Shikai Matsumoto vs shikai Renji

[eneru92]

Who do you think that would win ?

Matsumoto showed to be very proficent with zanjutsu .
Her shikai allow her to defend and attack almost simultanely and is a long range weapon , very useful for fighting group of enemies .
She showed a speed at last paragonable to the other VC , tough she is able to almost keep up with Hitsugaya's speed .
Last , she showed to have at good knowledge of the kido , being capable of understanding spells at sight .

Renji showed to be a very skilled melee fighter .
His shikai allow him to mix close and long range attack , but leave him undercover in many occasion.
His speed is similar to captain level fighter , but he cannot mantain it for long time .
He is totally negate with kido , blowing up every spell he tries to use .

I'm going with Matsu

[Lune]

I'm surprised this one hasn't been done before but from a search it does indeed look like it hasn't. (Or more likely went in the forum pruning).

This is actually quite a difficult one, but Matsumoto's kido skills may just swing it for her.

[Kingkon]

Renji wins this I think, since Matsumoto has to keep her sword sealed if she wants to defend against a zanpakto like Renji's.

[kochito22]

She doesn't need to defend if her released sword kills him before he touches her.

[Kingkon]

She doesn't need to defend if her released sword kills him before he touches her.

yeah you really think thats gonna happen? eh no Renji's not that slow!

[BraikingBoss]

he can use the sword like this http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-275-page-12.html that sends the ash away like those ceros did then he just cuts her and the match is over

[Galvatron]

Renji has bankai, big boobs doesn't. I'd say that says great deal about how far along they each other.


EDIT: I missed the shikai part.... . I would still say Renji even in Shikai form. The fact that he's able to obtain bankai says that he's on a higher level than she is, even if it doesn't use it.

Renji.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

I think Matsumoto will win based on speed and kido....Renji's brute force will only help him if he can outsmart her...which he can't

[justin43]

Best analysis. Renji lies too much on brute strength and not enough on battle intelligence to win this matchup.

[Spectre]

he can use the sword like this http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-275-page-12.html that sends the ash away like those ceros did then he just cuts her and the match is over

Now this here is a real proof!! When Renji is doing this, Ash Cat cant even get close!! Now that that's settled, all that's left for Renji to do is avoid her Kidou!! And that's that!!

[eneru92]

Renji wins this I think, since Matsumoto has to keep her sword sealed if she wants to defend against a zanpakto like Renji's.

Matsu doesn't need to keep her sword in selaed form to defend herself from Renji's attack .
Haineko's ashes can be used also like a shield hard enough to easily block and deflect a cero from Apache , so I doubt she wouldn't be able to block zabimaru swings .

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

Now this here is a real proof!! When Renji is doing this, Ash Cat cant even get close!! Now that that's settled, all that's left for Renji to do is avoid her Kidou!! And that's that!!

Renji isn't fast..i doubt he could out move her....soo avoiding a kidou is nearly impossible for him

[BraikingBoss]

and what kido are you talking about? she has no kidou feats in the manga, in that fight against fracciones she only used ash

[eneru92]

and what kido are you talking about? she has no kidou feats in the manga, in that fight against fracciones she only used ash

she is one of the most experienced VC and has a enough knowledge of kido to identify spells upon sight .

So she is probably able to cast kido on par with the other VC

[BraikingBoss]

she can identify spells thats amazing!!! without feats that means nothing...

[Kingkon]

she is one of the most experienced VC and has a enough knowledge of kido to identify spells upon sight .

So she is probably able to cast kido on par with the other VC

She can identify spells so what when did anybody say kido spells are that hard to identify especially basic ones. And when did she become one of the most experienced vc?

[Kingkon]

Matsu doesn't need to keep her sword in selaed form to defend herself from Renji's attack .
Haineko's ashes can be used also like a shield hard enough to easily block and deflect a cero from Apache , so I doubt she wouldn't be able to block zabimaru swings .

If that's true then you might have a point but the problem is she never did! Actually the opposite happened those arrancar used cero to blast away her henieko and she needed to call back her zan to defend against their attack.

[BraikingBoss]

im pretty sure that with the move I posted he can blow away haineko and thats all he needs she is not a kidou master

[eneru92]

If that's true then you might have a point but the problem is she never did! Actually the opposite happened those arrancar used cero to blast away her henieko and she needed to call back her zan to defend against their attack.

There
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/334/12/
It wasn't a cero , but it still prove my statment .

@Braikingboss : I never said she is a master of kido . I said that she could be a good kido user , just liker all other VC

[Kingkon]

There
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/334/12/
It wasn't a cero , but it still prove my statment .

@Braikingboss : I never said she is a master of kido . I said that she could be a good kido user , just liker all other VC

What the hell? how does this prove your point it deflected her bracelet do you think thats as powerful as Renji's shikai?... let me answer that NO! Fact is her shikai got blown away by cero, and she had to call back her zanpakto to block a head on attack.

[fourwalls]

I think Matsumoto gets this. Her shikai is really powerful... It actually reminds me of Gaara, only that it can cut.

[TW501]

This is a bit of a tricky match-up. Matsumoto has a much more well-rounded skill set, whereas Renji is more reliant on his zanpakuto. If it's in close combat, Renji would probably win, though if Matsumoto were able to keep enough distance between them to use her zanpakuto ability along with Kido, she could probably manage to win. It really depends on the circumstances and the setting of the fight.

[Captainarmstead]

This seems clearly one sided to Renji. I am not ragging on Matsimoto, but Renji has Bankai level abilities (I know the thread is shikai vs shikai, but my point is if he CAN use bankai he is more proficient in all forms of combat... supposedly). And Growl seems whack as hell. A cloud of fucking dust? Really? Zabimaru with its spinning would easily disrupt that as the manga link earlier showed. Renji in a landslide.

[kochito22]

but Renji has Bankai level abilities (I know the thread is shikai vs shikai, but my point is if he CAN use bankai he is more proficient in all forms of combat... supposedly)


No. Ichigo has bankai and has no knowledge of kidou.

[Morgoth]

Matsumoto, because her attack is spatial (area attack) while Renji's has limited reach.

[Anomandaris]

No. Ichigo has bankai and has no knowledge of kidou.
Ichigo doesn't make his point void though. Ichigo is an exception to most 'rules' in the Bleach verse and cannot really be used as an accurate measure for anything. And he didn't go through the Academy, and had nothing resembling normal training in any area other than swordsmanship (and that was very briefly, with Urahara) so of course he doesn't know kidou. We know Renji can use kidou, it just isn't his forte.

I do think seeing as Renji can achieve shikai without voicing anything that clearly he is one step ahead as far as his zanpakutou goes.

I am of the opinion that Matsumoto is not exactly amazing with kidou, though she is clearly better than Renji (which is not hard) but IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong, please) has not demonstrated anything serious enough to convincingly take Renji down with. Her shikai is rather useful, at manipulating the battlefield (if there's anything cut-able around...) and she is probably more versatile but Renji is far more able to sustain damage, and seems to me to be better at zanjutsu. So I am tentatively backing Renji here, however Matsumoto wouldn't hesitate to remove some of her clothing in order to beat him, and that is just about guaranteed to work on Renji in my opinion.

[skycrapper]

Matsumoto . . . assuming Haineko doesn't have distance restrictions, she can release it and control it from far away, slashing poor, hapless Renji.

As for the Zabimaru's fantastic stretching ability, Matsumoto will easily evade the attack using Shunpo.

Even if Haineko DOES have distance restrictions, she can easily approach Renji to a point blank range, release it, and back away in an instant while controlling it to slash Renji to bits.


And Renji doesn't have Shunpo, as far as I know. If he DOES have shunpo, he'd suck . . . :D

Haha!

[jayshow]

Matsumoto . . . assuming Haineko doesn't have distance restrictions, she can release it and control it from far away, slashing poor, hapless Renji.

As for the Zabimaru's fantastic stretching ability, Matsumoto will easily evade the attack using Shunpo.

Even if Haineko DOES have distance restrictions, she can easily approach Renji to a point blank range, release it, and back away in an instant while controlling it to slash Renji to bits.


And Renji doesn't have Shunpo, as far as I know. If he DOES have shunpo, he'd suck . . . :D

Haha!

Riiiiiiiight.

Renji barely wins. One slash connected with Matsumoto and it's over. Matsumoto does not have great speed or anything. Renji's reiatsu should be higher by default since he has bankai and could potentially blow the ashes away.

[kochito22]

Riiiiiiiight.

Renji barely wins. One slash connected with Matsumoto and it's over. Matsumoto does not have great speed or anything. Renji's reiatsu should be higher by default since he has bankai and could potentially blow the ashes away.

Ikkaku has bankai but the arrancar he fought wasn't impressed with his reiatsu.

[eneru92]

Riiiiiiiight.

Renji barely wins. One slash connected with Matsumoto and it's over. Matsumoto does not have great speed or anything. Renji's reiatsu should be higher by default since he has bankai and could potentially blow the ashes away.

Renji doesn't show any impressive speed feat neither .

[IchiGin]

Lady With boobs wins this. Ash that cuts anything... How are you gonna run from that!!

[kaname95]

It depends on if Matsumoto's shikai can stop or block renji's shikai.Also Renji is tougher than her but then again Matsumoto is better at kido.Honestly, i can't decide.

Ps Matsumoto's shikai actually cuts the person?,then howcome Kira did not have any cuts on him after Matsumoto beat him.Nakim did not have any cuts on him either, although his mask had many cracks.

[Rosh]

I think Renji would win because achieving bankai makes you 5 times stronger than you already are, Rangiku has yet to acheive bankai so I think based on that she would lose.

[eneru92]

I think Renji would win because achieving bankai makes you 5 times stronger than you already are, Rangiku has yet to acheive bankai so I think based on that she would lose.

You are 5 time stronger actually using bankai , not just obtaining it :weird:

[BraikingBoss]

Lady With boobs wins this. Ash that cuts anything... How are you gonna run from that!!

to cut renji she needs to put ash on renjis body and she needs to move the hilt so its dificult to use because he can use the sword to blow the ash away...