Yammy vs Leuitenants

[Kingkon]

Does any Vc stand a chance against Yammi?

[UnadvisedGoose]

Renji for sure. Kira maybe due to his hax zan and Kido abilities. Also maybe Kaien. Other than that I don't think so.

[BraikingBoss]

allon is not an espada and he defeated 4 so NO

[GOWSRB]

I'd say Renji, and only because he has bankai. THough I'm still under the impression he'd get stomped considering Yammi is still stronger than #8 if I recall correctly.

[BraikingBoss]

hitsugaya was fighting yami with shikai, that shikai was nothing against yami so he was going to use bankai. Yami can also release so I dont think renji's bankai would do significant damage, he said that ilfort was stronger but he defeated him cause of the surprise

[BOssManNate]

Yammi hasnt shown any impressive feats of being fast or having great reaction time seeing he got his arm cut off before he could even know what was going on so I think any VC fast enough could take him out it would just be pretty tough

[BraikingBoss]

that was bankai ichigo a character faster than byakuya... VC are shit compared to captain level oponents... kira was frozen by hitsugaya's shikai, he was fucking scared and hitsu was fighting against gin not against him, the shikai was not directed to him and he was defeated, obviously if yami can laugh after an attack of that shikai he is superior to those VC. Renji is the same just with a bankai, yami release his sword and he is fucked

[Hiwapi]

I will go with none..the reason is simple,VCs arent powerful enough
Of course we dont know Yammi's abilities and/or drawbacks so we cant be sure,although im basing my opinion on the fact of his encounter with Hitsugaya
Mid tier captain or not he is still a captain lvl shinigami and the VC lvl shinigami are lower than him,so i dont think any of the VCs can win Yammi
As for Renji...Uhm what? :odd: just raw power cant win a fight imo

[Spectre]

I certainly went with Kaien!! Kaien could finish that dumbass without even breaking his stance!!

[Paragon]

Renji.

Yammy hasn't done anything worthwhile since the beginning and i don't see anything suggesting why we should rate him ahead of Renji.

[Lnrd]

^Base Yammy saying wtf is this shit to Toshiro's shikai maybe. Hell, squashing Resurrected Menoly's centipede ass.

No VC except for Kira could take Yammy, due to his haxness.

I think your powerscale if f* uped Paragon. Renji stated himself that him and Ilforte were damn even in overall strength. And, no numero or Privaron is stronger than an espada. (except for the plot device known as Aaroniero, anyone could beat him)

[Paragon]

^Base Yammy saying wtf is this shit to Toshiro's shikai maybe. Hell, whooping Resurrected Menoly's ass.

No VC except for Kira could take Yammy, due to his haxness.

He tanked Hitsugaya's worthless Shikai attack, big deal. He was also casually wounded by Urahara's Shikai lets not forget. I lol'd at the Menoly reference, he beat her wow. Almost any VC could practically one shot her.

Renji takes this this in Bankai until Yammy shows some vast improvements in every department that would suggest otherwise.

Powerscaling fucked up? He said that and then he goes off and wounds Szayel and owns a whole load of Exequis both instances in Shikai. Another contradiction from Kubo. Go figure.

[Lnrd]

1. He tanked Hitsugaya's worthless Shikai attack, big deal. He was also casually wounded by Urahara's Shikai lets not forget. I lol'd at the Menoly reference, he beat her wow. Almost any VC could practically one shot her.

2. Renji takes this this in Bankai until Yammy shows some vast improvements in every department that would suggest otherwise.

3. Powerscaling fucked up? He said that and then he goes off and wounds Szayel and owns a whole load of Exequis both instances in Shikai. Another contradiction from Kubo. Go figure.

1. Shikai Urahara is on a entirely different level from Toshiro or Yammy. About Menoly, we don't really know that for sure. We've seen that numero's range from VC level to upper VC level, so.

2. He's done enough to prove he'd beat Renji's weak ass.

3.So he causes a knick on Syazel forehead, Whoopty doo. That's far less impressive than Yammy laughing at Shikai Toshiro. And, remember Exequias are formed from the power of Rudobon's weak ass who has to release to fight Rukia's weak ass. Renji could take Rudobon in shikai, easily from what we've seen.

[Paragon]

1. Shikai Urahara is on a entirely different level from Toshiro or Yammy. About, Menoly we don't really know that for sure. We've seen that numero's range from VC level to upper VC level, so.

And...? He still casually wounded Yammy and if he can with those simple Shikai attacks i'm going to say Renji sure as hell can especially when his Bankai comes into play. Unless you're under the impression that Urahara's simple Shikai attack >>> Renji's Bankai attacks lol.

2. He's done enough to prove he'd beat Renji's weak ass.

Like what? Defeating two fodder female fraccions...amazing. Yammy has been getting owned from all angles since the beginning so if thats him showing enough to defeat Renji then hahaha.

3.So he causes a knick on Syazel forehead, Whoopty doo. That's far less impressive than Yammy laughing at Shikai Toshiro. And, remember Exequias are formed from the power of Rudobon's weak ass who has to release fighting Rukia's weak ass. Renji could take Rudobon in shikai, easily.

Better than anything Yammy has shown, especially when it has yet to be confirmed as to whether or not Yammy's hierro is superior to that of Szayel's by some meaningful margin. ;) Renji being able to take on Rudodon in Shikai only strengthens my case, thanks.

[Vergil]

Only Kira can take him for sure due to his zan + Kido ... if he is lucky enough.. though if Yammy's release is a ranged one(also does ressurection remove negative buffs???) and he's faster than Kira a lot Kira doesnt stand a chance.

I'm not sure about Hisagi and Renji.

[Nephi]

I think Yammy is still too overestimated even though he is just horribly weak. So I think nearly all would will.
I mean even Rukia killed an espada higher than Yammy, ok she was nearly beaten to death, but most VCs are better than her I suppose.

[Szarlej]

Hitsugaya is stronger than Renji, and yet had to release bankai in order to fight with him. Hitsugaya's bankai > Renji's bankai. Don't forget about released form of Yammi.

I mean even Rukia killed an espada higher than Yammy, ok she was nearly beaten to death, but most VCs are better than her I suppose.

This is only a plotkai.

[Nephi]

Ok the release is a good point missed that. But I'm still the opinion that (now) some of the VCs could win with luck xD

[Szarlej]

Aaroniero hadn't Hierro, Yammi has.

Yammi would be the number 7, but he is too stupid.

[Paragon]

Hitsugaya is stronger than Renji, and yet had to release bankai in order to fight with him. Hitsugaya's bankai > Renji's bankai. Don't forget about released form of Yammi.

And your point is? Renji will be fighting in Bankai so they won't be any problems there when it comes to harming Yammy. If he was fighting in Shikai then you may have had a point or Hitsugaya's Bankai attacked failed like his Shikai, but that never happened. As for Yammy's release? Yes we can forget about that because we have yet to see what his release is all about, so that can not be a factor in this match up as of now, not that i doubt it'd change the outcome anyway but who knows...

[justin43]

Renji with bankai only should be able to beat Yammi for what I have seen so far. Kira's blade could get grabbed by Yammi's huge hands. As for Renji's feats, cutting down exequias are not that impressive, when they come from at best a fighter in between fraccion and espada level(no, Rubodon is not privarion). Each exequias must be weaker than a numero. Cutting a half serious espada in shikai is not that impressive either.

As for Yammi's feats, the only impressive feat that Yammi has is negating Hitsugaya's shikai with his bare body. That feat is impressive enough to decide that no VC without bankai can win. However, Yammi has beaten with bare hands numeros, who have proven to be from at least to VC to high VC level. I believe we can assume that Allon, who rape 4 VCs, is weaker than Yammi. With that, I will conclude that only Renji in bankai can beat Yammi until Yammi show more impressive feats.

[Szarlej]

Renji with bankai only should be able to beat Yammi for what I have seen so far

A proof? Cause Renji barely beat Ilfort, because he was surprised by limit release.

[Nephi]

Aaroniero hadn't Hierro, Yammi has.

But Aaroniero had a damn creepy ability :O...and like you said Yammy IS F****** stupid.
He would actually underestimate his opponent and die befor releasing !

[justin43]

@two posts above

Hmm, you may have a point if you assume that Chad is now stronger than Renji in bankai by powerscaling.:unsure:

[Szarlej]

But Aaroniero had a damn creepy ability :O...and like you said Yammy IS F****** stupid.
He would actually underestimate his opponent and die befor releasing !

I doubt that Renji's or Hitsugaya's bankai will put him in a grave danger.

[Nephi]

Ishida pwned him like he was nothing. Ok I know he had a gadget from "Mister new Scientist of the SS" but it actually hurt him quite well

[Szarlej]

Ishida pwned him like he was nothing. Ok I know he had a gadget from "Mister new Scientist of the SS" but it actually hurt him quite well

He made him only fall, cause Yammi is quite awkward. I bet he is still alive.

[paradise_found]

let's not forget that renji trained since ilforte. while it was against CHAD, it was still training.
and in a manga, training = all the explanation you need to get a million times stronger. renji would beat yammi.

hisagi would beat yammi as well. once he released, kzaeshini completely overwhelmed findor. hisagi had that crab runnin' scared, even at his strongest. yammi has shown himself to be slow and stupid, which is a complete opposite from hisagi's cunning attack patterns. and so he lost against allon; big deal. allon is easily espada level. he's just not an espada because you'd need three arms to make him, and none of the girls were espada because all three of them can't be #9.

kira wins for obvious reasons. unless yammy's release gives him a death-star ray gun, his slow and powerful movements would only get heavier from wabisuke's abilities. although, idk if yammy's fat neck would fit into the square...

oomaeda would probably lose. the big spiked ball wasn't eve enough to kill mammoth dude. i doubt it could kill yammy.

matsumoto would lose. haineko couldn't do shit to apache, so i don't think it would be able to hurt yammy's brutish ass.

hinamori is on the fence. her attacks are powerful, but i can see yammy using brute strength to simply bat one of tobiume's fireballs away like it was nothing. kidou might work in her favour, but she would have to completely immobilize him first.

i'm inclined to give it to iba, but we just haven't seen much out of the guy. he's like ikkaku but more well-rounded. still, allon kinda jacked his ass real quick-like.

kaien could probably get him, considering the speed he showed against rukia as aaroniero.

so three would kill him, two probably could, and two definitely couldn't.

[Nephi]

But still blown away with 2 shots...even if he's still alive that is rather laughable.

[Paragon]

A proof? Cause Renji barely beat Ilfort, because he was surprised by limit release.

Where is your proof that Yammy could beat Renji?

Ururu owned Ilforte unreleased, so unless you believe Ururu's level is close to that of Renji's, Renji would have owned Ilforte with the barrier down to begin with without many problems. The whole Renji not being to defeat Ilforte if not for the opening was a flat out contradiction from Kubo.

[crossfade]

i don't think any vc have chance to win.At least,Yammy is still one of the espada and can simply beat vc by released form.

[Darkmaterials]

Unreleased Yami > all VC except Renji.

Renji may be better whilst Yami's unreleased, but i'd guess that Released Yami can take him.

[Paragon]

Not even any point of us assuming what Yammy is capable of released as we've yet to see it. Best to keep this unreleased until then, although i can't see the outcome being any differently, but then his release could be absolutely anything.

[Darkmaterials]

Ignoring any possible release Renji takes it with bankai then.

[(SIC)NESS]

I will go with none..the reason is simple,VCs arent powerful enough
Of course we dont know Yammi's abilities and/or drawbacks so we cant be sure,although im basing my opinion on the fact of his encounter with Hitsugaya
Mid tier captain or not he is still a captain lvl shinigami and the VC lvl shinigami are lower than him,so i dont think any of the VCs can win Yammi
As for Renji...Uhm what? :odd: just raw power cant win a fight imo


raw power can't win??

if i'm correct and i think i am yammy is nothing but power (compared to his other skills) he isn't fast his balla is not so fast renji can't avoid it let alone his cero we alle know by know renji kinda sucks but his HZ is as great a defence weapon as an offence so renji wil be able to protect himself from harm long enough and with his great baboon king canon (or how its called) he woul blow yammy's cero away

so renji would have a chance against yammy maybe a little one but it's still a chance

[Fornicaras]

Since Hitsugaya couldn't even harm unreleased Yammi unless he was in Bankai, Yammi takes this.

[dakidd39668]

Renji should be able to beat him in bankai. Yami is dumb and is the bleach's version of Nappa from Dbz. Renji would need to push himself to the limit, but he has been training. I also think that Yumchita (Rei sucker dude) could own Yami even though he isn't a captain.

[Aaroneiro]

Where is your proof that Yammy could beat Renji?

Ururu owned Ilforte unreleased, so unless you believe Ururu's level is close to that of Renji's, Renji would have owned Ilforte with the barrier down to begin with without many problems. The whole Renji not being to defeat Ilforte if not for the opening was a flat out contradiction from Kubo.

I think it was just to make Ikkaku look good with his Bankai. If Renji was weaker than Ilforte then why did he get blasted to nothing?

[darkp]

Well without yammy release , I think renji could get this fight .My opinion could change after we see yammy release.

[Lnrd]

Not even any point of us assuming what Yammy is capable of released as we've yet to see it. Best to keep this unreleased until then, although i can't see the outcome being any differently, but then his release could be absolutely anything.

So this morning we were arguing about Unreleased Yammi vs. Bankai Renji then yeah I agree with you. Ofc, Bankai Renji is stronger than him unreleased.

But throwing in Yammy's release, nfw does Bankai Renji beat him. Even the thought that Released Ilforte is close to Released Yammy is ludicrous. Did you see Ilforte kill a Released arrancar with his bare hands? There's nothing to suggest Released Ilforte is close to Released Yammy's level. And in turn, Bankai Renji's to that of Released Yammy's.

EDIT: And there is a point to assuming what a Released Yammy could do. Because that's what makes him the 10th strongest arrancar Aizen had. And, Renji ain't captain/espada level yet. Your giving him too much underserved cred.

[Paragon]

So this morning we were arguing about Unreleased Yammi vs. Bankai Renji then yeah I agree with you. Ofc, Bankai Renji is stronger than him unreleased.

But throwing in Yammy's release, nfw does Bankai Renji beat him. Even the thought that Released Ilforte is close to Released Yammy is ludicrous. We've seen about 5 arrancars atleast who's level is higher than that of Ilforte (Shawlong, Edorad, Circucci, Edorad, and Dordonii) who still aren't stronger than Yammy. Or have you forgotten the espada are the 10 most powerful arrancar Aizen has.

How would you rate Ururu's level to that of Renji's? Superior, greater or close? Not a trick question.

[Lnrd]

How would you rate Ururu's level to that of Renji's? Superior, greater or close? Not a trick question.

Weaker

Seeing how she made Ilforte release, I'd say she was about Shikai Renji level. Bankai Renji would have whooped her just like Released Ilforte did.

[UnadvisedGoose]

I think people are taking his cutting Szayel for granted. Everyone seems to forget that he managed to do that when Szayel had his reiatsu analyzed and was diminishing the potency of his attacks, by quite a bit. And he still managed to cut him. So IMO, he could easily have cut Szayel in shikai if it weren't for that room or whatever. I'd say this puts him around Yammi's level. Renji hasn't had much screen time since SS, so I think he's gotten quite a bit better, even if it was just from training with Chad.

[Lnrd]

I think people are taking his cutting Szayel for granted. Everyone seems to forget that he managed to do that when Szayel had his reiatsu analyzed and was diminishing the potency of his attacks, by quite a bit. And he still managed to cut him. So IMO, he could easily have cut Szayel in shikai if it weren't for that room or whatever. I'd say this puts him around Yammi's level. Renji hasn't had much screen time since SS, so I think he's gotten quite a bit better, even if it was just from training with Chad.

And when have you seen hierro in the head area?:unsure: So do you think Nnoitora could take Shikai Renji's blade to the head?

[Paragon]

Weaker

Seeing how she made Ilforte release, I'd say she was about Shikai Renji level. Bankai Renji would have whooped her just like Released Ilforte did.

Weaker. Ok, so that must mean fully powered Shikai Renji >>> Unreleased Ilforte, thus full powered Bankai Renji must surely own Released Ilforte, especially considering he has surely improved since then. So now the remark Renji made after defeating Ilforte can only surely be seen as one of Kubo's many Bleach contradictions, no?

[Lnrd]

Weaker. Ok, so that must mean fully powered Shikai Renji >>> Unreleased Ilforte, thus full powered Bankai Renji must surely own Released Ilforte, especially considering he has surely improved since then. So now the remark Renji made after defeating Ilforte can only surely be seen as one of Kubo's many Bleach contradictions, no?

Where did you get this from? Aw okay I see, I messed up. I meant to say Ururu > Shikai Renji. My bad.

And here's my reasoning.

Yoruichi states how bankai increases one's level 5-10X. Seeing how Renji just got the thing it's appropriate to say he gets the minimum increase of 5X. Now, limiters for captains and VCs limit 80% of there power. So they are only using 1/5 of their full power while on Earth. Since bankai increases Shikai Renji's level 5X, that means his shikai is 1/5 the level of his full power (Bankai).

That means Limited Bankai Renji = Shikai Renji. And Base Ilforte was stronger than Limited Bankai Renji, meaning he would be stronger than Shikai Renji aswell.

So it goes something like this.

Shikai Renji < Sealed Ilforte < Ururu < Released Ilforte <= Bankai Renji

Now you may argue he's gotten stronger since then but, from what? He's only trained Sado. He might have gotten more adept at using his bankai but not to the point of jumping from Released Ilforte's level to that of the 10th strongest arrancar's resurrection level.

[Paragon]

So basically Ururu is Vice Captain level?

[NigaDem]

So basically Ururu is Vice Captain level?

i believe she is

[MissTaken]

With the fight with Ilforte, Renji was a 20% power. I could see if he was giving 100% all throughout the battle, but the limit has to count for something. Also, Szayel pretty much neutralized Renji's reiatsu with the info from Ilforte. Let's be fair.

I'm pretty sure that Renji, Hisagi, and Kira could win. (Remember, Yammi's dumb, and having all the right cards means nothing if you don't know how to play them.)

[AizenvsUrahara]

yammy whit his raw power could win if he was`t that stupid but i have to say that he`ll probably loose since he`s outclassed in brains

[UnadvisedGoose]

And when have you seen hierro in the head area?:unsure: So do you think Nnoitora could take Shikai Renji's blade to the head?

Umm, hierro is your skin. Im pretty sure you have skin on your head. . . So actually, the only person I haven't seen with hierro on their head is AA.

And yes of course I do, without sustaining damage. But Noitra >>>>>>>Yammi, so thats quite irrelevant.

[Alan the Cowboy Killer]

I'm seeing the Nappa comparison being made in the point of showing Yammy is a dumb brute, but let's also remember that despite his stupidity Nappa killed off three guys and was about to finish off two more.

Even though we haven't seen Yammy's release, imo it's unlikely we'll be seeing a drastic change in his fighting style. Yammy is all about overwhelming power and tanking it; a lower-grade Nnoitra. I would expect his release to build upon that.

So no, I don't see any VCs being able to overwhelm Yammy. Melee attacks from VCs would be useless: a bankai-level Ichigo can cut his arm off and Yoruichi can bruise him up pretty damn good, but both are at levels far beyond VCs. Only thing that can probably do some great damage is hihio zabimaru, but what about when Yammy releases? Zabimaru is still a relatively week bankai; one of Szayel's "guards" was able to take a hit from it head on
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/293/05/

I've always thought of the Espada as the point where the power-level required to defeat them is at least that of a Captain, regardless if you possess a bankai, like Renji, or possess a hax ability, like Kira (I've always found kira a bit overrated, but that deserves another thread). What makes a captain a captain is that, if one of their ways of approaching an enemy fails, they can just try another means of attack.

To be a captain in SS, you are recognized as having a balance of the four disciplines, (of course Zaraki is the exception, isn't he always?). Right now, none of the VCs haven't achieved that balance. They may be powerful in one disciple, but it can't make up for their lacking in another in order to overcome Yammy. Renji has a bankai, but can't do jack shit in kidou. Kira has a wonderful shikai ability, but can be easily unnerved if he sees things aren't favouring his way. Hisagi is probably the most balanced of all VCs, but he simply isn't powerful enough.

Yammy may be ranked last in the Espada, but he's still an Espada, and that puts him above any VC for me.

[Lnrd]

Umm, hierro is your skin. Im pretty sure you have skin on your head. . . So actually, the only person I haven't seen with hierro on their head is AA.

And yes of course I do, without sustaining damage. But Noitra >>>>>>>Yammi, so thats quite irrelevant.

Come on now. Remember the whole reason why Nnoitora dodged Kenpachi's attack when he was pinned to the ground? He dodged because the head is obviously a soft spot in hierro.

When we see other arrancar start blocking zans with their heads then I'll believe you.:wacko:

[Paragon]

The majority of of Yoruichi's blows to Yammy where to the head and she ended up in bandages, so obviously there is hierro on the arrancar's head as well. Its pretty random thinking to assume that is not the case, hierro is on skin, thus hierro is on head. Pretty simple really.

Nnoitra dodging the attack was totally normal because if Kenpachi just so happened to cut him then, he'd die almost immediately from being stabbed through the brain. So of course Nnoitra is not going to remain relaxed and rely on his hierro on that occasion, its too much of a risk.

I lol'd at arrancars blocking Zanpaktou attacks with their heads. Obviously thats never going to happen.

i believe she is

Do you believe she can fight on par with SS Shikai Ichigo(before Bankai training and minus Kenpachi fight)?

[Lnrd]

That's what I'm saying, hierro on the head area is softer than the hierro on the chest, arms, and legs.

At that point in the fight Kenpachi couldn't cut Nnoitora. So if his hierro was equal on every single part of his body he could have just let Kenpachi stab him through the head since he would have known Kenpachi couldn't cut him.. Which we know that wouldn't have been the case.

[Kingkon]

That's what I'm saying, hierro on the head area is softer than the hierro on the chest, arms, and legs.

At that point in the fight Kenpachi couldn't cut Nnoitora. So if his hierro was equal on every single part of his body he could have just let Kenpachi stab him through the head. Which we know that wouldn't have been the case.
at that time he also explained that its natural reaction for somebody to dodge an attack... and why would the heirro in your head be any softer?

[Lnrd]

It's retarded to think Nnoitora could have taken Kenpachi's blade to the head and it just bounced off. Come on use some common sense.

[Kingkon]

It's retarded to think Nnoitora could have taken Kenpachi's blade to the head and it just bounced off. Come on use some common sense.

and yet he did (right through his head actually) then stab Kenpachi through the chest! and how the hell does that mean the heirro in your head is weaker?

[Lnrd]

Yeah he got stabbed through his hollow hole genius.

[Paragon]

It's retarded to think Nnoitora could have taken Kenpachi's blade to the head and it just bounced off. Come on use some common sense.

Whats retarded is acting like there is weaker hierro on their head. Seriously why would he stand there and take a blow to the head when it could be fatal no matter how good the hierro may be? Nnoitra's dumb, but not dumb enough to rely on his hierro when someone is aiming for his head especially when Kenpachi's swings were slowly adapting to his hierro. Now thats use of one's common sense.

[Lnrd]

Okay, remember this.

The Ikkaku-Edorad fight. Sealed Ikkaku couldn't cut through Edorad Hierro located on his hands, yet he puts a huge gash on his face forcing him to release while sealed.

That's an example of Body Hierro > Head Hierro.

Yet, you can't give one instance of them being equal.

[Paragon]

Okay, remember this.

The Ikkaku-Edorad fight. Sealed Ikkaku couldn't cut through Edorad Hierro located on his hands, yet he puts a huge gash on his face forcing him to release while sealed.

That's an example of Body Hierro > Head Hierro.

Yet, you can't give one instance of them being equal.

You do realise the level of that attack was completely and utterly different to when they first started fighting? In fact Ikkaku was going to cut Edorad arm off(note: not his head) at one stage but Edorad quickly drew his Zanpaktou as he knew he was in trouble. So in other words just like Kenpachi got used to Nnoitra's hierro, Ikkaku got used to Edorad's hierro.

Now my example, is when Yoruichi was using Yammy as a punching bag. The majority of the blows where to his head area yet we never saw her saying his head was softer than everywhere else, no. The hierro was equal everywhere.

[fifenfk]

Renji would take him as yammy has strength but thats about it.All renji has to do is fight smart and use zabimaru full capabilities and not just throw him like a whip...like wrap zabimaru around yammy like he did szayel and and in the process have zabimaru charge a baboon canon and at the point of complete coil up BANG release the canon.

[Lnrd]

@Paragon- I see what your saying but how does that disprove there being stronger hierro on the rest of the body compared to the head. I said there was some but not as strong as the rest of the body. So it makes sense it still hurt Yoruichi.

Again, unless we see arrancar start bouncing swords off their heads then Renji's scratching of Syazel's head holds no weight with me. I'm just going to leave it at that.

EDIT: Didn't Nell get fucked up via head shot by Nnoitora, 8th espada, years ago. Yet, we see her blocking his zan, now 5th espada, with her foot.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

It would take a bankai user to beat yammy...Renji out of the choices...Ikkaku's bankai could beat him(if he's progressed with it) and depending on Yumachika's zan(if it can steal and/of how much of Yammy's energy it could steal) could win

[Paragon]

@Paragon- I see what your saying but how does that disprove there being stronger hierro on the rest of the body compared to the head. I said there was some but not as strong as the rest of the body. So it makes sense it still hurt Yoruichi.

Again, unless we see arrancar start bouncing swords off their heads then Renji's scratching of Syazel's head holds no weight with me. I'm just going to leave it at that.

EDIT: Didn't Nell get fucked up via head shot by Nnoitora,8th espada, years ago. Yet, we see her blocking his zan, now 5th espada, with her foot.

There is no proof that the hierro is weaker on the head area than on the rest of the body. The Edorad and Yammy cases are pretty much both key examples. An arrancar will always defend their head against a strong opponent no matter how good their hierro may be because should that opponent just somehow manage to succeed is doing damage to their head, they'd be dead and that'll be that.

Of course it'd hold no weight to you because if it did it won't benefit your argument. What you're asking for is utterly ridiculous as we'd more than likely never see an arrancar just stand there taking blows to their head and you know this.

Nnoitra targetted Nel's mask. A hollow mask has no skin, thus no hierro.

[Lnrd]

There is skin under the mask.:wacko: That is what Nnoitora so easily cut through.

[Paragon]

There is skin under the mask.:wacko: That is what Nnoitora so easily cut through.

A chunk of her mask had been forcefully removed, considering that the mask is attached to her head like a nail is to a finger or toe and contains a certain degree of reiatsu it is no surprise that she bled. Not to mention Nnoitra had faced off against Nel on more than one occasion, clearly after a certain period of time he would have gathered what it takes to cut her regardless of where he chose to strike, especially when dealing with a surprise attack. You could almost compare this to when Tousen cleaved off Grimmjow's arm with ease.

[TW501]

I doubt that any of them could really beat him, but I think that Renji and Hisagi (maybe a couple others) could at least put up a decent fight.

[Lnrd]

1. A chunk of her mask had been forcefully removed, considering that the mask is attached to her head like a nail is to a finger or toe and contains a certain degree of reiatsu it is no surprise that she bled.

2. Not to mention Nnoitra had faced off against Nel on more than one occasion, clearly after a certain period of time he would have gathered what it takes to cut her regardless of where he chose to strike, especially when dealing with a surprise attack.

3. You could almost compare this to when Tousen cleaved off Grimmjow's arm with ease.

1. It wasn't forcefully removed, it was forcefully cut through. It wasnt like he teared her mask off with his bare hands. He sliced through the mask, cutting through the hierro of her forehead. And, where did you get the mask containing reiatsu? Out of thin air I guess.

2. Yet we see in their recent battle she blocks his zan with her foot. And, So what if it was a surprise attack. Hierro doesn't have an on/off switch.

3. We don't have even an hint to Tosen fighting/sparring with Grimmjow on more than 1 occasion. Tosen cut his arm off because the reiatsu surrounding his zan was more than the reiatsu on the layer off Grimm's skin. Like Kenpachi explained to Ichigo, "When two reiatsu collide the weaker one loses. Meaning the reiatsu surronding your blade is weaker than the reiatsu I leak subconsciously".

[UnadvisedGoose]

Regardless, its logical to assume that without Szayel's reiatsu dampening thing, Renji could've probably cut him, anywhere on his body, and without the supreme effort. Therefore, I don't think its out of the question for him to hurt Yammi in his shikai state. It would take some work, but its not like Yammi will just be able sit there and take any strikes he wants without getting his zan out to defend himself.

[Paragon]

1. It wasn't forcefully removed, it was forcefully cut through. It wasnt like he teared her mask off with his bare hands. He sliced through the mask, cutting through the hierro of her forehead. And, where did you get the mask containing reiatsu? Out of thin air I guess.

Whether a chunk of her mask was forcefully removed or forcefully cut off is irrelevant, as the result is essentially the same. Oh and as for he reiatsu part, where did i get that info from? Surely not thin air, but from the manga.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/295/03/

So as you see, her having a chunk of her mask cleaved off did effect her reiatsu and in a big way. Kinda why she couldn't maintain her adult form when protecting Ichigo. So this example you're using really doesn't help your case.

2. Yet we see in their recent battle she blocks his zan with her foot. And, So what if it was a surprise attack. Hierro doesn't have an on/off switch.

There is difference between waiting in the wings for a time to strike with an attack capable enough to pierce through one's hierro than when one is in the midst of battle and getting speedblitzed all over the place. Does Tousen's casual Zanpaktou swing own Ichigo's Bankai attacks, including a fully resolved Getsuga Tenshou?

3. We don't have even an hint to Tosen fighting/sparring with Grimmjow on more than 1 occasion. Tosen cut his arm off because the reiatsu surrounding his zan was more than the reiatsu on the layer off Grimm's skin. Like Kenpachi explained to Ichigo, "When two reiatsu collide the weaker one loses. Meaning the reiatsu surronding your blade is weaker than the reiatsu I leak subconsciously".

So Tousen's subconscious leaking reiatsu owns Bankai Ichigo's?

[Lnrd]

1. Whether a chunk of her mask was forcefully removed or forcefully cut off is irrelevant, as the result is essentially the same. Oh and as for he reiatsu part, where did i get that info from? Surely not thin air, but from the manga.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/295/03/

So as you see, her having a chunk of her mask cleaved off did effect her reiatsu and in a big way. Kinda why she couldn't maintain her adult form when protecting Ichigo. So this example you're using really doesn't help your case.



2. There is difference between waiting in the wings for a time to strike with an attack capable enough to pierce through one's hierro than when one is in the midst of battle and getting speedblitzed all over the place. Does Tousen's casual Zanpaktou swing own Ichigo's Bankai attacks, including a fully resolved Getsuga Tenshou?



3. So Tousen's subconscious leaking reiatsu owns Bankai Ichigo's?

1. Her mask restricted the reiatsu of her body. It didn't have reiatsu in it itself. For example, blood isn't on the outside layer of your skin. It is found in the tissue under the skin. The skin restricts the blood from just coming out. The outside layer of skin doesn't have blood in it. It has it under it.

EDIT: Notice how that page you provided said through the wound on the mask. Meaning the reiatsu didn't orginate there.

Another example- Her mask is a band-aid. If the cut is leaking blood (reiatsu) the band-aid is there to stop it. If there is an incision on the band-aid it can't stop the blood (reiatsu) from pouring out.

2. Well could Bankai Ichigo cut Grimmjow? Last time I checked, no. Tosen's serious sealed zanpaktou swing packs more of a punch, yes. It's obvious he's gotten much stronger since SS arc by training or just limiting himself back then.

3. No, Why did you ask that? Tosen doesn't leak reiatsu. Tosen's "applied reiatsu" is greater than Bankai Ichigo's at that time "applied reiatsu", yes.

[Paragon]

Your Nel band-aid theory only strengthens my case. Whichever way you look at it, Nel's mask contains no hierro. It has a chunk chopped off thus her head starts bleeding, even if you choose to not accept that the fact that it caused her reiatsu to leak automatically decreases her hierro. And now we move back to the whole hierro being weaker in the head area, if that was your proof then it has been quite refuted. We have so many examples not backing your case:

* Szayel's gets wounded by Ishida and Renji, is the majority of the damage in the head area? No. Its all over.

* Yoruichi beats Yammy almost to a pulp, majority of the hits being in the head area. She was quick to analysis an arrancar's hierro whilst in bandages, but sure as hell didn't mention anything about Yammy's hierro being weaker in the head area. No surprises there.

* Edorad was about to lose an arm during the early stages of his fight against Ikkaku, he quickly defends himself with his Zanpaktou and later Ikkaku deals a serious attack to Edorad's face. On both instances the hierro can not be claimed as weaker in one area than the other.

And i could go on. The evidence that the hierro is weaker in the head area is extremely lacking and if Nel is your only example then it sure as hell doesn't beat all of my pieces of evidence that would suggest otherwise to your claims.

[redfable]

no one.... leave it at that

[Gerra]

I'm thinking none, maybe only Renji stands a chance..

[(SIC)NESS]

people saying kira's the one nooo way partnah kira's shikai haxx mode only works on weapons till now we have only seen 1 espada with his weapon in released form so i don't think yammy has a weapon if unreleased so kira doe'sn't have shit on him

if anyone renji would be our man i personally think renji would be able cuz he has alot of power but no style, tactics or thoughts if he had that he'd whoop his number 10 ass

[Levy]

people saying kira's the one nooo way partnah kira's shikai haxx mode only works on weapons till now we have only seen 1 espada with his weapon in released form so i don't think yammy has a weapon if unreleased so kira doe'sn't have shit on him

if anyone renji would be our man i personally think renji would be able cuz he has alot of power but no style, tactics or thoughts if he had that he'd whoop his number 10 ass

kira's sword worked on that birdy arrancar's body

[Captainarmstead]

I'm not voting in the poll, just with my response: Ikkaku... Maybe just being fanboyish, but if brute force is required than that is the person to do it.

[Kingkon]

I'm not voting in the poll, just with my response: Ikkaku... Maybe just being fanboyish, but if brute force is required than that is the person to do it.

Ikkaku lost to a fraccion and barely defeated another when he used his bankai so no not a chance.

[JuiceMe]

rofl yeah! another Ikkaku supporter ^^ lols. his bankai pawns ! hehe . but in all seriousness, I'm a bit curious as to why Oomaeda or Hinamori is even in the poll O_O they have about as much fighting chance as like Hits to Aizen.

but wasn't kaien hinted to be relatively strong? I don't think any one on that list can match yama sword for sword. It would have to be like.. Bankai Ikkaku and Bankai Renji for it to be good fight I'm guessing.

[Davo1515]

I'd say Renji and Kira could beat Yammy. Though, since we've hardly seen Yammy and havent seen his release at all, it's hard to say...

[btill9000]

Yammy is strong enough to be any non-captain class person in the manga.

[kaname95]

No vice captain has shown that they have what it takes(IMO) to stand up to unreleased Yammy.In fact he did not even draw his zan against Urahara using shikai, so i doubt he would have any problems against Vice captains.

[Hitsugaya_Hinamori]

I think hinamori or Renji.Hinamori because she has major kido powers.Renji because

He has bankai and some kido

[Rosh]

I think if kaien was alive he might be able to do it and probably Izuru or Hisagi other then them I dont think anyone else has a chance.

[ш『††Shinigami††』ш]

No VC is strong enough. Espadas are above average captain-level league, and probably the only Shinigami that is not a captain that can injure Yammy would be Ikkaku atm because Houzukimaru in bankai state is pwnzome, it managed to defeat one of Grimmjow's Fraccion (Edrad) in one hit. Though Renji managed to defeat Grimmjow's Fraccion as well, he needed alot of effort.

[kaname95]

^^ I almost totally agree.No vice captain has the strength to beat an espada.Also even if Ikkaku sure bankai he MIGHT be able to harm Yammy but i doubt he would be able to beat him.

[kochito22]

I think hinamori or Renji.Hinamori because she has major kido powers.Renji because

He has bankai and some kido

Hinamori fails at life. Renji embarasses himself whenever he tries to use kido. Remember when he tried to use kido to make a light when they first reached Las Noches?

[RsR]

NONE- IMO
Even Yoruichi got hurt attacking him physically.

[kochito22]

No VC is strong enough. Espadas are above average captain-level league, and probably the only Shinigami that is not a captain that can injure Yammy would be Ikkaku atm because Houzukimaru in bankai state is pwnzome, it managed to defeat one of Grimmjow's Fraccion (Edrad) in one hit. Though Renji managed to defeat Grimmjow's Fraccion as well, he needed alot of effort.

That's odd. I remember Kenpachi beating Nnoitrra. I remember Byakuya beating Zommari. Didn't Mayuri beat Szayel? That's 3 captains who have beaten an espada. How are espada above average captain-level shinigami?

Also, Renji has managed to injure an Espada. Szayel has pretty bruised once Renji's kido spell exploded in his face so Ikkaku's not the only one who can do it.

Holy shit, Rukia beat an espada! Her attack not only injured him, it killed him. Rukia doesn't strike me as a captain class shinigami yet her shikai attack pierced the head of a released espada.

[Rosh]

That's odd. I remember Kenpachi beating Nnoitrra. I remember Byakuya beating Zommari. Didn't Mayuri beat Szayel? That's 3 captains who have beaten an espada. How are espada above average captain-level shinigami?

Also, Renji has managed to injure an Espada. Szayel has pretty bruised once Renji's kido spell exploded in his face so Ikkaku's not the only one who can do it.

Holy shit, Rukia beat an espada! Her attack not only injured him, it killed him. Rukia doesn't strike me as a captain class shinigami yet her shikai attack pierced the head of a released espada.

agreed, there are a few non captain class shinigami that are on par with espada's.

[Athane]

I'd say Kaien if he were still Alive.

[Rosh]

I'd say Kaien if he were still Alive.

agreed kaien was very skilled and knowledgeable

[jackson Briggs]

I love kaien!!!

[Delta]

For those who say Kaien, wasn't he the one who got killed by a non-Espada/Adjuha hollow?

[jayshow]

I believe anyone could beat anyone. It's Kubo's story anyways. When he decides that the shinigami must win, the arrancar is suddenly so freaking dumb and dies a pathetic death. Even if their reiatsu's are worlds apart, it means nothing. The good side will always win.

Expect Rukia to stomp Yammi and Toushiro to destroy Halibel. Everything is freaking plotkai and laughable anyways.

We just read for the shits and giggles, and to admire the pretty artwork. Those who try to make 100% sense of everything just end up looking foolish since this manga is character-driven and NOT plot-driven. Essentially, anyone could be overpowered and nerfed at anytime - depending on the situation in which the character has to win or lose.

[Zaylen]

Renji could win him with not such effort. xD

I think you forgot ikkaku ?

[kochito22]

No. Ikakku isn't a lieutenant.

[Rosh]

Renji could win him with not such effort. xD

I think you forgot ikkaku ?

I dont think Renji can, he would give him a good fight but he wont win. I say that because he barely just beat Grimmjows fraccion Ilfort grantz and the current Yammy is stronger from before, as much as i hate to admit it Renji woudnt beat Yammy.

side note: Yammy sucks

[ichigozero]

Can't say for sure. We havent seen Yammy's full extent of his powers so it's going to be hard to identify his flaws. The only obvious flaw we've seen is his weak brain..

[Zaylen]

No. Ikakku isn't a lieutenant.

Oh ok I was wrong :P.




I dont think Renji can, he would give him a good fight but he wont win. I say that because he barely just beat Grimmjows fraccion Ilfort grantz and the current Yammy is stronger from before, as much as i hate to admit it Renji woudnt beat Yammy.

side note: Yammy sucks
Well it was just my opinion, yeah renji isnt so powerful but he got a lot of skills. So I guess they have almost same power level and usually the good guys win so RENJI WINS! XD

[Morgoth]

Renji, probably, since he is the only one with bankai and a large amount of stubborness to level Yammi

[Yadomaru]

I'd say Renji or Kira...maybe Hisagi, but we don't know enough about his combat capabilities outside of zanjutsu.

[kochito22]

Oh ok I was wrong :P.



Well it was just my opinion, yeah renji isnt so powerful but he got a lot of skills. So I guess they have almost same power level and usually the good guys win so RENJI WINS! XD

What skills has he shown other than swinging his sword around?

[eneru92]

Except for Bankai Renji , Bankai Ikkaku and maybe Rukia with the use of high level kido spells , no one between the VC level characters could even injure Yammy .
Hitsugaya couldn't do nothing to him with his shikai .
Considering that ther is an abiss between a captain shikai and a vice captain shikai , it is obvius that vice captain cannot defeat yammy in battle .

P.S : Before calling me a fanboy for what I say about Rukia's kido , note that Aaroniero said that her hado 73 could have at last injured him .
So , even if she is not strong enough to defeat Yammi , she would at last be able to injure him , a thing that all other VC , with their shikai , wouldn't be able to do .

[DarkBunny]

i would have to say Renji as well,he's has Bankai,is very stubborn and would have a good chance at beating yammy

[Zaylen]

What skills has he shown other than swinging his sword around?

Dunno really, but the skills he's using are really powerfull looking.. That's why I said something like that .. xD

[Kingkon]

P.S : Before calling me a fanboy for what I say about Rukia's kido , note that Aaroniero said that her hado 73 could have at last injured him .
So , even if she is not strong enough to defeat Yammi , she would at last be able to injure him , a thing that all other VC , with their shikai , wouldn't be able to do .

uh no AA said it could have hurt him a little unlike none of her other attacks. plus Hinamori is a Kido specialists, and Kira can do a chantless llvl 78 kido, if kido is enough to injure an Espada then half of the Vc could do it!

[eneru92]

uh no AA said it could have hurt him a little unlike none of her other attacks. plus Hinamori is a Kido specialists, and Kira can do a chantless llvl 78 kido, if kido is enough to injure an Espada then half of the Vc could do it!

Point of wiew .
AA overstimated himself just like all other espadas ( zommari claiming that was the fastest , nnoitra the strongest , and the list can still continue ) .
However , thinking on it , maybe you are right .
hinamori , kira and hisagi would probably be able to at last injure yammy with kido .

[samir12]

But if you think about it, yammy's hierro seems to be pretty strong as not even the anti arrancer mine took him out as well as Ishida's arrow who was surprised it didnt do sinch.

[shinji]

Well since a bankai Ichigo sliced off his arm with little effort (and he was going though some mental proplems at the time) it would'nt be unfair to presume that a bankai renji would at least give him a fight, although i'd say Yammy would still win.

But a realesed Yammy, I dunno not too sure he might take it with ease.

In short no VC's would win.

[samir12]

Well since a bankai Ichigo sliced off his arm with little effort (and he was going though some mental proplems at the time) it would'nt be unfair to presume that a bankai renji would at least give him a fight, although i'd say Yammy would still win.

But a realesed Yammy, I dunno not too sure he might take it with ease.

In short no VC's would win.

It is not really fair to use Ichigo as a point because he is clearly at captain level.

[kochito22]

If the spoilers are true, Yammy solos all of them.

[Yadomaru]

Unreleased Yammy's hierro is weak enough that LOLY was able to cut him with that dinky butterknife she calls a blade.
So really, almost anybody with a sword could injure him. And some people without one.

Released Yammy I won't say anything about until the Chapter is out and we know for certain.

[Kingkon]

Unreleased Yammy's hierro is weak enough that LOLY was able to cut him with that dinky butterknife she calls a blade.
So really, almost anybody with a sword could injure him. And some people without one.

Released Yammy I won't say anything about until the Chapter is out and we know for certain.

Uh no, Ishada's arrow couldn't pierce him, Yoruichi got injured by punching, Mayuri's landmine built for an espada couldn't kill so? obviously arrancar's zan's is better suited at cutting hierro because Noitora said no shinigami's blade can cut him, which is why Zaraki and Ichigo at first had a hard time cutting him but Nell did so easily

[He's a Mentalist]

Ichigo had to go bankai just to fight Yammi. Yammi can take those lieutenants.

[kochito22]

Ichigo chose to go bankai to fight Yammi. He uses bankai every time he fights.

[He's a Mentalist]

He preferred to use shikai against the privion espada...

[kochito22]

And then acknowledged his own stupidity and the limitation of his powers. His shikai is borderline worthless and he needs bankai to hold his own.

[He's a Mentalist]

He could have beaten him with shikai. The guy's power wasn't all to great and was pretty weak compared to shikai Ichigo. Ichigo going bankai on him was a bit too much.

[kochito22]

Ichigo needed bankai to beat a Privaron Espada. You're suggesting that he could defeat a current espada with shikai?

[He's a Mentalist]

The privion Espada are not the current Espada. Privion Espada were not hougyokufied like the current Espada, thus they were are weaker than the current espada. That is why they are called privion Espada. I am suggesting that Ichigo did not need to resort to bankai to defeat such a weak privion Espada.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/254/01/

[kochito22]

We're not sure if the current Espada were hougyokufied. Nnoitora's flashback took place long before Aizen stole the hougyoku.

[He's a Mentalist]

WTF am I thinking??? You are right Kochito... Sorry dude.

[kochito22]

My frail fingers clicked the damn link. I read it. I tried to comprehend what I've just read. I came to the conclusion that Aizen stole the Hougyoku recently. Nel and Nnoitora seem to have been arrancar since before he stole it.

[He's a Mentalist]

Yeah, I re-edited my post and check rep.

[shinji]

If the new spoilers are correct, Yammy would annilalate all of them together.

The espada are ranked form 0-9. So yeah yammy is pretty damn powerful now.

[Soujirou]

Since Kubo decided to disregard what Hitsugaya Opponent said back on earth, that the Espadas ranged from number 10 and below, and to create a plot twist said that Yammi actually is the Zero Espada, which means, the strongest one, then almost none of this inconsistent series's good characters can do anything against released yammi, save for the top 4 captains and the vaizards.

[shinji]

Maybe aizen did'nt tell anyone besides the other espada about it. And a yammy,unohano fight has to happen.

[Razvan_Asakura]

uhm...ok..soooo, since we already found out the he is the 0 Espada as well, can we assume that NO VC will be able to beat him alone & close the thread?!

[kochito22]

Kira might be able to hack at him until he drops lmao

[Razvan_Asakura]

lol true..but if Yammy punches in the ground..there's no doubt he'll hit him by mistake and squish his body. like Gaara would say : "Sand burial" lmao

[kochito22]

Yammy can crush all of them right now, even Oomaeda's fat ass.

[Yayap]

I actually votes none ages ago, but I didn't think he could wipe the floor with all of them like he seems to be able to do now. Will be interesting to see how the nakama trio (try to) handle him & how badly/well they do.

[Morgoth]

In light of the latest revelation, I would have to say, none of them, alone.
Grouping up as they will probably so to bring him down is still possible, I think...

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

In light of the latest revelation, I would have to say, none of them, alone.
Grouping up as they will probably so to bring him down is still possible, I think...

i'm not 2 sure the combination of them all can bring a top ranked espada

[RsR]

Again - NONE

even combined - no offense IMO

[Paragon]

Yeah after the latest chapter its clear now that no Vice Captain could stand up to him.

Closed.