Shikai Hisagi vs. Sado (Right Arm of the Giant)

[Lnrd]

Who would win?

Sado only using his fully evolved right arm or Hisagi.

[punni]

what difference does it make that Sado only uses his right arm? His left arm is mainly for attack and his right arm is still a bloody ion cannon.
http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/260/5
So either should deal out enough damage.
The unanswered question is who is quicker (Sonido vs Shunpo) and how much Hisagi can surprise Sado with the mobility of his shikai. I doubt it could cut the right arm shield.


I see this going either way an equal amount of times, so that would account for a draw.

[Lnrd]

^I'm well aware of Sado's abilities. I made it no Left Arm of The Devil to make it more even. One punch from the left arm would end Hisagi's days, that's a fact. However, Hisagi has a high chance of being able to stand up to El Directo imo.

[crisis point]

I still think it has to be hisagi. I mean the fact he can attack simulataneously from 2 directions goes a long way to getting around chads defense. Its damn near impossible however to tell who is faster. Even if we knew the sonido vs shunpo debate each individual masters it to different degrees. Chad is sturdy but his opponents tend to be strength based whereas hisagi would just cut him down til he was too injured to fight.

[justin43]

^I'm well aware of Sado's abilities. I made it no Left Arm of The Devil to make it more even. One punch from the left arm would end Hisagi's days, that's a fact. However, Hisagi has a high chance of being able to stand up to El Directo imo.

Directly? I don't think so. One el directo was able to match a cero-like attack from a released privarion espada.:oh:

[Yadomaru]

Think Hisagi'd be able to shrug off an attack like that, I do not. But of course, the attack'd hafta hit first.
And given that Right-Arm Sado is pretty slow, I doubt Hisagi'd have too much trouble dodging an attack like that.

[kochito22]

Does Sado use sonido while using just his right arm? I can't remember.

[justin43]

Hisagi will have to keep his distance if he wants to win and avoid all of Sado's attacks. Going close combat is a no-no. Given that Sado is no longer slow with the sonido powerup, Hisagi will have a time trying to maintain safe distance meaning distant enough that Sado doesn't get in close enough to punch him with a el directo, but stay in the range of his shikai weapon.

[Rosh]

I would Hisagi takes it, simply based on this Chad's right arm is for defence his left is for offence so it narrows his chances of winning and besides Hisagi is a skilled Lt. meaning he is adept in using kido and other shinigami arts so it would be fair to say Chad would lose.

[TW501]

I'm going to have to say a draw, though I'm leaning more towards Hisagi at the moment.

[Tank]

Chad wins this.

I don't see how Hisagi could seriously injure Chad in any way. Chad was taking shots from a Privaron Espada's zanpakutou to the torso for a while, and this was before his power up. Although Hisagi's zanpakutou is clearly strong, and can cut through a released fraccion, I wouldn't put it up on Privaron Espada level.

A single punch from even Chad's right arm should be able to take Hisagi out, as would an El Directo. Chad is proficient with Sonido and Hisagi is proficient with shunpo. So I'd say they're equal with speed, and Chad is superior in every other category, so Chad wins.

[Zaylen]

Sado is really powerfull but hisagi is fast and skillfull in my opinion (well I don't have really seen hisagi's true power but that's what I believe from the few things I've saw till now..). Hard decision.. I could say a draw. Yup a draw fits better.

[eneru92]

Shikai Hisagi wins this .

While Chad surpasses him in pure strenght , Shuhei outclass him in both speed , experience and has also expert kido abilities and a long range shikai on his own .
I really don't see Chad speeblitzing Hisagi or keeping up with his speed , i don't consider his sonido so fast and developed .
Second , the blast from right arm are relatively slow and Chad's el directo is a close range attack .
Considering that kazeshini is a long range weapon , Hisagi would probably manage to mantain a certain distance between him and Chad , attacking him without go near him .
Last , bakudo 62 would be enough to effectively incapacitate chad , bringing to Hisagi the victory .

[Tank]

While Chad surpasses him in pure strenght , Shuhei outclass him in both speed , experience and has also expert kido abilities and a long range shikai on his own .

Prove to me that Hisagi is faster than Chad, or even as fast as Chad is. Chad's feat of out speeding Gantenbein is more impressive than Hisagi beating a fraccion. Experience means absolutely nothing in Bleach. Hisagi needs time to perform a chant or say the name of the kidou before he can use it. He won't be able to get enough time while dealing with Chad to perform any kidou.

I really don't see Chad speeblitzing Hisagi or keeping up with his speed , i don't consider his sonido so fast and developed .

Well since Chad can casually out-speed a Privaron, his Sonido is more impressive than Hisagi's shunpo.

Second , the blast from right arm are relatively slow and Chad's el directo is a close range attack .

El Directo is a long range attack, and it's probably about as fast as a cero is, seeing as how Chad has hollow based powers.

Considering that kazeshini is a long range weapon , Hisagi would probably manage to mantain a certain distance between him and Chad , attacking him without go near him .

Chad could take blows to the torso from Privaron zanpakutou before he even got his newest right arm. Even if Hisagi's attack power was equal to that Privaron, Chad shrugged all those attacks off like nothing was bothering him as soon as he started using his upgraded right arm.

Hisagi can't deal out enough damage to take Chad down. His endurance is way too high. On the other hand, one clean hit from Chad would either down Hisagi immediately or damage him to the point where he'd be easy pickings.

[Lnrd]

Does Sado use sonido while using just his right arm? I can't remember.

Yes

[kochito22]

Thanks

[eneru92]

Prove to me that Hisagi is faster than Chad, or even as fast as Chad is. Chad's feat of out speeding Gantenbein is more impressive than Hisagi beating a fraccion. Experience means absolutely nothing in Bleach. Hisagi needs time to perform a chant or say the name of the kidou before he can use it. He won't be able to get enough time while dealing with Chad to perform any kidou.



Well since Chad can casually out-speed a Privaron, his Sonido is more impressive than Hisagi's shunpo.



El Directo is a long range attack, and it's probably about as fast as a cero is, seeing as how Chad has hollow based powers.



Chad could take blows to the torso from Privaron zanpakutou before he even got his newest right arm. Even if Hisagi's attack power was equal to that Privaron, Chad shrugged all those attacks off like nothing was bothering him as soon as he started using his upgraded right arm.

Hisagi can't deal out enough damage to take Chad down. His endurance is way too high. On the other hand, one clean hit from Chad would either down Hisagi immediately or damage him to the point where he'd be easy pickings.

First , Mosqueda , just like cirucci , doesn't shown any impressive speed feat .
The fact that he is a privaron doesn't made him automatically faster than an elite VC figher .

Second , Hisaghi raped resurrection Findor with his kazeshini released , so we really don't know what is the pinnacle of his abilities in the usage of his shikai .
Maybe he can defeat a privaron , maybe not .
We cannot say for sure .

Third , Mosqueda toyed with chad all the time , at last until he got both right arm of the giant and left arm of the devil .
Basically , he controlled his true power for all the fight and become serious only when Chad improved .
So , your point fails .

Fourth , Chad hasn't Hierro .
An hit from Kazeshini , both unreleased and shikai , would cut him .
The question is : could be able to block all hisagi attack with his right arm ? I', sure he cannot .

Fifth , your point on hisagi's endurance is pure speculation .

Six , Hisaghi didn't need an incantation for casting a relatively strong bakudo 62 , so he would immobilize Chad without any trouble , just like any other VC level fighter with expert kido skills ( Momo , Kira , Rukia and others )

[Lnrd]

First , Mosqueda , just like cirucci , doesn't shown any impressive speed feat .
The fact that he is a privaron doesn't made him automatically faster than an elite VC figher .

Second , Hisaghi raped resurrection Findor with his kazeshini released , so we really don't know what is the pinnacle of his abilities in the usage of his shikai .
Maybe he can defeat a privaron , maybe not .
We cannot say for sure .

Third , Mosqueda toyed with chad all the time , at last until he got both right arm of the giant and left arm of the devil .
Basically , he controlled his true power for all the fight and become serious only when Chad improved .
So , your point fails .

Fourth , Chad hasn't Hierro .
An hit from Kazeshini , both unreleased and shikai , would cut him .
The question is : could be able to block all hisagi attack with his right arm ? I', sure he cannot .

Fifth , your point on hisagi's endurance is pure speculation .

Six , Hisaghi didn't need an incantation for casting a relatively strong bakudo 62 , so he would immobilize Chad without any trouble , just like any other VC level fighter with expert kido skills ( Momo , Kira , Rukia and others )

1. Him being a privaron doesn't automatically make him slower than Hisagi, either. And, how is Hisagi an elite VC? Because he beat Findor's weak ass? He's one of he stronger ones undoubtedly but to say he's on Bankai Renji and Bankai Ikakku's level is a little crazy.

2. Findor was shit.

3. What exactly did you state that disproves his 3rd point?

4. No he doesn't have hierro, he has a right arm that's used for defense that was capable of blocking Released Gaitenbain's full powered energy blast.

5. True

6. Bakudo 62 is the only thrown bakudo I know of, so Sado can easily sonido away.

[eneru92]

1. Him being a privaron doesn't automatically make him slower than Hisagi, either. And, how is Hisagi an elite VC? Because he beat Findor's weak ass? He's one of he stronger ones undoubtedly but to say he's on Bankai Renji and Bankai Ikakku's level is a little crazy.

2. Findor was shit.

3. What exactly did you state that disproves his 3rd point?

4. No he doesn't have hierro, he has a right arm that's used for defense that was capable of blocking Released Gaitenbain's full powered energy blast.

5. True

6. Bakudo 62 is the only thrown bakudo I know of, so Sado can easily sonido away.

1 . I said that Mosqueda being a privaron doesn't automatically made him stronger than Hisagi , not that Hisagi is surely stronger than him .
Also , Hisagi IS an elite VC , because he showed to be one of the strongest VC .
Renji and Ikkaku are obviusly escluded from this category , considering that now they are at low captain level .

2 . He was an average fraccion level , and he got raped by Hisagi .

3 . he said that Chad got hit in the torso by Mosqueda , claiming that beacuse of this he had more endurance than Hisagi .
I said that that point fails because mosqueda toyed with chad until his improvement .
It was obvius that the privaron's strikes weren't for kill .

4 . I didn't negate it. I just said that i strongly doubt tha chad is capable of defending himself without left himself undercover .

6 . Well , bakudo 62 was just an example .
He could cast bakudo 61 , bakudo 30 , bakudo 4 .
And I doubt that chad would be able to evade from these kido spells .

[Lnrd]

1 . I said that Mosqueda being a privaron doesn't automatically made him stronger than Hisagi , not that Hisagi is surely stronger than him .
Also , Hisagi IS an elite VC , because he showed to be one of the strongest VC .
Renji and Ikkaku are obviusly escluded from this category , considering that now they are at low captain level .

2 . He was an average fraccion level , and he got raped by Hisagi .

3 . he said that Chad got hit in the torso by Mosqueda , claiming that beacuse of this he had more endurance than Hisagi .
I said that that point fails because mosqueda toyed with chad until his improvement .
It was obvius that the privaron's strikes weren't for kill .

4 . I didn't negate it. I just said that i strongly doubt tha chad is capable of defending himself without left himself undercover .

6 . Well , bakudo 62 was just an example .
He could cast bakudo 61 , bakudo 30 , bakudo 4 .
And I doubt that chad would be able to evade from these kido spells .

1. Sorry but just because they have bankai doesn't mean they're captain level. That thought process needs to stop.

2. He was at weak fraccion level , and he got raped by Hisagi (who's average average VC level.

3. He was serious, if he wasn't he would have never made the comment, "Sado Yastoura is this all you can do. This should be a much more even fight." He was the one who thought Sado was playing around, making him even more serious to make Sado use his full power.

4. Okay

6. True, but 1 El Directo from Sado and Hisagi is ass out. During fights in Bleach, shinigami tend to use kidou as a last resort. Hisagi would be dead before his last resort arrives.

[Tank]

Learn to use the quote function better. You also have no idea how to use punctuation.

First , Mosqueda , just like cirucci , doesn't shown any impressive speed feat .
The fact that he is a privaron doesn't made him automatically faster than an elite VC figher .

Besides Renji, what Vice-Captain could stand up to a Privaron Espada? Chad's Privaron was leagues ahead of Findor. And Chad was running circles around him.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/09.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/10.jpg

Second , Hisaghi raped resurrection Findor with his kazeshini released , so we really don't know what is the pinnacle of his abilities in the usage of his shikai .
Maybe he can defeat a privaron , maybe not .
We cannot say for sure .

No, we can say that Hisagi cannot defeat a Privaron until he has proved he's skilled and powerful enough to do so.

Third , Mosqueda toyed with chad all the time , at last until he got both right arm of the giant and left arm of the devil .
Basically , he controlled his true power for all the fight and become serious only when Chad improved .
So , your point fails .

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/13.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/14.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/15.jpg

Um, what exactly was he holding back? :oh:

Fourth , Chad hasn't Hierro .
An hit from Kazeshini , both unreleased and shikai , would cut him .
The question is : could be able to block all hisagi attack with his right arm ? I', sure he cannot .

Hierro is nothing but your reiatsu level. It doesn't matter that Chad isn't an Arrancar; weak people can't cut him. You have to prove that Hisagi's attack is as strong as Ganteinbein's, or else Hisagi damage Chad any more than the Privaron did. Findor wasn't anything impressive at all, so good luck trying to prove he can come close to Privaron level.

And yeah, Chad could definitely block any attack Hisagi threw at him with his right arm.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/13.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/14.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/15.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/16.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/17.jpg

Fifth , your point on hisagi's endurance is pure speculation .

Chad took a massive beating from a Privaron before he upgraded to the level of Chad that Hisagi is fighting now. Chad can casually throw gigantic El Directos and can block or tank anything Hisagi throws at him.

Hisagi has no endurance feats.

Six , Hisaghi didn't need an incantation for casting a relatively strong bakudo 62 , so he would immobilize Chad without any trouble , just like any other VC level fighter with expert kido skills ( Momo , Kira , Rukia and others )

You need space and time for kidou. And you still need to say the name of the spell. Chad isn't giving Hisagi enough time for anything like kidou.

[jayshow]

Learn to use the quote function better. You also have no idea how to use punctuation.



Besides Renji, what Vice-Captain could stand up to a Privaron Espada? Chad's Privaron was leagues ahead of Findor. And Chad was running circles around him.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/09.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/10.jpg



No, we can say that Hisagi cannot defeat a Privaron until he has proved he's skilled and powerful enough to do so.



http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/13.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/14.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/15.jpg

Um, what exactly was he holding back? :oh:



Hierro is nothing but your reiatsu level. It doesn't matter that Chad isn't an Arrancar; weak people can't cut him. You have to prove that Hisagi's attack is as strong as Ganteinbein's, or else Hisagi damage Chad any more than the Privaron did. Findor wasn't anything impressive at all, so good luck trying to prove he can come close to Privaron level.

And yeah, Chad could definitely block any attack Hisagi threw at him with his right arm.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/13.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/14.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/15.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/16.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/17.jpg



Chad took a massive beating from a Privaron before he upgraded to the level of Chad that Hisagi is fighting now. Chad can casually throw gigantic El Directos and can block or tank anything Hisagi throws at him.

Hisagi has no endurance feats.



You need space and time for kidou. And you still need to say the name of the spell. Chad isn't giving Hisagi enough time for anything like kidou.

What he said. Eneru92 has good arguments but Tank's seem to be more logical in this context. We always assume Hisagi can't beat anyone of a privaron level until he proves himself. Findor was just a weaksauce, just absolutely laughable.

We don't start off by saying "maybe Hisagi can beat a privaron" when Hisagi has absolutely no notable feats except vs Findor. And since he isn't a Shunsui/Ukitake/Unohana, hype for him does not really mean much.

IMHO, Chad stomps.

[eneru92]

First , I talked about speed , not power or fighting skill .
Speed only , so your example with Renji is irrelevant .
Neither Mosqueda or Cirucci showed any impressive speed feat .

Second , you are right , we cannot say that Hisagi could defeat a Privaron .
However , we cannot even say that hisagi would lose for sure .
So , stop saying that all VC would be defeated by privaron .

Third , do you really think that mosqueda went all out against Chad before is improvment ?
He pwned him just like grimmjow did against Ichigo in karakura town .
Did that mean that GJ went all out against ichigo ? no

Fourth , how in the hell chad would be able to not be affecteb by a sword's cut ?
he isn't Zaraki kenpachi .
Even if the hit would come from ganju or hanatoru , he still would be cutted .
He is strong , ok , but he never showed to have that much spiritual pressure .

Fifth , what make you think that Chad would be fast enough to block Hisagi casting a kido spell ?
Bakudo's effects are almost istantaneus .
For example , Byakuya's danku was faster than zommari's amour .

[kochito22]

First , I talked about speed , not power or fighting skill .
Speed only , so your example with Renji is irrelevant .
Neither Mosqueda or Cirucci showed any impressive speed feat .

Second , you are right , we cannot say that Hisagi could defeat a Privaron .
However , we cannot even say that hisagi would lose for sure .
So , stop saying that all VC would be defeated by privaron .

Third , do you really think that mosqueda went all out against Chad before is improvment ?
He pwned him just like grimmjow did against Ichigo in karakura town .
Did that mean that GJ went all out against ichigo ? no

Fourth , how in the hell chad would be able to not be affecteb by a sword's cut ?
he isn't Zaraki kenpachi .
Even if the hit would come from ganju or hanatoru , he still would be cutted .
He is strong , ok , but he never showed to have that much spiritual pressure .

Fifth , what make you think that Chad would be fast enough to block Hisagi casting a kido spell ?
Bakudo's effects are almost istantaneus .
For example , Byakuya's danku was faster than zommari's amour .

No, he would not still be "cutted." Zaraki is not the only one who has been hit and not been cut. Hollow Ichigo grabbed Byakuya's sword with his bare hands. Aizen blocked Ichigo's bankai with one finger.

[eneru92]

however , that was all a matter of reiatsu .
Both Aizen , Hollow Ichigo and Kenpachi himself have an incredible reiatsu level .

We cannot say the same for Chad

[kochito22]

It was stated way back in the Soul Society arc that Chad had powerful reiatsu when they were trying to make the cannonball.

[Tank]

First , I talked about speed , not power or fighting skill .
Speed only , so your example with Renji is irrelevant .
Neither Mosqueda or Cirucci showed any impressive speed feat .

Mosqueda's entire fighting style was based on Sonido, and he couldn't move a hair on Chad's head, even when he was released, when Chad had just his right arm.

What makes you think that Hisagi can move as fast as Mosqueda? Oh, Chad's got that covered with ease.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/07.jpg

And for the second time I'll post how much faster Chad is, casually, than Mosqueda.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/09.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/10.jpg

Second , you are right , we cannot say that Hisagi could defeat a Privaron .
However , we cannot even say that hisagi would lose for sure .
So , stop saying that all VC would be defeated by privaron .

No, we can say Hisagi can lose for sure because he hasn't proven that he can. You need proof, and you have supplied absolutely none.

Third , do you really think that mosqueda went all out against Chad before is improvment ?
He pwned him just like grimmjow did against Ichigo in karakura town .
Did that mean that GJ went all out against ichigo ? no

Mosqueda was stabbing Chad in the torso with his zanpakutou. He was hitting him with his stronger of attacks, otherwise he wouldn't have named them. The only thing he was holding back was his release.

Fourth , how in the hell chad would be able to not be affecteb by a sword's cut ?
he isn't Zaraki kenpachi .
Even if the hit would come from ganju or hanatoru , he still would be cutted .
He is strong , ok , but he never showed to have that much spiritual pressure .

No.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000106712/07.jpg

If somebody tries to cut Chad and they don't have enough reiatsu to do it, Chad will not get cut. Chad is above any Vice-Captain, even Renji, and he's probably at low Captain class by now. Chad gives off reiatsu like a huge fountain.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/04.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/10.jpg

Now, saying that Hisagi could cut Chad, Chad has been shown to take tons of blows from a zanpakutou straight to his torso and still shrug them off. His endurance is high. Hisagi isn't taking him down.

Fifth , what make you think that Chad would be fast enough to block Hisagi casting a kido spell ?
Bakudo's effects are almost istantaneus .
For example , Byakuya's danku was faster than zommari's amour .

Do you really not understand that you have to say the name of the kidou? So say Byakuya wants to use hadou #4. He has to say "Hadou #4: White Lightning" and Hisagi won't have enough time to be doing any of that without getting killed.

So let's recap:

Strength: Chad by a mile
Speed: Chad
Durability: Chad
Reiatsu level: Chad

How the hell does Hisagi come close to winning this? Try to bring some proof with you next time.

[ichigozero]

I'm leaning closely to Hisagi right now due to his abilities in the 4 ways of Shinigami. He's pretty much an excellent all-rounder in kido & swordsmanship. So far, he prefers to fight without releasing his zanpakuto first. Only when he has analyzed that he may lose, will he release it. I'd say he'll do it here as well against Chad.

Actually I voted on Hisagi cuz he's my favourite VC. :)

But, without a doubt, Chad's new powerups gives him a boost in speed and strength. Hisagi would have to at least learn Bankai or some new skills with his shikai in order to stand a chance.

[eneru92]

Mosqueda's entire fighting style was based on Sonido, and he couldn't move a hair on Chad's head, even when he was released, when Chad had just his right arm.

What makes you think that Hisagi can move as fast as Mosqueda? Oh, Chad's got that covered with ease.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/07.jpg

And for the second time I'll post how much faster Chad is, casually, than Mosqueda.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/09.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/10.jpg



No, we can say Hisagi can lose for sure because he hasn't proven that he can. You need proof, and you have supplied absolutely none.



Mosqueda was stabbing Chad in the torso with his zanpakutou. He was hitting him with his stronger of attacks, otherwise he wouldn't have named them. The only thing he was holding back was his release.



No.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000106712/07.jpg

If somebody tries to cut Chad and they don't have enough reiatsu to do it, Chad will not get cut. Chad is above any Vice-Captain, even Renji, and he's probably at low Captain class by now. Chad gives off reiatsu like a huge fountain.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/04.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108312/10.jpg

Now, saying that Hisagi could cut Chad, Chad has been shown to take tons of blows from a zanpakutou straight to his torso and still shrug them off. His endurance is high. Hisagi isn't taking him down.



Do you really not understand that you have to say the name of the kidou? So say Byakuya wants to use hadou #4. He has to say "Hadou #4: White Lightning" and Hisagi won't have enough time to be doing any of that without getting killed.

So let's recap:

Strength: Chad by a mile
Speed: Chad
Durability: Chad
Reiatsu level: Chad

How the hell does Hisagi come close to winning this? Try to bring some proof with you next time.

Maybe some of your points can be right , but considering chad at the level of a bankai is just too much .
However , I have to give up , at last until we'll have new battle scenes from Chad and Hisagi .
If chad manages to injure yammi with his right arm , I'll retreat what I said .
Otherwise , I'll continue to defend my statment .

However , there is still a thing on which I cannot agree with you .
In all bleach series , saying the name of a kido never slowed te spells itself .
While Renji was attacking Byakuya with his bankai , the captain says '' bakudo no 61 : rikujokoro '' .
Despite the lenght of the kido name , he still managed to catch Renji .
Another example .
Rukia managed to catch AA in her bakudo 4 , and the espada had plenty of time to block her if your statment would have been correct .
He did it ? no .
So , I really don't understand where are you trying to arrive

[samir12]

Maybe some of your points can be right , but considering chad at the level of a bankai is just too much .
However , I have to give up , at last until we'll have new battle scenes from Chad and Hisagi .
If chad manages to injure yammi with his right arm , I'll retreat what I said .
Otherwise , I'll continue to defend my statment .

However , there is still a thing on which I cannot agree with you .
In all bleach series , saying the name of a kido never slowed te spells itself .
While Renji was attacking Byakuya with his bankai , the captain says '' bakudo no 61 : rikujokoro '' .
Despite the lenght of the kido name , he still managed to catch Renji .
Another example .
Rukia managed to catch AA in her bakudo 4 , and the espada had plenty of time to block her if your statment would have been correct .
He did it ? no .
So , I really don't understand where are you trying to arrive

Kido alone would not win the fight for Hisagi, even Rukia didnt win with her kido.

[eneru92]

Kido alone would not win the fight for Hisagi, even Rukia didnt win with her kido.

Rukia actually used her double kido to reveal the identity of AA , not to kill him or injure him .
It isn't the same thing .

[kochito22]

Maybe some of your points can be right , but considering chad at the level of a bankai is just too much .
However , I have to give up , at last until we'll have new battle scenes from Chad and Hisagi .
If chad manages to injure yammi with his right arm , I'll retreat what I said .
Otherwise , I'll continue to defend my statment .

However , there is still a thing on which I cannot agree with you .
In all bleach series , saying the name of a kido never slowed te spells itself .
While Renji was attacking Byakuya with his bankai , the captain says '' bakudo no 61 : rikujokoro '' .
Despite the lenght of the kido name , he still managed to catch Renji .
Another example .
Rukia managed to catch AA in her bakudo 4 , and the espada had plenty of time to block her if your statment would have been correct .
He did it ? no .
So , I really don't understand where are you trying to arrive

Why? Ichigo needed bankai to overcome Dordonii.

[eneru92]

Why? Ichigo needed bankai to overcome Dordonii.

Well , Dordonii is probably the strongest among the privaron .
He was 103 , when Mosqueda is 107 .

[kochito22]

When was it said that Privaron Espada are numbered by strength?

[Lnrd]

It wasn't. However, I'm pretty sure they were demoted in order meaning Circucci and Dordonni were stronger.

Still Sado takes this.

[Tank]

Maybe some of your points can be right , but considering chad at the level of a bankai is just too much .

Normal new right arm = Renji's Bankai
Right arm of the giant > Renji's Bankai
Left arm of the Devil >>> Renji's Bankai

If chad manages to injure yammi with his right arm , I'll retreat what I said .
Otherwise , I'll continue to defend my statment .

I doubt Chad will throw that many punches with his right arm. He'll mainly be using his left for punches from now on.

However , there is still a thing on which I cannot agree with you .
In all bleach series , saying the name of a kido never slowed te spells itself .
While Renji was attacking Byakuya with his bankai , the captain says '' bakudo no 61 : rikujokoro '' .
Despite the lenght of the kido name , he still managed to catch Renji .
Another example .
Rukia managed to catch AA in her bakudo 4 , and the espada had plenty of time to block her if your statment would have been correct .
He did it ? no .
So , I really don't understand where are you trying to arrive

Character and plot induced stupidity is not relevant in battle arena matches. People can get interrupted while speaking, so they can get interrupted while saying kidou names.

[eneru92]

Normal new right arm = Renji's Bankai
Right arm of the giant > Renji's Bankai
Left arm of the Devil >>> Renji's Bankai


Greatest bullshit I ever heard .
Chad's normal new arm is at the same level of bankai renji ? Are you smoked or what ?
That arm is barely at the level of a shikai .
Renji just TRAINED chad .
Not fight against him on par , none of his blow had killing intent .
If you believe that they fight on par , you are a chad fanboy .
It's like saying that shikai ichigo ( when he obtained again his power ) was on par with shikai Urahara .
Think more about what you says .

I doubt Chad will throw that many punches with his right arm. He'll mainly be using his left for punches from now on.


We are talking about right arm of the giant , not the left .
If chad will manage to injure yammi with right arm , then you are right .
If he won't , then you are wrong .

Character and plot induced stupidity is not relevant in battle arena matches. People can get interrupted while speaking, so they can get interrupted while saying kidou names.

lol .
Following your logic , then Hisagi would have all the time of the world to block chad before he could use '' el directo '' , because he have to say the words .
These logic doesn't work in bleach , so stop saying nonsense

[Darkmaterials]

We are talking about right arm of the giant , not the left .
If chad will manage to injure yammi with right arm , then you are right .
If he won't , then you are wrong .

Chad most likely won't use his right arm to attack though, why would he when he when he has his left arm?

If Yammy is the strongest espada this becomes irrelevant anyway, seeing as it would take a lot more than average bankai strength to hurt him.


lol .
Following your logic , then Hisagi would have all the time of the world to block chad before he could use '' el directo '' , because he have to say the words .
These logic doesn't work in bleach , so stop saying nonsense

What can hisagi do to just block Chad mid attack though?

[Raitei_Ryuu]

Shuhei takes that without a doubt. I mean Chad isn´t really considered to be as strong as a Vice-Captain. Despite the fact that we saw Hisagi fighting an Fraccion who was considered to have Captain like strength (even if he just claimed that one by himself and got his ass kicked badly by shuhei^^) he is also a very intellegent man and with his Shikai being able to attack from the distance he definetly find a way to beat Chad.

[Tank]

Shuhei takes that without a doubt. I mean Chad isn´t really considered to be as strong as a Vice-Captain. Despite the fact that we saw Hisagi fighting an Fraccion who was considered to have Captain like strength (even if he just claimed that one by himself and got his ass kicked badly by shuhei^^) he is also a very intellegent man and with his Shikai being able to attack from the distance he definetly find a way to beat Chad.

Chad is considered to be stronger than every Vice-Captain, and would probably give Hitsugaya a run for his money. Did you read anything in this thread before you posted?

Greatest bullshit I ever heard .
Chad's normal new arm is at the same level of bankai renji ? Are you smoked or what ?
That arm is barely at the level of a shikai .
Renji just TRAINED chad .
Not fight against him on par , none of his blow had killing intent .
If you believe that they fight on par , you are a chad fanboy .
It's like saying that shikai ichigo ( when he obtained again his power ) was on par with shikai Urahara .
Think more about what you says .

Oh, lucky for me I have scans. And, strange enough, I'm the only one of us who does.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108022/19.jpg

From Renji fighting with Chad like that, neither of them can even stand up by themselves. It's wearing them both out a lot, even though Renji seems to have a little more energy. Chad couldn't do anything but get pushed around by the Bankai before he got his new arm, and right here they're both incredibly tired out.

If you look at how drastically Chad powered up from each of his upgrades after that, it's incredibly clear that he's above Renji's level by now. Or are you going to make me post the same exact things again because you don't get it?

That's clearly not the same kind of thing that happened with Urahara.

We are talking about right arm of the giant , not the left .
If chad will manage to injure yammi with right arm , then you are right .
If he won't , then you are wrong .

No, I'm not wrong if he doesn't injure Yammi with his right arm. First of all, like I said, he'll probably be throwing punches with his left arm. You know, the offensive one. So if he doesn't throw any punches with his right, then how is he supposed to injure anybody?

Second of all, I have already proved that Chad has more than enough strength to take Hisagi out with one or two hits, and you have already conceded the point of Chad's strength. So what the hell are you going on about?

lol .
Following your logic , then Hisagi would have all the time of the world to block chad before he could use '' el directo '' , because he have to say the words .
These logic doesn't work in bleach , so stop saying nonsense

No, Chad doesn't say El Directo before he fires it, he just fires it, and when he does it's the size of a tidal wave. Nice try though.

I'm making perfect sense and using proof from the manga to support myself.

[kochito22]

That arm is barely at the level of a shikai .

Rofl

When have we ever seen a shinigami block an attack from a released privaron espada with shikai? Ichigo needed bankai to block one.

[pumpkin13]

Chad doesn't have hierro no, if he DOES, it's on his shield arm. Shields can only block from one angle. Kazeshini can attack from two simultaneously. Kazeshini was also shown to slice through full power Findor's hierro like a hot knife through butter; effortlessly. With some more effort it could cut through more powerful hierro.

I dunno... I think Hisagi has a broader spectrum of fighting skills that he could utilise, plus more skill and expertise in fighting. Chad for a long time was just a brawler.

[Tank]

Chad doesn't have hierro no, if he DOES, it's on his shield arm. Shields can only block from one angle. Kazeshini can attack from two simultaneously. Kazeshini was also shown to slice through full power Findor's hierro like a hot knife through butter; effortlessly. With some more effort it could cut through more powerful hierro.

Chad can tank direct shots from zanpakutou just fine, so even if one does hit him he has nothing to worry about unless it keeps on hammering him. Besides, Hisagi can't throw a half of Kazeshini faster than Sonido, so Chad can block it incredibly easy. Even if Hisagi tries to Shunpo and directly attack Chad with his zanpakutou, he can block that just as easily.

I dunno... I think Hisagi has a broader spectrum of fighting skills that he could utilise, plus more skill and expertise in fighting. Chad for a long time was just a brawler.

The only thing Hisagi has on Chad is kidou skills, and Chad has energy blasts anyways. Chad's stronger, faster, more durable, and is just all around better than Hisagi. The only thing Hisagi might win in is strategy, but I don't what he could plan that would give him the win against Chad.

[pumpkin13]

where does he tank shots from a direct zanpakutou? and is it released?

And no, but he can shunpo and throw kazeshini, he can also change it's path in flight, and has been shown to throw kazeshini behind his opponent, then shunpo the distance past his opponent and catch kazeshini behind him, this to me shows a level of strategy above most characters in bleach (even if it isn't exactly mindblowing strategy... most characters are stuck to... "right... he's attacking with the sword in his right hand... SO I'LL DEFEND WITH MY LEFT ARM!!!!"). He could also utilise bakudou to hinder chad, i'm not saying it would completely stop him, but would give Hisagi some openings.

[Rosh]

Ok Im starting to lean more towards chad now, If not I would say it would end in a draw they truly are evenly matched.

[Tank]

where does he tank shots from a direct zanpakutou? and is it released?

No, not released, but he still shrugs it off fine once he gets his Right arm of the Giant.

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/13.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/14.jpg
http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108302/15.jpg

And no, but he can shunpo and throw kazeshini, he can also change it's path in flight, and has been shown to throw kazeshini behind his opponent, then shunpo the distance past his opponent and catch kazeshini behind him, this to me shows a level of strategy above most characters in bleach (even if it isn't exactly mindblowing strategy... most characters are stuck to... "right... he's attacking with the sword in his right hand... SO I'LL DEFEND WITH MY LEFT ARM!!!!").

A strategy like that only works if Hisagi is faster than his opponent though. Chad's reaction time is definitely high enough to be able to see through and casually block any Shunpo based attacks.

He could also utilise bakudou to hinder chad, i'm not saying it would completely stop him, but would give Hisagi some openings.

Like I said before, he needs time and space to perform Bakudou, and I don't think he can get either if Chad's coming after him.

[Raitei_Ryuu]

[QUOTE=Tank;1743484]Chad is considered to be stronger than every Vice-Captain, and would probably give Hitsugaya a run for his money. Did you read anything in this thread before you posted?
QUOTE]

Just making sure: When in the manga or the Anime is it stated that Chad is considered stronger than any Vice Captain??? Just asking, because maybe I can´t remember that part sooo refresh my mind if it´s possible.

[Tank]

It's not stated directly by any character in the manga but I can prove without a shadow of a doubt that Chad is far beyond Vice-Captain level by now. Just look at his feats that I've posted. It's pretty obvious.

[Raitei_Ryuu]

It's not stated directly by any character in the manga but I can prove without a shadow of a doubt that Chad is far beyond Vice-Captain level by now. Just look at his feats that I've posted. It's pretty obvious.

So thanks you for stating what I wanted to hear, we have no proof for that. But let me bring out some points that I think are quite important. So what exactly do we know when we compare Chad to a Vice Captain:

Speed: He may be faster than that Armadillo Espada but that doesn´t mean that he is faster than any Vice-captain also he used Shunpo/Sonido for the first time against Gantenbainne Mosqueda and we do know that it takes alot of practice to develop this technique, something the Vice-Captains have been doing for YEARS.

Strength: Destruction Power goes to Chad without a doubt. Overall Kido spells, fighting experience and there shikai/bankai changes the picture in favor of the Vice-Captains. They know what they have to do, they are trained for fighting and don´t have there positions for nothing.

Strategy: Chad is a brawler who relies on his brute strength and nothing more. He doesn´t reallly think to much about his actions he tries to wear his opponents down that´s all striking till the enemy collapses. Most Vice-Captains use strategy when they fight, they try to find the weakness of there openents and use it against them.

Sooooooooo i give you the point that Chad can hang around with some of the Vice Captain (Iba, Marechiyo Ōmaeda, Chōjirō Sasakibe come to mind here) but all in all I go for Shuhei without a doubt.

[eneru92]

From Renji fighting with Chad like that, neither of them can even stand up by themselves. It's wearing them both out a lot, even though Renji seems to have a little more energy. Chad couldn't do anything but get pushed around by the Bankai before he got his new arm, and right here they're both incredibly tired out

I really hope you are kidding .
The fact that both Renji and Chad are tired doesn't actually mean nothing .
Renji was tired not because he fight evenly with Chad or because he struggled against him , but simply because the usage of bankai ( not to mention the trouble Renji has to effectively control it for his huge size ) requires much energy .
Don't use the manga scan in the way that is more advantageous for you .

[Tank]

So thanks you for stating what I wanted to hear, we have no proof for that. But let me bring out some points that I think are quite important. So what exactly do we know when we compare Chad to a Vice Captain:

No, I have plenty of proof and I've provided it. My proof is Chad's physical feats, which are much, much better than any Vice-Captain.

Speed: He may be faster than that Armadillo Espada but that doesn´t mean that he is faster than any Vice-captain also he used Shunpo/Sonido for the first time against Gantenbainne Mosqueda and we do know that it takes alot of practice to develop this technique, something the Vice-Captains have been doing for YEARS.

Um, it doesn't matter how long Chad's been using Sonido. Don't you understand that experience means absolutely nothing in Bleach? All of Ichigo's friends are prime examples of this. Except Rukia. She's a useless bitch.

And since Gantenbein is faster than any Vice-Captain, and Chad is faster than him by a mile, so if you want to say that Hisagi can come anywhere close to being as fast as Chad, you need to bring some proof. Right now Chad casually blocks any and all of Hisagi's Shunpo attacks without exerting himself in the least.

Strength: Destruction Power goes to Chad without a doubt. Overall Kido spells, fighting experience and there shikai/bankai changes the picture in favor of the Vice-Captains. They know what they have to do, they are trained for fighting and don´t have there positions for nothing.

Kidou doesn't matter, Hisagi won't have the time or space to use it. Chad has gigantic energy blasts as well. Experience means shit. And nothing with Hisagi's shikai can change the picture in favor of him. He's nowhere near fast enough with that thing to do a thing to Chad.

Strategy: Chad is a brawler who relies on his brute strength and nothing more. He doesn´t reallly think to much about his actions he tries to wear his opponents down that´s all striking till the enemy collapses. Most Vice-Captains use strategy when they fight, they try to find the weakness of there openents and use it against them.

Yeah, and if you're better than your opponent in every single area, going after him and beating the fuck out of him is all the strategy you need. And strategy isn't going to do a thing to help somebody who's completely out-classed like Hisagi is.

Strategy can only work to a certain point. That's like saying Mayuri, who uses strategy a lot, vs Ukitake, who we've never seen use any strategy. Although Ukitake would royally mop the floor with Mayuri, since Mayuri has used strategy before he stands a chance? Not even close. Strategy doesn't matter in areas like this.

Sooooooooo i give you the point that Chad can hang around with some of the Vice Captain (Iba, Marechiyo Ōmaeda, Chōjirō Sasakibe come to mind here) but all in all I go for Shuhei without a doubt.

Well you're stupid, and you're ignoring what Chad has done while your fanboyism/fangirlism (I'm not going to bother to scroll up to look at your gender), has led you to believe that Hisagi wins, when he doesn't even come close.

I really hope you are kidding .
The fact that both Renji and Chad are tired doesn't actually mean nothing .
Renji was tired not because he fight evenly with Chad or because he struggled against him , but simply because the usage of bankai ( not to mention the trouble Renji has to effectively control it for his huge size ) requires much energy .
Don't use the manga scan in the way that is more advantageous for you .

Then why does Renji have either blood or dirt on his face?

And I'm the only person in this thread using manga scans and supplying proof.

[eneru92]

Then why does Renji have either blood or dirt on his face?

What an incredible eyes you have .
There is not a single drop of blood on Renji's face .
That is simply a wrinkle formed by his facial expression .

[Tank]

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108022/19.jpg

On the left side of Renji's face. That's one weird ass wrinkle. I've never seen that anywhere on him in the rest of the series though, how strange. . .

[eneru92]

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000108022/19.jpg

On the left side of Renji's face. That's one weird ass wrinkle. I've never seen that anywhere on him in the rest of the series though, how strange. . .

So , following your nonsense logic , kubo would have to draw all the wrinkles in the same place of the face .
So , if a wrinkle is drawn in a different spot of the head , then he cannot be a wrinkle .
Is this what you thought ? A really awesome logic
And even assuming that it is blood ( which , infact , it is not ) it is just a drop .
Is this enough for you to assume that Chad fought evenly with Renji ?
Really , actual Chad is not even at the level of Hitsugaya .
Considering him at captain level , even before obtaining his two developed arms , is just to much for me .

[Tank]

So , following your nonsense logic , kubo would have to draw all the wrinkles in the same place of the face .
So , if a wrinkle is drawn in a different spot of the head , then he cannot be a wrinkle .

Did you even fucking look at that picture? It's a big dark line drawn all the way down Renji's cheek. That's not a wrinkle.

And even assuming that it is blood ( which , infact , it is not ) it is just a drop .

Look who's interpreting the manga by himself now. You know exactly what that is on Renji's face huh? Well it's not a wrinkle. Anybody with two eyes and a relatively good eyesight can see that. And I don't know about you, but the last time I shed a drop of blood it didn't go all the way down my face.

Is this enough for you to assume that Chad fought evenly with Renji ?

When they're each just as tired out as each other with the same minor wounds, then yes.

Really , actual Chad is not even at the level of Hitsugaya .
Considering him at captain level , even before obtaining his two developed arms , is just to much for me .

I never said Chad was Captain level when training with Renji, just Vice-Captain level. Since then he's gotten two huge upgrades, and his right arm alone is enough to take down any Vice-Captain.

[eneru92]

Did you even fucking look at that picture? It's a big dark line drawn all the way down Renji's cheek. That's not a wrinkle.

That is your point of wiew .
For me is a wrinkle .
And even assuming it is blood , this is the single injure on Renji .
It just prove that maybe Chad managed to lend a minimal hit on Renji's face .
What incredible feat , don't you think ?
However , that doesn't change the fact it was a training .
While Chad cannot do nothing but defence , Renji was just pushing him down without trying to injure him .
I don't continue to repeat myself once more .
If you still believe that Chad is bankai level , you are a fanboy .

When they're each just as tired out as each other with the same minor wounds, then yes.

Again ? Renji actually used BANKAI ! bankai requires much energy to be used and controlled effectively .
Chad's skills doesn't matter here .

I never said Chad was Captain level when training with Renji, just Vice-Captain level. Since then he's gotten two huge upgrades, and his right arm alone is enough to take down any Vice-Captain.

Yes , you did .
Claiming that Chad is equal to bankai renji without right arm of the giant , you automatically stated that , with his lef arm of the devil , Chad reached the level of captain .
And , obviusly , he is not at captain level .

[Tank]

That is your point of wiew .
For me is a wrinkle .
And even assuming it is blood , this is the single injure on Renji .
It just prove that maybe Chad managed to lend a minimal hit on Renji's face .
What incredible feat , don't you think ?
However , that doesn't change the fact it was a training .
While Chad cannot do nothing but defence , Renji was just pushing him down without trying to injure him .
I don't continue to repeat myself once more .
If you still believe that Chad is bankai level , you are a fanboy .

Yeah, I'm a fanboy who provides proof from the manga. How fucking stupid can you get? Can you provide proof for any of your arguments? No. Can you disprove any of my arguments? No. Can you actually show me what's wrong with the proof I supply and not just switch it around and put your foot in your mouth? No.

Chad was able to fight Renji with Bankai. Before he was getting shoved around with his first arm and it wasn't even fair. After an unknown period of time, Chad is putting scars on Renji's face and tiring him out a lot. It makes perfect sense to infer that by that time Chad got his very first upgrade, and was finally able to do something against Renji, because before it wasn't even training, it was just a beat down.

Chad made Renji tired as hell and bleed. Renji is the best Vice-Captain and better than Hisagi. Chad's right arm of the Giant puts him miles ahead of that, and miles upon miles ahead of Hisagi. He would have no trouble dealing with him, as I have proven countless times now.

You can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face, that doesn't change the fact that I have proof and a solid argument and all you have is hypocrisy.

Again ? Renji actually used BANKAI ! bankai requires much energy to be used and controlled effectively .
Chad's skills doesn't matter here .

Bullshit. Ichigo runs around for hours with Bankai, and he can't control shit. It should wear him out faster than anyone else, but it doesn't. Using Bankai doesn't tire you out like that. Even fighting, however, does. Chad's skills do matter.

Yes , you did .
Claiming that Chad is equal to bankai renji without right arm of the giant , you automatically stated that , with his lef arm of the devil , Chad reached the level of captain .
And , obviusly , he is not at captain level .

How the hell did I state that Chad was Captain level again? Renji is not Captain level, even with Bankai. He couldn't come close to standing up to Byakuya, he took him down with kidou and Shikai, and then to embarrass him, he shredded him with his Bankai even though it wasn't needed. Renji is no Captain level, and Chad with his normal right arm isn't either.

[eneru92]

Yeah, I'm a fanboy who provides proof from the manga. How fucking stupid can you get? Can you provide proof for any of your arguments? No. Can you disprove any of my arguments? No. Can you actually show me what's wrong with the proof I supply and not just switch it around and put your foot in your mouth? No.

Chad was able to fight Renji with Bankai. Before he was getting shoved around with his first arm and it wasn't even fair. After an unknown period of time, Chad is putting scars on Renji's face and tiring him out a lot. It makes perfect sense to infer that by that time Chad got his very first upgrade, and was finally able to do something against Renji, because before it wasn't even training, it was just a beat down.

Chad made Renji tired as hell and bleed. Renji is the best Vice-Captain and better than Hisagi. Chad's right arm of the Giant puts him miles ahead of that, and miles upon miles ahead of Hisagi. He would have no trouble dealing with him, as I have proven countless times now.

You can repeat yourself until you're blue in the face, that doesn't change the fact that I have proof and a solid argument and all you have is hypocrisy.

First , who the hell do you think you are ? Think more before calling a people stupid , you are no one .
And Yes , you are a fanboy that uses manga scans as his pleasure .
Fight is a different thing from training , and renji trained Chad .
If you like to believe that it was an equal fight , feel free to believe what you want .
I'm done on this argument .

Bullshit. Ichigo runs around for hours with Bankai, and he can't control shit. It should wear him out faster than anyone else, but it doesn't. Using Bankai doesn't tire you out like that. Even fighting, however, does. Chad's skills do matter.

Bullshit . Also , you did the worst example to prove your suggestion .
Ichigo's bankai , as Byakuya himself noted , is different from all other bankai .
It compressed Ichigo's reiatsu in a form much more easy to control .
If you think mine are just suggestions , go to read chapter 163 .
You can't absolutely compare a bankai of the size of a palace like Renji's to Ichigo's .

[Raitei_Ryuu]

No, I have plenty of proof and I've provided it. My proof is Chad's physical feats, which are much, much better than any Vice-Captain.


So what exactly is Chad´s astonishing Physical feats?? Firing fancy beams or crushing an oppent against a wall and a skull appears (that i have to admit rocked)


Um, it doesn't matter how long Chad's been using Sonido. Don't you understand that experience means absolutely nothing in Bleach? All of Ichigo's friends are prime examples of this. Except Rukia. She's a useless bitch.

And since Gantenbein is faster than any Vice-Captain, and Chad is faster than him by a mile, so if you want to say that Hisagi can come anywhere close to being as fast as Chad, you need to bring some proof. Right now Chad casually blocks any and all of Hisagi's Shunpo attacks without exerting himself in the least.


You don´t really have a clue what you are talking about right?? Look whos throwing around with statements that aren´t proofed and to put it simple are just ridiculous. Experience is all even in the Universe of Bleach. Every fighter needed to train to achieve their power, so what is trainign for you??? NON Experience. Every character in this manga developed with every fight and every training they went through, even Chad had to train to become that strong as he is now. Bu Considering how you see things, Sado could have just skipped his training becaus he doesn´t need experience to grow......yeah right. Ishida, Ichigo, Byakuya Kuchiki, Ukitake, Shunsui and so on all needed to train and need to make their Experience and grow same thing with shunpo and sonido.

That said it leads me to the part where I had to laugh. YOU the one that needs for everything a proof in this manga, YOU are starting to throw around random facts. Tell me the page where it is said that gantenbain is faster than any VC or faster than any one in Bleach. I mean come on......when you try do discuss use facts please?????


Kidou doesn't matter, Hisagi won't have the time or space to use it. Chad has gigantic energy blasts as well. Experience means shit. And nothing with Hisagi's shikai can change the picture in favor of him. He's nowhere near fast enough with that thing to do a thing to Chad.


Let me get the picture straight Chads strength and power grows when he activates his arms right???? okay the same goes with any VC, Captain or Espada. Sad thing that kido spells can be used to bind your oppenent and other stuff and are able to be used without the incarnation spell, but let´s keep that aside


Yeah, and if you're better than your opponent in every single area, going after him and beating the fuck out of him is all the strategy you need. And strategy isn't going to do a thing to help somebody who's completely out-classed like Hisagi is.


I beg you to stop before it gets more and more ridicolous. You are the one complaining about everyone whos says that Chad is going to lose that fight and all you are wining about is "prooof it proooof it prooooooof it". Same goes to you proof to me where Hisagi is outclassed by Chad by any means????? He is stronger?? Maybe. He is faster, don´t think so, Chad will win that one let me think----------------- NOT


Well you're stupid, and you're ignoring what Chad has done while your fanboyism/fangirlism (I'm not going to bother to scroll up to look at your gender), has led you to believe that Hisagi wins, when he doesn't even come close.


Well that kills it for^^. You are calling someone stupid for his own opinion....that is weak boy. Next thing you call me a fanboy (yes gender is male just making sure you are getting that one right) but you just blew the scale for fanboyism in just one post as you tried to take me down. But all in all that was a bullet to you own knee. Saying that Chad wins that one is fine to me but really starting to brag about everything that isn´t proofed is dumb. Also it´s very dumb to try to argument against others when you are the one that can´t proof a thing.

Little advice, when you compare two fighters. Alway look at both sides and see the weaknesses of both fighters.


Then why does Renji have either blood or dirt on his face?


And that one kept me laughing for an hour. dude seriously that thing on Renjis face is a common sign in Mangas and Animes when a character get´s angry or confused.....

[Tank]

First , who the hell do you think you are ? Think more before calling a people stupid , you are no one .

Welcome to BleachExile.

And Yes , you are a fanboy that uses manga scans as his pleasure .

I proved that Chad is above Vice-Captain level. I later used a manga scan that clearly showed Renji tired out and bleeding and said just that. Chad made Renji bleed with right arm. His right arm of the Giant is able to bring him to the level to react to Sonido like nothing, which would be more than enough to react to any of Hisagi's attacks,

Fight is a different thing from training , and renji trained Chad .
If you like to believe that it was an equal fight , feel free to believe what you want

If you're training somebody you're not going to let them bloody you up, that's common sense. They're both bloodied up and tired, though in a fight between the two of them at that point Renji would win. I'm just saying Chad was close. And his right arm of the Giant puts him way over the top.

Bullshit . Also , you did the worst example to prove your suggestion .
Ichigo's bankai , as Byakuya himself noted , is different from all other bankai .
It compressed Ichigo's reiatsu in a form much more easy to control .
If you think mine are just suggestions , go to read chapter 163 .
You can't absolutely compare a bankai of the size of a palace like Renji's to Ichigo's .

Bankai is Bankai. It doesn't matter how large it is. Even though Ichigo's was so small in the beginning it crushed his bones. However, that didn't tire him out in the same way Renji's did. Byakuya's doesn't do anything to him. Hitsugaya's doesn't do anything to him. Ikkaku's doesn't do anything to him. Komamura's doesn't do anything to him. Tousen's doesn't do anything to him.

Get the picture yet? Using Bankai doesn't tire you out. Period. He was tired from fighting and bleeding from fighting.

I'm done on this argument .

Concession accepted.

So what exactly is Chad´s astonishing Physical feats?? Firing fancy beams or crushing an oppent against a wall and a skull appears (that i have to admit rocked)

Being stronger than somebody stronger than Hisagi. Being faster than somebody faster than Hisagi. Having a reaction time greater than anything Hisagi can throw at him. Being better than Hisagi in every fighting area besides kidou, but that doesn't really matter because Chad's El Directo has a ton of power behind it anyways. More than Hisagi has shown with any of his kidou.

You don´t really have a clue what you are talking about right?? Look whos throwing around with statements that aren´t proofed and to put it simple are just ridiculous. Experience is all even in the Universe of Bleach. Every fighter needed to train to achieve their power, so what is trainign for you??? NON Experience. Every character in this manga developed with every fight and every training they went through, even Chad had to train to become that strong as he is now. Bu Considering how you see things, Sado could have just skipped his training becaus he doesn´t need experience to grow......yeah right.

Wow. There's a difference between experience and training that you don't seem to grasp. Ichigo trained for 2 days and achieved Bankai. With no Bankai experience he took on Byakuya, who had years and years of experience. Get the difference?

Chad got Sonido but doesn't need experience with it because he's proficient enough with it as it is.

Ishida, Ichigo, Byakuya Kuchiki, Ukitake, Shunsui and so on all needed to train and need to make their Experience and grow same thing with shunpo and sonido.

And Chad got Sonido and didn't need any experience. His Sonido was already better than the Privaron's he fought.

That said it leads me to the part where I had to laugh. YOU the one that needs for everything a proof in this manga, YOU are starting to throw around random facts. Tell me the page where it is said that gantenbain is faster than any VC or faster than any one in Bleach. I mean come on......when you try do discuss use facts please?????

Um, no that's your job. Privaron Espada have shown to be stronger than fraccion. Like making Ichigo go Bankai, knocking around the Chad who was even with the Renji who beat a Fraccion, etc. Hisagi beat a fraccion, but that doesn't mean he can beat a Privaron. Now if you want to go and find some proof that would help Hisagi be strong or fast enough to beat a Privaron like Chad did.

Let me get the picture straight Chads strength and power grows when he activates his arms right???? okay the same goes with any VC, Captain or Espada. Sad thing that kido spells can be used to bind your oppenent and other stuff and are able to be used without the incarnation spell, but let´s keep that aside

Yeah, that's right. The only problem is Hisagi isn't fast enough to do anything to Chad even when he activates his Shikai. Chad shrugs off Sonido based attacks like nothing, so what's Hisagi's Shunpo going to do?

I beg you to stop before it gets more and more ridicolous. You are the one complaining about everyone whos says that Chad is going to lose that fight and all you are wining about is "prooof it proooof it prooooooof it". Same goes to you proof to me where Hisagi is outclassed by Chad by any means????? He is stronger?? Maybe. He is faster, don´t think so, Chad will win that one let me think----------------- NOT

I have already proven it plenty of times. Chad is faster, stronger, and far more durable than Hisagi. I don't feel like going through this thread and finding the same thing I've posted twice before and posting it again. Look it up. Read the thread.

Well that kills it for^^. You are calling someone stupid for his own opinion....that is weak boy.

No, I called you stupid for ignoring mountains of proof.

Next thing you call me a fanboy (yes gender is male just making sure you are getting that one right) but you just blew the scale for fanboyism in just one post as you tried to take me down.

Yeah, you're a fanboy who ignores all the proof I've provided. Like Chad's sonido, him taking direct shots from zanpakutou that knocked him into the ground, him sending El Directos the size of tidal waves, reacting to super-sonic ceros and blocking it with ease, and blocking sonido attacks without even looking. All of that puts Chad over Vice-Captain level. If you want to actually debate this with me, bring some manga scans of anything Hisagi's done that makes him stronger than Chad.

But all in all that was a bullet to you own knee. Saying that Chad wins that one is fine to me but really starting to brag about everything that isn´t proofed is dumb. Also it´s very dumb to try to argument against others when you are the one that can´t proof a thing.

I've backed up every single thing I've said with proof and manga scans. You're the one who's too lazy to look through the thread.

Little advice, when you compare two fighters. Alway look at both sides and see the weaknesses of both fighters.

Okay, Hisagi's weakness is that he's inferior to Chad in every aspect. Chad's weakness to Hisagi is that he can't use Bakudo. Chad wins.

And that one kept me laughing for an hour. dude seriously that thing on Renjis face is a common sign in Mangas and Animes when a character get´s angry or confused.....

Um. . . no. He's not confused or angry at anything. That's blood on his face. Look again. And I'm not talking about the obvious sweat drop either.

[Soujirou]

Tank, don't bother, they will never change their argument, and will never accept yours, no matter what kind of proof you throw at their faces they will ignore.

and poor little Hisagi btw, he is a pretty cool character, and friends with my favorite one, but he would be a pushover for Chad, and this gap will only get bigger too, because Chad is one of the main chars, while Hisagi isn't, therefore taking away lots of his potential.

[kochito22]

Ikkaku's not a main character. He pulled a bankai out his ass. Maybe Hisagi will do the same.

[deucezulu]

Yo man relax with the name calling, all this is, is just a simple debate. I like to hear other people's reasons along with yours. Now I personally think Chad would win this, but how about this. Ichigo could not beat the privaton (don't know if I spelled that right) espada in shikai mode, so what was the ranking of that arrancar compared to the one chad fought? Maybe that will shed some light on whether chad would beat Hisagi.

And I know there is a thread "Chad vs. Ellon" on this site and some members believed chad would beat Ellon. Now if that's the case, Chad would or should definitely win against Hisagi since Hisagi got almost eaten, squashed, and tossed (If I remember right) by Ellon. Who knows, this is all speculation.

[ichigozero]

Woah... to go beyond all that....

Whatever it was that sparked this, both of you do make compelling arguments about both Hisagi and Chad.

I do like Hisagi as one of my favourite VCs and Chad as a metaphor of one aspect of my life which is: That strength does not come from just perspiration but also of the will.

But lets face it, no matter how great your arguments are, theres bound to be people who won't agree with you. And I hate to use Bleach as a reference but like how Ichigo told Hitsugaya in Diamond Dust Rebellion that theres always people who won't agree with you. Its up to you how to act upon it.

Chill... I don't see where this is leading

[Nana]

I am actually torn between the two characters on this one. I do believe that both have the capability of becoming the stronger of the two but if I had to choose, I would lean more to Hisagi. However, we must see the extent of both character powers and the fact that they both have potential in becoming stronger than they are now. Therefore, I can not determine the victor as of yet.

[Tank]

Ichigo could not beat the privaton (don't know if I spelled that right) espada in shikai mode, so what was the ranking of that arrancar compared to the one chad fought? Maybe that will shed some light on whether chad would beat Hisagi.

Alright, so chances are that Dordonii was stronger than Gantenbein, I can accept that. Makes sense and I agree with it. However, Gantenbein was also stronger than Findor, and any other fraccion I can think of.

Look, when Renji was training Chad, Chad got his new right arm. Then later on during the training the Espada invasion came to Earth and both Chad and Renji tried to go help. Urahara told them they were both much too tired out to go, so he would go instead. This is where we see Chad and Renji barely able to stand up, incredibly tired out, and both of them are bleeding. That clearly points out that they were close to even at that point. I have already provided the scan with this numerous times.

Now, that same Renji was stronger than the Grantz fraccion. He did admit that he wasn't sure how it could've gone if he didn't have his limiter on from the start, but if you look at the way other Vice-Captains manhandled their fraccion, and that Renji is clearly the strongest Vice-Captain, then that puts Renji >/ fraccion level, with Chad equal with him or slightly behind.

A Privaron was manhandling that level of Chad, who was a top Vice-Captain level. Then Chad got the Right Arm of the Giant and made Gantenbein look like a fool. I have provided multiple scans to prove this point, to prove Chad's feats and how much higher than any Vice-Captain he stands. I have literally proven it and not one person has been able to bring up a single point to where Hisagi could take Chad down. Chad wins this very easily.

[crisis point]

Alright, so chances are that Dordonii was stronger than Gantenbein, I can accept that. Makes sense and I agree with it. However, Gantenbein was also stronger than Findor, and any other fraccion I can think of.

Look, when Renji was training Chad, Chad got his new right arm. Then later on during the training the Espada invasion came to Earth and both Chad and Renji tried to go help. Urahara told them they were both much too tired out to go, so he would go instead. This is where we see Chad and Renji barely able to stand up, incredibly tired out, and both of them are bleeding. That clearly points out that they were close to even at that point. I have already provided the scan with this numerous times.

Now, that same Renji was stronger than the Grantz fraccion. He did admit that he wasn't sure how it could've gone if he didn't have his limiter on from the start, but if you look at the way other Vice-Captains manhandled their fraccion, and that Renji is clearly the strongest Vice-Captain, then that puts Renji >/ fraccion level, with Chad equal with him or slightly behind.

A Privaron was manhandling that level of Chad, who was a top Vice-Captain level. Then Chad got the Right Arm of the Giant and made Gantenbein look like a fool. I have provided multiple scans to prove this point, to prove Chad's feats and how much higher than any Vice-Captain he stands. I have literally proven it and not one person has been able to bring up a single point to where Hisagi could take Chad down. Chad wins this very easily.

I don't mean to be pedantic and i see your points (wich are well illustrated and with justification - things many often arguee without) but I just wanted to point out 1 or 2 opinions of my own.

Firstly the training with Renji isn't really indicative of anything, Renji would have his imiter on, and hence at 1/5 power, plus he was using Bankai, intended to be a large source of power but which is hard to maintain for long periods. So in a training session its easy to see how he would get worn out even if he spent the whole time smacking Chad around. (And I doubt that is blood on Renji's cheek, it doesn't look like blood and chad doen't use attacks which slice so such a thin amount of blood is unlikely)

Also, Renji is not necessarily the strongest vice captain. Shikai forms of Shuhei and Kira are probably more powerful than Renji's shikai, and Renji's Bankai isn't very mature. Ikkaku has bankai too, and he's 3rd seat.

Gantenbein was a brute force arrancar, the kinda matchup they keep giving Chad, and the Fraccion of the top Espada seem to be more than comparable in power to the privaron espada, I don't think that fight is sufficient to give a definate victory to Chad

I personally think Hisagi could pip this one but it would be damn close.

[samir12]

Ikkaku has bankai too, and he's 3rd seat.

He is only 3rd seat because of how close Yachiru is to Kenpachi, he would easily be vice captain if Kenpachi didnt love Yachiru so much.

[crisis point]

He is only 3rd seat because of how close Yachiru is to Kenpachi, he would easily be vice captain if Kenpachi didnt love Yachiru so much.

my point stands even if he were VC, Renji isn't THAT special. Although Yachiru does seem to have a lot of power but just never shown it, I wish we could see what she can do, one of the VC's we've never seen in any combat.

[Tank]

Firstly the training with Renji isn't really indicative of anything, Renji would have his imiter on, and hence at 1/5 power, plus he was using Bankai, intended to be a large source of power but which is hard to maintain for long periods. So in a training session its easy to see how he would get worn out even if he spent the whole time smacking Chad around. (And I doubt that is blood on Renji's cheek, it doesn't look like blood and chad doen't use attacks which slice so such a thin amount of blood is unlikely)

You know what? I completely forgot about the limiter. I guess that doesn't necessarily make Chad better than Renji. Though, that makes it harder to guess how much stronger Chad's Right Arm of the Giant made him. He was still able to react to Sonido with ease, so he still has quite the edge on Hisagi's shunpo in my opinion.

Also, Renji is not necessarily the strongest vice captain. Shikai forms of Shuhei and Kira are probably more powerful than Renji's shikai, and Renji's Bankai isn't very mature. Ikkaku has bankai too, and he's 3rd seat.

I think Renji is the strongest Vice-Captain while in Bankai. I mean, although he's not on Captain level, he was able to give Byakuya, a mid-tier Captain, a little bit of resistance.

Gantenbein was a brute force arrancar, the kinda matchup they keep giving Chad, and the Fraccion of the top Espada seem to be more than comparable in power to the privaron espada, I don't think that fight is sufficient to give a definate victory to Chad

Barragan's fraccion didn't seem to have anything that made them any stronger than Grimmjow's fraccion in my opinion. Well, besides Po beating down Ikakku.

[He's a Mentalist]

Lol @ all of the people voting for Chad. Chad would get mopped in this match. Hisagi took down a captain level fraccion...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/14/

During the fight he would raise his power to certain levels and then once he shattered part of his mask, his power would rise again. Maybe it is a power similar to that of a lower-level captain, i.e. Hitsugaya. But that doesn't change from the fact that it was captain level power.

Besides Hisagi defeating a captain level opponent, Hisagai also has great agility and mobility allowing him to do crazy things mid-air. Hisagi also has kidou knowledge.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/324/13/

^ Chantless bakudo.

I doubt Chad could stand up to Hisagi...

My vote, of course, is for Hisagi.

[kochito22]

Lmao it wasn't captain level. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/17/

[He's a Mentalist]

I will retort with this...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/324/06/

^ Findor fighting at the level of a lieutenant and not having much trouble fighting Hisagi... He hasn't released yet during that time.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/324/08/

^Findor releases and it is a well known fact that when arrancar's release they reveal their true forms, thus increasing in power. He may have been of mid-high-vice captain level then.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/14/

^Shatters mask and uses all of his power. He may have been close to a captains level of power during that instance, but Hisagi was stronger.

[Paragon]

You and many others are under the assumption that, that fraccion was Captain class purely based of the fact the he himself said he was. Well guess what...evidence would suggest otherwise, not to mention that Hisagi himself who has personally been around Captains stated that the fraccion was not at the level that he believed he was.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-338-page-17.html

But then surely common sense must be used right about now. Hitsugaya is arguably the weakest Captain in Bleach thus the marker of the bare minimum requirement one has to be at before claiming the title "Captain class". Now by no stretch of the imagination would Hisagi pwn Hitsugaya in the same way that he did that fraccion and it'd be crazy thinking to even assume he can.

In short just because a character says something about themselves doesn't mean its always true, i.e Nnoitra.

[He's a Mentalist]

Now by no stretch of the imagination would Hisagi pwn Hitsugaya in the same way that he did that fraccion and it'd be crazy thinking to even assume he can.

Given the same situation without plotkai, he probably could. Hitsugaya's bankai comes with different abilities associated with them, which would give him the edge in a fight over an opponent like Hisagi. That would be the main reason he would beat Hisagi, unless Hitsugaya shows off some kidou that competes with Hisagi's already mid level kidou.

But then surely common sense must be used right about now.

I reworded my post to say that, "findor was approaching captain level."

For the sake of it though, I will argue he was captain level.

Ichigo, when going to the bridge, was in fact captain level. Ukitake pointed that out. Now take that same Ichigo vs. Hitsugaya, would he beat him?

[Paragon]

Given the same situation without plotkai, he probably could. Hitsugaya's bankai comes with different abilities associated with them, which would give him the edge in a fight over an opponent like Hisagi. That would be the main reason he would beat Hisagi, unless Hitsugaya shows off some kidou that competes with Hisagi's already mid level kidou.



I reworded my post to say that, "findor was approaching captain level."

For the sake of it though, I will argue he was captain level.

Ichigo, when going to the bridge, was in fact captain level. Ukitake pointed that out. Now take that same Ichigo vs. Hitsugaya, would he beat him?

Plotkai doesn't apply in this section, not that Hitsugaya would require it to defeat a Vice Captain. You're overrating Hisagi purely based of the fact that he defeated an opponent who claimed he was Captain class.

Findor never did anything to suggest that he was approaching the level of a Captain, aside from break pieces from his mask. Now Renji and Ikkaku are people who are approaching that said level and they'd destroy Findor. Notice the difference in their level and Findor's.

Ukitake was commenting on Ichigo's reiatsu. But possessing the reiatsu of a Captain is clearly not enough without the skill/abilities to put it to use, thus Byakuya at that time could have owned Ichigo with one Shikai attack as he nearly did before Yoruichi stepped in. So no that same Ichigo would not have defeated Hitsugaya, especially without even mastering Getsuga Tenshou.

[He's a Mentalist]

That was the main point of my post. Findor possessed the power, or reiatsu of a captain, but could not effectively utilize it.

Findor never did anything to suggest that he was approaching the level of a Captain, aside from break pieces from his mask.

What suggestions do you need? I will repost my earlier post narrowing down Findor's power-level and him releasing it in increments...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/324/06/

^ Findor fighting at the level of a lieutenant and not having much trouble fighting Hisagi... He hasn't released yet during that time.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/324/08/

^Findor releases and it is a well known fact that when arrancar's release they reveal their true forms, thus increasing in power. He may have been of mid-high-vice captain level then.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/14/

^Shatters mask and uses all of his power. He may have been close to a captains level of power during that instance, but Hisagi was stronger.

Now Renji and Ikkaku are people who are approaching that said level and they'd destroy Findor.

Both of which had trouble defeating Grimmjow's fraccion...

[Paragon]

That was the main point of my post. Findor possessed the power, or reiatsu of a captain, but could not effectively utilize it.



What suggestions do you need? I will repost my earlier post narrowing down Findor's power-level and him releasing it in increments...





Both of which had trouble defeating Grimmjow's fraccion...

Findor fighting at Vice Captain level would be him fighting on par with a released Hisagi or at least close enough, obviously that wasn't the case on both accounts because he was wiped out the moment Hisagi released. Fighting against an unreleased Hisagi is not impressive and doesn't suggest in the slightest that he was anywhere near Captain class level.

No proof suggesting that he had reiatsu coming close to that of Captain either, not that its relevant in anyway, shape or form.

Aside from Po, Grimmjow's fraccions > Barragan's.

[He's a Mentalist]

What stipulates Grimmjow's fraccion being stronger than Barragans? The fact that two bankai fighters were fighting at 20% of their power and the 3rd fighting with full strength? I would refute that...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/207/09/

^ Clearly Renji's power wasn't even equal to that of a vice captain's power. Hisagi could take a 20% bankai Renji with only shikai and win...

Ikkaku was using his full strength the whole time as well, so there really is no point in addressing his power level higher of that of a vice captain. Besides, the 7th division VC pointed out Ikkaku's power as being weaker than his captain by a massive margin. This also points out that Ikakku clearly is not a captain level shinigami although he has bankai.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/207/09/

[Paragon]

What stipulates Grimmjow's fraccion being stronger than Barragans? The fact that two bankai fighters were fighting at 20% of their power and the 3rd fighting with full strength? I would refute that...



^ Clearly Renji's power wasn't even equal to that of a vice captain's power. Hisagi could take a 20% bankai Renji with only shikai and win...

Ikkaku was using his full strength the whole time as well, so there really is no point in addressing his power level higher of that of a vice captain. Besides, the 7th division VC pointed out Ikkaku's power as being weaker than his captain by a massive margin. This also points out that Ikakku clearly is not a captain level shinigami although he has bankai.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/207/09/

What gave you the idea that i said Ikkaku was at Captain level? I said he was approaching that level, big difference. Also yes Grimmjow's fraccions are superior precisely because Ikkaku required Bankai to defeat Edorad and because 20% Bankai Hitsugaya would pwn all aside from perhaps Po.

[He's a Mentalist]

What gave you the idea that i said Ikkaku was at Captain level? I said he was approaching that level, big difference.

Not exactly. It is a proven fact that two of the fights, the shinigami had haxes of zanpaktou, but their opponents were quite strong.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/320/17/

Yumichika vs. Coolhorn...

With one strike he broke Yumichik'a arm in three places, just one strike from the guy. Yumichika resorted to using his 2nd form of shikai which was already a hax shikai. It was able to defeat a VC.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/323/22/

Izaru vs. Abirama. That match up was also a match up against a hax shikai that would double the weight of an opponents sword, in this case, the wings of Abirama. Abirama was much stronger and had a better combat style than Izaru, but Izaru's shikai was just the weapon to defeat him.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/11/

That match up is Hisagi vs. Findor. Hisagi's shikai was versatile and had the mobility that catered to Hisagi's unpredictable fighting style....

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/15/

Someone might use that slide to refute me, but you can see Hisagi pulling his shikai back towards himself. He did not throw his zan and hit Findor, but rather pulled it back. Findor ended up getting scared and running away.

The only fighting style that did not work against Barragan's fraccion was the power fighting style that Ikkaku is used to fighting with. In order to defeat Po, Ikkaku would either need to develop a long range based fighting style, or become quite stronger than Po which was not the case.

Also yes Grimmjow's fraccions are superior precisely because Ikkaku required Bankai to defeat Edorad and because 20% Bankai Hitsugaya would pwn all aside from perhaps Po

You base that on the fact that a 3rd seated character who acquired bankai needed it to defeat his opponent? Ikkaku is power-based fighter who went up against another power-based fighter who was on his level, but was still a fraccion. Ikkaku's bankai is not even that powerful to begin with... Also, just because a person has bankai in its infancy does not mean they are powerful or tipping on a captains level of power.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/328/09/

Ikakku bankai is not stronger than Hitsugaya shikai.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/330/19/

^ A captain level fighter who had to go shikai to defeat one of Barragan's fraccion. Notice that they weren't limited in power.

The other fraccion was killed by Soi-Fon, but was clearly able to take down a Vice-Captain level opponent.

Barragan's fraccion are clearly stronger than Grimmjow's fraccion.

[kochito22]

You base that on the fact that a 3rd seated character who acquired bankai needed it to defeat his opponent? Ikkaku is power-based fighter who went up against another power-based fighter who was on his level, but was still a fraccion. Ikkaku's bankai is not even that powerful to begin with... Also, just because a person has bankai in its infancy does not mean they are powerful or tipping on a captains level of power.

Ikkaku had bankai way back when Renji was in Squad 11, right?



http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/328/09/

Ikakku bankai is not stronger than Hitsugaya shikai.

How does that page prove that at all? It was a comparison between Ikkaku's bankai and Komamura's.



http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/330/19/

^ A captain level fighter who had to go shikai to defeat one of Barragan's fraccion. Notice that they weren't limited in power.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/332/19/

[He's a Mentalist]

She did not need to go shikai to see a resurrection, so that doesn't prove anything.

How does that page prove that at all? It was a comparison between Ikkaku's bankai and Komamura's.

It was to prove that Ikkaku's bankai isn't even on a captains level, or near that of a captain level bankai.


Ikkaku had bankai way back when Renji was in Squad 11, right?

You'd have to show me the chapter... I am not too clear on that.

[kochito22]

She did not need to go shikai to see a resurrection, so that doesn't prove anything.


It was to prove that Ikkaku's bankai isn't even on a captains level, or near that of a captain level bankai.



You'd have to show me the chapter... I am not too clear on that.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/206/19/

Ikkaku taught Renji how to fight back when Renji was in Squad 11.

[He's a Mentalist]

Nope...

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/206/18/

That was when Aizen, Gin and Tousen had already left SS.

Also just because Ikkaku taught Renji how to fight a long time ago, does not indicate that Ikkaku had bankai back then.

[kochito22]

Did you even read the page? "I told you when I taught you how to fight, didn't I? That I have no intention of telling anyone besides you and Yumichika that I have bankai." Come on, man. Atleast click the link before bullshitting.

[Paragon]

^lol wow.

Not exactly. It is a proven fact that two of the fights, the shinigami had haxes of zanpaktou, but their opponents were quite strong.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/320/17/

Yumichika vs. Coolhorn...

With one strike he broke Yumichik'a arm in three places, just one strike from the guy. Yumichika resorted to using his 2nd form of shikai which was already a hax shikai. It was able to defeat a VC.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/323/22/

Izaru vs. Abirama. That match up was also a match up against a hax shikai that would double the weight of an opponents sword, in this case, the wings of Abirama. Abirama was much stronger and had a better combat style than Izaru, but Izaru's shikai was just the weapon to defeat him.



So? Just because those opponents prove a challenge for Kira and Yumichika doesn't mean they're the strongest fraccions thus far. Ikkaku and Renji > them both and for one Renji would be more than capable of taking on both fraccions on separate occasions with his Shikai let alone Bankai. But even still what fraccion of Barragan did we see can take on 20% Bankai Hitsugaya? None. Po is a slight maybe.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/11/

That match up is Hisagi vs. Findor. Hisagi's shikai was versatile and had the mobility that catered to Hisagi's unpredictable fighting style....

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/325/15/

Someone might use that slide to refute me, but you can see Hisagi pulling his shikai back towards himself. He did not throw his zan and hit Findor, but rather pulled it back. Findor ended up getting scared and running away.

And your point is? This doesn't suggest or prove that Barragan's > Grimmjow's so i see no point in you stating the obvious on that one. :/

Hisagi wiped the floor with a released Findor in Shikai, thus making Findor borderline VC level at the very best and even thats pushing it.

The only fighting style that did not work against Barragan's fraccion was the power fighting style that Ikkaku is used to fighting with. In order to defeat Po, Ikkaku would either need to develop a long range based fighting style, or become quite stronger than Po which was not the case.

Ikkaku's Shikai obviously failed but then he held back by not going Bankai. The fact that Po was able to send Sajin a good distance from one single punch puts Po way ahead of Barragan's other fraccions, but not enough to suggest that Ikkaku in Bankai could not beat him.

You base that on the fact that a 3rd seated character who acquired bankai needed it to defeat his opponent? Ikkaku is power-based fighter who went up against another power-based fighter who was on his level, but was still a fraccion. Ikkaku's bankai is not even that powerful to begin with... Also, just because a person has bankai in its infancy does not mean they are powerful or tipping on a captains level of power.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/328/09/

Ikakku bankai is not stronger than Hitsugaya shikai.

Yeah, kochito22 got this. Although that scan does not prove in anyway, shape or form that Ikkaku Bankai is inferior to that of Hitsugaya's Shikai. It merely proves that Sajin's Bankai is superior to that of Ikkaku's, which in no way does is disprove Ikkaku's case of approaching Captain level.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/330/19/

^ A captain level fighter who had to go shikai to defeat one of Barragan's fraccion. Notice that they weren't limited in power.

The other fraccion was killed by Soi-Fon, but was clearly able to take down a Vice-Captain level opponent.

Barragan's fraccion are clearly stronger than Grimmjow's fraccion.

Had to? At that moment in time no. Vega was immobilised and was susceptible to an open attack. When Soi Fon did go Shikai she could have easily one shotted or better yet two shotted Vega at any moment. She merely toyed with her as Kochito22's scan would suggest. So by no means does that case prove that Barragan's fraccion's > Grimmjow's, not by a long shot.

So now lets face it. Hisagi did not defeat a Captain class opponent in Findor. So the whole idea that you and many have that he did is false. Its been proven and a privarion >>> fraccion, an adversary Chad defeated.

[He's a Mentalist]

Did you even read the page? "I told you when I taught you how to fight, didn't I? That I have no intention of telling anyone besides you and Yumichika that I have bankai." Come on, man. Atleast click the link before bullshitting.

My bad...

So? Just because those opponents prove a challenge for Kira and Yumichika doesn't mean they're the strongest fraccions thus far. Ikkaku and Renji > them both and for one Renji would be more than capable of taking on both fraccions on separate occasions with his Shikai let alone Bankai.

Yumichika vs. Renji? Renji own Yumichika? I think not. Reason is his shikai 2nd form latches onto an opponent and consumes their spiritual energy, so I doubt Renji could beat him. Not to mention, Renji hasn't shown any impressive shunpo thus far. Ikkaku vs. Kira: not much of a match since Kira's shikai doubles the weight each time it clashes swords with an opponents weapon, so I doubt any of the two could be taken easily by either Ikkaku or Renji as you seem to suggest.

But even still what fraccion of Barragan did we see can take on 20% Bankai Hitsugaya? None. Po is a slight maybe.

We can't readily gauge that fact mainly because Hitsugaya did not take on any of Barragan's fraccion. Bending the argument in your favor creates a slight contradiction. "What fraccion of Barragan's have taken on 20% Hitsugaya? None." Then you add in, "Po is a slight maybe." Po only took on Sajin who, by an educated guess and some scans, is stronger than Hitsugaya, "strength-wise."


Hisagi wiped the floor with a released Findor in Shikai, thus making Findor borderline VC level at the very best and even thats pushing it.

You are leaving out the fact that Findor had trouble predicting Hisgi's shikai movements. That is why he lost because he could not concentrate on both, Hisagi and his shikai. Hisagi even mentioned that findor was having trouble. Findor cannot multi-task. That in no way indicates that he was borderline VC level.

Ikkaku's Shikai obviously failed but then he held back by not going Bankai. The fact that Po was able to send Sajin a good distance from one single punch puts Po way ahead of Barragan's other fraccions, but not enough to suggest that Ikkaku in Bankai could not beat him.

It does suggest as much simply due to the fact that Po suffered no injuries from Ikkaku's shikai... Merely going bankai could he then take on an unreleased Po.

Some points like the Soi-fon vs. Vega and Ikakku having bankai back when he taught Renji I concede on...

[pumpkin13]

Ikakku's shikai is unfortunately one of the most pants. It has no abilities except seperating into a three sectioned staff. It's doesnt allow for a massive amount of power to be put behind it, which IMO is why he really went down against Po.

Mentalist: Yeah i agree with everything you say here. I started a thread up Shikai Kira vs. Bankai Ikakku and i still think Kira would take him. Renji vs. Yumichika, Yumi would win again thanks to his haxness.

However: I don't think it's a case of Findor being borderline VC level at best (lol do you REALLY think a 4th/3rd seat could handle Findor? Aside of Miss Plotkai herself Rukia... er... and Yumi and Ikakku... but ASIDE of them! lol). I think it's more that Findor was around upper mid tier VC level, but Hisagi is in the far upper echelons of VCdom.

It wasn't solely that he couldn't predict Kazeshini's movements, Hisagi was highly meneuverable and tactical, throwing kazeshini past Findor, making him think he'd missed, then shunpoing behind Findor and catching the blade he'd thrown wrapping it around Findor etc etc. Plus his use of kidou as well. And Hisagi really didn't take that long to finish Findor once he had released, he spent most of the battle in sealed form.

[deucezulu]

^lol wow.



So? Just because those opponents prove a challenge for Kira and Yumichika doesn't mean they're the strongest fraccions thus far. Ikkaku and Renji > them both and for one Renji would be more than capable of taking on both fraccions on separate occasions with his Shikai let alone Bankai. But even still what fraccion of Barragan did we see can take on 20% Bankai Hitsugaya? None. Po is a slight maybe.



And your point is? This doesn't suggest or prove that Barragan's > Grimmjow's so i see no point in you stating the obvious on that one. :/

Hisagi wiped the floor with a released Findor in Shikai, thus making Findor borderline VC level at the very best and even thats pushing it.



Ikkaku's Shikai obviously failed but then he held back by not going Bankai. The fact that Po was able to send Sajin a good distance from one single punch puts Po way ahead of Barragan's other fraccions, but not enough to suggest that Ikkaku in Bankai could not beat him.



Yeah, kochito22 got this. Although that scan does not prove in anyway, shape or form that Ikkaku Bankai is inferior to that of Hitsugaya's Shikai. It merely proves that Sajin's Bankai is superior to that of Ikkaku's, which in no way does is disprove Ikkaku's case of approaching Captain level.



Had to? At that moment in time no. Vega was immobilised and was susceptible to an open attack. When Soi Fon did go Shikai she could have easily one shotted or better yet two shotted Vega at any moment. She merely toyed with her as Kochito22's scan would suggest. So by no means does that case prove that Barragan's fraccion's > Grimmjow's, not by a long shot.

So now lets face it. Hisagi did not defeat a Captain class opponent in Findor. So the whole idea that you and many have that he did is false. Its been proven and a privarion >>> fraccion, an adversary Chad defeated.

Agreed.

[Paragon]

Yeah..i'm not prepared to type up another long winded response especially when were going back and forth. My mission was for us to establish that Findor is not at the level of a Captain and now that, that mission has been accomplished suddenly Hisagi doesn't look as amazing as some made him out to be just because he owned some delusional weakling. Chad owns Hisagi in every way. Only thing that Hisagi has going for him is a Shikai that won't do jack to Chad.

[He's a Mentalist]

As for delusional and being weak? Findor was far from that. Findor could have possibly mistaken his power as being to that of a captain, but he probably exemplified what a VC's power level was and then thought that once he broke his mask he would be on par with a captain in terms of power. Findor was mistaken though (I concede the point where he is captain level), but he was actually a high-mid-tier Vice-Captain level opponent. Hisagi shikai is high-tier VC level in my honest opinion.


I don't think it's a case of Findor being borderline VC level at best (lol do you REALLY think a 4th/3rd seat could handle Findor? Aside of Miss Plotkai herself Rukia... er... and Yumi and Ikakku... but ASIDE of them! lol). I think it's more that Findor was around upper mid tier VC level, but Hisagi is in the far upper echelons of VCdom.

It wasn't solely that he couldn't predict Kazeshini's movements, Hisagi was highly meneuverable and tactical, throwing kazeshini past Findor, making him think he'd missed, then shunpoing behind Findor and catching the blade he'd thrown wrapping it around Findor etc etc. Plus his use of kidou as well. And Hisagi really didn't take that long to finish Findor once he had released, he spent most of the battle in sealed form.

True. Findor wasn't as apt to Hisagi's fighting style which, in my opinion, is one of the best we've seen so far in Bleach. The versatile, mobile, and unorthodox fighting style is a well suited fighting style to go up against all types of opponents. When you use that sort of fighting style against a character like Chad... well I will address that below.


Hisagi doesn't look as amazing as some made him out to be just because he owned some delusional weakling. Chad owns Hisagi in every way. Only thing that Hisagi has going for him is a Shikai that won't do jack to Chad.

His shikai could do major damage to Chad. But lets compare and contrast their fighting styles, abilities, and power...

Fighting Style:

Hisagi : As said above, Hisagi has an unorthodox fighting style which is suited well with his shikai and not only that can be used against almost any opponents fighting style.

Chad: Is just a brawler.

Hisagi's fighting style is much better than Chad's brawling fighting style.

Abilities:

Hisagi: Is good at kidou and has a nice shikai that has an unpredictable pattern to it.

Chad: A shield and two power attacks in which have to make impact with the opponent in order to be effective. But in some cases he could use the environment to his advantage, but I don't know what good that would do against Hisagi.

My vote is going to Hisgai in this round simply due to the fact he knows some mid kidou spells that could greatly hurt Chad in a fight.

Power:

Hisagi: Is of high V-captain level and stays calm, cool, and collected within a frenzy. He also shows battle intellect on the battle-field as shown in the Findor fight.

Chad: In terms of strength, I would not put him way above Hisagi, but Chad does have an edge over Hisagi in strength from an estimated guess and due to Chad's inert strength he has had during his childhood.

In terms of overall power Hisgai takes this. Chad is stronger physically than Hisgai though (this is based on a guess though).

I highly doubt Chad could defeat Hisagi. When you match up their respective talents, Hisagi shines.

[LazyBum]

Chad > Htsagi in Speed (show me picture or something where Hisagi is faster than an ex espada and I will retract my statement)
Chad > Hisagi in Power (show me a picture or something that shows Hisagi can produce more power than Chad and I will retract my statement, do not use the picture where he cut fidor because Chad WAY > Fid in terms of defence)
Chad < Hisagi in Versatility of attacks ( I admit the use of kido plus close/long range weapons are the only thing Hisagi has working for him)
Chad > Hisagi in Endurance and Defense (Show be an incredible feat of defense and I will change this statement)

Overall Chad school Hisagi
out of the main cast crew, ichigo, hime, ishida, rukia, renji, and chad. As of right now I would say Chad is the second strongest because before hand he could stand after taking a blow from Renjis bankai and that was before his upgrades and he was already better than hime and rukia. And now that he is advanced his Hollow transformation and Renji and Ishida haven't got anything new I think he is the best.

My Opinion only its just Chad can overwhelm him by constantly coming at him even after being hit, is faster than him, and has enough power to take him out if 1 or 2 hits.

Another thing against Hisagi is that fact that his weapon is long range can work against him. If he throws it out and misses Chad is in his face and there goes his head. In all aspects Hisagi is gone. He throws his weapon out and gets blitzed and beat, if he doesn't he is going to try and brawl a brawler and there he goes again.

[pumpkin13]

Generally I agree, however:

Another thing against Hisagi is that fact that his weapon is long range can work against him. If he throws it out and misses Chad is in his face and there goes his head.

There are two parts to Hisagi's shikai, he can throw one and keep the other on as a hand held blade/scythe weapon.

[LazyBum]

Ya I thought about that but do you honestly think that Hisagi can stop Chad with just half of his shikai because I don't

[Nafets]

I voted hisagi, 4 the reason of experience. Hisagi has alot of that, were chad only has a few months. Sometimes thats all thats needed in a fight.

[jayshow]

I guess Hisagi is too damn cool and strong to lose to Chad. And Findor was probably the strongest ever since he was *obviously* captain level. Hisagi 1-shotted the fearsome and unstoppable Findor, which by default makes him the baddest ass alive.

I'm starting to think he tanked on purpose vs Allon to avoid being a captain. I mean Yama should've sent Hisagi to HM to ensure their victory for he could've taken out privaron espadas left and right.

In short, Hisagi = too strong and cool, possesses fearsome fearsome reiatsu, an unstoppable/unpredictable/unrivaled shikai, and is the master of kido.

Did I mention he is so damn cool? Hence he wins by default. Heck, I even think he'd destroy scarmask and stark 1 on 1. Perhaps the wave behind Halibel isn't Ukitake, but just water irradiating from the coolness that is Hisagi Fucking Shuuhei. Brace yourselves, Hisagi is about to stop Halibel dead in her tracks.

[justin43]

How was Findor obviously captain level based on manga evidence?:suspicious:

[kochito22]

Sarcasm is usually hard to detect online but his post was dripping with it.

[justin43]

My mistake for reading through post too fast.:sweatdrop:

@nafets
When has experience ever matter in bleach?

[Vergil]

Chad > Htsagi in Speed (show me picture or something where Hisagi is faster than an ex espada and I will retract my statement)

I guess they are even. If they fought on earth , I think Hisagi would win this.
One of main factors that Chad won was that he was in HM.

[justin43]

I don't think Chad's power and speed would have such a dramatic decrease that Hisagi can just win if he is on Earth. Hollows, shinigami, and quincy powers all increase in HM and SS. The rate of the increase is unknown.

[LazyBum]

Vergil just because you quoted what I said doesn't count as evidence to prove at all that they are in fact even, Hisagi hasn't shown any fantastic speed but as for Chad KT made it a point to write the fact that he was easily out pacing a priv. espada.

[pumpkin13]

Ya I thought about that but do you honestly think that Hisagi can stop Chad with just half of his shikai because I don't

Kazeshini cut through Findor's maximum strength Hierro like a hot knife through butter. Now Findor may have been deluding himself that he was captain level, but he was likely at least mid-high borderline VC level. Ganbeinten was #107 Privaron if I recall correctly.

Nell was previously #3, and now #5>#3, and look at the vast power increase between Noitra and Ulquiorra, (we haven't seen hali's true power yet but it's evidently going to be more powerful than Ulquiorra). My point is that numbers from back then have slid way down, Ganbeinten today wouldn't even be the equivelent of like the 14th Espada.

Also, generally speaking, from 10-5 at least, the captains are all more than matches for their espada counterparts. Meaning Espada's 5-10 =/= average captain level, the levels are on a slant incline to each other.

Another thing I thought of... Why are the Privaron ranked in the three digits, and not given numbers #20 to #11? They are privaron, ex-espada because Aizen's Hougoukyu allowed him to create more powerful beings which rendered the old espada redundant. The Numeros however are not ranked in strength. My point is, there could be Numeros that were createdafter the Priveron, that were more powerful than them, but still not powerful enough to get into the new Espada.

Ultimately my conclusion is that Ganbeinten really is not much above high VC level himself, if not on the mid-high VC borderline, and as such Findor and Ganbeinten are not as incomparable as many of you think.

Chad's powers are hollow based, so the shield on his arm is almost certainly hierro of some form. Plus he had a power boost cus he was in HM (it has not been suggested that Shinigami get a boost in SS) so if he was in the real world, or SS, then his abilities would be diminished ever so slightly. And like I said, Hisagi cut through Findor's maxmium level Hierro with ease, using a thrown blade. Thrown blades constantly would lose the driving force behind them as soon as they leave the hand, whereas one held in the hand could constantly be applied with force, allowing Hisagi to put much more effort into it.

Thus I don't think it's completely batshit insane to suggest that Hisagi can cut through Chad's shield/ arm armour in close combat. Chad comes in with a megapunch and Hisagi slices through it, with a little difficulty.

You see, Chad has the upper hand in blunt force attacking, Hisagi by far has the upper hand with cutting and slicing.

My mistake for reading through post too fast.:sweatdrop:

@nafets
When has experience ever matter in bleach?

No coincidence then that the four strongest shinigami also happen to be the four oldest?

I don't think Chad's power and speed would have such a dramatic decrease that Hisagi can just win if he is on Earth. Hollows, shinigami, and quincy powers all increase in HM and SS. The rate of the increase is unknown.

It is not suggested that Hollows powers increase in HM. Chad's powers do, but then he is a Human with (what were obviously dorment) powers inside him, and this woke them up. As i've already said, there's nothing to suggest that Shinigami gain a power boost in SS. If anything QUincy achieve the best boost as the spirit worlds are made entirely of reishi and this is what the quincy utilise to do battle.

[Darkmaterials]

Kazeshini cut through Findor's maximum strength Hierro like a hot knife through butter. Now Findor may have been deluding himself that he was captain level, but he was likely at least mid-high borderline VC level. Ganbeinten was #107 Privaron if I recall correctly.

Mind explaining why?


Also, generally speaking, from 10-5 at least, the captains are all more than matches for their espada counterparts. Meaning Espada's 5-10 =/= average captain level, the levels are on a slant incline to each other.

The problem with this is that the abilities of the captains worked very well against the abilities of the espada.

If you switched them around e.g. Byakuya vs Nnoitra, Zaraki vs Szayel and Mayuri vs Zommari it could have been very different results.


Another thing I thought of... Why are the Privaron ranked in the three digits, and not given numbers #20 to #11? They are privaron, ex-espada because Aizen's Hougoukyu allowed him to create more powerful beings which rendered the old espada redundant. The Numeros however are not ranked in strength. My point is, there could be Numeros that were createdafter the Priveron, that were more powerful than them, but still not powerful enough to get into the new Espada.

True.


Ultimately my conclusion is that Ganbeinten really is not much above high VC level himself, if not on the mid-high VC borderline, and as such Findor and Ganbeinten are not as incomparable as many of you think.

Ganbenten is the 107 priveron and Findor is a numero.

Numero can very in strength from trash to above vc level.
A higher strength priveron (103) was able to give bankai Ichigo a run for his money, but the problem is that we don't know the strength gap between 103 and 107.
Being compared to Dordonni (spelling =/) makes Ganbenten seem stronger than Findor though, which is why it's easier to go for him as the stronger I guess.

In reality he could be stronger than every numero, or weaker than an average vc, we don't really know.


Chad's powers are hollow based, so the shield on his arm is almost certainly hierro of some form. Plus he had a power boost cus he was in HM (it has not been suggested that Shinigami get a boost in SS) so if he was in the real world, or SS, then his abilities would be diminished ever so slightly.

Does Chad need HM level reiatsu to maintain his powers, or was it just to unlock them in the first place?
I can't remember which.


And like I said, Hisagi cut through Findor's maxmium level Hierro with ease, using a thrown blade. Thrown blades constantly would lose the driving force behind them as soon as they leave the hand, whereas one held in the hand could constantly be applied with force, allowing Hisagi to put much more effort into it.

The difference is less than it would seem, seeing as all the attacks would have a driving force (reiatsu) that wouldn't be diminished by the blades being thrown. The attacks would still probably be stronger if he was holding the blade though.


Thus I don't think it's completely batshit insane to suggest that Hisagi can cut through Chad's shield/ arm armour in close combat. Chad comes in with a megapunch and Hisagi slices through it, with a little difficulty.

Considering Chads attacking arm released a lot of energy when it came into contact with something solid last time it would be a very bad idea for Hisagi to slice at it whilst in close combat range. Unless he wants his jaw going out the back of his head.

As for the shield arm, maybe. The problem with this though is that even if we assume Hisagi can cut through Chads shiled arm whilst in close combat Chad would get Hisagi with his left arm at the same time.


No coincidence then that the four strongest shinigami also happen to be the four oldest?

Aizen is older than Shunsui/Ukitake? =P

[Soujirou]

Sado is so worthless that people are putting him on average VC level again, as if he hadn't grown a bit since SS arc, but sadly every time he shines is quickly followed by ubber failure, it is really rare for a Shounen hero to fall so easily and without even putting up a fight, but Sado just does it all the time, making him look like pathetic to casual readers.

Too bad, his fighting style is pretty original, too bad it is never put on good use.

[Gear4]

I am leaning towards Chad. He blitzed a former Espada. Don't underestimate them they're probably stronger than Fraccions. I see Chad can keep up with Hisagi and Hisagi got nothing to tank against Chad's arm considering Allon broke his zanpaktou so easily.

[kochito22]

Does Chad need HM level reiatsu to maintain his powers, or was it just to unlock them in the first place?
I can't remember which.

Chad unlocked the true form of his right and left arms while on Earth. His powers were acting weird once he arrived in HM. Once he got used to being in HM, they returned to being the way they were on Earth.

But Ishida did say that hollows and quincy are stronger in HM. As Chad's powers are of the hollow variety, he might have gotten a boost.

[xPyrox]

The problem with this is that the abilities of the captains worked very well against the abilities of the espada.

If you switched them around e.g. Byakuya vs Nnoitra, Zaraki vs Szayel and Mayuri vs Zommari it could have been very different results.

Byakuya vs. Nnoirta would have been over even faster. All those petles slamming onto of Nnoirta would have had him imo. He can claim to be as uncutable as he likes with his hiero and crap. I somehow don't think it could stop those blades sliding up his ass and cutting him up from the inside, he's definatly not speed driven.

Zaraki vs. Syazel. Syazel couldn't seal his reiatsu like with Mayuri. and even if he did do the same to Kenpachi as he did to Renji and Uryuu, would it stop the crazy bastard from cleaving him into bits?

In fairness though, Zonmari against Mayuri would have been interesting. But I'm sure that nutter would have pulled something out like he did against Syazel.

Yep, thats my bit there.

Anywayy..
I think even however strong Chad has become, Hisagi would beat him, his zan is pretty strong, and Chad could tank about as much as he liked, I really don't think it would make much difference..

[Darkmaterials]

Byakuya vs. Nnoirta would have been over even faster. All those petles slamming onto of Nnoirta would have had him imo. He can claim to be as uncutable as he likes with his hiero and crap. I somehow don't think it could stop those blades sliding up his ass and cutting him up from the inside, he's definatly not speed driven.

If Byakuya can't damage Nnoitra with his first stage bankai it would be fairly easy for Nnoitra to counter attack, I'd imagine Byakuya would lose a lot of his speed with a load of blades flying around him.


Zaraki vs. Syazel. Syazel couldn't seal his reiatsu like with Mayuri. and even if he did do the same to Kenpachi as he did to Renji and Uryuu, would it stop the crazy bastard from cleaving him into bits?

If Szayel crushed all his organs in his hand (like he tried with Mayuri) Zaraki would go down instantly.


In fairness though, Zommari against Mayuri would have been interesting. But I'm sure that nutter would have pulled something out like he did against Syazel.

Mayuri doesn't seem to have much to defend himself against amor, even if he uses bankai, Zomari could simply take controll of that
Also remember that he wouldn't have prep time if this fight had happened.



The point I was trying to make is that you rearrange the fights and suddenly the captains don't seem so uber compared to the espada.