Neliel vs Zommari

[grimmjow58]

Who wins the self-proclaimed fastest espada or the former 3rd espada

[Lnrd]

Zommari takes this with use of Amor.

[Rosh]

Im going to go with Neliel because Zommari was what the 7th Espada and Nel was the former 3rd but even then she would have defeated Noitra Jiruga without a sweat, And I think Noitra was stronger than Zommari.

[Rinda Man]

Im going to go with Neliel because Zommari was what the 7th Espada and Nel was the former 3rd but even then she would have defeated Noitra Jiruga without a sweat, And I think Noitra was stronger than Zommari.

no she wouldn't have, nnoi wasn't even released at the time. zonmari is a pain in the ass to everyone with his amor as along as he acts with some intelligence.

[Viva]

this matchup is pretty stupid
its obviously nel

[Yadomaru]

As much as I hate and despise Zommari, I'd say he takes this.

[Hitsugaya_Hinamori]

Since Nel is the 3rd espada and zommari is the 7th.Even though zommari will use amor.Nel is very fast.

[Angels Punishment]

Going by ranking in this is retarded. She wouldn't be able to overwhelm Zommari like Byakuya did with his innumerable amount of blades. Her only chance would be to kill him before he can take control of her, but nothing ever ends that fast. I hate Zommari and Nel is awesome, but I'm going with Lnrd and his reasoning.
Zommari wins unfortunately.

[skipshark]

Wait though, Zommari has to release to be able to use Amor. And when he's in pumpkin form he doesn't seem to be able to move very fast. This leads me to believe that she may hold the upper hand in speed and thereby evade the glare of the eyes and simply poke one out at a time at super high speed. Remember, that's supposed to be one of her fortes, speed.

[Angels Punishment]

Wait though, Zommari has to release to be able to use Amor. And when he's in pumpkin form he doesn't seem to be able to move very fast. This leads me to believe that she may hold the upper hand in speed and thereby evade the glare of the eyes and simply poke one out at a time at super high speed. Remember, that's supposed to be one of her fortes, speed.
That is true also. Though we don't know if she would be fast enough to fully evade the eyes especially if she doesn't know what they do. I would of voted undecided, but there isn't an option for that and decided to just pick a side.

[Afrojack]

If Byakuya is fast enough to throw up a danku before Amor hits him, I'd say Nel is fast enough to sonido through or around Amor and slice his pumpkin ass in half before it can hit her.

[Morgoth]

Neliel of course. She's as fast as possible and if speed doesn't suffice like Afrojack siad, then I don't know what will.

[Afrojack]

She could probably pop his bubble (lol) with a javelin. Byakuya also mentioned the kido-like qualities of Amor, so maybe Nel could swallow it and give it back to him with a cero attached, though she's probably only able to do that with ceros.

[justin43]

Neliel is quick enough to dodge Amor and then bye bye Pumpkin.:amused:

[punni]

The key to using amor successfully is to hide its effect until it is too late for the opponent, but that is something Zommari wouldnt do. He just loves boasting too much, and saying banzai!!!!

[He's a Mentalist]

Neliel did not show any impressive speed in her released form.

I am voting Zommari based on my sole hatred for mundane characters like Neliel. There are enough babbling morons in Bleach.

[Rosh]

Yeah thats what i was saying I think Nel is fast enough to dodge amor, and then she could slice his ass in half like Afrojack ^ was saying.

[Rinda Man]

^she's fast enough based on what?

[OMGLOLBBQ]

Despite the fact that the power levels in Bleach are all over the place, I'm going to go with Nel on this one.

It stands to reason that Nnoitora could beat Zomari, that's why he's 2 ranks higher. And Nnoitora is hella slow.

Nelliel was running circles around unreleased Nnoitora, and when she released there was a HUGE difference.

So I say that she could take this one. If not by power, than by distracting him with her skimpy green outfit. None of Zomari's eyes will be looking at her head or limbs, I promise you that.

[kochito22]

It was a released arrancar fighting against an unreleased arrancar. Of course there was a huge difference.

[Rosh]

^she's fast enough based on what?

I always thought that being the former 3rd espada your power level would have to be great in all aspects, One other reason why I think Nel would win is because she did own Noitra and Noitra was the current 5th where as Zommari was the 7th and if she can par with and practically defeat Noitra I’m thinking she can take out Zommari, Hey Aizen sama thought Noitra is more powerful than Zommari and that's enough for me and Nel did defeat Noitra. Your opinion against Aizen's hmmm.....

[Sublime]

I recall Nnoitra saying she has the power of an Espada numbered 5 or something, so if she can avoid Zommari's ability she'd take this. She's got enough power to effortlessly cut Nnoitra whose Hierro was likely one most strongest within the Espada so she'd have no problem taking him out prior to him releasing.

[OMGLOLBBQ]

It was a released arrancar fighting against an unreleased arrancar. Of course there was a huge difference.

I present for the court's analysis the case of Loly vs. Yammi.

[kochito22]

Loly's a fraccion. Yammy's an espada. That's completely different from Nnoitora vs. Nel.

[Yadomaru]

Yeah, Loly v. Yammi was like...it'd be like comparing Aramaki Makizou of the 11th, who's basically just a random grunt, to say Shinji, who's a former Squad Captain.

[Yayap]

First - this is a battle pit, so no gloating/boasting/revealing what your abilities are to the opponent. We assume everyone fights to their absolute fullest potential. The manga doesn't show that they know each others abilities, so Nel is ignorant of the clones & amor, while Zommari is ignorant of Cero Doble.

Second - Nnoitra said that Neriel's number meant nothing, as the Espada's power-levels had gone up in the years since she was cast out of LN.

Third - Neriel didn't come close to defeating Nnoitra. She was not able to inflict anything like the damage of a killing blow on Nnoitra, who didn't even release against her. And he stayed unreleased for quite some time into the Zaraki fight. And when he did release, his injuries were healed.

Fourth - Byakuya couldn't dodge Zommari's Amor, so I see no reason why Neriel could. Neriel is fast, there is not doubt about that, but we can't say that she is that much faster than Byakuya.

Now, having said that, I think that it could go either way depending on how the battle unfolds. Unreleased, I think that their speed difference will not be enough to give an advantage to Zommari (if he actually is faster). They're both fast, that is all we know. So it comes down to their releases. Neither moved much after releasing.

Neriel has nothing to dodge/block Amor, so she has to attack him & go for the kill ASAP, otherwise she loses. Poking out each eye won't do, it's too slow a process, plus zommari will defend himself. She has cero which may/may not impair the Amor (by either interfering with how it works, or by preventing him from seeing her). Otherwise, she has to go for the 1-hit kill or else he will start controlling her body.



tl;dr - I believe that she has the strength to kill him, but that Zommari's Amor will be very difficult to overcome, and that he could easily end up winning depending how she tries to handle it.

[samir12]

Nel's release form overpowered Nnoitra unreleased, so I see no reason why it would overpower Zommari released if Nel finds a way to dodge or overcome his Amor. We havent seen Zommari fire a cero but the that doesn't go against the fact that Nel could fire her own against him and could use it to her advantage as Zommari released seems to be unable to move and use sonido depicted in the manga (in the anime he uses sonido but that is non-canon) This will be intresting fight imo but for me Nel takes this.

[TW501]

I think that Neliel would win.

[Avix]

As far as I'm concerned, Neliel Tu Oderschvank wins this one by a long shot. I don't care if Zommari Leroux has his Amor or not. Nel-sama would've taken this into consideration and calculated his defeat long before the match had started. Let's not forget that she was a seasoned duelist thanks to Nnoitra Jiruga. Zommari only had his one ability to rely on. Oh, if you want to throw in his supposedly fastest sonido technique which ultimately gives him the illusion of having 5 clones...I don't believe it would've mattered. Nel-sama would've easily predicted his movements if Byakuya Kuchiki had a chance of predicting THREE of them.

All in all, Zommari was a failure as an arrancar. His one and only trump card was beaten by a WALL of kidou made by a shinigami who...even if he didn't disable two of his limbs.....could've still not beaten Nel-sama. Zommari Leroux, you fooled a lot of people...but you never fooled me. Take a hike you pathetic excuse for an Espada!

[Feranor]

Zommari. He made Byakuya resort to Yoruichi's technique in order to dodge, which is definitely saying something about his speed. Neliel, on the other hand, was indeed faster than unreleased Noitorra, but Noi isn't exactly the speed type fighter.

She would have to oneshot him before he could release, which I don't see happening. Of course, this is assuming that Zommari won't fool around like he did with Byakuya.

[Kairen]

I doubt Nell would be able to defeat Zomarri. Nell has pure power and perhaps speed, but Zomarri has eyes in every inch of his body and he should be fast enough for his eyes to keep up with movement such as Nell's. The only reason Byakuya was able to beat Zomarri was solely because he had more blades than Zomarri had eyes. In this case, however, Zomarri doesn't need more than 6 to 8 eyes in order to get his victory and completely incapacitate Nell. The first thing he would have to gain control of is Nell's spear. Once he's done that, he's taken Nell's main weapon and the game is done.

[pumpkin13]

Looks like it's the usual crew, Lnrd, Yayap, Feranor and myself verses...

Yayap and Fez made some very good points, i'm not sure how much I can expand upon them...

First of all... Nel had the upper hand against Noitra whilst she was still in her unreleased form. She was doing pretty well with just sparring and outspeeding him (again Fez' point, Noitra is not a speed tpye, I don't recall him using Sonido at all in the manga, so there's no real indication of impressive speed feat).

As soon as Nel fired her Doble Cero, it all went down hill from there, even before she released. Not only does Noitra tank her doble cero pretty much unharmed, he then proceeds to tank her Lanza Verde within the next five minutes or so. So it all goes tits up for Neliel... and they're big tits...

So she doesn't display any impressive speed that could be even near comparable to Byakuya's, and as it has been pointd out, even his shunpo couldn't outspeed Amor. Danku is an anomalie, as Byakuya could have shunpo'd several times in the space it would take to say "Bakudou Number Eighty Danku!" yet it was fast enough to intercept it whilst his shunpo was not. HOWEVER, thats a moot point becuase Neliel doesn't have anything like danku to help her on those grounds.

It has also been mentioned about how the numbers have changed... Neliel was the former 3rd and at that time Noitra was #8. However, there has been a MASSIVE power shift upwards, Ulquiorra FAR outclasses Noitra, then Halibel must surely outclass Ulquiorra by a decent margin at least... Nel, the former #3 would be absolutely nothing compared to the current #3. Making allowences for the shift in power scale, i'd personally say Nel's power would be around that of #9 to #7.

And Amor is hax anyway, anybody who doesn't have a zan consisting of more than 50 segments and someway of hiding themselves would be screwed...

[Rosh]

Im going to say Neliel

[kcgperformance]

Nel because her speed would completely overwhelm Zommari. She would likely slice him to ribbons before he had one moment to try to release.

[ichigozero]

This is a close fight. Depending on how fast Neliel can go with sonido and attack Zommari close range before being marked by his eyes. Zommari's eyes are akin to Lelouch's Geass in Code Geass except that he can control specific parts. Neliel would have to get first strike and give Zommari no time at all to react. If not, she will end up losing

As much as I like Neliel, I'd go with Zommari as long as he doesn't boast about his abilities.

[Grandespada]

Nel because she is faster and because she fights smarter

[pumpkin13]

did posters #33, #34 and #36 actually read my post? jeez....

[Andrethegiant]

Looks like it's the usual crew, Lnrd, Yayap, Feranor and myself verses...

Yayap and Fez made some very good points, i'm not sure how much I can expand upon them...

First of all... Nel had the upper hand against Noitra whilst she was still in her unreleased form. She was doing pretty well with just sparring and outspeeding him (again Fez' point, Noitra is not a speed tpye, I don't recall him using Sonido at all in the manga, so there's no real indication of impressive speed feat).

As soon as Nel fired her Doble Cero, it all went down hill from there, even before she released. Not only does Noitra tank her doble cero pretty much unharmed, he then proceeds to tank her Lanza Verde within the next five minutes or so. So it all goes tits up for Neliel... and they're big tits...

So she doesn't display any impressive speed that could be even near comparable to Byakuya's, and as it has been pointd out, even his shunpo couldn't outspeed Amor. Danku is an anomalie, as Byakuya could have shunpo'd several times in the space it would take to say "Bakudou Number Eighty Danku!" yet it was fast enough to intercept it whilst his shunpo was not. HOWEVER, thats a moot point becuase Neliel doesn't have anything like danku to help her on those grounds.

It has also been mentioned about how the numbers have changed... Neliel was the former 3rd and at that time Noitra was #8. However, there has been a MASSIVE power shift upwards, Ulquiorra FAR outclasses Noitra, then Halibel must surely outclass Ulquiorra by a decent margin at least... Nel, the former #3 would be absolutely nothing compared to the current #3. Making allowences for the shift in power scale, i'd personally say Nel's power would be around that of #9 to #7.

And Amor is hax anyway, anybody who doesn't have a zan consisting of more than 50 segments and someway of hiding themselves would be screwed...

Pretty much sums it up.

People keep talking about her speed, but if Zommari opens up all his eyes, she's fucked.

[darkp]

Well I am still thinking , Zommari's amor should have some weakeness which we could not see ,like it could be removed or canceled with a huge reiatsu like some kidou effects .Because it is too hexed and he should be ranked higher but he did not.

We did not see any espada have kidou to counter it and it looks like speed does not working against it. And with that abilty , he could even win against ulqiora , halibel and other top espadas, which looks ridicilous to me. If those top guys have a way defend theirself against amor and could win , with that way she could win too.

But Anyway , I will not vote for this vs because of those doubts.

[pumpkin13]

It is theorised that the Espada are ranked on either a) Destructive Capability or b) purely on size of their reiatsu.

Regarding a) Zommari's ability was not destructive, he could not cause widespread damage over large areas. His ability was primarily a captitive ability, not a destructive on.

Regarding b) Zommari at no point appeared to demonstrate large amounts of reiatsu, hence his lower rank.

As for generally being ranked 7...
-Grimmjow was fast enough to keep up with VBIchigo, who is faster than Byakuya, so it's possible he could dodge it. GJ also has numerous ranged attacks so even if his feet/legs are captured he can still attack from afar.

-Noitra could rip his arms off and regen them if they get captured, he could also put his various scythe weapons together over his head to stop Zommari from capturing his head.

-Ulquiorra easily fast enough to dodge I would think, plus has high level damaging distanced attacks, as well as could hide himself using his wings, as well as having even more regenerative potential than Noitra.

-Halibel i theorise could hide herself by swirling her water around her, and still attack from afar whilst still hiding.

-Barrigan... mmmm Death Breath... Pumpkin can't seem to move whilst in res, so that takes care of the offensive side, as for defensive, if Barrigan can move to touch Soifon's shoulder before she realises it then I should think he'd be fast enough to OHKO Zommari before his eyes can register it.

-Stark, not enough info as of yet...

Neliel however doesn't display any obviously epic speedfeets. She looks fast compared to Noitra but then at no point does Noitra use sonido.

[btill9000]

I am going to be outside of the box here. Zommari would take Nel down without even having to release. IMO, he would do better against her unreleased, because he'd be faster than her.

[pumpkin13]

I'll go with that. And anybody arguing he couldn't harm her because of her hierro and her rank is way off because she was 3rd way back in the day. Since then the ranks powers have increased dramatically, the rank below third is now arguably WAY more powerful than her, Ulquiorra would likely trash her unreleased. Even Grimmjow i think wouldnt have any much trouble with her, certainly not in Res vs Res. In terms of reiatsu I would be tempted to put her on a par with Zommari if not lower. I mean Noitra, #5, could tank not only her primary released attack in his unreleased form, but also a double cero only minutes prior to that as well.