combat abilities based solely on the manga thread!

[theseraph]

given that right now we're all wondering about how ichigo is going to avoid being wtfpwned it got me thinking about the combat abilities in bleach, of both friends and foes. in this case, the manga is canon, the anime, is not, as per forum rules and uh general truth.

now i'd like to do all of these, but, i think it would be better if we went character by character and evaluated the shit out of them, also general consensus will lead to better spoiler predictions.

and also, wikipedia does this but it's super lame so i'm bringin' it back.

ichigo:
status: main main character, currently, barely alive.
abilities: solar flare hair, j/k. captain level reiatsu(based on what ukitake said post kenpachi fight), stamina, zan technique, and speed, all in high level of expertise. possibly his greatest asset is his ability to master skills in a very short period of time. reiatsu control isn't always sublime as is first noted by ishida, ichigo has more reiatsu than he's able to control though he improves with time.

shikai: constant shikai
getsuga tensho: in shikai the move is blue and from what we've seen is powerful enough to damage the released form of a prevaron espada, dordoni.

bankai: tensa zangetsu
shrink the blade with no loss of apparent power, speed increases beyond flash step levels(byakuya fight, byakuya's analysis). currently, boosted to partially be able to keep up with ulqiourra prior to his own speed boost.
getsuga tensho in bankai, originally shirosaki's move, is a stronger version of the shikai move. can be used reflexively, held in blade, and released as usual.

hollow mask: having trained with the vizards ichigo is able to create his hollow mask at will, it's a testament that he's conquered his inner hollow(according to predictions, conquered so far). while unclear about all the vizard abilities ulqiourra notes that bankai ichigo + hollow reiatsu is stronger than his own. hollow powers currently are solely increases of speed, endurance, and power as evident by the defeat of grimmjow, the 6th espada.

well, what do you think, did i miss anything?

[Belial]

I thought this was going to be about actual blade/hand to hand skills

Anyway, his real hollow form has cero and quick regeneration along with some kind of projectile as well

he is also able to spin his shikai blade around at the hilt and use it as a ranged weapon, a technique also stolen from hichigo

[lolitsme]

we know so little about alot guys abilities thus far so..

[govnah]

We could discuss Technique, or in this case, lack of.

Ichigo cannot use way of destruction or path of binding. the only tech that zangetsu taught him is a nuke.

I would like to see Ichigo fight a kido-based opponent. Personally, I don't think he would stand a chance. some kido is just too god-mode to overpower.

In that respect, I think we can all agree that Ichigo is not truly captain-level. I can think of several bankai and resurection from weaker entities that would completely ruin ichigo.

[fifenfk]

As per what was seen and read his complete hollow holds a huge mass of raw power that is dormant as ichigo has barely scraped the full extent of what this form holds and is capable of but that remains to be seen.

No you didnt miss anything.

[daxrattler]

I would say his combat abilities are actually quite low compared to alot of the other captains due to the fact that he has limited skill in hakuda (hand to hand) limited reiatsu control (spirt power)and zero kido ability (demon magic) what so ever.

That being said his combat potential is in fact extremly high if he could learn to harness all that insane power of his do do more techniques even basic kido would be good for him cause with his reiatsu reserves who knows how much damage he could do or what the strength of his spells would be(the one time he used it it seemed pretty damn potent).

Untill then he is basically a berserker kinda like zarakai but with more juice/stamina. He really needs to learn more tricks from the other more experienced Captains, Old man Zangetsu or shirosaki but seems like he never gets the time/opportunity.

[MoonCannon]

I would say his combat abilities are actually quite low compared to alot of the other captains due to the fact that he has limited skill in hakuda (hand to hand) limited reiatsu control (spirt power)and zero kido ability (demon magic) what so ever.

We don't know about Ichigo's hand to hand combat abilities entirely though. After all, Ichigo did go to a Karate Dojo since he was four years of age alognside Tatsuki. Ichigo may be proficient in hand to hand combat style, but I think there was only one instance where he did fight with this style, and that was taking on the three lieutenants at the soukyoku hill.

I guess the idea of hand to hand combat may have been an aspect that KT wanted to use in some earlier ideas of Bleach. Though now I think the idea is scrapped since about everything enemy and friend use some sort of weapon (Mostly swords), and using hand to hand against weapons would be stupid and fatal.

[daxrattler]

All good points but compared to the captains who have had decades (or even more in some cases) to perfect their hakuda he's had just 11-12 years that a vast experience gap no matter how u look at it not to mention his dislike to using it in combat leads me to believe he isn't confident in his abilities to fight effectively with it (even if it is only cause the way the series progressed).

I'm not saying he bad with it compared to most humans he's freaking scary as hell but shinigami and hollow have different levels completely if only he took time to work on it or use it more often then maybe we could respect his talent a little more it wouldn't take long(as Theseraph said he picks up shit fast) just a matter of him finding time i guess.

[Thordayo]

I don't get the point of this thread. Is this supposed to be a summary of what we know? Because combat abilities are a fact, not something to discuss/argue over. Unless this is another "Omg who is the strongestz" Thread. *shrug*

[Terabane]

Does anyone else think Kubo completely negated Ichigo's bankai "boosts" from the Grimmjow fight out? Because if its meant to be an increase in speed Ulquiorra can already go faster than him, therefore the other 3 espada plus the top tier captains more than likely can as well. Pointless.

[theseraph]

everyone always debates abilities and what not, i thought a list + comments = wannabe cannon? something of the sort, but yeah if it's FAIL then a mod should close it.

[Whyte Bler 000]

Does anyone else think Kubo completely negated Ichigo's bankai "boosts" from the Grimmjow fight out? Because if its meant to be an increase in speed Ulquiorra can already go faster than him, therefore the other 3 espada plus the top tier captains more than likely can as well. Pointless.

not to mention when we saw about 20 ichigo's at one time during his little show off. he should be faster than anyone, period. oh well.

[lolitsme]

from the manga Grimmjow seems stronger than Nnoitra seems ichy could beat him without a mask seeing as kenpachi could keep up with him, bankai ichy should run circles around him negating his strength

[UnadvisedGoose]

Ichigo's speed has been overrated from the start. He is very fast, but he's not so much faster than most Captains can go at shunpo. When he speedblitzed Byakuya those two times, it was due to Byakuya's arrogance and underestimation of Ichigo. I still think Ichigo is faster than Byakuya, but not nearly as much as some think. The difference isn't enough for him to just run around and get in strikes faster than any captain level could defend against. His bankai's usefulness is the size and the fact that it has bankai power, but still high levels of speed and power together without being large and unwieldy. When Byakuya first used Senkei he was fighting evenly with Ichigo. And yes I know Ichigo's bones began to break, but do you think his speed dropped instantaneously? I don't. It sort of trickled away it seems, and that was the point Byakuya became faster than him. Until that point, their speed wasn't far enough apart to really give Ichigo an advantage when Byakuya was using a small, precise katana instead of trying to stand still and wave massive amounts of petals at him.

Again, Ichigo is not slow by any means, but his speed seems very overrated by many people, just because of what we saw against Byakuya. I don't think he's quite as fast as Soifon or Yoruichi(maybe right around their level), but faster than just about anyone else we've seen(aside from Ulq, and those who are just out of his league right now).

[theseraph]

yoruichi is probably the fastest person around, not distance wise like stark or kyoraku, but she flash steps while flash stepping, insane. plus she has those SMC steps that she taught byakuya, suffice to say ichigo has much to learn still.

[(SIC)NESS]

i think (as most on this forum) that ichigo is just in his n00b status even at this point in the story as we all have seen every bankai has at least 2 abilities and byakuya had 3.

ichigo on the other hand hasn't even shown 1 of his bankai abilities (aside from the speed if that counts as an ability) some might think GT is a bankai ability but i think it's just an improved/overpowered shikai move.
if you count those 2 as bankai abilities ichigo should still have at least 3 moves to learn (wtf 3? yes 3) his 3 bankai move, his cero and his full hollow state (if possible) i think if he put all this together he would be powerfull enough to take on at least 2 captain class shinigami i'm not saying he is as strong as yama but quite possible he could become as strong maybe stronger due to his quick development

[Soujirou]

Ichigo got the unique ability to be defeated several times actually being the character who died the most, 2 deaths so far, plus he is very skilled at getting up again and again when he is being beaten up, just to get in stance and fall down again a second after, while uttering lots of useless crap.

Easily the worst character in the series, even worse than Rukia, he likes to talk big and act cool but when it comes to fighting he sucks so badly that he always needs an external interference to pull a win, making the whole stuff predictable and boring.

[Yper]

Terabane , i believe you're right ; or it's just that the top 4 espada are so ridiculously powerful that ichigo is like a lil' fly compared to them and their speed

[manymanymomok]

Ichigo got the unique ability to be defeated several times actually being the character who died the most, 2 deaths so far, plus he is very skilled at getting up again and again when he is being beaten up, just to get in stance and fall down again a second after, while uttering lots of useless crap.

Easily the worst character in the series, even worse than Rukia, he likes to talk big and act cool but when it comes to fighting he sucks so badly that he always needs an external interference to pull a win, making the whole stuff predictable and boring. doesn't that make for great character development? often times, a strong character is defined by the amount of failures that he/she is put through and get out of obstacles stronger.

anyway, i was re-reading the manga (ichigo vs zaraki fight) when i realised something. The instant which zangetsu materialized, he sort of froze time. I'm inclined to think that this is an ability specific to only zangetsu rather than across all soul cutters. if that is true, could it be taught to ichigo in future?

currently he has not really developed the speed aspect of his bankai. it could be related to time-stopping or time-slowing. perhaps even time manipulation of some sort.