]

So, you're saying that because Ichigo's normal swing scratched Ulquiorra that he can just laught at a Kendo slash?

Nigadem, show me one arrancar that had a stronger hierro released, until then they have the same hierro than unreleased. Since Ichigo can cut/scratch that ulquiorra without his mask, it's obvious that kendo Zaraki would cripple him very bad.

It didn't kill Noitora what makes you think it will kill Ulquiorra?

[xBanzai89]

It didn't kill Noitora what makes you think it will kill Ulquiorra?

It left him incapacitated it almost. If it wasn't for all those arms holding himself together he would have not been able to even consider attacking Zaraki.

[Grimmjow4King]

I think ulquiora could use his reiatsu to add to the strength of his hierro, but how much damage ken can do really depends on the gap in power between 4 and 5. Only option i wouldn't choose is the last, the rest i think have a higher possibility of occuring:unsure:

[Cloud Sykes]

Either your guys are overhyping hierro, ulquiorra or Ichigo. Because there is no way in hell Ulqui can just stand there and tank a kendo slash. (at least not with what he has shown)

that is a very safe assumption to make, considering how little we have seen of Ulquiorra's real combat ability. We are not seeing him fight, we are seeing him toying with a far inferior opponent.

Ulquiorra might take some damage sure, but what your essentially saying is that one kendo hit can kill any of the espada because their hierro is inferior to Nnoitras. Dont try the counter argument 'in a real fight blah blah blah" Your basically saying if Kenpachi got in a single lucky kendo hit then the espada die.

and by association Aizen, who has no hierro, would also be easily one hit KO'd by kenpachi.
We have seen people with non hierro (Aizen and Ichigo) block an enemies sword with a single finger. Due to the massive gap in reaitsu/ power. So Ulquiorra would be able to do the same, because I maintain that Ulquiorra is worlds apart from Nnoitra and far clear of Kenpachi.

[NigaDem]

Still doesn't change the fact that bankai ichigo without his vaizard power was able to cut/scratch that uber hierro of ulquiorra (with 1 hand on his sword iirc). So again, do you seriously believe that ichigo can cut/scratch ichigo while a kendo slash from zaraki would not cripple/kill ulquiorra?

Lets not forget that once you're pass the thin layer that makes one's arrancar hierro, the rest is just his body. It's an arrancar steel skin, not whole body.

I mean seriously, if a kendo slash from Zaraki can't even scratch Ulquiorra, wth do you expect the other captains to do vs the top 3 espada. Stark was saying it could get dangerous vs Shunsui while he was still unreleased. (hypothesis that Stark and Ulqui's hierro are the same) Does that mean that unreleased shunsui's strike are stronger than Zaraki kendo???

Either your guys are overhyping hierro, ulquiorra or Ichigo. Because there is no way in hell Ulqui can just stand there and tank a kendo slash. (at least not with what he has shown)

you can't compare Zaraki kendo strike to shunsi strikes, it is two different fighting styles and sword swings.... it basically comes down to the power between the kendo slash and getsu tousho....personally i think it scratch him/minimum damage at best.....

[Levy]

It didn't kill Noitora what makes you think it will kill Ulquiorra?

As someone said, the fact that Noitora blocked the swing with 6 weapons and yet it still clearly cut 4/5 arms (can't remember the exact number) and went threw him to cut him almost in half makes me think that a standing there ulquiorra would be crippled/killed.

or your underhyping Ulquiorra and overhyping Zaraki.

It all comes down to powerlevels, and how much you think Ichigo's improved. Ichigo could have, after being healed, have advanced to the point where he is actually in only bankai on the same level as unpatched zaraki, but the power gap between Ulquiorra and Noitra would be so big that you don't really pick up on it. It's all about perception. Personally I think it would damage Ulquiorra, but not enough that he couldn't shrug it off and continue fighting.

I don't think you're understanding me there. A bankai ichigo without his mask was able to cut ulquiorra. Do you honestly believe that his sword strike is anywhere close to a kendo slash?

Even if Ichigo in bankai was at unpatched Zaraki's level, that still leave the *kendo boost*.

How about maybe Ichigo didn't improve that much and he was just damn tired after his fight with dordonni because he used his mask? That way he didn't even get a random mega power up to be able to follow ulquiorra ;)

Ulquiorra might take some damage sure, but what your essentially saying is that one kendo hit can kill any of the espada because their hierro is inferior to Nnoitras. Dont try the counter argument 'in a real fight blah blah blah" Your basically saying if Kenpachi got in a single lucky kendo hit then the espada die.

and by association Aizen, who has no hierro, would also be easily one hit KO'd by kenpachi.
We have seen people with non hierro (Aizen and Ichigo) block an enemies sword with a single finger. Due to the massive gap in reaitsu/ power. So Ulquiorra would be able to do the same, because I maintain that Ulquiorra is worlds apart from Nnoitra and far clear of Kenpachi.

I expect any shinigami to be crippled/cut in half by a kendo slash from Zaraki (if they don't block) unless the reiatsu difference is massive enough like in the noob ichigo vs zaraki fight which imo could only be Yama and maybe aizen depending if he really is badass or it's just his shikai. Hell shunsui stated he would've been hurt by Chad's reiatsu blast back in SS and Chad wasn't even captain level at that time.

Ulquiorra's sword almost got cut in half by vaizard Ichigo while Grimmjow's sword did receive dmg but it wasn't as bad, guess the power gap really is enormous.

edit:you can't compare Zaraki kendo strike to shunsi strikes, it is two different fighting styles and sword swings.... it basically comes down to the power between the kendo slash and getsu tousho....personally i think it scratch him/minimum damage at best.....

Fighting style doesn't matter, we're talking about getting threw someone's hierro. If Shuinsui sealed swords can make Starz say he needs to be careful, it's cuz it can cut him otherwise he wouldn't care and just tank the hit. Now, between you and me, I know the big 4 rulez but to the point where Zaraki's kendo would do less dmg than Shunsui sealed swords, nah I don't think so.

Getsuga tenshou usefulness on an unblocking Ulquiorra wasn't even shown but Ulquiorra still felt the need to block it using his arms after Ichigo was already tired from his fight with dordonni.

edit 2: reread the entire Noitora/Zaraki fight, and even with his eyepatch Zaraki was able to cut Noitora. Imo this clearly show that he can seriously cripple/kill ulquiorra if ulquiorra doesn't block his kendo attack

[VanquishedAngel]

It's a safe bet that if Ulqui just stood there (according to the OP) and took a kendo slash it would do some serious damage to him. I have to agree with Levy's reasoning here (except for the comment about Shunsui... I think that he was just being tongue in cheek. But Levy is correct on almost every point). Heirro is not absolute and shinigami strikes against arrancar are still going to do some damage. Ulquie is powerful but still you have to consider that when push came to shove Kenpachi after taking much damage (more damage than his adversary) he was able to handle his Nnoi with one slash. He can hurt Uluqiorra with a kendo slash.

[Oxyuranus]

Burden of proof is on you, you show me that Noitra's hierro is stronger than Ulquiorra's. Noitra himself saying it is holds no weight or importance at all with me. It's simply him being arrogant and bigging himself up.

The proof is in the what KT had Noi claim. Until KT refutes that then KT's word is gospil. KT had Noi specificly state he has the strongest herrio of ALL Espada! All, not all but the top 4, not all but Uli, all!! I dont give a crap about him claiming to be the strongest. That I can belive is just arogance but the claim about Herrio is canon until KT refutes it. I dont know why you are being so close minded about this. What does it do to the overall apspect of the story. Why cant you buy it? Ya know, you spend more time attempting to debunk Zaraki as being one of the stronger bleach characters then almost anyone else. care to share what your deep routed beef with him is>

Anyway

Noi Herrio = strongest

Uli = not Noi

Kendo = Noi cut almost in two, through all of his scythes

VGT = Uli: LOL I think you singed my hair alittle and thats it (ok, exagerated but still)

Kendo = would do more damage to Uli if he jsut sat there and took it.

[justin43]

That is the problem. You can't possibly say that Kenpachi can one-shot Ulquiorra with a kendo slash just from his battle with Noitora. The power gap between Noitora and Ulquiorra, and therefore the hierro(such it is reiatsu based) gap, is too far to even suggest that. At most, mininum damage, but serious damage is just overestimating Kenpachi's power.

For arguments involving hierro,

Lets say that hierro only uses 10% of their reiatsu.
Lets say Noitora is a 20 and Ulquiorra is a 60.

10% of 20 is 2. 10% of 60 is 6. This means that Ulquiorra's hierro should be 3 times stronger than Noitora. We know that the gap between them can be larger than this. In short, Ulquiorra's higher reiatsu should allow him to have a stronger hierro. If you say that different arrancar may uses different percentages of their power for hierro, then I will say this. Whose to say that Ulquiorra doesn't takes a higher percentage of his reiatsu for hierro than Noitora? You can't say that he don't or does, which should leave to the safe assumption that all arrancar roughly use the same percentage of their reiatsu for hierro. Therefore, this leads back to the conclusion that Ulquiorra's hierro is still stronger than Noitora's hierro by a good margin due to reiatsu.

[Athane]

the "power gap" between Nnoi the Unknown number Espada at that time and Nel, the Third Espada was huge too, It was clear that Nnoi would never beat Nel on a clean fight, but as soon as he got A SINGLE FREE HIT , she, who was a "higher ranked fighter" and all that crap, was INSTANTLY KO, and crippled forever, AND THAT WASN'T THE SAME THING AS AN KENDO SWING FROM KENPACHI. again, she was the 3° Espada, and Nnoitra could even be the 8° or even 10°, who knows?

Nnoi was number 8 back then after Nel got thrown out of las noches, nnoi went to 5 and Szayel became the 8th.

[Levy]

That is the problem. You can't possibly say that Kenpachi can one-shot Ulquiorra with a kendo slash just from his battle with Noitora. The power gap between Noitora and Ulquiorra, and therefore the hierro(such it is reiatsu based) gap, is too far to even suggest that. At most, mininum damage, but serious damage is just overestimating Kenpachi's power.

For arguments involving hierro,

Lets say that hierro only uses 10% of their reiatsu.
Lets say Noitora is a 20 and Ulquiorra is a 60.

10% of 20 is 2. 10% of 60 is 6. This means that Ulquiorra's hierro should be 3 times stronger than Noitora. We know that the gap between them can be larger than this. In short, Ulquiorra's higher reiatsu should allow him to have a stronger hierro. If you say that different arrancar may uses different percentages of their power for hierro, then I will say this. Whose to say that Ulquiorra doesn't takes a higher percentage of his reiatsu for hierro than Noitora? You can't say that he don't or does, which should leave to the safe assumption that all arrancar roughly use the same percentage of their reiatsu for hierro. Therefore, this leads back to the conclusion that Ulquiorra's hierro is still stronger than Noitora's hierro by a good margin due to reiatsu.

Just because hierro is reiatsu based does not mean all arrancar have the same % in their hierro (to go along your analogy). I could say noitora has 50% of his reiatsu in his hierro and ulquiorra only 10% (in other worlds: making baseless claims like you are).

All you're saying is speculation without any proof or evidence to back it up. The fact that noitora claimed he has the strongest hierro in the history of all the espada and the fact that it hasn't been proven otherwise yet means a Kendo slash > your dear ulquiorra.

[Kingkon]

So this thread is basically just asking who has the stronger heirro? Well honestly I don't see how Ulquiorra will laugh off Zaraki's strongest attack so far, but see Heirro hardly matters to me because Kenpachi will bleed when He got hit by Noi, and Ulquiorra will bleed if he gets hit by Kenpachi. But the point is that Ulquiorra will never just sit there and take an attack like that, and I don't think Kenpachi will do too well against Ulquiorra strongest attack either.

[justin43]

Levy, you made my point. Those percentages are baseless. I would rather say they have the same percentage than put up baseless numbers to only making my favorite character stronger. Well, neither one of us can disprove or prove their statements, but I will leave with this:

If Noitora lied about being the strongest espada, shouldn't that reduce the credibility of the statement of him having the strongest hierro?:oh: Unfortunately, you may say no, but you must see what I am saying and how it relates to my previous post. This thread will get no resolution until the hierro issue is explained fully(I doubt that will happen), so I will agree to disagree with you and everyone that says Kenpachi one-shots Ulquiorra if he stood there.

[Oxyuranus]

Levy, you made my point. Those percentages are baseless. I would rather say they have the same percentage than put up baseless numbers to only making my favorite character stronger. Well, neither one of us can disprove or prove their statements, but I will leave with this:

If Noitora lied about being the strongest espada, shouldn't that reduce the credibility of the statement of him having the strongest hierro?:oh: Unfortunately, you may say no, but you must see what I am saying and how it relates to my previous post. This thread will get no resolution until the hierro issue is explained fully(I doubt that will happen), so I will agree to disagree with you and everyone that says Kenpachi one-shots Ulquiorra if he stood there.

Noi never once stated that he is the strongest espada. The fact that he was number 5 and not number one is enough for us to conclude that he dosent think he is the strongest. He dreamed of being the strongest, it was his goal. Realizing that his goal was coming to an end via Kenpachi's ass whooping is why he started screaming "I am the strongest" as if trying to talk himself into it so he could win. Would you rather have him start yelling Banzi Aizen-sama! like pumpkin did? It is irrelevant to his remark about having the strongest skin. until KT shows us somthing else this is the fact. Why are you debating this? Can you tell the future? can read KT's mind? Do you know for a fact that he is going to make Noi out as a liar?

Im sorry but im going with the creator of the manga on this one (I thought that was pretty much common sense O.o Apparently not). Noi has the strongest skin until proven otherwise because KT stated so. We saw what kendo did to that strongest skin. We saw what GT did to both Grim and Uli, both of which do not have the strongest skin. based on that the answer is obvious.

[justin43]

Or he could be lying like Zommari. Zommari is clearly not the fastest espada since Stark showed a greater speed feat shortly after the Noitora fight. We don't know if he is lying like all the arrancar in the past has been doing or telling the truth.

Maybe I am suppose to believe Zommari because he said he was the fastest espada despite the manga, itself, proving otherwise. Same goes for Noitora.

P.S. I am sure Noitora said he was the strongest espada to Tesla(his fraccion just in case I misspelled) or was that anime.

Edit: In general, it is usually not credible when a character describes him or herself as having the strongest or best whatever. It is usually a lie. The strongest statements have more truth when someone else other than that character says that he or she has the strongest or best something.

[Oxyuranus]

Or he could be lying like Zommari. Zommari is clearly not the fastest espada since Stark showed a greater speed feat shortly after the Noitora fight. We don't know if he is lying like all the arrancar in the past has been doing or telling the truth.

Maybe I am suppose to believe Zommari because he said he was the fastest espada despite the manga, itself, proving otherwise. Same goes for Noitora.

P.S. I am sure Noitora said he was the strongest espada to Tesla or was that anime.


First no, he did not claim to be the strongest Espada in the manga.

As for Zommari, can you please show me proof that Stark is faster? You are assuming he is. He owns at long distance shuppo for sure but there is nothing to prove he is the fastest. he hasnt made multipul clones images like Zommmari so i wouldnt put anything he has shown as being faster. When you have definative proof of this then please use it as a debating point.

[Paragon]

First no, he did not claim to be the strongest Espada in the manga.

As for Zommari, can you please show me proof that Stark is faster? You are assuming he is. He owns at long distance shuppo for sure but there is nothing to prove he is the fastest. he hasnt made multipul clones images like Zommmari so i wouldnt put anything he has shown as being faster. When you have definative proof of this then please use it as a debating point.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-263-page-10.html

[justin43]

Speed= Distance/Time

Having a different type of sonido doesn't make him faster than Stark. Yes, it was a different type of sonido. Zommari states it. Paragon thanks for providing the link.

Zommari may have had the fastest type of sonido, but he doesn't have the reflexes to use it, so yes Stark is faster than Zommari.

[Delta]

Speed= Distance/Time

Having a different type of sonido doesn't make him faster than Stark. Yes, it was a different type of sonido. Zommari states it. Paragon thanks for providing the link.

Zommari may have had the fastest type of sonido, but he doesn't have the reflexes to use it, so yes Stark is faster than Zommari.

We've never seen Zommari go a long distance, we've never seen Stark leave afterimages.

Where did you get the idea that he doesn't have the reflexes to use it?

[Levy]

First off guys,(iirc) every time noitora said he was the strongest it was always in his mind. The page you linked Paragon is also one of these times where he wants to boost his *inner confidence* or something like that.

Zommari also never stated he was the fastest but that he had the fastest sonido. Until Stark shows us his *superior* sonido (it's obvious he's faster in all other aspect) the fact that Zommari holds the title is still true. The same for noitora saying he had the strongest hierro in the history of the espada.

Justin, you would rather use your baseless numbers than mine, so with both without proof your idea obviously is better heh...? It's not about making Zaraki stronger, it's about making you guys realized that Ulquiorra's hierro isn't as uber as most of you think. All the evidence in the manga shows that so far Noitora's hierro is the hardest to cut (and will probably remain so) and that Zommari's sonido was the fastest.

Also the fact that Zaraki easily cut threw Noitora hierro with his eye patch still on. Yet some people still believe that a kendo slash unblocked by a Ulquiorra standing there waiting wouldn't do a lot of dmg. FFS people, and you're saying I'm the one boosting my character for him to *win*... sigh

[Sessou]

To answer the original question:

There's no true indication of how powerful Ken-chan's Kendo ability really is. We've only seen it once and the move itself was as basic as walking.... Without more knowledge than that, how can anyone rightfully judge the power of Zaraki's kendo vs Ulquiorra's released state?

[daxrattler]

Considering it was zarakai's baddest move and he basically one shot Nnoitra with it i would say he could probably hurt ulq with even released but weither or not he could kill him? have to wait and see what ulq can do post release.

And as Sessou stated we only saw the basic stroke of the sword we don't how advanced he got before he quit he might have other more dangerous strikes (round about way of saying we don't know enough about ol ken-chan either).

[Gear4]

Hm........no offense to Ulquiorra lovers but I would say if he just stands there and allows to get hit he'll fare no better than Nnoitra. If Nnoitra has the strongest Hierro and can't stand up to Kenpachi's slash, I see no reason why Ulquiorra can't do better.

But in any case I think Kenpachi will be destroyed by Ulquiorra before he uses Kendo haha.

[Manishi Kenshin]

Wait wait... what if Kenpachi uses 2 hands AND all 10 FINGERS?!?!?! Fuck it, I can't even comprehend. Umm... getting back to seriousness - I think that Kenpachi has to hit a limit to how powerful one can get before needing to hit at least shikai if not bankai... he'll overcome sometime in the next arc.

[Cloud Sykes]

I was under the impression that Kenpachi- just like Ichigo- is always in shikai form because of his excess reaiatsu and that teh reason he cannot use any form of shikai ability is because he has no contact with his Zanpakutou spirit.

I could be wrong, as I recall the comparison was made in the SS arc by someone sensing the fight from afar.

But like I said, that was just what I thought and if I turn out to be wrong then I have a little more knowledge from the experience.

and as an aside to the people who were saying that everything that Nnoitra says is 100% true because KT made him say it... I dont think so. If KT himself, as a person, in an interview, was to conclusively and openly say Nnoitra had a superior hierro and as a result had a greater unassisted defense than the other espada then THAT would be gospel.

or we could get really really lucky and he will randomly pop in here and tell us what would happen... as if lol

[Oxyuranus]

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-263-page-10.html

I stand corrected. I didnt read that far back when i posted. Hmmm......

I still stick by my claim which is stronger but that throws things off quite a bit. I drop the debate from the angle of Noi's claims then.

[Kingkon]

I was under the impression that Kenpachi- just like Ichigo- is always in shikai form because of his excess reaiatsu and that teh reason he cannot use any form of shikai ability is because he has no contact with his Zanpakutou spirit.

l its true, Zaraki's zanpakto is always in shikai mode but some people argue that because he does not know its name therefore he cannot use his zanpakto's ability. but they forget that Zaraki has a melee type zanpakto like Ikkaku which probably means it doesn't have any ability!

[JuiceMe]

rofl is there a between? does more then 'minimal' damage but doesn't drop him either. personally i think kenpachi woulda one shotted nnoitora from the very beginning if he had just busted his kendo form the beginning of the fight. so if can one shot espada #5 in released state who supposedly has pretty tough hierro to cut himself, i can definitely see the kendo slash doing more then just scratching Ulquirra's skin.

[Zeru15]

I have voted for the third option, however I wasn't thinking really clear. If I get a second chance, I think I will vote for the 4th option.

That's because I am seeing how people are assuming that Ichigo is getting stronger from the last fight. If people are assuming that Ichigo has gotten stronger from the last fight. Why don't we do the same for Ken? I know that some people think that I am helping Ken because I like him, and yes, I do like him, but I like Ulq too and I am not talking like this because I like Ken.

Another reason was that I haven't thought of the fact that Ken was nearly dead and he took little time to strike. If he can take the time and really focus and he actually aims for the head or his throat, I am pretty sure that Ulq is close to be dead. Also, I agree with someone ( Idk who it was anymore ) who said that there is still no proof if a hierro is stronger if an espada transforms. As for that Noitora says that his hierro is the strongest, I don't think that we should take that too seriously.

[S!LvEr F@ng]

i think it should be somwhere between the third and fourth kenpachi deals more than minimal damage but is unable to drop him,also we dont if kenpachi wasnt holding back when he 1-shotted noitra

[asura21]

i think it should be somwhere between the third and fourth kenpachi deals more than minimal damage but is unable to drop him,also we dont if kenpachi wasnt holding back when he 1-shotted noitrawhat i dont understand is there more to kendo than just holding the sword double handed and if kenpachi was at max when he strike noitra

[Rosh]

I think it would be close very very close, I reckon yeah if Ulquiorra were to stand there and let kenpachi hit him he would wound him but it will have little effect because Ulquiorra's special ability is regeneration. With that being said kenpachi's speed will let him down against someone like Ulquiorra. So I think Kenpachi would lose but would give Ulquiorra a decent fight.

[RaeXaike]

Zaraki would slash Ulquiorra in half much like Nnoitra, the reasons are simple: Nnoitra's hierro is the strongest, Ulquiorra's is weaker, so Zaraki's Kendo Slash would do more damage that it did to Nnoitra. The way Ichigo fared doesn't matter, if Zaraki's Kendo Slash basically bisected Nnoitra, and Getsuga scratched someone with a weaker hierro, the end result is that Kendo>Getsuga and Zaraki would drop Ulquiorra as well.


Edit: On a side note, it doesn't matter whether Zaraki's Zanpakuto has an ability, Zangetsu pretty much said that Zaraki and his sword weaken eachother because they don't have any trust. Also, when Ichigo and Zaraki finished their fight, Ichigo was manifesting Zangetsu into his world, and they were sharing power. Yoruichi basically told him that what he did was just a step below Bankai, and that's why she decided he was ready for training.

[jayshow]

Zaraki would slash Ulquiorra in half much like Nnoitra, the reasons are simple: Nnoitra's hierro is the strongest, Ulquiorra's is weaker, so Zaraki's Kendo Slash would do more damage that it did to Nnoitra. The way Ichigo fared doesn't matter, if Zaraki's Kendo Slash basically bisected Nnoitra, and Getsuga scratched someone with a weaker hierro, the end result is that Kendo>Getsuga and Zaraki would drop Ulquiorra as well.


Edit: On a side note, it doesn't matter whether Zaraki's Zanpakuto has an ability, Zangetsu pretty much said that Zaraki and his sword weaken eachother because they don't have any trust. Also, when Ichigo and Zaraki finished their fight, Ichigo was manifesting Zangetsu into his world, and they were sharing power. Yoruichi basically told him that what he did was just a step below Bankai, and that's why she decided he was ready for training.

Yeah. So basically you're saying Nnoitra is not known to be a liar. Not only does he have the thickest hierro, he is also the strongest espada, which means that he should be the top espada right? Right?

No? Then don't be foolish and think that Nntoitra's claims were completely true. That's like saying Zomari-fail's sonido >>>>> stark or something. Byakuya effortlessly outclassed him. While you're at it, since you believe in everything that the espadas say, you must also believe that Aizen does not know of Ulquoirra's form and that Ulquoirra's 2nd release puts him higher than his initial rank of #4.

Nnoitra's reiatsu doesn't even compare to Ulquoirra in his 2nd release state. Did you not see Ishida's comment about how completely different and ocean-like it is? Kenpachi even stated in his first fight with Ichigo that when 2 forces clash, the one with the higher reiatsu comes out completely unharmed while the weaker one takes the punishment. That was when n00b Ichigo couldn't even SCRATCH Kenpachi when he gave him a free shot.

Considering Ulquoirra's immense reiatsu in the 2nd form, kendo or not, Kenpachi's "2-handed god slash" is not going to do anything.


But seriously, why is Kenpachi's slash so overhyped? Scarmask would effortlessly cleave Nnoitra in half without breaking a sweat and it's probable that even VB Ichigo could do it with enough of a killing intent.

[ichigozero]

I'd say its a very close call between them. Since Ulquiorra stated he traded strength for regen, I'd say even if Kenpachi is able to slash Ulquiorra, Ulquiorra's just gonna regen as usual.

The only way I see for Kenpachi to seriously damage Ulquiorra will be to be able to give maximum damage while using shunpo. Basically multiple slashes. But still, I think Ulquiorra's ability gives him the edge.

I'll take Ulquiorra but Kenpachi should be able to pierce his armour albeit a minor one.

[RaeXaike]

@jayshow
Typically it's hard to tell whether something stated by a plot character is truthful or a lie, but usually you can tell when something is stated for plot reasons if the character stops the action and goes out of their way to talk about it. Nnoitra never stopped and said "I'm the strongest espada" like he did when he was talking about his hierro, he said "I'm the strongest" a few times in the middle of the battle. The difference is: They're stopping the action for the Hierro line, and he clearly states what he means. The "I'm the strongest" lines are not only vague, but part of the action, they simply used it to add to the effect of the emotional conflict between Nnoitra and Zaraki.

On your second point, I do think Zommari does, indeed, have the FASTEST sonido. This is a case of where definitions come into play. Stark may be able to jump several miles with each sonido, and only be able to use it one or two times a second, that won't make him the FASTEST sonido user, it'll just make him have an exceptionally long sonido distance. Zommari was able to use sonido so rapidly that he was, literally, in multiple places at once. If Stark turns out to be able to sonido fast enough to make even more clones than Zomari, I'll concede that we can't always believe what the plot tells us, but I doubt that'll happen because another sonido-clone character will just piss the readers off. Also, Byakuya didn't outclass Zommari in speed, Byakuya outclassed him because Zommari's stupid as hell.

Next point, when did they ever say there was a connection between an espada's reiatsu and his hierro? Nnoitra's Reiatsu vs. Ulquiorra's Reiatsu is a moot point, as Zaraki's attacks weren't being blocked by Nnoitra's Reiatsu, they were being blocked by his skin. Remember, they said that a shinigami's zanpakuto is comparable to their spirit pressure, that's why Season 1 Ichigo's Zanpakuto was so big, he had a lot of reiatsu and little focus. Now, Zaraki has a HUGE amount of reiatsu, and his sword is average in size, if a bit long. This means that it's got plenty of focus and isn't likely to ever be blocked by someone's reiatsu alone. The end result? Ulquiorra's defense against Zaraki's Kendo Slash rests, solely, on his hierro.

Now that we've got that sorted out, it's time for the conclusion: Well wouldja lookit that, Nnoitra's Hierro is stronger than Ulquiorra's, and Zaraki's Kendo slash will bisect him just the same!

[Vyraeil]

Minimum damage I reckon, and that's putting all fanboyness aside. (I love Ulq... with a fury =P)
Kenpachi's uber-kendo-DOOM-slash seemed really good against Nnoitra, but then Ulquiorra is worlds above Nnoitra. I reckon it would cut him a little bit, like Ichigo's getsuga did when Ulq. was unreleased.

...then Ulq. would eat Kenpachi's brain. Ahh, the fanboy inside of me is satisfied....

[Vyraeil]

Nnoitra's Hierro is stronger than Ulquiorra's, and Zaraki's Kendo slash will bisect him just the same!

Can you even read what you're writing? Nnoitra's hierro=stronger than Ulquiorra's? Maybe unreleased, and even then only maybe, but if he can take a full on black-getsuga-hollow-mask-death blast to the face and not even flinch then I think he can handle Zaraki's kendo cut with a minor injury.
To back myself up, if Neliel has the potential to cut him, then Ulquiorra's released hierro is doubtless stronger than Nnoitra's. (referring to when Nnoitra gets owned by Neliel recently, not in the flashback)

[darkp]

Can you even read what you're writing? Nnoitra's hierro=stronger than Ulquiorra's? Maybe unreleased, and even then only maybe, but if he can take a full on black-getsuga-hollow-mask-death blast to the face and not even flinch then I think he can handle Zaraki's kendo cut with a minor injury.
To back myself up, if Neliel has the potential to cut him, then Ulquiorra's released hierro is doubtless stronger than Nnoitra's. (referring to when Nnoitra gets owned by Neliel recently, not in the flashback)


Masked ichigo's Black Getsuga did not reach ulqiora's hierro .Look that scene again. Ulqiora just simplly cut through it. And If That BG even reach his hierro than why ulqiora's cloths did not get dmg ? Hierro should be on skin , not on cloths .


And Noi hierro take hit both release neilel abilty that in anime refers hers strongest atack which ı doubt it but and nel double cero abilty . And those did not give noitra any serious damage.And noi was not released either when he was taking those dmg.

And did not get "neliel can cut noi , leads doubtlessly ulqiora's released hierro stronger" statement. Well she can cut ulqiora's hierro too, maybe. That does not prove anything .

[Vyraeil]

Masked ichigo's Black Getsuga did not reach ulqiora's hierro .Look that scene again. Ulqiora just simplly cut through it.

Wrong scene, I'm talking about the time it actually does hit him, and rips up all his clothes. He gets thrown back a bit (so okay, maybe he flinches a tad =P) but his skin is still totally fine. Hmmm? o_O
BTW I do remember the time he cut through it, so we're on the same page.

And there is no way that Nel is strong enough to break Ulquiorra's hierro. No, it hasn't been proved, but seriously... I'd be shocked and amazed if she busted his -unreleased- hierro, but to break his released.... it's just not happening. The power levels have changed since Neliel was an Espada, that 3 on her back means nothing now (I think Nnoitra said that, and though he was bitch-slapped for saying so, I think there's an element of truth there...)
I'm not bashing on Neliel at all, I'm just lovin' on Ulqie.

[shinji]

I'd say he would be able to do average damage (a shallow cut), but ulquiorra's regen would fix it before it had any lasting damage.

[wolffsAsquirrel]

I would go with wound him.

[darkp]

Wrong scene, I'm talking about the time it actually does hit him, and rips up all his clothes. He gets thrown back a bit (so okay, maybe he flinches a tad =P) but his skin is still totally fine. Hmmm? o_O
BTW I do remember the time he cut through it, so we're on the same page.


On this scene even ulqiora himself was saying he was redirecting the dmg with his both hand . Only Some of Black getsuga energy could reach ulqiora.

Well on this thread this is why ı was saying we cant compare a ranged energy type atack like Black getsuga and physical slash atack . Ranged energy type atacks can be avoid , dodge , weakened or redirected.

And black getsuga is not finisher . Especially even grimmjow himself was laughing at it .
And there is no way that Nel is strong enough to break Ulquiorra's hierro. No, it hasn't been proved, but seriously... I'd be shocked and amazed if she busted his -unreleased- hierro, but to break his released.... it's just not happening. The power levels have changed since Neliel was an Espada, that 3 on her back means nothing now (I think Nnoitra said that, and though he was bitch-slapped for saying so, I think there's an element of truth there...)
I'm not bashing on Neliel at all, I'm just lovin' on Ulqie.


And for this one even bankai ichigo slash could preach ulqiora hierro and damage ulqiora without mask. Why "a previous 3th espada can preach ulqi hierro" statement makes u so suprised if a single bankai ichigo can.

[kochito22]

On this scene even ulqiora himself was saying he was redirecting the dmg with his both hand . Only Some of Black getsuga energy could reach ulqiora.

Well on this thread this is why ı was saying we cant compare a ranged energy type atack like Black getsuga and physical slash atack . Ranged energy type atacks can be avoid , dodge , weakened or redirected.

And black getsuga is not finisher . Especially even grimmjow himself was laughing at it .


And for this one even bankai ichigo slash could preach ulqiora hierro and damage ulqiora without mask. Why "a previous 3th espada can preach ulqi hierro" statement makes u so suprised if a single bankai ichigo can.

Didn't Ichigo use Getsuga Tenshou as a finisher in his last fight with Byakuya?

[pumpkin13]

yeah back when he was a noob.

[darkp]

Didn't Ichigo use Getsuga Tenshou as a finisher in his last fight with Byakuya?

I did not get which fight are u talking about but if it is at SS arc last fight , it did not kill byakuya who does not have hierro and already injured , they finished the fight with a final atack ,and the one who is using BG on that fight was Hichigo with mask.

[Vyraeil]

On this scene even ulqiora himself was saying he was redirecting the dmg with his both hand . Only Some of Black getsuga energy could reach ulqiora.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that Ulquie had skin on his hands, and therefore hierro. The full force of it hit him, he just threw it away with his hands, which could handle touching it because of -hierro-. Then his clothes got all ripped because they aren't affected by his hierro, as you said, and his chest took a hammering from the blast.

[Soujirou]

Im glad reason have spoken louder on this thread, because as much as i think that Kenpachi is overrated, Ulquiorra is even more, strongest Espada? Vasto Lorde? hahahah.

Of course a clean slash from Ken will severely damage Ulq.

[pumpkin13]

Yeah... clearly do heavy damage... from a superficial point of view... He spends the later half of the fight against Scarmask running around with less than 60% of his body... so yeah a kendo slash would do damage, but nothing that Ulquiorra couldn't regenerate and then proceed to rape with.

[Vyraeil]

And for this one even bankai ichigo slash could preach ulqiora hierro and damage ulqiora without mask. Why "a previous 3th espada can preach ulqi hierro" statement makes u so suprised if a single bankai ichigo can.

Simply put, because;
A) Ichigo cut him with all his might, while Ulquiorra hadn't released Murcielago at all. Yes, it cut him, but barely anything noteworthy. Ichigo just -couldn't- hurt him when he released his zan.
B) The current #3, in the position formerly held by Nel, is Halibel. I think it speaks for itself in saying how much the power ranking has changed. I really don't want to sound like I'm downplaying Nel, because I know she's powerful, but seriously folks, we gotta admit that Halibel's better if she's superior to Ulquiorra... So if we can get over the fact that Halibel is worlds above Nel, then it isn't much of a stretch to say that Ulquiorra is right up there too.
C) If Ichigo beat Zaraki with shikai, and stood a daisy's chance under a lawnmower against Ulquiorra's released form (let alone Segunda), then I think there's definitely a power gap to be reckoned with there. Too much for Zaraki to overcome by using another hand when he cuts.

[Vyraeil]

Im glad reason have spoken louder on this thread, because as much as i think that Kenpachi is overrated, Ulquiorra is even more, strongest Espada? Vasto Lorde? hahahah.

Of course a clean slash from Ken will severely damage Ulq.

Because the nuke spear wasn't powerful at all, was it.... -__-
Yes. It was.

I don't know about the strongest Espada or anything (Ulquiorra > Stark? pfft.), and the Vasto Lorde thing is a stretch... but saying that Kenny is on par with him is way off.

[xBanzai89]

I realize this is a old thread, but after seeing Yammi's leg getting cut off here http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-392-page-21.html deserves it to be brought back. I am still not 100% sure, but I think Kenpachi cut off the leg. If this is the case then Zaraki can kill Ulq in one blow.

[Shiraizuke]

I realize this is a old thread, but after seeing Yammi's leg getting cut off here http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-392-page-21.html deserves it to be brought back. I am still not 100% sure, but I think Kenpachi cut off the leg. If this is the case then Zaraki can kill Ulq in one blow.

well if Ulq will just let Zaraki atk him and hit him on his head (brain) then i guess that would be effective but i guess when you compare about how Zaraki cut off the leg of yammi i guess it may be explain at next chapter or if not then i still believe that Ulq has better hierro than yam based on how they receive masked ichigo's getsuga.

The result to Yammi
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/379/10/

The result to Ulq
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/346/17/

and for the actual fight, consider Zaraki wont use any shikai nor bankai in their fight, i believe ulq will own him on his 1st release or be raped at 2nd release.

[Oxyuranus]

well if Ulq will just let Zaraki atk him and hit him on his head (brain) then i guess that would be effective but i guess when you compare about how Zaraki cut off the leg of yammi i guess it may be explain at next chapter or if not then i still believe that Ulq has better hierro than yam based on how they receive masked ichigo's getsuga.

The result to Yammi
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/379/10/

The result to Ulq
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/346/17/

and for the actual fight, consider Zaraki wont use any shikai nor bankai in their fight, i believe ulq will own him on his 1st release or be raped at 2nd release.


An actual fight has nothing to do with nothing here. The question is, would kendo damage Uli. I think its as obvious as the day is long that it most certinaly would.