Yoruichi vs. Kenpachi [Archive] - Bleach Exile Forums

McFlyan

03-17-2009, 01:27 PM

Yeah and she also got hurt in the process, Zaraki was able to cut down Nnoitra who had 10x stronger hierro than Yammi, how will Yourichi fare against Nnnoitra bare handed even with shunko. Zaraki was able to sustain big cuts and slashes from Nnoitra aswell as an arm though his chest, im sure he will be able to handle a few punches and kicks.

What does zaraki cutting down nnoitra have to do with yoruichi knocking out yammi barehanded? It doesn't matter that she got hurt doing it, the fact remains that she was strong enough to knock the iron skinned douchebag out barehanded. Do I think she could do the same thing to Nnoitra barehanded? No, probably not, she would need her zan or shunko to beat him (and she would beat Nnoitra).
EDIT: You're right she would need more than punches or kicks to beat zaraki but let's remember that yoruichi actually has a lot more than that. She has sunko, shikai, and bankai.

Yammi is weaksauce, she also managed to hurt her hands doing it.

What do you mean "no impact on hierro"?
So Yammis' hiero = Nnoitras' or Starks' hierro?

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. You asked what feat of strength has Yoruichi shown barehanded. I said she showcased her strength by knocking out an espada with her bare hands. Espada have hierro which means their skin is iron thick so knocking one out barehanded isn't a small feat. I was saying that Yammi's own strength/reiatsu has no correlation to his own hierro, which could be one of the strongest or one of the weakest but we don't know that.

My argument remains, she would be able to beat zaraki with shunko or shikai. Should she ever find her zan and release her bankai and that's not even an argument. I just don't see zaraki being able to keep up with her movements enough for him to beat her.

borkenek

03-17-2009, 01:32 PM

yeah. someone who got a title that means 'teh strongest' can be a weakling. Cuz its like a forum title. People can choose any title they want in soul society. And you know what? Other captains always accept that title you choose, and they call you like you want. Even that title means 'thiz guy is stronger than me, hes the strongest in his generation'

yamamoto? i bet kenpachi would have lot of fun if he fights with that old fart. Yama prolly burn kenpachis ass, but we can assume that yama is not in same generation as zaraki's

Others? they have no chance.

Delta

03-17-2009, 02:28 PM

Any of the 4 other Captains listed by Dark would annihilate Kenpachi.

Can someone show me the scan where Yammy got knocked out? I can't recall it.

Until she actually shows/uses her Zan it can't be used as an argument. It's like saying, "Well, that's when Kenpachi goes Bankai." Well, we know he couldn't but we haven't been told that he can't after/just before the Nnoi fight. It's a lame argument that has no basis until the manga shows it to us.

Hiwapi

03-17-2009, 02:35 PM

Who will win between the two?

Kenpachi has obviously lots of stamina and endurance(sp?)
Also he has lots of reiatsu

Yoruichi is one of the fastest(wont say the fastest) ppl in SS
She is also a master on hand to hand fight

The fact that she doesnt have her sword and she fights against a sword (specialist i can assume) opponent is surely a drawback
On the other hand,she is just too fast for him(even if he is fast too i dont think he is fast enough for Yoruichi)

I wont assume that she has her zan,i wont assume that she has either shikai/bankai
I will make an assumption with their current abilities and skills
I will choose Yoruichi because

1)She is quicker than him
Even if he lands a hit on her she would have landed the twice hits cause of her speed
Also dont forget,she has the shihouin techniques too,like the one she used to Byakuya @ the bridge and like the one Byakuya used against the #7 Espada

2)Kenpachi gets beaten up(even if he doesnt feel it sometimes) because he likes it,which means he wont dodge Yoruichi's attacks because he will get excited,he has done that both with Ichigo and Nnoitra...also i dont think that with Yoruichi as an opponent you can just laugh and fool around like Kenpachi did with the other 2

Also lets clear it a little bit,this is clearly speculations because we dont have a fucking clue

McFlyan

03-17-2009, 02:42 PM

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-7.html

If he isn't knocked out, he's pretty thoroughly pwned.

TW501

03-17-2009, 02:54 PM

I'd go with Yoruichi. In terms of sheer power, Kenpachi is stronger, but Yoruichi is really powerful too and is fast and skilled enough to put it to better use than Kenpachi.

Delta

03-17-2009, 03:02 PM

Yeah Yammy wasn't knocked out:
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-12.html
Here she was saved by Urahara.

And here she talks about the damage she took:
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-195-page-3.html

The page right before that said that her arm "was not working well" after the fight.

eneru92

03-17-2009, 03:03 PM

Really not much to debate .

Yoruichi speedblitz kenpachi .
Shunko and shikai/bankai will do the rest .

borkenek

03-17-2009, 03:06 PM

Delta

03-17-2009, 03:10 PM

so you guys saying yoruichis hand-to-hand combat skills do more damage on kenpachi than nnoitra and his weapons..
And she can hit kenpachi who can dodge a captains attack without any sense but touch.

tousen+komamaru couldnt beat him but unohana can 'woop his ass'. with her super healing touch.

/unohanas healing touch heals kenpachi over 9000
/kenpachi bores
/unohana winz

hell yeah!

You are overestimate those captains, just because we didnt see them fighting.

You're underestimating them. Aizen, instead of taking out Unohana (like he did to Hitsugaya) chose to retreat. Surely he could have spent another second to take her out if he could, to take out SS's best healer, no? No, because there was a chance he'd lose.

Shinsui and Ukitake are hellishly powerful. That's why those 4 (including Yamma) are in the Top tier and Kenpachi is in the Middle tear.

-MaNi-

03-17-2009, 03:22 PM

kenpachi WOULD lose to those four captains borkenek, no doubt about it.. sure he may put up a fight, but he would still get whooped

now.. im not gonna officially vote because theres still too many unknowns on yoruichi's side for me to cast a fair vote.. she definately has speed which she can use to out pace kenpachi.. to the comment about how kenpachi can avoid getting hurt because he can sense 'touch'... well why the hell didnt he dodge any of ichigo's attacks, nnoitra's attacks etc?.. dont give me none of that, 'he was in it for the thrill' which is rubbish..

the only reason he could do that against tousen (only a couple of times.. not like he was dodging him with ease) was because he was robbed of his senses, and thus actually THOUGHT about it instead of going crazy.. remember how he got cut first, then realised what was going on.. if he's 'the strongest shinigami' and is good at dodging a blind mans attacks, then why didnt he see it coming?
when he realised he couldnt do anything except just stand still, thats when he got rid of all his emotions and put his whole effort into sharpening his senses.. then we have the fact that tousen wasnt expecting zaraki to dodge it.. he was expecting a easy win, but he underestimated zaraki.. he got fucked.. lets not forget yoruichi is faster than tousen...

soo thats my view on this.. i cant really say who will win, tho i will go for yoruichi for now simply because of speed.. she can obviously cut him, and a few fatal wounds here and there, and not even he can stand up...

eneru92

03-17-2009, 03:26 PM

so you guys saying yoruichis hand-to-hand combat skills do more damage on kenpachi than nnoitra and his weapons..
And she can hit kenpachi who can dodge a captains attack without any sense but touch.

tousen+komamaru couldnt beat him but unohana can 'woop his ass'. with her super healing touch.

/unohanas healing touch heals kenpachi over 9000
/kenpachi bores
/unohana winz

hell yeah!

You are overestimate those captains, just because we didnt see them fighting.

1)Tousen could have defeated Kenpachi with his bankai , if only he had pierced him in some vital spot .
2)Both komamura and kenpachi wasn't injured after their fight , so we )cannot state who is the stronger or who winned between them .
3)Unohana would annihilate kenpachi with her kendo pwnage .

justin43

03-17-2009, 04:14 PM

This is a hard matchup to judge since we know very little about Yoruichi. If I am forced to choose now, I would go with Kenpachi. Without her zan, I just don't see Yoruichi winning with just her bare fist and shunko when Kenpachi has taken near fatal slashes and still battle and won.:sweatdrop:

Kingkon

03-17-2009, 04:18 PM

so you guys saying yoruichis hand-to-hand combat skills do more damage on kenpachi than nnoitra and his weapons..
And she can hit kenpachi who can dodge a captains attack without any sense but touch.

tousen+komamaru couldnt beat him but unohana can 'woop his ass'. with her super healing touch.

/unohanas healing touch heals kenpachi over 9000
/kenpachi bores
/unohana winz

hell yeah!

You are overestimate those captains, just because we didnt see them fighting.
Just like your title say your a freakin noob, Kenpachi is a title handed down to the captain of the 11th squad just like the guy Kenpachi killed before him was a Kenpachi, get it? Now the only title that means your the strongest is Captain Commander which Yama holds. Now Yamamoto has already said that Shinsui and Ukitake are the two most powerful captains in SS so no we are not overstimating those two, but you are one heck of a Kenpachi fanboy!

Darkmaterials

03-17-2009, 05:05 PM

the only reason he could do that against tousen (only a couple of times.. not like he was dodging him with ease) was because he was robbed of his senses, and thus actually THOUGHT about it instead of going crazy.. remember how he got cut first, then realised what was going on.. if he's 'the strongest shinigami' and is good at dodging a blind mans attacks, then why didnt he see it coming?
when he realised he couldnt do anything except just stand still, thats when he got rid of all his emotions and put his whole effort into sharpening his senses.. then we have the fact that tousen wasnt expecting zaraki to dodge it.. he was expecting a easy win, but he underestimated zaraki.. he got fucked.. lets not forget yoruichi is faster than tousen...

He didn't get rid of all his emotions and put his whole effort into sharpening his senses.
He felt the blade touch his skin and moved out of the way.

I know Yourichi is faster than Tousen (SS Tousen that is....), but it's an example of Zaraki's reaction time (moving out of the way like Zaraki did is no small feat against any opponent).

soo thats my view on this.. i cant really say who will win, tho i will go for yoruichi for now simply because of speed.. she can obviously cut him, and a few fatal wounds here and there, and not even he can stand up...

A few fatal wounds?
I'm pretty sure Zaraki doesn't have respawns, despite what Bork might say on the subject :amused:.

crossfade

03-17-2009, 06:45 PM

Yoruichi's speed is far more better than Kenpachi.Kenpachi has tough body and strengthful though.How long can Kenpachi withstand Yoruichi's fast attack anywhere.Yoruichi haven't show shinkai/bankai untill now but her shunko is pretty strong enough.Yoruichi's shunko in ss arc have not reach her maximum power and with shinkai/bankai,Yoruichi probably can beat Kenpachi :amused:.

sasukeleonheart

03-17-2009, 07:08 PM

Though I dearly love Kenpachi, Yoruichi would kick his ass.

ninski

03-17-2009, 07:24 PM

Yoruichi definitely...agility, experience, AND the ability to kick major ass....beats JUST the ability to kick major ass any day ^_^

OminousG

03-17-2009, 08:25 PM

Kenpachi doesn't stand a chance... Kendo techniques wouldnt even touch her... unless she purposely stands still.

Koshka_Goddess

03-17-2009, 10:06 PM

Yoruichi. She has power, speed, and mad skills. Zaraki is nothing more than a cave man with a club in comparison. :yorucat:

Anomandaris

03-17-2009, 10:34 PM

Yoruichi from a century ago against Zaraki now... Yoruichi without ever using her zapakutou.
'Unfit' Yoruichi now against Zaraki... probably Yoruichi without ever using her zanpakutou.

He isn't slow but he likes to take hits and get into the fight. While he's not exactly slow his speed isn't even close to Yoruichi's. That he more than likely couldn't actually hit her is clearly going to be a large contributing factor in this fight. He fights with his sword and his instincts, and occasionally a kick or a punch - nothing else. So if he can't hit her all she has to do is bring him down. Since she punched through Yammi's heirro and basically beat the shit out of him without using shunko, never mind her zanpakutou or the Moulting Cicada, I say she's totally able to hit and and keep hitting him 'till he falls, without ever taking a blow from him. I do believe she'd need shunko, 'Flash Cry', but she shouldn't need anything else, imho. Sure, he wouldn't die easily, but he would die.

VanquishedAngel

03-17-2009, 10:53 PM

As much as I like Kenpachi and as little as we know about Yorochi's abilities she should be able to defeat Kenpachi. He is mid-tier but she was definitely a top-tier captain. She could reasonable be estimated as high as "#5" in the top-four :amused:... she's We still haven't seen her fight with her zan. And to be honest heaven forbid if her zan is anything like Soi-fon b/c to be fair Soi-fon would probably defeat Zaraki. She would most likely get a double tap on him and that would be all.

Feranor

03-18-2009, 03:11 AM

Yoruichi, but I doubt she could do it without using at least Shikai (assuming that it's useful in this context). While Kenpachi is certainly not the strongest captain, he is still a beast in term of close combat and we haven't even seen his limit yet. Tousen had a massive speed advantage (basically default speed blitz since Zaraki couldn't get any sensory input before Tousen's blade actually connected) due to his Bankai and still got owned.

Dean

03-18-2009, 04:27 AM

Yoruichi! She's too sexy, he doesn't stand a chance! :)

fifenfk

03-18-2009, 05:56 AM

As a kenpachi fan boy myself the powerhouse doesnt win this in the long run,he loves to fight and yoruichi loves shunpo...not good for kenpachi.He like to beat the crap outta his opponents and she isn't just gona stand there and wait to get pwnd.This fight only has one clear winner and its yoruichi.

Valionx

03-18-2009, 10:36 AM

I can't believe 5 people voted for ken. Yoruichi keeps using shunpo and hitting weak spots (like the neck or eye) and ken'll be done for.

Aaroneiro

03-18-2009, 11:04 AM

Yoruichi is overrated, just because Byakuya called her 'goddess of flash' everyone thinks she's way faster than anyone in Bleach.

I voted for Zaraki, I can't see her beating him without a sword.

borkenek

03-18-2009, 11:56 AM

Anomandaris

03-18-2009, 12:08 PM

''I can't believe 27 people voted for yoru. Kenpachi keeps using his own strength and hitting any spots (like shes butt!) and yoru'll be done for.''

whatever.. i know how you ppl thinking;
'we saw zaraki when hes fighting someone but we dont know how strong yoruichi chick is. So yoruichi should be stronger than zaraki. i bet she has awesome shikai and bankai!'

thus is just wrong ( i mean thinking like that is wrong. But yoruichi chick could be much powerfull than zaraki. Cuz its freaking anime.)

Call me fanboy. But zaraki > allFail. On so many different levels. Anyway, points:
One, good grammar helps other people to understand you.
Two, when Ulquiorra said there were maybe three people in the real world who could stop him when he came through from HM to beat on Ichigo, one of those three he was referring to was Yoruichi (the second is Urahara and the third is most likely Isshin.)
Three, please explain to me exactly how and why Kenpachi will actually be able to hit Yoruichi.
Four, she is an ex-Captain of the Second Division. This means she has bankai. Kenpachi is is the only Captain who doesn't. Yet she beat the crap out of Yammi a) without using shunko, even if it hurt her hands and b) without using her zanpakutou.
Five, people aren't saying she would win because we know so little about her, they're saying she'd win because of what we do know about her, mostly using logic rather than having been told straight out by KT, and what we do know about Kenpachi, which is quite a lot, fails to compare.
Six, yes, I will call you a fanboy. "Zaraki > all" is a clear indicator of any logic you possessed in the first place being over-ridden by your obsession.

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-18-2009, 12:12 PM

I don't see how Kenpachi can beat Yoruichi if he can't catch her....even if it take a million jags to the chest, kenpachi will fall before she does...if Kenpachi can't catch Yoruichi he can't hurt her...She wins

Lnrd

03-18-2009, 12:12 PM

@borkenek- What proof do you have that Kenpachi can react to her speed?

The reason Yoru wins this fight with barehands is because...

A.) Her speed is much faster than Kenpachi

B.) Kenpachi doesn't have hierro.

borkenek

03-18-2009, 12:34 PM

1) well, at least you are right about that one.
2) cuz kenpachi wasnt there. he should be in ss at that moment XD
3) ask kubo
4) tousen had bankai when he fought kenpachi. it didnt helped (im not saying yoruichis bankai has same power level as tousens. since we know NOTHING about that. And kenpachi is the only one who doesnt need a bankai or shikai for becoming the captain. Yet he beat the crap out of Nnoitra, who is 10x strong than yammy a) without using shunko :P (ok, im kidding. But you know that we still dont know everything about kenpachi. Dont tell me you didnt get surprise that 'kendo' thing..)
..
.

Anomandaris

03-18-2009, 12:49 PM

1) well, at least you are right about that one.Learn from it.
2) cuz kenpachi wasnt there. he should be in ss at that moment XD The point is he only defeated the Fifth Espada. And he admitted he came close to getting killed, even if he did win in the end. Ulquiorra is the Fourth.
3) ask kuboNo, I'm asking you. If KT had already done this battle in the manga there would be no point discussing it.
4) tousen had bankai when he fought kenpachi. it didnt helped (im not saying yoruichis bankai has same power level as tousens. since we know NOTHING about that. The Tousen vs. Kenpachi was a plot battle - the only reason he won is because he doesn't understand what fear is so it didn't affect him. Against mostly anyone else, Tousen's bankai is hax.
And kenpachi is the only one who doesnt need a bankai or shikai for becoming the captain. There are three ways to become captain. One of them is to defeat another captain in single combat in front of more than 200 squad members. That's why Kenpachi is a captain without bankai. All it tells us is that he's weird and that he's captain-class. This is not new information nor does not really further anyone's arguments in either direction.
Yet he beat the crap out of Nnoitra, who is 10x strong than yammy a) without using shunko :P (ok, im kidding. But you know that we still dont know everything about kenpachi. Dont tell me you didnt get surprise that 'kendo' thing..)
Firstly you can't justify the 10x statement, secondly Kenpachi doesn't have hierro, and thirdly the thing about kendo is it only works if you can hit your opponent. Kenpachi vs. Nnoitra was a tank vs. tank battle. It was all about who could do the most damage while taking hits. Yoruichi would never fight that way, and trying to fight that way against her would be totally ineffective. Claims that Kenpachi may have more to show us yet are unfounded since without serious plot development we don't know even know whether this is true or not. Yoruichi in the other hand is known to have things we haven't seen yet. Namely shikai, bankai, the ability to use Moulting Cicada and at the least two other unknown moves.

Yoruichi's aim would be the classic 'to strike without being struck' and with her speed that shouldn't be an issue. since her hands and feet are harder (though not necessarily by a lot since she got hurt) than Yammi's hierro (Yammi may be the Ninth but he still has hierro, which is more than can be said for Kenpachi) without using shunko it should be fairly obvious that he wouldn't be able to hit her and that she could damage him. The combination ends the fight. Like I said before, it he might take a serious pounding before he went down, but he would lose.

borkenek

03-18-2009, 01:26 PM

The point is he only defeated the Fifth Espada. And he admitted he came close to getting killed, even if he did win in the end. Ulquiorra is the Fourth.

sir, you failed.
why do you think kenpachi didnt use kendo or his sealed reiatsu at the very start? Not because of cooldowns or whatever...for enjoy the fight. He could killed Nnoitra without came close to getting killed. But it wouldnt be fun in that way.

and sorry, i didnt knew 'plot fights doesnt count' rule. And i thought tousens bankai is about to blocking senses, not fear.

i was 123456789% sure that you would say this; ''you can't justify the 10x statement''.
okay. make it 2x..whatever

Delta

03-18-2009, 01:29 PM

Call me fanboy. But zaraki > all
Fanboy.

Fail. On so many different levels. Anyway, points:
One, good grammar helps other people to understand you.
Two, when Ulquiorra said there were maybe three people in the real world who could stop him when he came through from HM to beat on Ichigo, one of those three he was referring to was Yoruichi (the second is Urahara and the third is most likely Isshin.)
Three, please explain to me exactly how and why Kenpachi will actually be able to hit Yoruichi.
Four, she is an ex-Captain of the Second Division. This means she has bankai. Kenpachi is is the only Captain who doesn't. Yet she beat the crap out of Yammi a) without using shunko, even if it hurt her hands and b) without using her zanpakutou.
Five, people aren't saying she would win because we know so little about her, they're saying she'd win because of what we do know about her, mostly using logic rather than having been told straight out by KT, and what we do know about Kenpachi, which is quite a lot, fails to compare.
Six, yes, I will call you a fanboy. "Zaraki > all" is a clear indicator of any logic you possessed in the first place being over-ridden by your obsession.
2)Ulquiorra said that Yoruichi and Urahara at that point in time would have had horrible chances of winning had they fought. He never said that either Yoruichi or Urahara could have taken him out on their own.
4) She may have bankai but that is irrelevant in this conversation, as is any chance of Kenpachi throwing out a new technique.
She was saved from Yammy by Urahara, I wouldn't say that's "beat"ing him.
B) Again, unless she shows her zanpaktou that information is irrelevant.
5) To be honest, we really don't know that much about her. We do know that she's much faster than Byakuya, and that should give her more than enough speed to not get hit by Kenpachi (unless she just sits there staring at the attack like she did against Yammy)

Learn from it.
The point is he only defeated the Fifth Espada. And he admitted he came close to getting killed, even if he did win in the end. Ulquiorra is the Fourth.
No, I'm asking you. If KT had already done this battle in the manga there would be no point discussing it.
The Tousen vs. Kenpachi was a plot battle - the only reason he won is because he doesn't understand what fear is so it didn't affect him. Against mostly anyone else, Tousen's bankai is hax.
There are three ways to become captain. One of them is to defeat another captain in single combat in front of more than 200 squad members. That's why Kenpachi is a captain without bankai. All it tells us is that he's weird and that he's captain-class. This is not new information nor does not really further anyone's arguments in either direction.
Firstly you can't justify the 10x statement, secondly Kenpachi doesn't have hierro, and thirdly the thing about kendo is it only works if you can hit your opponent. Kenpachi vs. Nnoitra was a tank vs. tank battle. It was all about who could do the most damage while taking hits. Yoruichi would never fight that way, and trying to fight that way against her would be totally ineffective. Claims that Kenpachi may have more to show us yet are unfounded since without serious plot development we don't know even know whether this is true or not. Yoruichi in the other hand is known to have things we haven't seen yet. Namely shikai, bankai, the ability to use Moulting Cicada and at the least two other unknown moves.

Yoruichi's aim would be the classic 'to strike without being struck' and with her speed that shouldn't be an issue. since her hands and feet are harder (though not necessarily by a lot since she got hurt) than Yammi's hierro (Yammi may be the Ninth but he still has hierro, which is more than can be said for Kenpachi) without using shunko it should be fairly obvious that he wouldn't be able to hit her and that she could damage him. The combination ends the fight. Like I said before, it he might take a serious pounding before he went down, but he would lose.
2) He said that if he had kept going he may get killed, not that he was getting close (as far as I can remember). There is a difference as getting close means you're about to, saying that you may at some point is considering possible outcomes.
6) If her hands/feet were harder she wouldn't have gotten hurt at all. It's natural for the one that gets hit to receive more damage - it doesn't mean that the object doing the striking is harder. Ex: An airplane falls and hits the ground. Is the metal softer than dirt?

Personally I've yet to see many good arguments for either side yet so I haven't voted.

Anomandaris

03-18-2009, 01:32 PM

sir, you failed.
why do you think kenpachi didnt use kendo or his sealed reiatsu at the very start? Not because of cooldowns or whatever...for enjoy the fight. He could killed Nnoitra without came close to getting killed. But it wouldnt be fun in that way.
Nnoitra didn't release straight away either. And Nnoitra was not exactly in great condition when he was finally brought down by the kendo slash. You cannot deny it took effort on Kenpachi's part. Or rather, you can deny it but it doesn't change the facts. And no, you fail. You have failed to answer any of the important points in any of my posts, and have displayed nothing that can sanely be called logic.

and sorry, i didnt knew 'plot fights doesnt count' rule. And i thought tousens bankai is about to blocking senses, not fear.
It's not so much plot fights don't count as it is that KT makes certain matchups happen for a reason. By the way, did you even read what Tousen said to Kenpachi inside the dome when they were fighting? Because it sure doesn't sound like it.

i was 123456789% sure that you would say this; ''you can't justify the 10x statement''.
okey. make it 2x..whateverYou can't justify a number. It doesn't matter what you make that number, but quantitative analysis of power in Bleach fails.

EDIT:
2)Ulquiorra said that Yoruichi and Urahara at that point in time would have had horrible chances of winning had they fought. He never said that either Yoruichi or Urahara could have taken him out on their own.No, I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to what he said to Yammi eariler. Additionally, he said that they had horrible chances of defeating him while trying to defend Ichigo, Orihime, Chad and Tatsuki. Which is obviously much harder than simply beating him.

4) She may have bankai but that is irrelevant in this conversation, as is any chance of Kenpachi throwing out a new technique.
She was saved from Yammy by Urahara, I wouldn't say that's "beat"ing him. Whether she was in fact saved is dubious. I maintain Urahara did it because it would have trashed the four wounded lying on the ground behind him. As for her having bankai it is very relevant, because we know she has it, where as we know nothing about other techniques Kenpachi may possess.
B) Again, unless she shows her zanpaktou that information is irrelevant. See above.

5) To be honest, we really don't know that much about her. We do know that she's much faster than Byakuya, and that should give her more than enough speed to not get hit by Kenpachi (unless she just sits there staring at the attack like she did against Yammy) Agreed.

2) He said that if he had kept going he may get killed, not that he was getting close (as far as I can remember). There is a difference as getting close means you're about to, saying that you may at some point is considering possible outcomes.Kenpachi doesn't think eight steps ahead. He barely thinks more than one step ahead. I don't think this is overly relevant but I do think that the possibility he was considering possible outcomes is a little unlikely.

6) If her hands/feet were harder she wouldn't have gotten hurt at all. It's natural for the one that gets hit to receive more damage - it doesn't mean that the object doing the striking is harder. Ex: An airplane falls and hits the ground. Is the metal softer than dirt? Incorrect. If her hands were not harder than his hierro she shouldn't have been able to damage him without taking more damage than he did. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Physics dictates that if she hits him with x Newtons of force, his body pushes back with the same x Newtons of force. This is a basic physical law and if you don't believe me I suggest you consult your nearest textbook. The reason an aircraft gets damaged when it hits the ground is because the earth has a far larger mass than it. It's a little complicated but both inertia and F=M*A come into play here. The force is the same but the acceleration involved is not. Additionally an aircraft is closer to being modelled as a shell than as a solid. Not to mention it's not as if falling aircraft don't do serious damage to whatever they land on.

Personally I've yet to see many good arguments for either side yet so I haven't voted.You're going to wait for other people's arguments rather than coming up with some for yourself about this?

borkenek

03-18-2009, 01:50 PM

Nnoitra didn't release straight away either. And Nnoitra was not exactly in great condition when he was finally brought down by the kendo slash. You cannot deny it took effort on Kenpachi's part. Or rather, you can deny it but it doesn't change the facts. And no, you fail. You have failed to answer any of the important points in any of my posts, and have displayed nothing that can sanely be called logic.

you said that kenpachi barely defeated 5th, so he cant kick 4th ass.
and im saying its his style. FFS we are talking about zaraki, a man who lets his opponent cut him first, for giving him an advantage.
And you are still saying if 5th would be a little more powerfull he could defeat kenpachi?

and sorry, i couldnt find any 'important points' in your posts

Razvan_Asakura

03-18-2009, 01:59 PM

FFS we are talking about zaraki, a man who lets his opponent cut him first, for giving him an advantage.

You're right. Yoruichi cuts off Zaraki's head in less than a second.

samir12

03-18-2009, 02:14 PM

How can u guys say Yourichi will win with shikai, if we dont even know what her shikai is, these are just opinions, not facts. The facts are that Kenpachi has incredible endurance and cun sustain big slashes,I mean come on what does more damage a sword or a hand? We havent seen yourichi take down big opponents (yammi does not count he is a weakass) We have seen Kenpachi take on 2 captains, beat 1 captain who was in bankai and beat the 5th espada. Speed is not everything. To the poster above, where on earth have you ever seen someones head get cut off in Bleach?

Zero-sama

03-18-2009, 02:21 PM

Why do people always overestimate Zaraki, I am starting to hate him now too. He is only a Mid Tier Captain, that has a lot of reiatsu and more endurance than a lot of characters in Bleach, but people that's it. He is no God, he is simply a Mid tier captain, got it.

It is obvious, who the winner is, Yoruichi would annihilate Zaraki, and easily. Expert in all shinigami combat forms, and we have not seen her zan abilities yet. Yoruichi wins.

Done with this thread. Next!!!

Razvan_Asakura

03-18-2009, 02:21 PM

samir12

03-18-2009, 02:23 PM

If Kenpachi was able to dodge and react to Tousens attack with NO SENSES, im sure with he will able to react to shunpo, and for god sake back up your points from the manga and not your own opinions.

Seanc

03-18-2009, 02:26 PM

kochito22

03-18-2009, 02:27 PM

samir12

03-18-2009, 02:30 PM

Sorry I meant to say not just your own opinions.

If you didn't notice, Ulq plunged his hand straight into Ichigo's chest with little trouble. What's to say Yoru couldnt do the exact same thing to Kenpachi?

Because we havent actually seen ANY shinigami plung their arm through a chest, and Yourichi is not an espada. Well you could be right and Youruchi could plunge her arm through Kenpachi, but remember Nnoitra did the same thing to Kenpachi and well just kept smiling.

EDIT: sorry for the double post, won't happen again :P

Razvan_Asakura

03-18-2009, 02:39 PM

If Kenpachi was able to dodge and react to Tousens attack with NO SENSES, im sure with he will able to react to shunpo, and for god sake back up your points from the manga and not your own opinions.

Tousen's bankai doesn't block ALL senses.

Zaraki used the last one, to find Tousen. + anyone who touches Tousen's ring that's on his zan, then his bankai shatters. You proved nothing with that statement.

You forget Yoruichi was the captain of the 2nd division, who was also the captain of special ops. kidou, speed, assassination skills is her area. When she fought Soi Fon, in god flash mode, the battle was over in mere seconds. Also, for who doesn't know, she does have a zan, it was shown sometime at the beginning of the anime in some sort of flashback, but now she rarely uses it, cause she's badass & doesn't need it.

I'm to lazy to go & give you some pages that proves she can pwn clearly more than 2 captains at once.

Because we havent actually seen ANY shinigami plung their arm through a chest, and Yourichi is not an espada. Well you could be right and Youruchi could plunge her arm through Kenpachi, but remember Nnoitra did the same thing to Kenpachi and well just kept smiling.

Yoruichi won't be going for an arm. She isn't like Kenpachi to enjoy the battle. She'll kill him in the fastest way as possible. Again, I repeat, he won't be able to even see her move, not to mention react.

Seanc

03-18-2009, 02:46 PM

Lol My origional point was that it doesn't matter if you're using a sword or your arm.

samir12

03-18-2009, 02:51 PM

Tousen's bankai doesn't block ALL senses.

Zaraki used the last one, to find Tousen. + anyone who touches Tousen's ring that's on his zan, then his bankai shatters. You proved nothing with that statement.

You forget Yoruichi was the captain of the 2nd division, who was also the captain of special ops. kidou, speed, assassination skills is her area. When she fought Soi Fon, in god flash mode, the battle was over in mere seconds. Also, for who doesn't know, she does have a zan, it was shown sometime at the beginning of the anime in some sort of flashback, but now she rarely uses it, cause she's badass & doesn't need it.

I'm to lazy to go & give you some pages that proves she can pwn clearly more than 2 captains at once.

Yoruichi won't be going for an arm. She isn't like Kenpachi to enjoy the battle. She'll kill him in the fastest way as possible. Again, I repeat, he won't be able to even see her move, not to mention react.

I proved that Kenpachi can react to attacks using his last sense, btw I didnt say Tousen blocks all his senses. Kenpachi was using his last sense to dodge the attacks which is TOUCH, Kenpachi didnt use that sense to find Tousen, he just took a sword to his body to grab the zan and was still standing. You said that Youruchi doesnt need a zan, well then why the hell did you say she can just cut kenpachi's head off, what so is Yourichi able to cut peoples heads off with her hands ? I didnt get what you said on the last paragraph, what on earth is plunging an arm through a chest got do with enjoying a battle (By the way I wasnt the one who even suggested her plunging an arm though his chest, so you can say this to the poster who did), are you saying that Ulquiorra enjoys battles now?

Aaroneiro

03-18-2009, 02:54 PM

No, I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to what he said to Yammi eariler. Additionally, he said that they had horrible chances of defeating him while trying to defend Ichigo, Orihime, Chad and Tatsuki. Which is obviously much harder than simply beating him

He was talking about Yammy, because Yoruichi would've been caught by Yammy's cero if Urahara didn't step in. Ulq was just the spectator.

Anomandaris

03-18-2009, 04:28 PM

you said that kenpachi barely defeated 5th, so he cant kick 4th ass.
and im saying its his style. FFS we are talking about zaraki, a man who lets his opponent cut him first, for giving him an advantage.
And you are still saying if 5th would be a little more powerfull he could defeat kenpachi?He nearly let Nnoitra kill him. That qualifies in stupid imo. As does letting an opponent cut you first. If he did anything like that against Ulquiorra he'd be dead in two seconds flat. In fact Ulquiorra would likely own him regardless of what he did. However that's really not very relevant to the current topic. By the way it's pretty obvious the gaps between various Espada's power is non-linear.

and sorry, i couldnt find any 'important points' in your postsThat's because either a) you struggle to read or b)your Kenpachi fanboy-ism is clouding your judgement. You still haven't told me how Kenpachi would actually be able to hit Yoruichi.

If Kenpachi was able to dodge and react to Tousens attack with NO SENSES, im sure with he will able to react to shunpo, and for god sake back up your points from the manga and not your own opinions.Razvan has already annihilated your points, but I have to point out that simply because he could react on instinct to being slashed by an opponent and survive doesn't have a lot of impact on this discussion. Because Tousen and Yoruichi are not in anything like the same category, and also because blunt trauma impact doesn't work the same way. And no-one supporting Kenpachi has explained to mean exactly how he's going to hit her btw...

P.S. If you want links to the manga, set an example by providing them first instead of spouting opinion telling us not to do what you just did.

He was talking about Yammy, because Yoruichi would've been caught by Yammy's cero if Urahara didn't step in. Ulq was just the spectator.You really should learn to read. He mentioned Ulquiorra saying that Urahara and Yoruichi's chances of winning were bad, to counter what I said about there being three people in Karakura Town who could take him at that time (which was earlier - he was referring to a different part to what I did orginally) and I countered with the fact that Ulquiorra qualified his statement with the fact Urahara and Yoruichi had to keep Ichigo and company alive as well as fight him, as well as explaining which bit I was referring to. Let him speak for himself anyway; he's more than capable of making himself clear.

About Yammi and his cero, as I said before, you obviously just didn't read it, I maintain that Urahara stepped in because the cero would have killed Ichigo and co, not because it was a serious threat to Yoruichi. As for Ulqiorra, he stepped in to save Yammi from Urahara's riposte.

(SIC)NESS

03-18-2009, 04:29 PM

maybe said before but worth mentioning yoruichi kicked yammy like hell and she was bruised like hell kenpachi fought noitora and won (barely but he chose to) i think kenpachi could win his reaitsu is much higher so maybe if yoruichi strike's him she might hurt herself

so i'd say if yoruichi can't do better then the yammy fight kenpachi hands down

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-18-2009, 04:35 PM

Isn't Yammy's skin harder then Kenpachi's? If soo how does comparing her injuries from her hand to hand combat with Yammy have to do with stabbing a hole in Kenpachi's chest?

Razvan_Asakura

03-18-2009, 04:37 PM

i think kenpachi could win his reaitsu is much higher

How do you know that his reiatsu is much higher?!

I say, that Yoruichi, who was captain of 2 divisions at the same time + who is obviously much older than Zaraki, has more reiatsu and experience than he does.

Anomandaris

03-18-2009, 04:37 PM

@Nocturne' Ichigo: Yes, Yammi has hierro and Kenpachi doesn't. No, comparing those injuries makes no sense. No, there is no proof that his reiatsu is higher. And yes, she should could just use shunko.

(SIC)NESS clearly didn't bother to do his homework or even to read any previous posts.

EDIT: Agreed, Razvan.

VegetaFan7

03-18-2009, 05:07 PM

I can't chose. That match-up is to good.

Delta

03-18-2009, 05:30 PM

EDIT: No, I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to what he said to Yammi eariler. Additionally, he said that they had horrible chances of defeating him while trying to defend Ichigo, Orihime, Chad and Tatsuki. Which is obviously much harder than simply beating him.

Whether she was in fact saved is dubious. I maintain Urahara did it because it would have trashed the four wounded lying on the ground behind him. As for her having bankai it is very relevant, because we know she has it, where as we know nothing about other techniques Kenpachi may possess.
See above.

Agreed.

Kenpachi doesn't think eight steps ahead. He barely thinks more than one step ahead. I don't think this is overly relevant but I do think that the possibility he was considering possible outcomes is a little unlikely.

Incorrect. If her hands were not harder than his hierro she shouldn't have been able to damage him without taking more damage than he did. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Physics dictates that if she hits him with x Newtons of force, his body pushes back with the same x Newtons of force. This is a basic physical law and if you don't believe me I suggest you consult your nearest textbook. The reason an aircraft gets damaged when it hits the ground is because the earth has a far larger mass than it. It's a little complicated but both inertia and F=M*A come into play here. The force is the same but the acceleration involved is not. Additionally an aircraft is closer to being modelled as a shell than as a solid. Not to mention it's not as if falling aircraft don't do serious damage to whatever they land on.

You're going to wait for other people's arguments rather than coming up with some for yourself about this?

1) Though that's true if either of them could have defeated him on their own it would have been quite simple for the two of them to keep the others safe while defeating Ulq. (Btw, can you provide a link to where he said 3 people there could defeat him? I can't remember it/the location where it was and it'd probably help me make the argument more specific or agree with you)

2) http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-10.html Look at her face.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-12.html There's nothing to suggest that they are behind her. In fact, if you go a couple of pages forward you see Ichigo watching as Ulq is leaving and Urahara/Yoruichi are nowhere in sight (which suggest that they are not in front of him).

3) Though it is somewhat unlike Kenpachi, it's also not very likely that he was about to die (he was, after all, kicking Ichigo around quite a bit after all (not something a person who's about to die would or even could do)).

4) Haha, well you don't have to quote physics equations at me, I'm taking AP Physics currently. I'm well aware of all the laws, including the equal reaction. So, you're saying that Yoruichi's skin is harder than steel? Then I propose that Kenpachi's is as well - he was, after all, knocking away ceros and grabbing extremely sharp swords and scythes with his bare hands (without getting as much as a scratch).

5) Exactly. I don't really care about the outcome, I'm just here because I like arguing and I'm arguing with you because you seem to be the best opponent in this topic:bigsmile:

As for the Yoruichi reiatsu > Kenpachi reiatsu, I really doubt it. I mean, seriously - Kenpachi's reiatsu is pretty much what makes him a Captain, it'd be pretty lame if the others had it too (minus the big 3-4, possibly).

Well, I might occasionally check in here again at some point or I might not, depends if I'll have time ^_^

-Delta

Anomandaris

03-18-2009, 06:36 PM

1) Though that's true if either of them could have defeated him on their own it would have been quite simple for the two of them to keep the others safe while defeating Ulq. (Btw, can you provide a link to where he said 3 people there could defeat him? I can't remember it/the location where it was and it'd probably help me make the argument more specific or agree with you)For the record I reckon it would have been very difficult to keep the others safe as Ulquiorra would naturally attack the wounded to force Urahara and Yoruichi on the defensive, not to mention what the level of power being released would have done to Chad, Orihime and Tatsuki in their state.

Also http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-191-page-11.html. Okay, so that translation is definitely more vague than what I remember (damn!), but there we are. 3 People in the world at that point were considered a danger to him. However this (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-15.html) and this (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-16.html) might explain a bit. Despite Ulqiorra's claim that the odds are bad for Yoruichi and Urahara while defending their fallen comrades, he acknowledges he and Yammi would lose unless they run.

2) http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-10.html Look at her face. Here. (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-140-page-19.html) KT loves to exaggerate expressions. It indicates surprise, not imminent death - as you can see with Byakuya there. Renji was hardly about to kill him, it's just the attack and ability (silent shikai release) were unexpected. Also, I really want to know whether or not you concede my point about her shikai/bankai or whether I need to continue debating that point with you.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-194-page-12.html There's nothing to suggest that they are behind her. In fact, if you go a couple of pages forward you see Ichigo watching as Ulq is leaving and Urahara/Yoruichi are nowhere in sight (which suggest that they are not in front of him).You can't see anything behind her through the smoke, so while I acknowledge that you could be right, you could also be wrong, since you can't see anything in the first frame and the third frame only shows a couple of steps if that behind them (the second frame is all Yammi.) No offence but I can't really see anything identifiable of, well, anything other than the ground next to him when Ichigo sits up - not much is shown other than him, so I'm inclined to discount that too. It doesn't give us enough angle to tell where anyone else was.

3) Though it is somewhat unlike Kenpachi, it's also not very likely that he was about to die (he was, after all, kicking Ichigo around quite a bit after all (not something a person who's about to die would or even could do)). Sorry, what? Kicking Ichigo around? I'm not 100% sure what exactly you are referring to with this. Especially the timeframe. A link would be nice if you have the time.

But thinking more than one step ahead is drastically unlike Kenpachi, and as far as I'm concerned he only gave a damn about the possibility of death because that would have been any fun. I agree death may not have been imminent for him, but I do claim that it was likely at that point.

4) Haha, well you don't have to quote physics equations at me, I'm taking AP Physics currently. I'm well aware of all the laws, including the equal reaction. So, you're saying that Yoruichi's skin is harder than steel? Then I propose that Kenpachi's is as well - he was, after all, knocking away ceros and grabbing extremely sharp swords and scythes with his bare hands (without getting as much as a scratch).Good to know I don't have to try and explain the physics to you. You see my point then?

As for steel... obviously her reiatsu must have been involved too. But anyway, doesn't hierro translate as iron skin or something??? Hierro is a condensed layer of reiatsu imbued in the Espada's skin, whereas Kenpachi just has the reiatsu he leaks all the time, which we have no reason to suppose is as incredibly dense as an Espada's Hierro, though it is probably of more even distribution imo (that is, cutting him won't get any easier the further in you go, whereas it apparently does once you get through the skin with an Espada.) The real issue though is that she punched and kicked him hard enough to do serious damage through his hierro, without shunko. Shunko should give her more than enough power (kidou etc etc, remember) to hurt Kenpachi without feeling the effects herself.

5) Exactly. I don't really care about the outcome, I'm just here because I like arguing and I'm arguing with you because you seem to be the best opponent in this topic:bigsmile: I understand. If there's no quality debate happening it's no fun. And thanks :D

As for the Yoruichi reiatsu > Kenpachi reiatsu, I really doubt it. I mean, seriously - Kenpachi's reiatsu is pretty much what makes him a Captain, it'd be pretty lame if the others had it too (minus the big 3-4, possibly). There's absolutely no proof whatsoever supporting that, especially since he was impressed by Komamura's reiatsu when Komamura merely drew his sword. Sorry, I was going to grab you a link for that but I'm running out of time. I think it's around chapter 139, IIRC.

Well, I might occasionally check in here again at some point or I might not, depends if I'll have time ^_^

-DeltaDon't stress, I gotta study anyway. So maybe see you back, maybe not.

pumpkin13

03-18-2009, 07:33 PM

VanquishedAngel

03-18-2009, 09:51 PM

Hiwapi

03-18-2009, 10:00 PM

''I can't believe 27 people voted for yoru. Kenpachi keeps using his own strength and hitting any spots (like shes butt!) and yoru'll be done for.''

whatever.. i know how you ppl thinking;
'we saw zaraki when hes fighting someone but we dont know how strong yoruichi chick is. So yoruichi should be stronger than zaraki. i bet she has awesome shikai and bankai!'

thus is just wrong ( i mean thinking like that is wrong. But yoruichi chick could be much powerfull than zaraki. Cuz its freaking anime.)

Call me fanboy. But zaraki > all

Its like you say,i like white and then saying,white sucks,black is better :odd:

Anyway,imo you are wrong on the second bolded part its not Zaraki > all,its Goku > all

It had been really entertaining to see how (with fanboism or not) people try to support their opinion...i saw like what,4 answers that imo they actually knew what they were talking about...at least,some people try to be well rounded...

Let me say it once more,Yoruichi can take this not because she is sexy(although she is),not because she is awesome(again,despite the fact that she is),she would win this hypothetical fight because she is more rounded fighter,as she seemed with her previous fights...she isnt standing at once place taking hits because she finally found an opponent that can hit her,with Yoruichi opponent you cant just stand

And because we postin in this thread,screw all the above,Yoruichi will take this because she has some big and awesome boobs,i bet Zaraki cant beat her to this

Mikeno

03-18-2009, 10:10 PM

Damn.. Razvan and Anomandaris took all of the fun I could have had with this discussion..

dresscode

03-19-2009, 01:37 AM

Hmm let’s look at this for a sec

Yoruichi = Head of Shihouin clan- the strongest abilities of the great 4 noble clans of SS Master of Shunpo, Kido and Hand to Hand combat as well as Shikai and Bankai.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-319-page-6.html

Kenpachi = Nameless wanderer with near limitless reitsu causing him to force constant Shikai. Only man in history of SS to become Captain without attaining Bankai.

On paper it looks like a one way battle but being Shonen characters it would actually make more sense plot wise if the nameless wonderer was to somehow beat the strongest of the 4 noble clans.

The truth is we just can’t tell. This is Bleach people, I mean Ichigo managed to beat Kenpachi and Byakuya but I doubt anyone here could comfortably say that at this point Ichigo could beat Yoruichi.- “er in fact maybe he could with his constant power ups, aaaarg I don’t know anymore:wacko:”

Also it seems to be heavily implied throughout the manga that Yoruichi is akin to god when it comes to her fighting abilities.

My answer = I would like to say clearly Yoruichi but that would just be me being a fanboy (which I am) as the truth is until Kubo draws it I don’t have a clue.

arthur11

03-19-2009, 01:51 AM

Yourichi, i dont even think we've seen half her strength...

samir12

03-19-2009, 09:01 AM

Yourichi reatsu level is also unknown by the way, her age does not show how much reatsu she has (though it is obvious it must be really high) but there is no proof that her reatsu > Kenpachi reatsu.

sVne

03-19-2009, 09:12 AM

i dont think anyone in anime could win against 'Kenpachi' (i hope you guys know what it means..)
yoruichi..pretty strong and hot girl, goddest of flash.. blabla.. but beating 'teh strongest captain' in seireitei with bare hands? No freaking way.

i dont know that what 'stark' guy is capable of. But im pretty sure of that kenpachi will pwn him as well :P

Zaraki can't pwn Stark. Are you kidding?
If Zaraki had trouble with the FIFTH espada, how do you think he can manage with the first?

samir12

03-19-2009, 09:17 AM

Zaraki can't pwn Stark. Are you kidding?
If Zaraki had trouble with the FIFTH espada, how do you think he can manage with the first?

QFT, even though my vote is on Kenpachi, zaraki beating the first espada is just going way too far lol.

sVne

03-19-2009, 09:26 AM

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I wonder if the first espada has a second form too but is hiding it.

samir12

03-19-2009, 09:43 AM

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I wonder if the first espada has a second form too but is hiding it.

Well lets try stay on topic here lad lol

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 10:09 AM

How do you know that his reiatsu is much higher?!

I say, that Yoruichi, who was captain of 2 divisions at the same time + who is obviously much older than Zaraki, has more reiatsu and experience than he does.

Experience yes (in some areas), reiatsu no.

Age =/= reiatsu, besides Zaraki could easily be older than Yourichi (he appears to be older at least).

Because of the negative effect Zaraki's zanpakto has on him he's effectively fighting unreleased all the time.
He still fights at a captain-using-bankai level whilst 'unreleased' because of his huge reiatsu (his fighting instinct helps, but this doesn't give him any extra power).

As far as I can remember Yourichi doesn't have any feats that would suggest she has as high a reiatsu as Zaraki.

As for the experience, Yourichi obviously has more training that Zaraki, but Zaraki had been going around rukongai for who knows how many years fighting, I'd give him more battle experience seeing as captains spend 99% of their time doing other things.

That's because either a) you struggle to read or b)your Kenpachi fanboy-ism is clouding your judgement. You still haven't told me how Kenpachi would actually be able to hit Yoruichi.

Razvan has already annihilated your points, but I have to point out that simply because he could react on instinct to being slashed by an opponent and survive doesn't have a lot of impact on this discussion. Because Tousen and Yoruichi are not in anything like the same category, and also because blunt trauma impact doesn't work the same way. And no-one supporting Kenpachi has explained to mean exactly how he's going to hit her btw...

All he has to do is react fast enough to send his sword in her direction, it's not like she can block it.
He could probably take her out with one decent hit.

As for steel... obviously her reiatsu must have been involved too. But anyway, doesn't hierro translate as iron skin or something??? Hierro is a condensed layer of reiatsu imbued in the Espada's skin, whereas Kenpachi just has the reiatsu he leaks all the time, which we have no reason to suppose is as incredibly dense as an Espada's Hierro, though it is probably of more even distribution imo (that is, cutting him won't get any easier the further in you go, whereas it apparently does once you get through the skin with an Espada.) The real issue though is that she punched and kicked him hard enough to do serious damage through his hierro, without shunko. Shunko should give her more than enough power (kidou etc etc, remember) to hurt Kenpachi without feeling the effects herself.

Zaraki blocked Nnoitra's sword one-handed, I say that's a much better feat than Yourichi knocking Yammi over...

especially since he was impressed by Komamura's reiatsu when Komamura merely drew his sword. Sorry, I was going to grab you a link for that but I'm running out of time. I think it's around chapter 139, IIRC.

I don't see why this means Zaraki can't have a really high level of reiatsu.

Yourichi, i dont even think we've seen half her strength...

Tbh we've seen less then 1/5 at most if you factor in her bankai.

kochito22

03-19-2009, 10:15 AM

Call me fanboy. But zaraki > all

You made my day.

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 10:35 AM

Experience yes (in some areas), reiatsu no.

Age =/= reiatsu, besides Zaraki could easily be older than Yourichi (he appears to be older at least).

Are you kidding me? Everybody knows he has NO experience in controlling his reiatsu. Comparing to other pepz, he just uses it all together & a lot of it gets wasted because it shouts out of his body. A true master keeps in inside and delivers very high and precise kicks. If you look in the data captain book, Zaraki is last at that capability.

And if Zaraki is so "experienced" as you say, that he fought with so many people in Rukogai then how come he hadn't yet mastered his reiatsu? like, control it and put it like Ichigo in small attacks that have big impact. that only time he did it was in Nnoitra's fight and that was just a kendo technique. ONLY ONE.

If Ichigo learned to control it in a week or so and Zaraki couldnt in all those years, then he fails at reiatsu experience, so does your reply.

Yoruichi beats Zaraki at every aspect out there besides stamina. But who the fuck needs it when she can shunpo to his neck and cut his head off?

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 10:49 AM

Are you kidding me? Everybody knows he has NO experience in controlling his reiatsu. Comparing to other pepz, he just uses it all together & a lot of it gets wasted because it shouts out of his body. A true master keeps in inside and delivers very high and precise kicks. If you look in the data captain book, Zaraki is last at that capability.

I'm talking about how much reiatsu they have and their experience in general...

And if Zaraki is so "experienced" as you say, that he fought with so many people in Rukogai then how come he hadn't yet mastered his reiatsu? like, control it and put it like Ichigo in small attacks that have big impact. that only time he did it was in Nnoitra's fight and that was just a kendo technique. ONLY ONE.

Because he dislikes it.

If Ichigo learned to control it in a week or so and Zaraki couldnt in all those years, then he fails at reiatsu experience, so does your reply.

I never said Zaraki had good reiatsu control.

Yoruichi beats Zaraki at every aspect out there besides stamina. But who the fuck needs it when she can shunpo to his neck and cut his head off?

Zaraki still beats her in terms of total amount of reiatsu.

Note: I'm debating assuming Yourichi has no zanpakuto seeing as it's pretty pointless to try and argue about abilities we don't know about.

kochito22

03-19-2009, 11:03 AM

We don't know about her reiatsu amount but that's still a topic of discussion. People are saying that Zaraki > ?

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 11:50 AM

Note: I'm debating assuming Yourichi has no zanpakuto seeing as it's pretty pointless to try and argue about abilities we don't know about.

She has knives hidden. Am I the only sane person here who actually saw the anime?

So, she can still shunpo & cut his head off. simple as that.

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 11:54 AM

^ Anime is non-canon.

Otherwise I'll use movie Zaraki, who is better than just about everyone else in Bleach...

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 12:07 PM

Otherwise I'll use movie Zaraki

You do that & tell me how it goes.
Drama effects are just plain idiotic. but, hey if it makes you feel any better, go ahead, use movie kenpachi. he lost like every battle out there & in that Hitsugaya double zan movie, he went all badass towards the opponent & got owned in seconds.

and yet you still haven't said anything how the fuck will zaraki be able to avoid yoruichi coming at him with a knife and cutting his head off. i keep repeating myself..and yet no one wants to debate with me on this thing.

Otherwise I'll use movie Zaraki, who is better than just about everyone else in Bleach...

SERIOUSLY, YOU MADE MY FUCKIN DAY...hahahahahahahahahahahhahaahhahaahahhahaaaah

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 12:10 PM

It was a joke about how Zaraki is portrayed in the movies -.-'.

Do you have a manga scan of Yourichi using those knives?
If you don't then she doesn't have them.

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 12:12 PM

In the fight with Soi Fon. you should have already knew this.

AizenvsUrahara

03-19-2009, 12:20 PM

here are your knifes
http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000107242/09.jpg

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 12:27 PM

In the fight with Soi Fon. you should have already knew this.

You said 'anime' and didn't provide the scan of them -.-'.
They were only used in that one scan, I can't be expected to remember every page of a 300+ chapter manga.

here are your knifes
http://img56.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000107242/09.jpg

So Yourichi is going to simply lop off Zaraki's head with two little throwing blades that Soi Fong deflected with the part of her shikai that covers her arm?
The same Zaraki who blocked Nnoitra's blade with his bare hand.

samir12

03-19-2009, 12:46 PM

I don't see how a knife can cut of zaraki's head, if Nnoitra could not cut of Kenpachi's head with 6 arms loaded with blades, then i dont think knives would be able to do so. Plus remember that Ichigo could not cut Zaraki because his reatsu was not high enough and then was able to because his reatsu increased thus sharpening his zan, unless yourichi uses her zan, i just dont see how her knives could even do damage assuming that Yourichi's reatsu does not sharpen them. (we only know that an increased reatsu sharpens the zan)

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 12:52 PM

Nnoitra got Zaraki in the neck with one of his giant blades and that didn't cause a large amount of damage, so Yourichi's throwing knives chopping his head off seems unlikely.

-----

I don't see what's so funny about my movie Zaraki comment, in tDDR he takes no damage from having that huge pillar dropped on him then lifts it with just the force of his reiatsu, a very OP feat if you ask me.

Paragon

03-19-2009, 01:09 PM

Kenpachi could essentially one shot Yoruichi, but thats if he actually manages to actually land a hit and seeing as how thats just not going to happen Yoruichi goes Shunko and wins this.

She has knives hidden. Am I the only sane person here who actually saw the anime?

So, she can still shunpo & cut his head off. simple as that.

ROFL!!!

Those hidden knives won't do a thing to Kenpachi.

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 01:11 PM

I don't see what's so funny about my movie Zaraki comment, in tDDR he takes no damage from having that huge pillar dropped on him then lifts it with just the force of his reiatsu, a very OP feat if you ask me.

yeah & Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya. which means her lvl. of speed is far more superior than any other captain we know of their info so far.

and I wasn't aware of Zaraki having hierro. because you sounded like he can't be cut by Yoruichi's knives. what do you think they're made of? plastic? she in flash mode can cut his neck like butter. :guitar1:

you're just a sore loser. and who cares about that pillar? it's a movie. drama effect in motion, besides this isn't a match of strength. overall...

yoruichi can even use kidou & put him to the ground. then slice his head. so many possibilities.

samir12

03-19-2009, 01:17 PM

and I wasn't aware of Zaraki having hierro. because you sounded like he can't be cut by Yoruichi's knives. what do you think they're made of? plastic? she in flash mode can cut his neck like butter. :guitar1:

Didnt say Zaraki had hierro i just said that a large reatsu is needed to actually cut him shown by Ichigo (again I need to know if Yourichi can actually put reatsu into her knives), to add to my point Tousens shikai ability (dunno the name of know its a buch of swords that pierces the enemy) did cut him a little bit but Zaraki was still smiling and it seemed that little harm was done (Komamaru's shikai didnt do sinch against zaraki too). Again what makes you think that the knives would cut his head off, the knives could not possibly be more powerfull then Tousens and Komamaru's shikai, plus we didnt say the knives would not cut him, we said it would not cut his head off. Give me a manga link to show how in flash mode she can cut anything.

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 01:18 PM

yeah & Yoruichi is faster than Byakuya. which means her lvl. of speed is far more superior than any other captain we know of their info so far.

She's faster than him, I'm not debating that.
Zaraki has extremely quick reactions though and he only need to hit her once, she doesn't have the strength to take Zaraki out quickly and the longer the fight drags out the more likely he is to get a hit on her.

and I wasn't aware of Zaraki having hierro. because you sounded like he can't be cut by Yoruichi's knives. what do you think they're made of? plastic? she in flash mode can cut his neck like butter. :guitar1:

Zaraki's reiatsu protects him apparently.
Again, he blocked Nnoitra's sword with his bare hand.

you're just a sore loser. and who cares about that pillar? it's a movie. drama effect in motion, besides this isn't a match of strength. overall...

Sore loser at what?
Movie Zaraki is OP, it's stupid but he is.

I'm not even trying to use his movie feats in the main arguement anyway, movies aren't cannon.

yoruichi can even use kidou & put him to the ground. then slice his head. so many possibilities.

When has she used kidou powerful enough to hold down Zaraki?

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 01:20 PM

Didnt say Zaraki had hierro, to add to my point Tousens shikai ability (dunno the name alli know its a buch of swords) did cut him a little bit but Zaraki was still smiling and it seemed that little harm was done (Komamaru's shikai didnt do sinch against zaraki too). Again what makes you think that the knives would cut his head off, we didnt say the knoves would not cut him, we said it would not cut his head off. Give me a manga link to show how in flash mode she can cut anything.

Ichigo's shikai was slicing him open like 100 battles ago..and yet now I keep hearing from other users, that he will barely get cut. In flash mode her speed and strength are increased + she can deflect attacks. I did not say she could cut anything, but she will most likely be able to cut his head off. that would be enough...or are you going to tell me he won't die from that either?

@Dark, right ..in your little world...if Yoruichi is hit only once by zaraki, it's all over..but somehow she will need to cut him 1000000000000+ times for him to even bleed a little. cool. i did not know kenpachi was breaking special ops captains like they were nothing.

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 01:24 PM

Ichigo's shikai was slicing him open like 100 battles ago..and yet now I keep hearing from other users, that he will barely get cut. In flash mode her speed and strength are increased + she can deflect attacks. I did not say she could cut anything, but she will most likely be able to cut his head off. that would be enough...or are you going to tell me he won't die from that either?

We're talking about the same throwing knifes that Soi Fong deflected with her arm right?

@Dark, right ..in your little world...if Yoruichi is hit only once by zaraki, it's all over..but somehow she will need to cut him 1000000000000+ times for him to even bleed a little. cool. i did not know kenpachi was breaking special ops captains like they were nothing.

If Yourichi is hit by Zaraki it is all over.

She won't be able to cut him at all, the idea was that she would have to beat him to death to win.

Also, she would still have her zan/shikai/bankai to curbstomp him with if this was a real fight, so no, he can't break special ops captains like they're nothing.

Razvan_Asakura

03-19-2009, 01:29 PM

samir12

03-19-2009, 01:35 PM

We havent even seen Yourichi cut anything in flash mode especially in her knives (im not sure of this so please post a manga link if im wrong), so you havent really got any hard proofed evidence that Yourichi can cut his head off in flash mode,
but she will most likely be able to cut his head off

lol even your not 100% sure that Yourichi will cut his head off, the way you are debating about this whole cutting head off scheme is that you're really sure about this point. It would of been alright if you had only stated that yourichi would beat him in flash mode but come i mean come on, a 2 second battle where zaraki would get his head cut off, i dont see any other Yourichi supporters saying this this so why are you the only one?

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 01:40 PM

It was her shikai, if you look closely. Not her hand.

And she deflected them by the side, because that's how knives are deflected, it wasn't like she deflected them by punching them in the pin-point spot. -.-

good job on stating something useless and so obvious.

She hit the side of the knife and it bounced back the way it came?
What part of the knife were you expecting to cut Zaraki anyway?

AND..wtf..yoruichi will not throw her knives, she will just hold one in a hand, shunpo to him and cut his head. when will you be able to comprehend this sentence.

The knifes aren't even big enough to cut his whole neck in one blow.

Zaraki stopped Nnoitra's blade with his hand, no way in hell are those knifes stronger than Nnoitra's blade.

-MaNi-

03-19-2009, 01:54 PM

EDIT: this was aimed at samirs post just after raz said how yoruichi will cut off zaraki's head.. i didnt realise there were other pages (i did a quick reply)..

^^thats never happened before because no one is stupid like kenpachi to let people get free shots at him... who in the bleach universe is retareded like thatt? lol and its too much for the anime to censor so it doesnt happen.. doesnt mean it couldn't.. swords can cut body parts, why not cut the head?.. we've seen chopped arms, arms ripped off, punches going through the body, hole's being formed in people's bodies.. so how can you not expect the most basic of basics to happen.. cut the head..?

and yoruichi has a zanpaktou.. otherwise she wouldn't have shikai and wouldn't be a captain.. she doesnt use a sword because she doesnt need it or cant be arsed to carry it round.. though obviously if the time comes she'll get it out and go bankai on mr retard here who lets people get free hits at him...

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 02:06 PM

^ We're not factoring in her zanpakuto because she never seems to carry it her with her and we don't know how she fights with it.

The difference is all those injuries have been caused by zanpakuto, which have the reiatsu of their wielder aswell as their own to help them to cut the person (as far as I can remember only arrancar have used their bare hands for cutting people and Yourichi isn't an arrancar so...).

There's also the fact that Zaraki's reiatsu acts like hierro to some extent, allowing him to avoid being cut like he did when he block Nnoitra's blade.

samir12

03-19-2009, 02:08 PM

EDIT: this was aimed at samirs post just after raz said how yoruichi will cut off zaraki's head.. i didnt realise there were other pages (i did a quick reply)..

Well lol you should've read rest of the posts on the other pages. ;)

AizenvsUrahara

03-19-2009, 02:50 PM

how will it all over if yoruichi gets hit by kenpachi ?She manhandled a espada whit her bare hands yammi`s hirro could`t get pierced by ishidas arrows or damaged by hitsugaya bankai and she owned him whiteout shunko ,shikai or bankai soto me she`s proved that she has brute strength and we know she is way faster than kenpachi she outclasses that guy in almost everything except maybe riatsu so how can you think that he can beat her

samir12

03-19-2009, 02:52 PM

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 02:57 PM

AizenvsUrahara

03-19-2009, 03:53 PM

She only knocked him to the ground, he wasn't injured by her, Ishida only fired one arrow which knocked him onto one knee and it was Hitsugaya's shikai that he broke out of.

yeah you were right it`s was hitsugaya`s shikai.she did injure him more than they did whit their weapons(the mine not included)

Darkmaterials

03-19-2009, 04:11 PM

Fair enough that she did more damage than their attacks.

Yammi had just had his arm lopped off by Ichigo and he did get back up a couple of seconds after she knocked him down though.

Gear4

03-19-2009, 05:25 PM

Kenpachi's reaction is insane as exemplified by his battle with Tousen. But we don't know Yoruichi's zanpaktou's ability. If it is not a 2 hit kill like Soifon's type of thing I say Kenpachi'll win.

AizenvsUrahara

03-19-2009, 05:34 PM

Fair enough that she did more damage than their attacks.

Yammi had just had his arm lopped off by Ichigo and he did get back up a couple of seconds after she knocked him down though.

all i`m saying is she did more damage whit her bare hand while some could`t do it whit weapons. bare hands >Espada that`s a feat unmatched by no one in bleach.

kochito22

03-19-2009, 05:35 PM

One finger > Bankai

Aizen did that.

Galvatron

03-19-2009, 05:36 PM

No one here has even seen Unohana fight. Other than a few subtle remarks about her seniority from Shunsui and Ukitake, every other remark about her being super strong is rather unsubstantiated. (I understand there is a power graph about the captains, but that's got to be long outdated)

I'd venture to say that of the current Gotei captains, only Yamamoto, Shunsui, and Ukitake (if he isn't coughing up a lung) are stronger than Kenpachi. Unohana may be, but until Kubo includes a chapter showcasing her strength, it's all a matter of opinion.

I like Yoruichi, but I don't think she has the physical power to beat Zaraki without the eye-patch. She needs to show more before I can think otherwise. Speed can only take you so far before you're swatted like a gnat.

AizenvsUrahara

03-19-2009, 05:42 PM

One finger > Bankai

Aizen did that.

i was talking about bare hand vs hirroe and a lot of people think that it was Aizen`s shikai at work when he stopped ichigo`s bankai

Lnrd

03-19-2009, 06:00 PM

How is that? That was the first time he ever met Ichigo, so he couldn't do the intiation of hypnosis.

McFlyan

03-19-2009, 06:36 PM

No one here has even seen Unohana fight. Other than a few subtle remarks about her seniority from Shunsui and Ukitake, every other remark about her being super strong is rather unsubstantiated. (I understand there is a power graph about the captains, but that's got to be long outdated)

I'd venture to say that of the current Gotei captains, only Yamamoto, Shunsui, and Ukitake (if he isn't coughing up a lung) are stronger than Kenpachi. Unohana may be, but until Kubo includes a chapter showcasing her strength, it's all a matter of opinion.

Well we haven't seen ukitake or kyoraku fight for more than a few seconds. By the logic which you have just stated then ukitake and kyoraku couldn't beat kenpachi either. Not one of them has really showcased their strength at all. I am a fanboy of both kenpachi and yoruichi but I just think that yoru would be able to outpace kenpachi easily and that she is strong enough (barehanded and especially with shunko) to beat him down.

Galvatron

03-19-2009, 07:54 PM

Well we haven't seen ukitake or kyoraku fight for more than a few seconds. By the logic which you have just stated then ukitake and kyoraku couldn't beat kenpachi either. Not one of them has really showcased their strength at all. I am a fanboy of both kenpachi and yoruichi but I just think that yoru would be able to outpace kenpachi easily and that she is strong enough (barehanded and especially with shunko) to beat him down.

There's a huge flaw in your post -- being that we HAVE seen Shunsui and Ukitake fight a Yamamoto in Shikai, using their shikai's. Also, coupled with the fact that Yamamoto both said flat out that they were the first two captains and are the strongest.

Nobody has seen Unohana do anything except fly around with a big manta that heals. With Unohana, we get some subtle hints, and an outdated power chart. Hardly anything that could hold any weight in any sort of valid argument. I'm not hating on her; just noting that fact that we have yet to see anything from her in regards to her fighting ability.

As for her ability to "pummel him", if getting sliced up any not being phased one bit doesn't bother Kenpachi, I doubt punches and kicks will be anymore effective.

McFlyan

03-19-2009, 09:07 PM

There's a huge flaw in your post -- being that we HAVE seen Shunsui and Ukitake fight a Yamamoto in Shikai, using their shikai's. Also, coupled with the fact that Yamamoto both said flat out that they were the first two captains and are the strongest.

Nobody has seen Unohana do anything except fly around with a big manta that heals. With Unohana, we get some subtle hints, and an outdated power chart. Hardly anything that could hold any weight in any sort of valid argument. I'm not hating on her; just noting that fact that we have yet to see anything from her in regards to her fighting ability.

As for her ability to "pummel him", if getting sliced up any not being phased one bit doesn't bother Kenpachi, I doubt punches and kicks will be anymore effective.

1. Please give me the chapter where he flat out says that they are the strongest. He does say that they were the first two to graduate from the academy but I'd like to see the chapter where he says they are the strongest. If you can find it I'll shut up about that one.

2. Unohana's zan heals people, is that the only thing it does? Rukia's zan has 3 dances (I think) for example so we just don't know what she's capable of. I'm not saying unohana is stronger than ukitake and kyoraku but I am saying that until Kubo tells us differently we have to look at them as being on the same level.

3. What do ukitake and kyoraku's zans do? What powers do they have? If you can't answer this then they HAVE NOT displayed their strength/power and you can't say that either of them is stronger than unohana. We flat out don't know what the three of them are capable of so don't make comparisons about what kenpachi can do based on kyoraku, ukitake, or unohana's supposed strength.

4. Not being phased one bit?
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/0/311/16
I think he was phased enough that he was forced to use kendo (3rd panel).

darkp

03-20-2009, 03:31 AM

I will go with yourichi too cause of power cap theory . She should be at the high tier captain lvl or at least ı am guessing that . I will not analyze fight cause I dont think we dont have too many reference for analyze. We dont know yourichi shikai or bankai . And we did not see kenpachi against a speedy opponent so we could not see how kenpachi can react against speed .

Darkmaterials

03-20-2009, 08:41 AM

all i`m saying is she did more damage whit her bare hand while some could`t do it whit weapons. bare hands >Espada that`s a feat unmatched by no one in bleach.

Ichigo just tore off Ulq's arm lol

Zaraki beating Nnoitra is a better feat then Yourichi knocking over Yammi tbh, and she only knocked Yammi to the ground, he got back up after a couple of seconds.

I'm not taking her zan into account seeing as we don't know anything about it.
She curbstops Zaraki if we use powerscaling so there's not really much discussion on the subject anyway =/.

UnadvisedGoose

03-20-2009, 02:38 PM

^Actually he didn't. He used his zan to cut it off.

And this depends on her zan. She needs it in this fight. If she has it, I say win. If she doesn't, I say she loses. And we know she has one and all, and she was smart enough to realize she couldn't beat Byakuya without her zan, I assume she knows the same of Kenpachi as well. But like I said, this whole thing hinges on her having it IMO. As long as she has even her base blade to parry with, she could win with Shunko and only that, and of course her amazing Hakuda skills and speed. My two cents.

Captainarmstead

03-21-2009, 04:50 AM

Zaraki wins based upon beating other opponents (other than Ichigo, which was plotkai). Just because she is faster doesn't mean she can win. Zaraki can take shots from anyone and laugh. He probably wouldn't even need to pull out Kendo for this. Of course this is all predicated on the fact that Yourichi isn't using her Zan. If she does than its a whole nother story since we have no idea what its capable of.

Szarlej

03-21-2009, 04:51 AM

Zaraki can take shots from anyone and laugh. He probably wouldn't even need to pull out Kendo for this.

Any proof?

Captainarmstead

03-21-2009, 05:30 AM

Zaraki has taken shots from Ichinose, Ichigo, Tousen and Nnoitra. That's fairly comprehensive.

kochito22

03-21-2009, 05:47 AM

Ichinose doesn't exist.

samir12

03-21-2009, 06:05 AM

My final conclusion is that Yourichi without zan, Kenpachi wins. Yourichi with zan, im looking more over to Yourichi winning this but I we need to know what her zan could do.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 06:49 AM

kochito22

03-21-2009, 06:55 AM

Your fanboyism disturbs me.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 07:00 AM

Kochito22, are u talking about me? If so, I don't understand why u said that. Please explain.

kochito22

03-21-2009, 07:17 AM

O, man come on guys. I really don't understand why u guys think that Yoruichi can ever win a fight against Ken with just using her shikai.

Yoruichi fought an unreleased Yammi and 'won' the fight with quite some injuries and trouble.

Ken fought a period on par with Noitora without getting rid of his eyepatch. But after that, Ken got rid of his eyepatch and defeated a ten times more powerfull released espada then Yammi by one slash just by using his freakin two arms, that almost everybody uses in a fight!!!

U guys say that Yoruichi is fast and yes, she is indeed fast, but Ken defeated 2 captains that had released their bankai's in a situation where he couldn't see, smell or hear.
I mean, Ken doesn't even have to move, he just waits till Yoruichi comes near him and then slashes her and it's the end of the story. He can do that cuz he is able to sense the wind that Yoruichi has created with her speed lol.

Just fast isn't everything. U gotta have some great defense to win against Ken. Yoruichi got injured by fighting a weakling and please don't tell me that Yammi is faster then Ken :)

However I must say that we haven't even seen Yoruichi's shikai. Based on what she has done with the fight with Yammi, I say that Yoruichi may fight on par (at most) with Ken if she has released her bankai.

The only captains that can win a fight against Ken are old Yama and Shunsui, I think, at the moment.

Yoruichi beat Yammy down bare-handed. She assumed he'd quit because he was obviously outmatched. That's why he was able to attack her.

Komamura didn't release his bankai in an area where Zaraki couldn't see. Komamura attacked Zaraki, what once? with a shikai move. Kenpachi fought Tousen one on one inside Tousen's bankai area.

If Kenpachi was truly on par with Espada #5, why did he say that he might die in this fight (without his eyepatch)?

That stuff about Kenpachi sensing the wind Yoruichi causes was just silly.

The only captains being able to fight Zaraki are Yamamoto and Shunsui? I'm not even gonna touch that one. You defeated yourself with that statement.

(SIC)NESS

03-21-2009, 07:38 AM

why does everybody say: if yoruichi uses her shikai kenpachi will be killed or stuff like that ?
we haven't seen it so she can't use it in this battle obviously if she is allowed to use her shikai or even bankai why not give kenpachi a bankai to??

okay kenpachi doesn't have bankai (not even a real shikai) yoruichi probably does but she hasn't shown it yet so you can't count in something we don't know about maybe her zan sucks and that's whe she doesn't use it who knows

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-21-2009, 07:41 AM

The only captains that can win a fight against Ken are old Yama and Shunsui, I think, at the moment.

lol this doesn't even make sense

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 07:45 AM

Man, that's really silly. Asume or not asume, if Yoruichi was really that fast or strong, she wouldn't got hit or injured that much.

Yeh, ur right on this one, I overlooked, Komamura didn't attack Ken when he had lost his senses. However, u are wrong about the shikai, Komamura attacked Ken with a bankai.

Ken said that because he didn't want to use his two arms to fight because the old man told him to and yeh Ken isn't on par with Noitora, he is much stronger then him.

O, please, about that sensing wind thing was just a stupid joke, please don't take that too seriously.

Indeed, those are the only captains who can defeat Ken at the moment, at least that's what I think. But what does it matter, we are talking about Yourichi and Ken here. And if u mean that I only said captains, that's because all the current captains are better then Yoruichi, except for Soifon, Komamura and Hitsugaya.

Razvan_Asakura

03-21-2009, 08:02 AM

I mean, Ken doesn't even have to move, he just waits till Yoruichi comes near him and then slashes her and it's the end of the story. He can do that cuz he is able to sense the wind that Yoruichi has created with her speed lol.

THEN, COULD HE PREDICT YORUICHI'S FINGER GOING UP, JUST BY SENSING THE WIND AROUND HER HAND? :finger:

The only captains that can win a fight against Ken are old Yama and Shunsui, I think, at the moment.

If you say that Shunsui can beat Zaraki with no proof, then I say Kon beats Shunsui with no proof as well.

so, Kon > Shunsui > Zaraki. Yoruichi stomps Kon.
Yoruichi still wins, by your mentally challenged logic.

eneru92

03-21-2009, 08:03 AM

And if u mean that I only said captains, that's because all the current captains are better then Yoruichi, except for Soifon, Komamura and Hitsugaya.

What ?
That's absolutely wrong .
No way people like Mayuri , Tousen , Byakuya , Gin and Kenpachi are stronger than Yoruichi , who has been a captain much much time before them .
Only the four oldest captain ( yama , shinsui , unohana and ukitake ) are stronger than yoruichi .

kochito22

03-21-2009, 08:05 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3XAEgiHSfM

Skip to about 5:00. That doesn't look like bankai.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 08:09 AM

Hahahahaha, come on, did u even read my posts? I said it was just a joke, why so serious?

Old Yama sees Ukitake and Shunsui as the strongest captains but since Ukitake is half dead now, I don't think he can defeat Ken.

I think u are the one who is talking with no logic. You can have read the mangas's but u also have to think about the posibillities of things. Do u really think that Yoruichi can defeat Ken based on what is showed so far?

kochito22

03-21-2009, 08:11 AM

Yamamoto said that they graduated first. If they were the strongest captains as you say, they'd be stronger than him. Yes, I do think that Yoruichi can defeat Kenpachi based on what we've seen so far. I think that Soi Fon and Mayuri could both defeat Kenpachi based on what we've seen so far.

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-21-2009, 08:24 AM

THEN, COULD HE PREDICT YORUICHI'S FINGER GOING UP, JUST BY SENSING THE WIND AROUND HER HAND? :finger:

If you say that Shunsui can beat Zaraki with no proof, then I say Kon beats Shunsui with no proof as well.

so, Kon > Shunsui > Zaraki. Yoruichi stomps Kon.
Yoruichi still wins, by your mentally challenged logic.

lol

but there is no way Kenpachi is stronger then the top 4 not to mention yourichi

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 08:29 AM

Kochito22, please look at this video and listen what komamura says at this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHBv6F-PfGk&feature=related

Yeh, I said that they are indeed stronger then Ken, but I also said that Ukitake is half dead now cuz of his sickness :P

Well, if u have to look at this way, we can't argue anymore, cuz I really don't c Mayuri and Soifon can ever defeat Ken. If u really think so, u can give me some reasons though and we will talk from there.

To enrue92:

I have a question for u. Did u read my whole post? U even quoted it. I said the captains are better, not stronger. Mayuri for example, I don't think he is stronger, but because of his dirty tricks, I am sure he can win against Yoruichi.
Tousen and Gin are both a lot stronger then Yammi, since when Yammi was killed, Aizen didn't care one bit, however, Aizen sees Tousen and Gin as his right, left hand men. Byakuya may be not as fast as Yoruichi, but with his other skills and techniques, he is able to finish Yoruichi off. As for Ken, I don't wanna talk about it, since I have given so many reasons for that. Please, people, my sentences are here for to read, please read first and then come argue with me.

kochito22

03-21-2009, 08:34 AM

Well, if u have to look at this way, we can't argue anymore, cuz I really don't c Mayuri and Soifon can ever defeat Ken. If u really think so, u can give me some reasons though and we will talk from there.

To enrue92:

I have a question for u. Did u read my whole post? U even quoted it. I said the captains are better, not stronger. Mayuri for example, I don't think he is stronger, but because of his dirty tricks, I am sure he can win against Yoruichi.
Tousen and Gin are both a lot stronger then Yammi, since when Yammi was killed, Aizen didn't care one bit, however, Aizen sees Tousen and Gin as his right, left hand men. Byakuya may be not as fast as Yoruichi, but with his other skills and techniques, he is able to finish Yoruichi off. As for Ken, I don't wanna talk about it, since I have given so many reasons for that. Please, people, my sentences are here for to read, please read first and then come argue with me.

Hmm... The poison from Mayuri's bankai is fatal. Two touches from Soi Fon would kill him.

It hasn't been confirmed that Yammi is dead. Aizen didn't see Yammi "killed."

Byakuya had a chance to "finish Yoruichi off." She ditched him while carrying dead weight.

Your sentences are easily read. They just reek of failure.

In the video, I see Komamura block one of Zaraki's swings bare handed unharmed.

I also see Zaraki saying that Komamura ran off before they even got started. You claimed that Zaraki beat 2 captains.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 08:49 AM

Poison takes time to work, not everybody are like Szayel Apollo who stands for ages asking questions. Ken is no nerd, he wouldn't ask anything or listen to his talk, he doesn't has the patience, he just wanna fight. By the time the poison works, it's likely that Ken has already finished Mayuri off. As for Soifon, do u think that Ken will just stand there and wait to be getting hit? It's not an easy task to hit someone twice on the same spot.

Yammi is already dead, Ishida killed him, in the last few manga chapters. But maybe ur right if ur talking about the time when Yoruichi fought against Yammi. He was defeated, at that time.

Anyway, Byakuya can defeat Yoruichi too.

U c Komamura blocked Ken's swings unharmed. Do u think that the 500 kg armor of Komamura has no effect?

Komamur called his bankai out, Ken had his eyepatch on, do u seriously think that Ken would have kept his eyepatch on if he thinks he would lose? About that claiming thing, ur right on that one. I shouldn't have said that. But if they have started a fight, don't u think that Ken would win?

kochito22

03-21-2009, 08:58 AM

Even if Kenpachi does kill Mayuri, he will still die. I doubt he could kill Mayuri. If Mayuri feels that his life is in danger, he turns to goo.

I repeat, we haven't seen that Yammi is dead. Does it make sense to you that Kubo would let Yammi die before we see his release?

Byakuya could not kill Yoruichi in SS. He tried. He failed. So did you.

Regardless, Komamura was not harmed.

I don't think it makes sense to speculate about what would have happened. It didn't happen so you can't use it as evidence.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 09:14 AM

Still, Ken would have still defeated him. If he retreats, that means that he is admitting defeat.

Not everyone likes things to be perfect, cuz then it wouldn't be realistic anymore. U can't say that Yammi is not dead beacause he hasn't shown his released form yet. That's like o that grandpa can't die yet cuz he hasn't fullfilled his wishes yet. I mean what the hell of a arguement is that?

Byakuya didn't meant to kill her, those two have a strong bond but if he had gone all out, he can. And I don't know why ur are insulting me, cuz I am just giving u answers. I can say o he can defeat him or her or whatever, but do u understand why I said that? NOOOOOO... So I am just giving reasons. The only one who has failed is u. I have countered every aruement u have been givin me, but u didn't do the same for me.

What the hell??? A forum is a place to speculate things, do u think that Yoruichi will ever fight Ken? Uuuh... NOOOOO, maybe? If it is like what u said that if things haven't happened and so u can't use as evidence. Then why the hell are we comparing the captains for? They are never gonna fight each other so...

kochito22

03-21-2009, 09:19 AM

Still, Ken would have still defeated him. If he retreats, that means that he is admitting defeat.

Your link even showed his reason for leaving. You're grasping at straws.

Not everyone likes things to be perfect, cuz then it wouldn't be realistic anymore. U can't say that Yammi is not dead beacause he hasn't shown his released form yet. That's like o that grandpa can't die yet cuz he hasn't fullfilled his wishes yet. I mean what the hell of a arguement is that?

It's a manga. If you want realism, go watch CNN. We haven't seen a corpse. We last saw Yammy alive. It's reasonable to say that he's alive.

Byakuya didn't meant to kill her, those two have a strong bond but if he had gone all out, he can. And I don't know why ur are insulting me, cuz I am just giving u answers. I can say o he can defeat him or her or whatever, but do u understand why I said that? NOOOOOO... So I am just giving reasons. The only one who has failed is u. I have countered every aruement u have been givin me, but u didn't do the same for me.

You deserve a cookie for effort. Unfortunately, you're falling short of your goals.

What the hell??? A forum is a place to speculate things, do u think that Yoruichi will ever fight Ken? Uuuh... NOOOOO, maybe? If it is like what u said that if things haven't happened and so u can't use as evidence. Then why the hell are we comparing the captains for? They are never gonna fight each other so...

You completely missed the meaning of my statement.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 09:29 AM

And u say that I am failing, ur talking about Komamura, I was talking about Mayuri. U really don't read, do u?

So... Where is ur evidence? :P U have none. Asuming that Yammi is alive cuz of not showing his released form is just ridiculous.

What do u mean by ''You deserve a cookie for effort. Unfortunately, you're falling short of your goals.''? I have given u the reason why I think that Byakuya can win and this is the best u have got? Oh, my...

Then what is ur statement, please tell...

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-21-2009, 09:38 AM

I think he meant that we've seen the release of every espada thus far....it would be dumb to not show yammy's, even if it's short lived

kochito22

03-21-2009, 09:40 AM

You didn't give a name. That's your error. It's ok. I forgive you.

That wasn't the only reasoning I gave. The rest went over your head.

Your reasoning is faulty. We've seen a page or two of her teasing him and you try to justify that as a reason why he wouldn't kill her. If he didn't plan on killing her, why would he attack her?

I'll say it again: I don't think it makes sense to speculate about what would have happened. It didn't happen so you can't use it as evidence. The fight never took place yet you use it to bolster your argument.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 09:42 AM

I know what he means, still it is not a good enough arguement. Some writers are just not so fond of perfection.

kochito22

03-21-2009, 09:44 AM

I don't think that you know what I mean.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 09:57 AM

Wow, ur saying it's my error? Ur forgiving me? What the hell???? If I talk about cars will u start talking about trees?

Then tell me, what else do u have to offer?

Let me ask u a question, if u are fighting with a student who is in ur class and he did something u don't like. And u hit him, do u plan to kill him?

I will repeat once more and please read this time. If everything must have an evidence, why do we have a forum? Why are we comparing the strength of the captains, who have never fought each other? U have a brain, don't u think that if Ken thought that his life was in danger he wouldn't at least took off his eyepatch? U said it urself with ur previous post. U said if Mayuri knows that if his life is in danger he would have fled. Did that situation occur in the manga or anime? NOOOOOO...

Please, just admit that u are an epic failure, u don't even read ur own posts and ur saying that I am a failure?

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 10:01 AM

Yeh, ur right, I don't know what u mean beacause u are talking nonsense and u are constantly giving me excuses, like that I don't understand and that u don't mean it like that and then u don't even give me explanations, instead, u are just talking nonsense again.

Razvan_Asakura

03-21-2009, 10:15 AM

Stop talking to yourself Zeru. My eyes hurt as it is already...

And Yoruichi is faster, Zaraki can't react to her moves. She'll split his head off, before he could smile.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 10:18 AM

Did u even read his and mine posts? If u agree with him then I will say, nope, u can't just speculate things, u have no evidence. :P

kochito22

03-21-2009, 10:51 AM

Yeah... Yoruichi takes this.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 11:07 AM

Is this all what u have got? Just saying Yoruichi takes this? Man... u are low. U are really crawling back. But I guess that I have already saw this coming. It was just a matter of time.

kochito22

03-21-2009, 11:11 AM

Your ranting is distasteful. There are plenty of reasons why Yoruichi would win this.

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 11:14 AM

Really? U sure u wanna start this all over again?

Kingkon

03-21-2009, 11:15 AM

kochito22

03-21-2009, 11:15 AM

Really? U sure u wanna start this all over again?

I don't know what you're talking about.

Razvan_Asakura

03-21-2009, 11:19 AM

Who doesn't agree that Yoruichi can shunpo her ass straight to Kenpachi's back. cut off his butt cheeks, cut off his arm tendons, then taunt him until he bleeds to death.

but yes, i agree Zeru..he'll laugh///until he will die. :/

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-21-2009, 11:22 AM

How can Kenpachi beat Yourichi if he can't catch her?

kochito22

03-21-2009, 11:23 AM

Zeru15 thinks that Zaraki is God's gift to martial arts.

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-21-2009, 11:25 AM

Zeru15 thinks that Zaraki is God's gift to martial arts.

based on.......nothing?

kochito22

03-21-2009, 11:27 AM

He has a bunch of assumptions based on nothing.

Meta

03-21-2009, 11:29 AM

spam along and there will be infractions people :)

kochito22

03-21-2009, 11:34 AM

Meta, who do you think would win? Yoruichi or Zaraki?

Zeru15

03-21-2009, 11:39 AM

kochito22

03-21-2009, 11:45 AM

Oh relax. No one's ganging up on you. A few people just disagree with you. Yammy is used to gauge Yoruichi's strength. I doubt Kenpachi will slash her. Yoruichi moved a lot faster than a group of special ops members.

Look at the end of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgcFVeQtxU

Nocturne' Ichigo

03-21-2009, 11:51 AM

Do u have evidence, KingKon? I don't understand, why are u guys so blind? Don't u understand what logic is? Are u guys helping Kochito22 because he is here longer then I am? Why can't u guys accept that he is wrong? Also, what does it matter about Yammi, it's about Yoruichi and Ken right? U started this thread urself.

And yes Razvan-Asakura, I know that Yoruichi can use shunpo, but does it matter when Yoruichi dies of one slash and that Ken can take like at least 50 hits from Yoruichi? It's just a matter of time before Yoruichi lays on the ground beneath Ken. But I don't want to argue anymore. U guys just believe what u want to believe, cuz I just can't convince u with facts and logic.

you have yet to prove anything with 'facts and logic' because logically, Yourchi knocked Yammy senseless(who has a strong heiro, his skin tougher then Kenpachi's)...soo why would it take more then that for Kenpachi?

Yes it does matter because if Kenpachi can't hit her....how would she die? Yourchi is smart enough to know that she can't take him on straight on but will use her speed to dodge and attack...Speed is everything in a fight....you can't win if u can't catch your prey....

Kingkon

03-21-2009, 12:37 PM

Do u have evidence, KingKon? I don't understand, why are u guys so blind? Don't u understand what logic is? Are u guys helping Kochito22 because he is here longer then I am? Why can't u guys accept that he is wrong? Also, what does it matter about Yammi, it's about Yoruichi and Ken right? U started this thread urself.

And yes Razvan-Asakura, I know that Yoruichi can use shunpo, but does it matter when Yoruichi dies of one slash and that Ken can take like at least 50 hits from Yoruichi? It's just a matter of time before Yoruichi lays on the ground beneath Ken. But I don't want to argue anymore. U guys just believe what u want to believe, cuz I just can't convince u with facts and logic.

God! I don't know if your just dense or what, do you even know what logic is ? Yammi survived a mine blast do you think he will die just because he fell out of a hole. Nobody else in their right mind thinks Yammi is dead only you Who got the notion out of nowhere!

Darkmaterials

03-21-2009, 12:49 PM

you have yet to prove anything with 'facts and logic' because logically, Yourchi knocked Yammy senseless(who has a strong heiro, his skin tougher then Kenpachi's)...soo why would it take more then that for Kenpachi?

Zaraki is tougher than Yammy, unless you want to argue that Yammy can take multiple hits from Nnoitra and stay on his feet.

Hierro gives the arrancar an advantage, it doesn't make them better at tanking attacks then anyone without hierro.
Trash arrancar can't tank blows that would hurt Yama/Aizen because they have hierro, can they?

Yes it does matter because if Kenpachi can't hit her....how would she die? Yourchi is smart enough to know that she can't take him on straight on but will use her speed to dodge and attack...Speed is everything in a fight....you can't win if u can't catch your prey....

Speed isn't everything, not straight line speed anyway.
Zaraki has a quick reaction time and he only needs one blow to take her down, Yourichi will need to get multiple hits on Zaraki to beat him.

Razvan_Asakura

03-21-2009, 12:54 PM

Speed isn't everything, not straight line speed anyway.
Zaraki has a quick reaction time and he only needs one blow to take her down, Yourichi will need to get multiple hits on Zaraki to beat him.

wow.. i did not know..an ex-captain of 2 divisions + with another 100 years of experience..could get one shotted by Zaraki. i just didn't.

please master Roshi, tell us some more of your bullshit teachings. :popcorn:

and from what ppl have been telling me, it seems Zaraki is made out of titanium...because it seems Yoruichi can't cut his head...with big ass special ops knives. oh, i see...assassins use wooden sticks. i was not aware of that :amazed:

and, by your imagination, it seems..that she needs to actually cut his head off just to take him down. -.- whaaaa? ... a half of it would very nicely do. this is not Terminator 2 for christ's sake.

samir12

03-21-2009, 01:17 PM

wow.. i did not know..an ex-captain of 2 divisions + with another 100 years of experience..could get one shotted by Zaraki. i just didn't.

please master Roshi, tell us some more of your bullshit teachings. :popcorn:

and from what ppl have been telling me, it seems Zaraki is made out of titanium...because it seems Yoruichi can't cut his head...with big ass special ops knives. oh, i see...assassins use wooden sticks. i was not aware of that :amazed:

and, by your imagination, it seems..that she needs to actually cut his head off just to take him down. -.- whaaaa? ... a half of it would very nicely do. this is not Terminator 2 for christ's sake.

Are you trying to say the Yourichi's knives are stronger than Nnoitra's zan? Please just answer this simple question.

kochito22

03-21-2009, 01:20 PM

The weapon's success depends on the user.

Razvan_Asakura

03-21-2009, 01:38 PM

Nnoitra didn't slashed his head...he barely scratched his neck..for drama purposes.

Yoruichi's stabs him in the neck with that sharp spot.

CaptainDean

03-21-2009, 01:53 PM

Kenpachi is definetly stronger but as we saw when he fought tousen strength isn't everything but yoruichi however still wouldnt match kenpachi's never say die attitude nor his hunger for fighting despite her miraculous speed thus i believe kenpachi would win but it would be a close battle

kochito22

03-21-2009, 02:05 PM

Why do you think that Kenpachi's definetly stronger?

AizenvsUrahara

03-21-2009, 07:24 PM

Yoruichi was barehandedly able to own Yami. Yes yes, barehandedly. It hurt her afterwards, but she still did it.i have to agree whit Razvan_Asakura yoruichi flashsteps in, stabs kenpachi thru the head, and leaves before you can say wtfpwn.once Shunko goes into play, he can do nothing before he is pummeled to death.

@captaindean but is`t speed power?The faster an object moves the harder it hits:amused:.

samir12

03-22-2009, 04:24 AM

Alright Yourichi pwned Yammi bare handed, but heck she didnt kill him or anything and Yammi didnt even release. Yourichi specialises in hand to hand combat which was why she was able to pwn him just like Kenpachi who specialises in sword fighting (in which is was granted the title Kenpachi, but can someone please correct if Kenpchi means best swordsmen or something like that?) Imagine what Kenpachi would be able to do to yammi.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 04:56 AM

Best swordman? oy, oy...

what manga have you been reading? the name kenpachi is given towards the most blood thirsty captain out there. his swordmanship has nothing to do with it. to be honest, he has 0 skills at sword style, cause he doesn't know any, even Yamamoto had to teach him that holding the sword with two hands will cause more damage.

samir12

03-22-2009, 05:03 AM

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 06:39 AM

Ok, I am gonna counter all ur arguements by using u guys' so called non logic.

Kochito22: How do u know if I think that Zaraki is god's gift to martial arts? U are just asuming this cuz that's how u feel. And as u can c, ur not always right just by going after ur feeling. I don't think Ken is god's gift to martial arts.
( Nocturne's Ichigo: I am not the one who is asuming things based on nothing, as u can c, Kochito22 is). Yes, Yoruichi is faster then a group of special ops members. But speed isn't everything as everyone who is staying behind Yoru assumes. U can defeat the ops members in mutiple ways, u don't need speed to do that, I am sure that even Rukia, Chad or Renji can defeat those guys with ease.

Nocturne's Ichigo: Yoru did indeed knocked out Yammi barehanded. However Ken knocked out Noitora in released mode with one slash. Also shinigami's can also have something what is almost identical to espada's hierro. Cuz u can create a shield with reiatsu, as long as u have enough reiatsu, u can have a strong shield and as we all know, Ken is the only captain who almost always surprises people with his amazing reiatsu. Even Noitora was a little bit suprised by his reiatsu. So yes, Ken can have an even stronger shield then Yammi.
And Ken isn't just a animal from National Geographic. He won't chase Yoru, he just have to wait until Yoru attacks and he can knock her out, his reflexes are great enough for that.

Kingkon: I have a question for u, do u know excactly how deep that hole is?

Razvan Asakura: I will repeat my answer just for u. Yoru had hit an unreleased Yammi on the ground, Ken slashed one time at a released Noitora and he was almost dead. Well, now u know that an ex-captain of 2 divisions + with another 100 years of experience could get one shotted by Zaraki :). Also, if the hierro of Yammi really is as strong as u people says, then Yoru will be dead for sure lol.
Do u people even know how much of a difference the power between each rank is? I am sure that a released Noitora can at least take out 3 unreleased Yammi's. And Yoru was having trouble with one, with help from Urahara, who is pretty strong.
Hey, u are also saying things based on nothing, like Kochito22. We haven't said anything about that Ken has titanium skin, if so Noitora could not pierce through Ken's skin. It's not like because of his skin what matters. It's his endurance. He can be cut and pierced, but it's like he doesn't even feel, or care about it. That is a huge plus for Ken, no other character is like that in Bleach.
Noitora didn't sliced Ken's head is not because he haven't tried, he just lacks the skill to do so.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 06:55 AM

Razvan Asakura: I will repeat my answer just for u. Yoru had hit an unreleased Yammi on the ground, Ken slashed one time at a released Noitora and he was almost dead. Do u people even know how much of a difference the power between each rank is? I am sure that a released Noitora can at least take out 3 unreleased Yammi's. And Yoru was having trouble with one, with help from Urahara, who is pretty strong.
Hey, u are also saying things based on nothing, like Kochito22. We haven't said anything about that Ken has titanium skin, if so Noitora could not pierce through Ken's skin. It's not like because of his skin what matters. It's his endurance. He can be cut and pierced, but it's like he doesn't even feel, or care about it. That is a huge plus for Ken, no other character is like that in Bleach.
Noitora didn't sliced Ken's head is not because he haven't tried, he just lacks the skill to do so.

First off, I'm honored. Second, I'm just talking on the fact that you guys sounded like his head can't be cut off, that's why I compared his head with titanium. And, third, I did not know you need MAD SKILLZ to cut someones head off.

Even by your logic, Yoruichi has more experience than Kenpachi, proof? she was captain of 2 divisions, she has been longer in Gotei 13, she has a lot of noble-secret weapons, she is faster than Byakuya, she can cut someone's head even with her hands if she goes into god flash mode. Zaraki can laugh all he wants, because Yoruichi will just slash him again and again and again and again and again, until he looses all his blood and dies. the end! he will never be able to catch her in flash mode, well I'm doubting even in shunpo normal mode.

You keep comparing Yoruichi vs. Yammy with Zaraki vs Nnoitra. Yoruichi's battle...what am I saying, that wasn't even a battle with a life or death situation, more like, she was pushing him away, she had no intent to kill him. Toying with the weaklings. By that logic of yours, I could very well say Hitsugaya beats Yamamoto, just because Hitsugaya has defeated more powerful opponents than the general commander. as far as we've seen in the anime.

ATTENTION: Every argument you & other fools have said around here, are that Zaraki will just need to slash Yoruichi once, and then it will be over.

Like, wtf...I did not know ex-captains can get one shotted by a mere zan, that's not even in shikai.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 07:20 AM

Ok, u can pick any weapon u like, except fireweapons, are u sure u can cut an eskrima master's head? So, yeh u know now that u need skills to cut someone's head. Also, if u can really cut someone's head, why do assasin's have to undergo some special martial arts training if u can cut someone's head wherever and whenever u like.

Experience is indeed a big deal, but it's not everything. Do u watch K1? Badr Hari smashed Peter Aerts to the ground, Badr Hari was 24 years old and Peter was 38 years old. Peter is a classic boxer, so he was boxing for longer then Hari.
I just said that speed isn't everything, did u read?

Someone said that the battle with Yammi is essential to compare, and now u are saying that u can't compare? Man o man, u guys can say everything u want. Also, with what shall we compare then? those fights are the most recent fights they have. Are u saying that we must compare fights when Yoru was 20 and Ken was 1 year old? Also, if she really was so fast and strong as u say, why did Yoru not kill him? She had nothing to lose, only to gain. If u got punched in the face, would u still be toying around with some ''weaklings''? U are really crazy, of course u can't say that Hitsu can defeat Yama. Did Hitsu fought against Ukitake and Shunsui? And also, Yama haven't even really fought against a villain yet. So, u are raelly wrong and please don't come with some horrible excuses, u really have lost.

ATTENTION Please read my post just 5 centimeters above urs.

Ur knowledge is just very limited, don't blame others and don't call others fools, u should call urself a fool.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 07:34 AM

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 07:37 AM

Well, i't doesn't sounds like it. So... Kochito22 what do u think the rest of my comment? Like the special ops members or whatever?

kochito22

03-22-2009, 07:53 AM

I thought it was ridiculous and didn't deserve a response.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 07:57 AM

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:02 AM

ATTENTION Please read my post just 5 centimeters above urs.

Ur knowledge is just very limited, don't blame others and don't call others fools, u should call urself a fool.

You're younger than me.
I've read and saw Bleach way more many times over and over than you.
I've been around here speculating years before you arrived.
And the poll says the contrary as well.

You loose, just like Zaraki. Yoruichi shunpo's towards him, cuts off his butt cheeks then cuts off his head and there's clearly no evidence you can provide me, saying the contrary. And NO, you don't need mad skillz to cut someones head off.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 08:03 AM

Really? U know what I think? U just can't respond, cuz u are beaten to the ground. What u just said, was just one of the many excuses u have used. U just keep running away. Hoping to find a way to counter my comments. Unfortunately, u have failed big time.

Your delusions make me giggle. You've been proven wrong countless times on almost everything. I've stopped trying to reason with you. You can continue raving if you want. There are a myriad reasons why Yoruichi could kill Zaraki.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:08 AM

Really? U know what I think? U just can't respond, cuz u are beaten to the ground. What u just said, was just one of the many excuses u have used. U just keep running away. Hoping to find a way to counter my comments. Unfortunately, u have failed big time.

You're actually the one failing the most. All your posts are how Yoruichi can't cut Zaraki's head, because she doesn't have the skills for it. [<WTF?]
Then you're comparing Yoruichi's shortly intervention vs Yammy with Nnoitra's life and death battle with Zaraki, which is completely fail, because you keep saying she should've beat someone stronger in order to prove your fanboyism that she's tougher.

She doesn't need to prove anything you noob. She hasn't once lost a match so far and yet Zaraki lost to shikai Ichigo. You can plee for plotkai here, but that's the pure truth, nothing can do about it, go cry in a corner.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:19 AM

wow.. i did not know..an ex-captain of 2 divisions + with another 100 years of experience..could get one shotted by Zaraki. i just didn't.

please master Roshi, tell us some more of your bullshit teachings. :popcorn:

You have scans that would suggest Yourichi can tank bankai level attacks without using her zan?

and from what ppl have been telling me, it seems Zaraki is made out of titanium...because it seems Yoruichi can't cut his head...with big ass special ops knives. oh, i see...assassins use wooden sticks. i was not aware of that :amazed:

Zaraki has stopped Nnoitra's blade with his bare hand and taken Tousens shikai attack head on without being visibly weakened.

Thinking that a couple of throwing knives, with the great feats of bouncing off Soi Fongs shikai, can't damage Zaraki must be delusional :suspicious:.
Although I suppose it's not unreasonable to assume that two throwing knives with no reiatsu behind them are more powerful than either Nnoitra's unreleased blade or Tousens shikai attack. [/sarcasm]

Oh wait, Yourichi will be able to use physical strength to do it.
Just think of all her great strength feats, like knocking Yammi (who's only feat of strength is punching through a wall) to the ground. That and, erm, I'v got nothing =(.

and, by your imagination, it seems..that she needs to actually cut his head off just to take him down. -.- whaaaa? ... a half of it would very nicely do. this is not Terminator 2 for christ's sake.

Except it was you who brought up the "Yourichi will cut off Zaraki's head" arguement...

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:21 AM

You have scans that would suggest Yourichi can tank bankai level attacks without using her zan?

Zaraki doesn't have bankai yet. neither does he have a shikai attack.
I stopped reading here, because it's clearly you have no knowledge of the anime Bleach.

NEXT PLEASE!

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:23 AM

Bankai level attacks =/= bankai attacks.

He has the offensive force of a captain using bankai.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:25 AM

Bankai level attacks =/= bankai attacks.

He has the offensive force of a captain using bankai.

Did anyone said that? How do you know EXACTLY what's the minimum extent of a bankai move?

fail

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 08:27 AM

You're younger than me.
I've read and saw Bleach way more many times over and over than you.
I've been around here speculating years before you arrived.
And the poll says the contrary as well.

You loose, just like Zaraki. Yoruichi shunpo's towards him, cuts of his butt cheeks then cuts off his head and there's clearly no evidence you can provide me, saying the contrary. And NO, you don't need mad skillz to cut someones head off.

Wow, damn, u are really low, u can't win against my comments, so u are using personal info. However, it's all good. I am willing to explain.
Yes I am younger then u and maybe u have seen Bleach way more times and u have been on the forums for ages and the poll can say so.
But, aren't u judging people too fast? Younger doesn't mean dumber, I don't need to watch it all over agian and again cuz I have a good memory unlike u. U have watched countless times but still, u fail to c the essential parts and think of the possibilities. Talking on a forum doesn't mean u are gaining important info. People are just speculating things. I have no evidence? I am sure I have more then u do. And yes the poll is saying the contrary, however people who have voted for Yoruichi have likely not thought of things that I have thought. The results of the poll aren't always right. Also, maybe the people that has seen my comments are regretting that they have voted for Yoru.

U keep saying the same stuff, don't u have other arguements? I have explained countles times that speed isn't everything and I have explained that u do need skills to cut off people's heads. U really don't read, do u? And if u do have an arguement to counter mine please do so, I would love to c that. Cuz u are now attacking me, instead the comments. U have let me c how weak u are. Those are the facts.

Your delusions make me giggle. You've been proven wrong countless times on almost everything. I've stopped trying to reason with you. You can continue raving if you want. There are a myriad reasons why Yoruichi could kill Zaraki.

I have been proven wrong countless times? U are really blind then, however I am willing to hear it. Unlike u, I am not using excuses. U say that there are myriad reasons why Yoru can defeat Ken, that's what u think, isn't it? I have countered all ur comments, that u have been given me. U know that u have been proven wrong, u just don't have the guts to admit it.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:29 AM

Did anyone said that? How do you know EXACTLY what's the minimum extent of a bankai move?

fail

What are you on about?

So all the gotei 13 captains could take on Nnoitra using shikai?

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:30 AM

U keep saying the same stuff, don't u have other arguements? I have explained countles times that speed isn't everything.

So, I'm the one not listening??? People have been telling you that speed is WEIGHT, since 10 pages ago. Captain lvl people in Bleach can cut buildings in half but she can't cut Zaraki's head at her shunpo speed?

good job.

What are you on about?

So all the gotei 13 captains could take on Nnoitra using shikai?

Yes. but that's another topic.

if they couldn't then...what youre saying is that Soul society is pretty much fucked in the karakura battle.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:35 AM

Yes. but that's another topic.

if they couldn't then...what youre saying is that Soul society is pretty much fucked in the karakura battle.

Lets get this straight, all the captains of the gotei 13 would be able to defeat Nnoitra in shikai?
Despite 2 of them having to use bankai against lower ranked espada, one of them having to use bankai against a trash arrancar to finish the fight quickly and one of them just being weaksauce in general (Toshiro)?

kochito22

03-22-2009, 08:36 AM

So, I'm the one not listening??? People have been telling you that speed is WEIGHT, since 10 pages ago. Captain lvl people in Bleach can cut buildings in half but she can't cut Zaraki's head at her shunpo speed?

good job.

Yes. but that's another topic.

if they couldn't then...what youre saying is that Soul society is pretty much fucked in the karakura battle.

I don't think all Captains could take on Nnoitra with just shikai. Hitsugaya's shikai wasn't much use against Yammy. I do think that Zaraki is a mid-tier captain.

Edit: Ah a post late. This thread looks as if it's going the same way as the Zaraki vs. Byakuya thread. That match up was more balanced though.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:37 AM

Lets get this straight, all the captains of the gotei 13 would be able to defeat Nnoitra in shikai?
Despite 2 of them having to use bankai against lower ranked espada, one of them having to use bankai against a trash arrancar to finish the fight quickly and one of them just being weaksauce in general (Toshiro)?

thats a different topic. all of them will boost up in their power.
read my other comment that i said about speed..is weight.
like always you pepz ignore the important reply..and...jump to gang-bang the silly joke one. pffff

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:44 AM

Care to explain how the captains will boost their power and why this means that they can defeat Nnoitra now?

Considering you don't know how fast shunpo is, using speed as an explanation for how powerful Yourichi's attack will be doesn't really work.

manje10

03-22-2009, 08:45 AM

Yoruichi would win.

I think she will be strong enough to fight the top espada (most likely Halibel)

I seriously doubt Kubo has kept her out of action this long so we can see her have a showdown with Yammy. She will eventually fight the main espada, enemies that Kenpachi would get owned by.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 08:45 AM

You're actually the one failing the most. All your posts are how Yoruichi can't cut Zaraki's head, because she doesn't have the skills for it. [<WTF?]
Then you're comparing Yoruichi's shortly intervention vs Yammy with Nnoitra's life and death battle with Zaraki, which is completely fail, because you keep saying she should've beat someone stronger in order to prove your fanboyism that she's tougher.

She doesn't need to prove anything you noob. She hasn't once lost a match so far and yet Zaraki lost to shikai Ichigo. You can plee for plotkai here, but that's the pure truth, nothing can do about it, go cry in a corner.

I am failing the most? U are really blind. Did u ever, ever, ever read my posts? If u didn't read my posts, why are u trying to prove me that I am wrong? Do u want to hear my reasons all over again and again? Ur brain is obviously not functioning as the way it should be functioning. Do u have a short memory problem?
She doesn't have to beat someone stronger. She just had to beat Yammi without a sweat. Cuz I am sure that Ken could have done that. U are saying that I am a noob? Ok, then I am, however u must remember that a noob have beaten u without attacking u as a person but attacking ur comments with facts and logics. U are saying that I am a fanboy? U have been proven wrong so many times and still, u say that Yoru can beat Ken. Who is the fanboy here?

Indeed, Ken has lost, however that was the past. For ur information, people can change and become stronger. If u are comparing that way. U can also say that when Ken was a baby he couldn't do anything and that Yoru can do a lot of things when she was 20 years old. Seriously, how do u think that this sort of things can ever prove me wrong?

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:45 AM

Care to explain how the captains will boost their power and why this means that they can defeat Nnoitra now?

Considering you don't know how fast shunpo is, using speed as an example for how powerful Yourichi's attack will be is a bit redundant isn't it?

WILL YOU STOP WITH THE GOTEI 13 THINGY? THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC..and i already said it was sort of a joke.

and all i know is yoruichi's shunpo > byakuya's shunpo > zaraki.
it can be considered a feat.

I am failing the most? U are really blind. Did u ever, ever, ever read my posts? If u didn't read my posts, why are u trying to prove me that I am wrong? Do u want to hear my reasons all over again and again? Ur brain is obviously not functioning as the way it should be functioning. Do u have a short memory problem?
She doesn't have to beat someone stronger. She just had to beat Yammi without a sweat. Cuz I am sure that Ken could have done that. U are saying that I am a noob? Ok, then I am, however u must remember that a noob have beaten u without attacking u as a person but attacking ur comments with facts and logics. U are saying that I am a fanboy? U have been proven wrong so many times and still, u say that Yoru can beat Ken. Who is the fanboy here?

Indeed, Ken has lost, however that was the past. For ur information, people can change and become stronger. If u are comparing that way. U can also say that when Ken was a baby he couldn't do anything and that Yoru can do a lot of things when she was 20 years old. Seriously, how do u think that this sort of things can ever prove me wrong?

you're repeating the same shit all over again. how many times do i have to tell you already? HOW CAN ZARAKI SLASH SOMEONE WHO HE CAN'T CATCH or barely even see?

kochito22

03-22-2009, 08:48 AM

I am failing the most? U are really blind. Did u ever, ever, ever read my posts? If u didn't read my posts, why are u trying to prove me that I am wrong? Do u want to hear my reasons all over again and again? Ur brain is obviously not functioning as the way it should be functioning. Do u have a short memory problem?
She doesn't have to beat someone stronger. She just had to beat Yammi without a sweat. Cuz I am sure that Ken could have done that. U are saying that I am a noob? Ok, then I am, however u must remember that a noob have beaten u without attacking u as a person but attacking ur comments with facts and logics. U are saying that I am a fanboy? U have been proven wrong so many times and still, u say that Yoru can beat Ken. Who is the fanboy here?

Indeed, Ken has lost, however that was the past. For ur information, people can change and become stronger. If u are comparing that way. U can also say that when Ken was a baby he couldn't do anything and that Yoru can do a lot of things when she was 20 years old. Seriously, how do u think that this sort of things can ever prove me wrong?

The bold section doesn't agree with the underlined section.

"U have been proven wrong so many times and still, u say that Yoru can beat Ken. Who is the fanboy here?"

That's just inaccurate.

He has supported his case repeatedly. You say that he skips over your posts. You seem to do that to his.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:51 AM

WILL YOU STOP WITH THE GOTEI 13 THINGY? THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC..and i already said it was sort of a joke.

and all i know is yoruichi's shunpo > byakuya's shunpo > zaraki.
it can be considered a feat.

you're repeating the same shit all over again. how many times do i have to tell you already? HOW CAN ZARAKI SLASH SOMEONE WHO HE CAN'T CATCH or barely even see?

Why can't Zaraki see Yourichi?

You've yet to prove that Zaraki can't see/catch Byakuya, so why should Yourichi being faster than Byakuya mean she speed blitzes Zaraki?

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:54 AM

Why can't Zaraki see Yourichi?

You've yet to prove that Zaraki can't see/catch Byakuya, so why should Yourichi being faster than Byakuya mean she speed blitzes Zaraki?

1) I said barely. [Can't you read?]
2) Go watch the first arc again, seriously. SHE IS CALLED THE GODDESS OF FLASH FOR A REASON.

.... oh my god. :guitar1:

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 08:56 AM

[QUOTE=Razvan_Asakura;1697431]So, I'm the one not listening??? People have been telling you that speed is WEIGHT, since 10 pages ago. Captain lvl people in Bleach can cut buildings in half but she can't cut Zaraki's head at her shunpo speed?

good job.

Ecxactly, u don't listen. I have said that Ken has enough reiatsu to create a shield as strong as an espada's. Also, Ken have amazing reflexes, he can at least defend himself. And as she comes he can slice her in half. Not only that, I have also told u that cutting people's heads, isn't an easy thing to do. Not to mention it's against Zaraki.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 08:57 AM

1) I said barely. [Can't you read?]
2) Go watch the first arc again, seriously. SHE IS CALLED THE GODDESS OF FLASH FOR A REASON.

.... oh my god. :guitar1:

You shouldn't use titles as a basis for arguement when you're arguing against Kenpachi lol....

Like I said, no proof that Byakuya speed blitzes Zaraki, so there's no proof that Yourichi does either.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 08:59 AM

Ecxactly, u don't listen. I have said that Ken has enough reiatsu to create a shield as strong as an espada's. Also, Ken have amazing reflexes, he can at least defend himself. And as she comes he can slice her in half. Not only that, I have also told u that cutting people's heads, isn't an easy thing to do. Not to mention it's against Zaraki.

....

oh i see. now he can create reiatsu shields all by little himself. i seeee..that's why no one has been able to beat the crap out of him. oh wait..ichigo did. with a SHIKAI..

yoruichi trained Ichigo right before his fight with zaraki.

yoruichi > ichigo > zaraki. fail again

You shouldn't use titles as a basis for arguement when you're arguing against Kenpachi lol....

Like I said, no proof that Byakuya speed blitzes Zaraki, so there's no proof that Yourichi does either.

what you're saying is that you voted by pure fanboyism..

ok. but i cannot respect that.
also, your user title..really is real.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:01 AM

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:02 AM

Amazing reflexes indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykaBVE85Eww

He was barely able to defend himself against Shikai Ichigo, who's not known for his speed. He's not even using shunpo.

_____________
that's cause he can't use shunpo. cause all he does know is hit things with his stick. poke-poke.

but i also did not know by Zeru's words, that Zaraki could react to Yoruichi's god of flash mode. damn, and KT thought the name would clear everything.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 09:05 AM

The bold section doesn't agree with the underlined section.

"U have been proven wrong so many times and still, u say that Yoru can beat Ken. Who is the fanboy here?"

That's just inaccurate.

He has supported his case repeatedly. You say that he skips over your posts. You seem to do that to his.

And I didn't prove him wrong countless times? I skipped his? I read his posts more careful then he does.

you're repeating the same shit all over again. how many times do i have to tell you already? HOW CAN ZARAKI SLASH SOMEONE WHO HE CAN'T CATCH or barely even see?

U should have known better. Ken doesn't have to rely on his eyes to win a battle. I am sure Ken is able to cut her once. U don't even have to look for her. She will come to Ken. Ken just have to swing his sword. Also, who says that Ken will only swing his sword only when she comes? He can always swing his sword. Regardless if he sees her or not. He can hit her. Also, if u say it this way, she can beat everyone she wants.

Feranor

03-22-2009, 09:05 AM

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 09:10 AM

what you're saying is that you voted by pure fanboyism..

ok. but i cannot respect that.
also, your user title..really is real.

No, what I'm saying is that you haven't provided evidence for Yourichi speedblitzing Zaraki, other than a title, which doesn't work because if we take titles into account Zaraki wins because of the Kenpachi title.

And FYI I voted for Yourichi on the assumption that her shikai and/or bankai powerboost would make her curbstomp Zaraki.
I'm arguing against swordless Yourichi doing the same thing now.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:18 AM

No, what I'm saying is that you haven't provided evidence for Yourichi speedblitzing Zaraki, other than a title, which doesn't work because if we take titles into account Zaraki wins because of the Kenpachi title.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/104/19/

That title has been proven wrong. Goddess of flash has not been.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:18 AM

At least try to understand how Zaraki fights before using such encounters as evidence.

Shikai Ichigo > Zaraki is nonsense. Otherwise Shikai Ichigo > released Noitorra would be true, since Zaraki managed to one shot that opponent.

Zaraki always scales down so that he can enjoy the fight. Both against Ichigo and Noitorra, he was able to one shot either one throughout the fight. He didn't, because that would've been boring.

oh, I see, so he lost of his own free will then. hmmm, I seeeeeee. sounds logic. also, he passed out, because it was cooler. yea..I'm starting to understand.

No, what I'm saying is that you haven't provided evidence for Yourichi speedblitzing Zaraki, other than a title, which doesn't work because if we take titles into account Zaraki wins because of the Kenpachi title.

If you want proof like "yoruichi can move 2000hm/s and zaraki 200m/s" then forget about it. if that happened to every battle match up until now, all would have been pointless from the start.

all i got is that zaraki has never showed any sign that he can shunpo, nor anyone mentioned it. and that yoruichi is called god of flash for a reason, that she was the fastest out there. she wtfpwned soi fon in a sec. after she went into that mode. and since soi fon is the captain of special ops...then. yeah, you get the point. yoruichi > soi fon > zaraki's non-shunpo speed.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 09:19 AM

....

oh i see. now he can create reiatsu shields all by little himself. i seeee..that's why no one has been able to beat the crap out of him. oh wait..ichigo did. with a SHIKAI..

yoruichi trained Ichigo right before his fight with zaraki.

yoruichi > ichigo > zaraki. fail again

what you're saying is that you voted by pure fanboyism..

ok. but i cannot respect that.
also, your user title..really is real.

God, u really don't read do u? I told ya that before that he can create shields and that when Icihigo beat him was the past. Damn, are u blind? Please go and read my posts a thousand times again. I said that I have thought of thing that other people may not have thought. If they did, they probably have voted for Ken. Where does ur arguement come from? Ur blind and u have a short memory problem? Damn! What do u mean my user titel is real? If u are wondering, my name isn't Zeru.

Amazing reflexes indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykaBVE85Eww

He was barely able to defend himself against Shikai Ichigo, who's not known for his speed. He's not even using shunpo.

I told ya, that was the PAST!!! It seems like I have proven myself, that u and Razvan don't read my posts. Do u seriously think that if Ken was as strong as shown on the video, he could have beaten Noitora? How dumb can u be?

_____________
that's cause he can't use shunpo. cause all he does know is hit things with his stick. poke-poke.

but i also did not know by Zeru's words, that Zaraki could react to Yoruichi's god of flash mode. damn, and KT thought the name would clear everything.

He can't use shunpo, but what the hell does it matter, if he is like someone who can't even die and has amazing strength?
For ur information, writers don't always give the right names. Do u know what espada means? It means sword, are espada's like Grimmjow sowrds? I don't freakin think so.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:20 AM

We haven't seen Zaraki train at all since Ichigo beat him.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:22 AM

God, u really don't read do u? I told ya that before that he can create shields and that when Icihigo beat him was the past. Damn, are u blind? Please go and read my posts a thousand times again. I said that I have thought of thing that other people may not have thought. If they did, they probably have voted for Ken. Where does ur arguement come from? Ur blind and u have a short memory problem? Damn! What do u mean my user titel is real? If u are wondering, my name isn't Zeru.

He can't use shunpo, but what the hell does it matter, if he is like someone who can't even die and has amazing strength?
For ur information, writers don't always give the right names. Do u know what espada means? It means sword, are espada's like Grimmjow sowrds? I don't freakin think so.

If you spent more time proving your point than actually insulting me, then you could've actually got somewhere.

And, THE TRUTH IS OUT PEOPLE, ZARAKI CAN'T DIE...

Feranor

03-22-2009, 09:25 AM

oh, I see, so he lost of his own free will then. hmmm, I seeeeeee. sounds logic. also, he passed out, because it was cooler. yea..I'm starting to understand.

He didn't lose. He may have lost consciousness for a while, but Ichigo would've bled to death if not for Yoruichi.

Also, their final clash was Ichigo + Zangetsu vs. Zaraki in a Reiatsu contest. Speed was completely irrelevant here.

If you want proof like "yoruichi can move 2000hm/s and zaraki 200m/s" then forget about it. if that happened to every battle match up until now, all would have been pointless from the start.

all i got is that zaraki has never showed any sign that he can shunpo, nor anyone mentioned it. and that yoruichi is called god of flash for a reason, that she was the fastest out there. she wtfpwned soi fon in a sec. after she went into that mode. and since soi fon is the captain of special ops...then. yeah, you get the point. yoruichi > soi fon > zaraki's non-shunpo speed.

So what? Zaraki didn't have problems dealing with the ultimate speed blitz, which was Tousen's Bankai, so even if Yoruichi is fast enough to be completely invisible it wouldn't prove that she could hit any vital points, or dodge his counterattacks.

Zaraki also takes stonewall-busting sword attacks on his bare chest without even taking a scratch. Which is why I don't think Yoruichi could do much to him without Shunko or Shikai/Bankai.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 09:27 AM

We haven't seen Zaraki train at all since Ichigo beat him.

Not seeing means nothing. We didn't c Yama fight a villain, does it mean he has never thought one in his entire life?

If you spent more time proving your point than actually insulting me, then you could've actually got somewhere.

And, THE TRUTH IS OUT PEOPLE, ZARAKI CAN'T DIE...

I did spent my time proving u wrong, but since u don't read, my effort is lost.

Once more, u really don't read. I said LIKE someone who can't die.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:28 AM

Not seeing means nothing. We didn't c Yama fight a villain, does it mean he has never thought one in his entire life?

Seeing is believing.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 09:30 AM

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/104/19/

That title has been proven wrong. Goddess of flash has not been.

I thought the title just meant the strongest swordsman :oh:.
Godess of flash still doesn't mean she speedblitzes Zaraki ne-ways though.

oh, I see, so he lost of his own free will then. hmmm, I seeeeeee. sounds logic. also, he passed out, because it was cooler. yea..I'm starting to understand.

Zaraki took damage because he enjoys more even fights, hence the bells and eyepatch.
When did he lose btw? I always considered it a draw.

If you want proof like "yoruichi can move 2000hm/s and zaraki 200m/s" then forget about it. if that happened to every battle match up until now, all would have been pointless from the start.

all i got is that zaraki has never showed any sign that he can shunpo, nor anyone mentioned it. and that yoruichi is called god of flash for a reason, that she was the fastest out there. she wtfpwned soi fon in a sec. after she went into that mode. and since soi fon is the captain of special ops...then. yeah, you get the point. yoruichi > soi fon > zaraki's non-shunpo speed.

I wasn't aware that being able to shunpo gave you a faster reaction time.
Yourichi can shunpo better than Zaraki, I'm not arguing that, but that doesn't mean he can't react to her.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:31 AM

So what? Zaraki didn't have problems dealing with the ultimate speed blitz, which was Tousen's Bankai, so even if Yoruichi is fast enough to be completely invisible it wouldn't prove that she could hit any vital points, or dodge his counterattacks.

Zaraki also takes stonewall-busting sword attacks on his bare chest without even taking a scratch. Which is why I don't think Yoruichi could do much to him without Shunko or Shikai/Bankai.

1) So Tousen can speedblitz now.... :oh:
When i saw the anime, i just saw tousen being surprised that zaraki actually had a 5 sense. wow like dont we all...and then zaraki went lucky and grabbed his bankai ring. then the bankai dispelled.

2) so, you're saying that yoruichi was a captain of 2 divs...is not strong enough to slash someones head open/off? cool. i think i'm the only one who thinks their swords are not made out of plastic.

if he can cut buildings in 2 and she can cut buildings in 2...ah nvm.

I thought the title just meant the strongest swordsman :oh:.
Godess of flash still doesn't mean she speedblitzes Zaraki ne-ways though

she pwned soi fon in a sec. with that move. already explained.
what do you want her to say that you will believe if not facts? do you actually think she'll turn her head towards the camera and go" hey you zaraki fanboy...i'm faster than him". pfff

I wasn't aware that being able to shunpo gave you a faster reaction time.
Yourichi can shunpo better than Zaraki, I'm not arguing that, but that doesn't mean he can't react to her.

you're saying it in a way, that makes zaraki shunpo. he does not know that. too dumb. yoruichi also knows kidou.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 09:34 AM

1) So Tousen can speedblitz now.... :oh:
When i saw the anime, i just saw tousen being surprised that zaraki actually had a 5 sense. wow like dont we all...and then zaraki went lucky and grabbed his bankai ring. then the bankai dispelled.

Zaraki was dodging point blank attacks with only his sense of touch, don't try and downplay it.
Tousen was perfectly capable of taking out other captains using his bankai back in TBTP.

if he can cut buildings in 2 and she can cut buildings in 2...ah nvm.

Zaraki can cut buildings in two, we've never seen Yourichi do it though...

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:37 AM

Zaraki was dodging point blank attacks with only his sense of touch, don't try and downplay it.
Tousen was perfectly capable of taking out other captains using his bankai back in TBTP.

Zaraki can cut buildings in two, we've never seen Yourichi do it though...

yea, by ambushing them. zaraki fought him head on. pfff come on, you can do better than that.

yoruichi cut soi fon's sword in cat form, WITH HER TEETH. :guitar1: mega-fail.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 09:39 AM

she pwned soi fon in a sec. with that move. already explained.
what do you want her to say that you will believe if not facts? do you actually think she'll turn her head towards the camera and go" hey you zaraki fanboy...i'm faster than him". pfff

Yourichi blocked Soi Fongs attack and Soi Fong gave up....

You need to be able to prove that Soi Fong has faster reactions that Zaraki for that to work anyway.

you're saying it in a way, that makes zaraki shunpo. he does not know that. too dumb. yoruichi also knows kidou.

I'm saying it in a way that makes Zaraki shunpo?

All I remember saying is that you haven't proved Zaraki can't react to Yourichi's attacks...

yea, by ambushing them. zaraki fought him head on. pfff come on, you can do better than that.

Erm, I don't see the difference when you have all sense except touch taken away.

yoruichi cut soi fon's sword in cat form, WITH HER TEETH. :guitar1: mega-fail.

Isn't this just in the opening?

Doesn't beat building busting anyway.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 09:43 AM

Seeing is believing.

Seeing is believing? We saw that Yoru got injured against a weakling who wasn't even released. We saw Urahara helping her. We haven't saw Yoruchi ''beat'' anyone who is stronger then Yammi. We saw that Ken got released Noitora on his knees with one slash. We saw that Ken got sliced and pierced so many times and he didn't care.

U BELIEVE AND SAW THAT KEN IS WEAKER THEN YORU???

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:44 AM

Yourichi blocked Soi Fongs attack and Soi Fong gave up....

You need to be able to prove that Soi Fong has faster reactions that Zaraki for that to work anyway.

I'm saying it in a way that makes Zaraki shunpo?

All I remember saying is that you haven't proved Zaraki can't react to Yourichi's attacks...

Erm, I don't see the difference when you have all sense except touch taken away.

Isn't this just in the opening?

Doesn't beat building busting anyway.

I see you're already bored of this thread and that you're just throwing around the "no real detailed proof, then no winner shit". if that's the case, then you can leave right now.

And as your user title says" anything goes " ... i just used the opening. she in cat form bitting a sword like butter..i say it;s quite impressive. if she could do that in an animal form and with her teeth. but nonetheless, the poll remains unchanged, the fact that Yoruichi has shunpo and could outrun kenpachi anyday remains as well..and the fact that she's proven strong enough to cut his head off as well. or at least taunt him with kidou moves by a distant area, while she runs away from him.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:47 AM

Seeing is believing? We saw that Yoru got injured against a weakling who wasn't even released. We saw Urahara helping her. We haven't saw Yoruchi ''beat'' anyone who is stronger then Yammi. We saw that Ken got released Noitora on his knees with one slash. We saw that Ken got sliced and pierced so many times and he didn't care.

U BELIEVE AND SAW THAT KEN IS WEAKER THEN YORU???

Yes because we also saw a 15 year old child beat Zaraki.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 09:51 AM

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:51 AM

I've never said that. Who is this "U people" you speak of?

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 09:52 AM

Yes because we also saw a 15 year old child beat Zaraki.

Yeh, ur right, but is Ichigo Yoru? Noooo, so u didn't c it. If u do follow ur own ''logic'' then Yoru can never beat Ken.

By, u people, I mean people that says that Yoru's shunpo is everything and that Ken can't catch someone like that and he will be dead in a second.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:54 AM

Huh?

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 09:54 AM

I see you're already bored of this thread and that you're just throwing around the "no real detailed proof, then no winner shit". if that's the case, then you can leave right now.

Nope, I'm saying "no proof, then your claim doesn't work".

You keep bringing up chain logic that doesn't relate back to Zaraki:
"Yourichi > Byakuya, so Yourichi speedblitzes Zaraki"
"Yourichi > Soi Fong, so Yourichi speedbliztes Zaraki".

I can do the same: Zaraki is better than Nnoitra, so he's also better than Yourichi. I have no proof that Nnoitra is better than Yourichi, but lets not nitpick.

And as your user title says" anything goes " ... i just used the opening. she in cat form bitting a sword like butter..i say it;s quite impressive. if she could do that in an animal form and with her teeth.

Anime openings aren't cannon, so she never did that.

but nonetheless, the poll remains unchanged,

The poll is irrelevant.

the fact that Yoruichi has shunpo and could outrun kenpachi anyday remains as well..

She can outrun him (or out shunpo), that doesn't mean she can speedblitz him though. Do you think every shunpo user in Bleach can take Zaraki?

and the fact that she's proven strong enough to cut his head off as well.

What strength feats does she have that would suggest she can cut off Zaraki's head with a couple of throwing knives?

or at least taunt him with kidou moves by a distant area, while she runs away from him

I wasn't aware that she uses kidou as the main part of her fighting style.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 09:56 AM

U people keep saying that speed is erverything in a fight. If so, why is Zommari not placed as the first espada? Who is known for his speed to be the fastest of all espadas? I am not asking much, let's say it doesn't care to be placed as the first espada, cuz he is dumb or his other techniques sucks. Still, he can at least be placed as the 5th espada. Right? But noooo, Noitora, who wasn't really fast, but only strong was placed as the 5th espada.

What do u guys have to say now?

Go read Zaraki's detailed notebook released by KT. srly..it's on the main page of this site. the job prescription for dumbest of em all is given to him. so, yoruichi is obviously smarter than him.

besides, zaraki is only good at having a big stamina and having a lot of strength. also everyone knows that's not how someone wins a battle.

brains and speed take it anyday.

I wasn't aware that she uses kidou as the main part of her fighting style.

who the fuck said it was her main part? i only said she could use that as well. after all she used to be captain of the special ops. they need to know kidou as well. the only div. that doesn't have it/use it..is the 11th..cause it's the dumbest of all.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 09:58 AM

besides, zaraki is only good at having a big stamina and having a lot of strength. also everyone knows that's not how someone wins a battle.

Unless he's fighting someone who only has those attributes.

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 10:01 AM

Huh?

Didn't u understand what I just said?

What I meant was, that Yoru and Ichigo aren't the same perosn. U say that seeing is believing. However u have never seen Yoru beat Zaraki.

Rasvan:

I told ya, I don't ask much, if speed really is such a big deal, why wouldn't he be placed as the 5th? I am really tired of repeating myself. Please, please, please read. I have given so many reasons. But why don't u read? I am typing because I want u to read. Not for tha fun.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 10:03 AM

who the fuck said it was her main part? i only said she could use that as well. after all she used to be captain of the special ops. they need to know kidou as well. the only div. that doesn't have it/use it..is the 11th..cause it's the dumbest of all.

The way you said it suggest to me that she would only use kidou to take him down whilst she ran out of range of his attacks.

My bad if I misenterpreted you.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 10:04 AM

Rasvan:

I told ya, I don't ask much, if speed really is such a big deal, why wouldn't he be placed as the 5th? I am really tired of repeating myself. Please, please, please read. I have given so many reasons. But why don't u read? I am typing because I want u to read. Not for tha fun.

I can't answer you because i can't understand half of the time what you're saying. like ... what does that bold area say exactly? the 5th what?

oy...the number of the captains are randomly put. or did you mistake bleach with naruto..?

kochito22

03-22-2009, 10:04 AM

Didn't u understand what I just said?

What I meant was, that Yoru and Ichigo aren't the same perosn. U say that seeing is believing. However u have never seen Yoru beat Zaraki.

Obviously Yoruichi is not Ichigo. That was a waste of fossil fuels.

I said that seeing is believing in response to your fanfiction.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 10:05 AM

I can't answer you because i can't understand half of the time what you're saying. like ... what does that bold area say exactly? the 5th what?

oy...the number of the captains are randomly put. or did you mistake bleach with naruto..?

I presume he means Nnoitra.

Razvan_Asakura

03-22-2009, 10:06 AM

I presume he means Nnoitra.

It still makes no sense.

kochito22

03-22-2009, 10:06 AM

This isn't the first time he's used pronouns and the subject is unclear.

Darkmaterials

03-22-2009, 10:10 AM

The basic point is: "if speed is everything, why is Nnoitra ranked 5th out of the 10 espada?".

Zeru15

03-22-2009, 10:10 AM

Go read Zaraki's detailed notebook released by KT. srly..it's on the main page of this site. the job prescription for dumbest of em all is given to him. so, yoruichi is obviously smarter than him.

besides, zaraki is only good at having a big stamina and having a lot of strength. also everyone knows that's not how someone wins a battle.

brains and speed take it anyday.

who the fuck said it was her main part? i only said she could use that as well. after all she used to be captain of the special ops. they need to know kidou as well. the only div. that doesn't have it/use it..is the 11th..cause it's the dumbest of all.

What are u trying to say? Anyway, u are completely wrong. U sure that because the 11th division is dumb they don't have to use kidou? If they are bad, then they must use kidou.
Let me ask u a question. If people are poor and can't do anything. U think the goverment will just let them die? NOOOOO. They support them, by giving money and giving care. People who are rich have a higher wage tax then the ones who are poor. It's the same for the 11th division. They are considered to be the strongest division in SS. They even said it in the anime and manga. Please don't use such stupid points to prove that u are right.