English pronounciation quirks (accents, dialects, etc.).

[Xel_MK]

I looked around but haven't found any such topic here (correct me / close this if I'm wrong). So I wanted to discuss any interesting / amusing things concerning English as a spoken language.

To start how about:
TH-fronting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting)

Good? Neutral? Bad? Lame? Pathetic?

Curable at age 20?

Discuss!

[Kyo]

I'm not judging, but just stating my opinion - I find cockney extremely ugly. Why can't the English teach their children how to speak proper English? :weird:

Have you ever heard the Indian accent? Priceless!

[Feranor]

I find the cliché German accent amusing, it sounds kind of badass in English. :odd: (unless they completely fail at all pronounciation, then it just sounds ridiculous)

I don't have an accent, though.

[TW501]

I don't really have much of an accent, as the midwest has a very generic, accentless form of english. In the upper peninsula though, there is a dialect known as the 'yooper dialect' that has an accent similar to canadian and scandinavian accents. I've spent most of the last six months in the UP, and whenever I go home to SW Michigan, people comment that I talk a bit different. I guess the accent rubs off a bit on you. I personally don't think I have much of an accent, though I probably picked it up without even noticing it.

[Xel_MK]

But what do you guys think about people who say words containing the "th" sound (voiceless or voiced) with "f", "v" and "d" e.g. thing as fing, this as dis or as vis etc. etc.
If these examples above don't present what I mean then, like Kyoketsuki mentioned- think of people speaking in cockney (they are also known to "th-front").
What I mean is how would you react to such a person on the street? As a mentall challenged/speech-impeded person? A foreigner? Or perhaps as just a guy with an accent?

The reason why I'm asking this, is because (as it suddenly turned out a few days ago, to my utter shock) I am suffering from "th-fronting". In other words (according to my phonetics professor) I have a pretty much solid, close-to-native level of fluency in general BUT I do not pronounce "th" properly. A fact that has eluded most of my previous teachers, and myself, for years- mostly because "th" doesn't exist in most languages and for speakers of such languages the difference between "thing" and "fing" would be unrecognizable, almost subtle- I personally have NEVER noticed it and though I know how to pronounce "th" correctly I've never done so in speech, because I simply didn't see the difference =O. It might be hard to understand for native-speakers because for you guys it's pretty much obvious - for most others (poles included) it takes time and practice to even notice the difference. It took me hours of constant listening to finally grasp it- amusingly the turning point was a scene in Prison break episode 6 or 7 in Season 2 when one of the characters is at a gas station and is asked to repeat the number of the station his car's at- saying it loud and clear- "THREE". Quite the eye-opener =O Ever since then I've been torturing myself to get it right every time. I know I'll make it a habit eventually, but damn it ain't easy after so many years of "fings dat sound like dis, even dough it's (now) widout a doubt foroughly wrong"

In terms of accent, most people claim mine is close to california english in casual conversations (duh? go figure) . Although, obviously it's not exactly it. Even excluding all the crappy grammatic/idiomatic/phrasal/etc. mistakes (recognizable even in written form in my posts) I still mix it with British, which is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that over my 14 year long period of studying english I've been taught british almost uniformly, hence unless it's obvious (due to GP rules) or I pick it up along the way (mostly from movies, TV shows, games etc.) - I'll pronounce the odd word with a British RP accent =/

[TW501]

I've never really encountered that particular form of english, so I guess I don't really have much of an opinion on it.

[greg770]

Well, I've got horrible Russian accent (I am Ukranian but it's my native language). However I know/hear and I can pronounce "thing" and "fing" properly. I also have issues with understanding diffrent British accents (Especially Posh). Most of the American accents are no prob for me.

Imo it's good to have your own accent that will make you a bit more original and rare.:push:

[Kyo]

But what do you guys think about people who say words containing the "th" sound (voiceless or voiced) with "f", "v" and "d" e.g. thing as fing, this as dis or as vis etc. etc.
If these examples above don't present what I mean then, like Kyoketsuki mentioned- think of people speaking in cockney (they are also known to "th-front").
What I mean is how would you react to such a person on the street? As a mentall challenged/speech-impeded person? A foreigner? Or perhaps as just a guy with an accent?

The reason why I'm asking this, is because (as it suddenly turned out a few days ago, to my utter shock) I am suffering from "th-fronting". In other words (according to my phonetics professor) I have a pretty much solid, close-to-native level of fluency in general BUT I do not pronounce "th" properly. A fact that has eluded most of my previous teachers, and myself, for years- mostly because "th" doesn't exist in most languages and for speakers of such languages the difference between "thing" and "fing" would be unrecognizable, almost subtle- I personally have NEVER noticed it and though I know how to pronounce "th" correctly I've never done so in speech, because I simply didn't see the difference =O. It might be hard to understand for native-speakers because for you guys it's pretty much obvious - for most others (poles included) it takes time and practice to even notice the difference. It took me hours of constant listening to finally grasp it- amusingly the turning point was a scene in Prison break episode 6 or 7 in Season 2 when one of the characters is at a gas station and is asked to repeat the number of the station his car's at- saying it loud and clear- "THREE". Quite the eye-opener =O Ever since then I've been torturing myself to get it right every time. I know I'll make it a habit eventually, but damn it ain't easy after so many years of "fings dat sound like dis, even dough it's (now) widout a doubt foroughly wrong"

In terms of accent, most people claim mine is close to california english in casual conversations (duh? go figure) . Although, obviously it's not exactly it. Even excluding all the crappy grammatic/idiomatic/phrasal/etc. mistakes (recognizable even in written form in my posts) I still mix it with British, which is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that over my 14 year long period of studying english I've been taught british almost uniformly, hence unless it's obvious (due to GP rules) or I pick it up along the way (mostly from movies, TV shows, games etc.) - I'll pronounce the odd word with a British RP accent =/



I know exactly what you're talking about. I come from Mauritius, and we speak both french and english. But our french tends to "taint" our english. The "th-f" mistake is very common there. You're basically versed in a kind of "casual" english, and you're trying to grasp a higher level (to impress chicks?:tongue:). Whatever your motivation is, I think it's commendable that you're trying to do it. Most people, the vast majority don't even bother.

You could get some clues on pronunciation in (I know it's funny) Family Guy. Seriously, the way Stewie speaks is a great model, I myself learned quite a lot lol. I'd also recommend you to check out Richard Dawkin's videos on Youtube. Although you may not agree with the content of his speech, his command over english is nearly flawless, a joy to behold.

[Xel_MK]

Imo it's good to have your own accent that will make you a bit more original and rare.:push:

No. =P

I know exactly what you're talking about. I come from Mauritius, and we speak both french and english. But our french tends to "taint" our english. The "th-f" mistake is very common there. You're basically versed in a kind of "casual" english, and you're trying to grasp a higher level (to impress chicks?:tongue:).

Nah, not exactly- I'm doing it to kill every last vestige of polishness in me. Anything that connects me to poland (yes, that includes a faulty pronounciation) is a liability and must be removed so that I can blend in abroad as best as I can.
Nevertheless- never enough chicks xD

Whatever your motivation is, I think it's commendable that you're trying to do it.

Thanks, I try. =P

Most people, the vast majority don't even bother.

Exactly, and I don't want to be a part of that particular majority.

You could get some clues on pronunciation in (I know it's funny) Family Guy. Seriously, the way Stewie speaks is a great model, I myself learned quite a lot lol. I'd also recommend you to check out Richard Dawkin's videos on Youtube. Although you may not agree with the content of his speech, his command over english is nearly flawless, a joy to behold.

Thanks a lot! I'll be sure to check it out, anything that can speed up the process is appreciated. ^^ (and yes, I agree- Stewie owns xD)

[Paulio]

The greatest thing about England is you can travel 30 miles and encounter an area with a completely different accent and dialect to your own.

My own accent is a Yorkshire one. I try to embrace it as much as possible even if it differs from "proper English".


:guitar:

[kochito22]

New York City is weird. My cousin has a knack for telling which borough someone is from by their dialect.

[Kyo]

IMHO, having an accent is nothing to be proud of. Language is supposed to be used (spoken & written) in a certain way. It's the product of hundreds of years of evolution. Notable scholars have spent their lives concocting what would be recognised as a unanimously acceptable way to use language. Now, if everyone of us comes and interprets/uses/twist language in our own way, what would be the end product? Chaos. I don't agree that having an accent is a good thing. Language is a UNIFORM thing. Whats the use of having a single and accepted pronunciation/spelling for a word if every jolly-two-bits can come and twist it for his/her use?

[arthur11]

^Because it makes the world more interesting. Anyway language isnt a uniform, its a form of communication, like smoke signals, it doesnt have to be perfect to convey a message.

So what if some scholars studied and cheorographed it to a way that suited them, we have no obligation to follow it through, in another dimension saying 'w' like 'ew' could be perfectly sensible and exceptable. To my knowledge the oxford english dictionary adds around 2000 new words each year, colloquial words and slang included, its constantly evolving as does its use in different areas..so..you know...bush do liki fece.

[Kyo]

^Because it makes the world more interesting. Anyway language isnt a uniform, its a form of communication, like smoke signals, it doesnt have to be perfect to convey a message.

So what if some scholars studied and cheorographed it to a way that suited them, we have no obligation to follow it through, in another dimension saying 'w' like 'ew' could be perfectly sensible and exceptable. To my knowledge the oxford english dictionary adds around 2000 new words each year, colloquial words and slang included, its constantly evolving as does its use in different areas..so..you know...bush do liki fece.


I don't know if you have ever come across someone who speaks to you in english(I'm assuming that you use english primarily) and not understanding a single word. This is what I was talking about. I know we have no obligation of following it. I was just stating my displeasure for such things. You like some things, I don't. I'm a purist when it comes to language. Yes, language is in a permanent state of evolution. Evolution does not mean interpretation. Interpretation of such, and usage in a way that ends up twisting the whole thing upside down and having little/no meaning, resembling gloats and grunts.


bush do liki fece

This is pure LOL! Seriously! But my mothertongue isn't accountable for such a debate here, because it's an informal language. There is no script as such, no regulations whatsoever. So I'll just ignore this part.:lol:

[arthur11]

:P no offence intended btw you I just get few chances to use mauritian insults. Where abouts do you live on the island btw, Rose Hill, Port Louis, Midlands?

The thing is, i understand what you mean, lets say i meet a strongly accented irishman or Jamaican and for an hour it will be hard for me to understand what hes saying in english due to the different sound levels,pace and slang. But infact its perfectly spoken language, and most of the words are correct it just depends on what your used to and you just have to wait for your ear to tune in really.

What personally i find annoying in laguage use is the scope of language people use for example a common annoyance for me would be (partially because im in the habit of this) is the overuse of the word 'like.'

'I like did this and then like did that like.'

[fractal]

like, totally.

i will teach you the proper use of the word "y'all," then you will truly speak proper english. :odd:

[DK]

I (along with most of the country, except Dublin) use "ye" in the same way you use "y'all"
The more you know :)

Speaking of accents I love the Jimmy Carr quote:
"Just so you all know I don't have an English accent, this is what the language sounds like when spoken properly"

[Kyo]

:P no offence intended btw you I just get few chances to use mauritian insults. Where abouts do you live on the island btw, Rose Hill, Port Louis, Midlands?

No sweat ;)
No, I'm from Curepipe. Been there for vacations?

The thing is, i understand what you mean, lets say i meet a strongly accented irishman or Jamaican and for an hour it will be hard for me to understand what hes saying in english due to the different sound levels,pace and slang. But infact its perfectly spoken language, and most of the words are correct it just depends on what your used to and you just have to wait for your ear to tune in really.

I've been studying in India for the past 3 years, and I still haven't got a proper grasp on their accent. That's the problem I was talking about. You know, when a PhD-holding guy comes to lecture you and pronounce "young" as "yeng," something's not right. Hope you see my point. I'll give you some more examples of what the Indian accent sounds like : "three" is pronounced at "tree," with much rolling of the tongue on the "r." "What" becomes "vatt." And the most annoying thing about it is that they correct learned British and American lecturers about their "poor english." Meh. Hope you're seeing my point.

[arthur11]

Aah Curepipe,i got lost there alot, yeh my bestfriend got deported back before summer and i was with him for 5 months there with is family in Trioli, Rose Hill and Moka.

No i understand your point, if your going to learn the language and teach in it, you should learn the correct phonetics of it otherwise your just being lazy. Its something you grasp by surrounding yourself with english media or speakers.

[Belial]

ya'll ain't no nuthin' 'bout dem dere axents ya hear?

@ those who say they have no accent, just about everyone thinks they have a neutral accent until told otherwise. Go out of your region and all the sudden talking normally draws heads

[Cataclysm]

This is similar to my problem (well, not problem, but difference). I've lived in Australia for 4 years now and I was born in England and raised there until I was 14. Even when I was there, my accent wasn't the local area's accent (Midlands, Northamptonshire). Mine was always, as my Mum would put it, "well-spoken" (which I guess is a polite way of saying "you're a posh git"). Even here, my accent hasn't changed much, but I can easily switch from the Sydney dialect to my normal one lol. One thing that doesn't change is the way I pronounce "can't", "dance", "chance" etc. My a's in them are pronounced "ah", not like "a-".

Anyway, enough of me, it's good that you're trying to distinguish "th" in everyday speech. Most of my friends are foreign anyway and some of them are recent imports from Vietnam and China. I help them with their English, and it's fun to hear when they sound clearer and more fluent.

[Fatstogey]

Yea that thfront is annoying.

I can speak many different accents. I have none myself. I find it funny that a lot of people dont notice accents. Or dont notice that they have one. Idk i think i have a better interpretation of sounds and accents, and pronunciation than most.

Im white. Born in orlando, always been in orlando.

Ive had people think i was from
Brooklyn
Tennessee
Canada
Britain-This one the most. Its the easiest for me to maintain. Ive done it all night before. lol
France
Germany
And even latino? IDK im 6'5 and white but i can do the accent, well i can also speak some spanish. But still im as white as the driven snow. lol

I have always noticed peoples accents. And often times i find myself starting to use their accents while im talking to them. lol

I know alot of people frown upon certain accents, slangs, and vernacular. Personally i think it keeps things interesting. If everyone was the same it would be boring. Plus it will also let you know where someone is from without them having to say.

[Wras]

The only thing I have to throw in is when someone pronounces a word incorrectly consistently. My short story teacher in college pronounces "chrysanthemums" like "chrythanthemums" and it DRIVES ME FUCKING NUTS.

Usually I don't mind any accent so long as I can actually understand the person but it's odd how even light accents can just use a string of words and I completely missed what they were saying. Though, the more you're around them, the easier it is to understand.

Also, everyone has an accent in some way. You can't really have no accent, the way I see it.

[Marrow Rivengristel]

As far as Accents go the best by far is the Tony Montana.

[NoxieDC]

"All I have in this world are my balls and my word." XD

Oi, accents, accents, accents. Everyone's different and everyone has an accent. It's amusing, colorful and always a source of discussion. The only problem is when the accent makes it hard to understand (somewhat of a problem for me). Otherwise, it's just the idea behind what you're saying that matters.

P.S.: George Carlin n' Pablo Fransisco have fuckin' grate accents mean! :blink:

[RipVanRagnarok]

Everyone expects me to have an East Indian accent, but they're surprised when I start talking like Point Break FBI-surfer Keanu Reeves.

[dynamo]

I have a boring Southern English accent (not cockney I ain't fram landan)

[Skirr]

I have a broad Glaswegian accent.

That is, a lot of ayes, naws, yaes (that would be the faux Glaswegian plural of 'you,' pronounced yeys). Though I try to avoid the latter, there's lots of kids who say all that shit a LOT sound like idiots.

[He's a Mentalist]

I have a regular mid-western accent, whatever that is...

ya'll ain't no nuthin' 'bout dem dere axents ya hear?

Typical

[xHobox]

I have a broad Glaswegian accent.

That is, a lot of ayes, naws, yaes (that would be the faux Glaswegian plural of 'you,' pronounced yeys). Though I try to avoid the latter, there's lots of kids who say all that shit a LOT sound like idiots.

I wondered if anyone had beaten me to it.....haha

Scottish dialects are awesome....and slightly difficult to understand at times.
Here's a short list of some of Scots' terms:

aye - yes
nu'/nah/naw - no
tae - to
wheesht - quiet
hud - hold
hond - hand (mainly used in glasgow from my experience)
barry - good (fairly archaic but still awesome)
braw - good (again, archaic but awesome)
baw - ball
ma/maw - mum

I could go on for hours....
Another perfect example of Scots' dialect is the TV show Taggart.
Taggart is a scottish fictional crime show, which when aired in the states had to be SUBTITLED! Which I found incredibly amusing as it is still the same language.......technically......

I love being Scottish!