Hitsugaya vs Szayel Aporro Granz(8th espada)

[Kode_Kenneth]

Just decided to make a fair match-up unlike the last one that was made especially when the outcome was obvious. So what do you guys think?

[Delta]

This match up depends on how many organs Hitsugaya needs to stay alive.

Yes, I am giving my vote to the 8th.

[Paragon]

This match up depends on how many organs Hitsugaya needs to stay alive.

Yes, I am giving my vote to the 8th.

Would that move actually catch Hitsugaya?

[Fornicaras]

Hitsugaya couldn't even harm Yammy unless he went bankai.

I think Szayel takes this.

[Paragon]

Hitsugaya couldn't even harm Yammy unless he went bankai.

I think Szayel takes this.

That argument is often used to dismiss Hitsugaya's chances against anyone, but does Szayel possess Hierro that is on the level of Yammy?

[Lnrd]

@Paragon- More than likely he does.

[UnadvisedGoose]

Well, I'm going to assume this takes place outside of Szayel's room, because then Hits wouldn't even have bankai.

Either way, I don't see Hits being able to kill Szayel. He'd have the clones thing to keep him busy, and then he would just need to catch him in a tentacle/wing thingy and thats all she wrote for Hits. I don't think Hits would be strong enough to take Szayel out before he got to use his bag of tricks.

[Paragon]

@Paragon- More than likely he does.

Evidence would suggest that is not the case.

The only attack from Renji that actually had any form of success with his Shikai cut him and of course Hitsugaya >>>> Renji and then Mayuri was able to cut him with very zero effort whatsoever.

[Tank]

That argument is often used to dismiss Hitsugaya's chances against anyone, but does Szayel possess Hierro that is on the level of Yammy?

It'd make sense to assume that Szayel does have Hierro stronger than Yammi. He's ranked higher and, barring maybe pure strength, there's nothing to suggest that Yammi is superior to Szayel in any field of fighting.

There's some crap going around about how Yammi was stated to have a potential higher rank if he wasn't so stupid, but that was never stated in the manga and lots of people say it without realizing it never happened. Szayel > Yammi. So Szayel takes this in my opinion.

EDIT:

The only attack from Renji that actually had any form of success with his Shikai cut him and of course Hitsugaya >>>> Renji and then Mayuri was able to cut him with very zero effort whatsoever.

I forgot about that happening. Renji did give Szayel a cut on the forehead. That was during one of the famous bullshit Bleach "resolve" moments though, because before that Renji was working up a sweat with Szayel blocking all his attacks with one hand and even with the back of his hand at one point if I remember correctly.

But nonetheless, it is grounds for saying that Yammi might have stronger hierro, as bullshit as it is. Hitsugaya would still have to worry about clones, and all Szayel's other tricks though, so I still give it to Grantz.

[Paragon]

Yeah Renji had one those moments. Too bad he couldn't stay in that frame of mind all the time then he might actually stop getting owned all the time. >_>

I'm actually undecided for this match overall, haven't really thought it through yet.

[Fornicaras]

That argument is often used to dismiss Hitsugaya's chances against anyone, but does Szayel possess Hierro that is on the level of Yammy?

Szayel survived a point blank kidou spell from renji that did no damage whatsoever, as well as walking out of Ishida's sprenger attack without sustaining massive injuries.

I'm inclined to believe he does, Szayel's combat characteristics are somewhat underrated.

[Kode_Kenneth]

Well the match could go either way guys. Don't forget hitsugaya is smart and can come up with a way to defeat Szayel. Besides the only way that Aporro can take advantage of Hitsugaya is to make preparations by studying his Bankai. In this match-up I am assuming Hitsugaya is unknown to Aporro. And about Yammy, I think Yammy is a unique espada compared to the others. His low rank might be due to his intelligence and not his overall strength.

[Delta]

Well the match could go either way guys. Don't forget hitsugaya is smart and can come up with a way to defeat Szayel. Besides the only way that Aporro can take advantage of Hitsugaya is to make preparations by studying his Bankai. In this match-up I am assuming Hitsugaya is unknown to Aporro. And about Yammy, I think Yammy is a unique espada compared to the others. His low rank might be due to his intelligence and not his overall strength.

Hitsugaya may be smart but he's a complete moron when compared to Szayel.

[UnadvisedGoose]

Szayel survived a point blankkidou spell from renji that no damage whatsoever, as well as walking out of Ishida's sprenger attack without sustaining massive injuries.

I'm inclined to believe he does, Szayel's combat characteristics are somewhat underrated.

You have to remember that those attacks only did so little because of Szayel's fancy little room. He's not that tough, as far as we know for sure. Szayel stated he had nullified their reiatsu because he had studied it, and so most of the damage of their attack was nullified by his room or whatever. And since he uses the term most, thats over half of what the attack would've done. And even then, Sprenger did do a number on him.

[dynamo]

If it was his room, Szayel wouldn't have too much trouble with him imo. Outside of the room... I'm undecided.

[Fornicaras]

Well the match could go either way guys. Don't forget hitsugaya is smart and can come up with a way to defeat Szayel. Besides the only way that Aporro can take advantage of Hitsugaya is to make preparations by studying his Bankai. In this match-up I am assuming Hitsugaya is unknown to Aporro. And about Yammy, I think Yammy is a unique espada compared to the others. His low rank might be due to his intelligence and not his overall strength.

You have no proof of this.

You have to remember that those attacks only did so little because of Szayel's fancy little room. He's not that tough, as far as we know for sure. Szayel stated he had nullified their reiatsu because he had studied it, and so most of the damage of their attack was nullified by his room or whatever. And since he uses the term most, thats over half of what the attack would've done. And even then, Sprenger did do a number on him.

I thought he only nullififed their abilities?

[ExStark]

My vote goes to Szayel, If the fight takes place in his special room there might as well not be a fight for Szayel will have it easily. Even if the battle is not in his room he will most likely still win cause as long as he has done research on his opponent then he will be ready for anything they do so I don't see him losing the fight. Oh and the thing about mayuri stabing that only really happened cause of that stuff he gave him.

[MissTaken]

I'm going with Szayel.

[BOssManNate]

Szayel actually might have some information on Hits prior to the fight because Hits was fighting the same time and in the same basic area when Renji was fight his brother, also knowing him and how he observed Ishida during his Thunderbitch fight he most likely saw Hits during the Luppi fight and the Yammi fight in which Hits actually used his best move so there is no doubt that Szayel already has a way to defeat most people that how shown there abilities. Except those who are smarter than him, Mayuri and Urahara

[UnadvisedGoose]

I thought he only nullififed their abilities?

http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/276/9

Nope. :/

He would've bit it if it weren't for him nullifying the damage and impact.

[TW501]

I'd go with Szayel. Even without all of his tricks, he'd likely be more powerful.

[McFlyan]

I'll say szayel because he is smart enough to find a way to beat hits.

[NAM1011]

I think Syazel wins if he has info on Hitsugaya. If he does not, it can be a toss up. If they both have equal information, I think Hitsugaya just puts him in an ice prison and is done with him.

[UnadvisedGoose]

^He needs time to do that. And I don't think Szayel will give it to him.

[NAM1011]

How much time does he actually need. I do kind of forget. I mean as long as there is water around he just simply needs to do the move.

[NigaDem]

Yeah Renji had one those moments. Too bad he couldn't stay in that frame of mind all the time then he might actually stop getting owned all the time. >_>

I'm actually undecided for this match overall, haven't really thought it through yet.

same here....i see you gave up on trying to agrue that Yammi hierro > Aporro, i don't blame you...some people assume thats 8th > 10 in powers when it really determine by abilities

[fifenfk]

I would think this battle takes place out side of that dome that has the restrictions put on it and that szayel has no pirior knowledge of his fighting ability or what his zanpakutou does then this one goes down in favour of the boy wonder.

[Feranor]

Assuming that they're not in Szayel's room and that there's no one else Szayel could use to do his rebirth thing, I'd say Hitsugaya might win this. His Bankai should be able to freeze those wings, rendering Szayel's voodoo doll ability useless.

[Szarlej]

Hitsugaya's bankai has more raw power, but Szayel is more intelligent and he has hax release.

[MissTaken]

Besides there's no water in HM anyway, so when the petals run out, Hitsu's done.

[kochito22]

I didn't see the petals in his last fight. I thought he was over the time limit thing.

[Paragon]

The water is needed mainly regenerate his Bankai if damaged. The petals are gone. Not that the fight is taking place in HM anyway, as the OP has not stated the location we should assume that it'd take place on an even playing field.

[justin43]

Hitsugaya has a chance as long as he don't get caught by Szayel's release and have a doll made of him. Can he get caught? I am undecided on that issue even through I am leaning towards yes.

[Feranor]

Hitsugaya has a chance as long as he don't get caught by Szayel's release and have a doll made of him. Can he get caught? I am undecided on that issue even through I am leaning towards yes.

That probably depends on where they fight. If there's enough water, Hitsu can simply freeze those tentacle-wing thingies.

[pumpkin13]

Assuming that they're not in Szayel's room and that there's no one else Szayel could use to do his rebirth thing, I'd say Hitsugaya might win this. His Bankai should be able to freeze those wings, rendering Szayel's voodoo doll ability useless.

Couldn't he do his rebirth thing on HITSUGUYA?

[Paragon]

How will he do it to Hitsugaya?

[pumpkin13]

How did he do it to Nemu?

[Paragon]

How did he do it to Nemu?

He captured her by surprise. Hitsugaya is not a snail and he won't be capturing Hitsugaya by surprise either. So i'm wondering how exactly he'd pull off that technique on Hitsugaya?

[pumpkin13]

he's not a snail but he doesn't appear to be able to use shunpo in bankai, and szayal could keep him busy with his clones.

[Paragon]

he's not a snail but he doesn't appear to be able to use shunpo in bankai, and szayal could keep him busy with his clones.

The same clones that hardly did what again to the likes of Renji? He won't even need to Shunpo either to avoid getting captured, hes fast enough to just counter with his Zapaktou and freeze the thing.

[BraikingBoss]

probably hitsugaya can defeat him... he is weak compared to the other captains but against szayel he can use those wings and tail to block every wing/tentacle, hitsugaya's bankai is very good in defense and i think ice would be bad for szayel's weird resureccion, i think those wings are the only problem against szayel i don't think he can catch him with that ice defense

[Rufix]

Hitsugaya, he's not THAT weak, his bankai got great defence, he's pretty fast and not stupid (after all)

[Lune]

This all rather depends on how much information (if any) Szayel has on Hitsugaya. If none at all then probably Hitsugaya as he could just freeze the wings, however with information Hitsugaya would probably have more trouble (especially if Szayel finds a way to stop Hitsugaya from using bankai).

[BraikingBoss]

yeah if szayel has data he wins, if is without data then he would die

[Captainarmstead]

Szayel is only going to win if he collected data, which seems to be consistent with the theme of this thread. Hitsugaya has shown that he can hold his own and possibly defeat Luppi who was the 6th Espada. Hitsu all the way if Szayel didn't have time to prepare.

[Kode_Kenneth]

There is something that I will like to point out which annoys me. From what you guys say about Apporo collecting info on hits then pwning him, I would assume that will be the case for most captains -_-. Soifon for instance is far less intelligent than Apporo, and if he has knowledge based on her, she is pwned. In other words, Szayel Apporo can beat just about anyone as long as he has information on them.

Another thing is the room. If most captains have their special abilities of their zanpakutos negated, how will they win? Could anyone care to explain that? Plus Apporo having information the whatever captain he/she might be, does the captain even stand a chance? Apparently this will be focused on power of the user rather than power of the zanpakuto -_-. Someone like Soifon who is said to be capable of taking espadas 5 - 10 in a thread will be pretty much weak in that state.

[Yadomaru]

If most captains have their special abilities of their zanpakutos negated, how will they win? Could anyone care to explain that?
1. Kidou
2. Get up in his face and whup his ass the old-fashioned way

As long as they can off him before he can start eating his own minions or grabbing women with those tentacles and impregnating themEEEW tentacle rape

That said, it looks bad for Hitsugaya, I think. He could win though, as long as he's fast enough to hit Szayel before Szayel hits him and starts spawning Hitsu-clones.
As much as I hate to, I'm thinking Doctor Fucked-Up(aka Szayel) might have slightly better odds.

[Soujirou]

@Kode Kenneth what you said is pretty much true, Szayel Aporro can defeat almost anyone if he got info on their reiatsu and abilities, but since he cant COMPLETELY nullify the damage taken from people he analyzed, (Ishida's Trap and Renji point-blank hado), people MUCH more powerful than him (Reiatsu and Physical Strength) can do him in, like Yamamoto for example.

If Szayel did fully analyze Hitsugaya before their match so Hitsu got no fking chance, but even if he didnt, he would still win, since he got two very overpowered abilities, he could create several Hitsu clones to fight him, or capture him with his flower, that being an instant win.

[Kode_Kenneth]

There is one thing that you have left me to be concerned about. The cloning technique he has, it can also pose a big problem for other captains. And how can you even tell that thing will touch Hitsugaya? If other captains are touched by it they will also find themselves in a doomed situation. Besides not all captains have that Soifon/Byakuya/Youruichi speed to dodge. I guess I still think he can beat every other captain -_-. Most of you guys make it seem like Hitsugaya is someone that can't evade anything. And when other captains are called upon they are able to evade things in such a situation like you guys will presume.
What I am trying to say here is Hitsugaya will win if he isn't being analysed. And can also do what ever it takes to prevent Aporro from trying to gain all sorts of advantages.....Afterall, he is smart :smile:

[Rinda Man]

Szayel is only going to win if he collected data, which seems to be consistent with the theme of this thread. Hitsugaya has shown that he can hold his own and possibly defeat Luppi who was the 6th Espada. Hitsu all the way if Szayel didn't have time to prepare.

please are u actually suggesting that luppi is on the same level as grimmjow? that's laughable.

[Fornicaras]

please are u actually suggesting that luppi is on the same level as grimmjow? that's laughable.

Agreed.

By that logic, we can assume that Hisagi is as strong as Tousen since he's more or less the substitute 9th division captain.

[-MaNi-]

hmm.. well without bankai, hitsuguya would get trashed.. i would say he's the weakest of the captains.. think everyone agree's here.. so.. no.. i dont think he'd win, granted he'd put up a fight, but eventually he's just not as experianced as the other captains, and knowing the 8th espada you need more than fancy tricks to beat him... szayel wins... even if JUST

[Spectre]

If not in Szayel' room, Toshiro might stand a chance. And if his Ryuusenka could get rid of that stupid wing like thingy, then most likely Toshiro would win!

[Davo1515]

Id say Szayel. All he'd need to do is catch Hitsu and he'd win. Plus all of those other abilities. Hitsu wouldnt go down instantly or anything, but i just dont see him winning...

[darkp]

ı will go with hitsugaya , he can use ranged atacks and looks speedy , ı dont think szayel could reach him.

[BraikingBoss]

i hate hitsu and i think he is weak but please...im sure he would be able to stop those wings with his wings, tail, sword and ice attacks

[Gerra]

I'll say Aporro..he has too many tricks up his sleeves..

[4GeTmE]

Szayel eats him for breakfast

[Intense]

Szayel is a joke outside of his room and w/o prior knowledge on his opponent abilities.

[Spectre]

Szayel is a joke outside of his room and w/o prior knowledge on his opponent abilities.

True!! A total joke!!

[Nikato]

Szayel is a joke outside of his room and w/o prior knowledge on his opponent abilities.

This.


The ONLY reason Szayel was able to beat Renji and Ishida is because he saw them fight and knew how to counter.

Thats why he did poorly against Mayuri, whom, to be honest, LET himself get caught in the wings.

Hitsugaya is also not the weakest captain. According to the bleach data book that Kubo wrote, averging all of their skills (strength,defense, mobility, kido, intellect, and physical strength, all with a max of 100) the only captains to rank higher then Hitsugaya are Yamamoto, Unohana, Aizen, Byakuya, and Shunsui. Here is hitsugaya's stats:

strength: 80
defense: 80
mobility: 90
kidoh: 90
intellect: 80
physical strength: 80
Total: 500

Compared to the 2nd weakest captain Mayuri whom beat Szayel:

strength: 70
defense: 70
mobility: 40
kidoh: 100
intellect: 100
physical strength: 50
Total: 430

Hitsugaya's bankai has also been said to not be complete yet and that he is still growing. The fact that he is stronger and faster then Mayuri (leagues above renji and ishida) coupled with the fact that Azayel doesn't know anything about Hitsugaya's abilities leave me to vote for ol ice boy winning this fight.

He's currently fighting the 3rd Espada for gods sakes and for a while he was easily matching her (he got suprised at the end though, but we don't know whats happening with his fight).

[kochito22]

The way I understood the data book, it doesn't exactly prove strength. It shows that Hitsugaya doesn't have much growth potential.

strength: 80
defense: 80
mobility: 90
kidoh: 90
intellect: 80
physical strength: 80

He's already tapped into 80% of his strength.
He's already tapped into 80% of his defense.
Etc.

I find it hard to believe that Hitsugaya is more powerful than Ukitake or Zaraki.

[Nikato]

The way I understood the data book, it doesn't exactly prove strength. It shows that Hitsugaya doesn't have much growth potential.

strength: 80
defense: 80
mobility: 90
kidoh: 90
intellect: 80
physical strength: 80

He's already tapped into 80% of his strength.
He's already tapped into 80% of his defense.
Etc.

I find it hard to believe that Hitsugaya is more powerful than Ukitake or Zaraki.

Going by what your saying, with Yamamoto, he's only tapped 60% on his physical strength, and I don't believe at all that he's weaker in that regard to Hitsugaya.

I take it not as potential, but just at where they rate on a scale of 10-100 and then averaged. Cause Kenpachi is obviously strong, but because he has a 0 in kidou and low intel (only 50), he's lacking. Hitsugaya is more balanced. Also keep in mind that people have said that Hitsugaya is the youngest of the captains and is still improving his abilities. His Bankai might not even be finished. I'd love to see him as an adult.

What the numbers mean, or seem to me anyways, is that Kenpachi could definitely beat hitsugaya in a pure strength slugging match, but would probably lose to hitsugaya in a more tactical way, or get caught in a trap. Then again, with kenpachi he seems have to plotkai armor against everything and no matter how many times he gets stabbed or slashed or poked he doesn't freaking die.

For those that want to see the chart, here it is.

Yamamoto

strength: 100
defense: 100
mobility: 100
kidoh: 100
intellect: 100
physical strength: 60
Total : 560

Soi Fong

strength: 80
defense: 60
mobility: 100
kidoh: 60
intellect: 60
physical strength: 100
Total: 460

Ichimaru Gin

strength: 80
defense: 80
mobility: 80
kidoh: 80
intellect: 80
physical strength: 80
Total: 480

Unohana

strength: 100
defense: 80
mobility: 70
kidoh: 100
intellect: 100
physical strength: 90
Total: 540

Aizen

strength: 100
defense: 90
mobility: 90
kidoh:100
intellect: 100
physical strength: 80
Total: 560

Byakuya

strength: 90
defense: 80
mobility: 90
kidoh: 90
intellect: 90
physical strength: 70
Total: 510

Komamura

strength: 100
defense: 100
mobility: 40
kidoh: 50
intellect: 80
physical strength: 100
Total: 470

Shunsui

strength: 90
defense: 90
mobility: 90
kidoh: 100
intellect: 90
physical strength: 70
Total: 530

Tousen

strength: 70
defense: 70
mobility: 80
kidoh: 90
intellect: 90
physical strength: 60
Total: 460

Histugaya

strength: 80
defense: 80
mobility: 90
kidoh: 90
intellect: 80
physical strength: 80
Total: 500

Zaraki

strength: 100
defense: 80
mobility: 60
kidoh: 0
intellect: 50
physical strength: 100
Total: 390

Mayuri

strength: 70
defense: 70
mobility: 40
kidoh: 100
intellect: 100
physical strength: 50
Total: 430

Ukitake

strength: 90
defense: 90
mobility: 70
kidoh: 100
intellect: 100
physical strength: 40
total: 490

[kochito22]

I wasn't going by that chart. I was going by this one (which I found somewhere else on this site):

Overall
1. Yamamoto (560)
1. Aizen (560)
3. Unohana (540)
4. Kyouraku (530)
5. Kuchiki (510)
6. Hitsugaya (500)
7. Ukitake (490)
8. Ichimaru (480)
9. Komamura (470)
10. Soi Fon (460)
10. Tousen (460)
12. Kurotsuchi (430)
13. Zaraki (390)

Attack Strength
1. Yamamoto (100)
1. Unohana (100)
1. Aizen (100)
1. Komamura (100)
1. Zaraki (100)
6. Kuchiki (90)
6. Kyouraku (90)
6. Ukitake (90)
9. Soi Fon (80)
9. Ichimaru (80)
9. Hitsugaya (80)
12. Tousen (70)
12. Kurotsuchi (70)

Defence Strength
1. Yamamoto (100)
1. Komamura (100)
3. Aizen (90)
3. Kyouraku (90)
3. Ukitake (90)
6. Ichimaru (80)
6. Unohana (80)
6. Kuchiki (80)
6. Hitsugaya (80)
6. Zaraki (80)
11. Tousen (70)
11. Kurotsuchi (70)
13. Soi Fon (60)

Mobility
1. Yamamoto (100)
1. Soi Fon (100)
3. Aizen (90)
3. Kuchiki (90)
3. Kyouraku (90)
3. Hitsugaya (90)
7. Ichimaru (80)
7. Tousen (80)
9. Unohana (70)
9. Ukitake (70)
11. Zaraki (60)
12. Komamura (40)
12. Kurotsuchi (40)

Kidou Reiatsu
1. Yamamoto (100)
1. Unohana (100)
1. Aizen (100)
1. Kyouraku (100)
1. Kurotsuchi (100)
7. Kuchiki (90)
7. Tousen (90)
7. Hitsugaya (90)
10. Ichimaru (80)
11. Soi Fon (60)
12. Komamura (50)
13. Zaraki (0)

Knowledge
1. Yamamoto (100)
1. Unohana (100)
1. Aizen (100)
1. Kurotsuchi (100)
1. Ukitake (100)
6. Kuchiki (90)
6. Kyouraku (90)
6. Tousen (90)
9. Ichimaru (80)
9. Komamura (80)
9. Hitsugaya (80)
12. Soi Fon (60)
13. Zaraki (50)

Stamina
1. Soi Fon (100)
1. Komamura (100)
1. Zaraki (100)
4. Unohana (90)
5. Ichimaru (80)
5. Aizen (80)
5. Hitsugaya (80)
8. Kuchiki (70)
8. Kyouraku (70)
10. Yamamoto (60)
10. Tousen (60)
12. Kurotsuchi (50)
13. Ukitake (40)



In this one, Yamamoto's stamina can be explained. He's an elderly man. His stamina is 60% of the highest it could be. In his youth, I'd say it was 100%.