Naruto 444 Discussion

[Savage]

Discuss this week's early spoilers here..

[justin43]

We saw the Kyubbified Sage mode coming, but isn't kind of early for it or since Naruto knows how to go Kyubbi and has mastered sage mode it is okay to show this advancement. Either way it is a very interesting development along with Naruto being able to overpower Nagato's chakra.

[B_K_E]

Either way it is a very interesting development along with Naruto being able to overpower Nagato's chakra.

Might be because I think they're both exhausted and out of chakra, but Naruto has a whole lot of Nine Tails chakra reserve left, and Nagato doesn't, so that might be way he is overpowering his chakra.

[Infinitekaos]

It says confirmed but it sounds really fake. Couple reasons I believe that.

#1) The whole Kyuubi eyes mixing with Frog eyes. I highly doubt Naruto is going to suddenly get that ability to combine sage chakra and the Kyuubi's chakra outta thin air. Dead give away for a fanfic is Naruto controlling the Kyuubi all of a sudden.

#2) The whole "Tell me about your past" thing. That doesn't sound like Kishimoto's writing at all. Usually he doesn't give such an obvious line to spark a flashback. Usually someone just starts talking or thinking about something after someone says something to them. There is never an obvious "stay a while and listen to a story I'm about to tell you."

#3) Any spoiler out this early with exact quotes from the chapter such as "He's this close and can withstand Nagato's chakra, what a guy!" are fake. Usually early spoilers are just a broad overview of the plot of the chapter. We only get exact quotes once the spoiler pics come out with text bubbles legible in them.

Also, unless it came straight from a Japanese source this early in the week, I won't believe it. Why would it be in French first this early without Japanese script to accompany it?

[justin43]

There is a Japanese script for this spoiler, but I still have my doubts.:suspicious: In any case, if it is true, I wouldn't be too surprised about the Kyubbified sage mode. However, you do make a point. Unless the chapter is coming out early, we usually don't get direct quotes.

[yaWgnorW]

I agree about the spoiler being either false, like already said its to early for direct quotes. Also I just cant see a reason for the Sage and kyuubi eyes mixing either...at least not yet.
I also agree that its not Kishi's typical writing style, however Naruto did tell the other group last chapter he wanted to find something out, which means he'll be asking Pein something. My guess would be something along the lines of Peins past, or at least whats his reasons for wanting justice.

[xPyrox]

.. Damn. I hope not. That would really confirm Kakashi's dead.

And personally, I've been holding out that he isn't.
I mean, asuma, a lot less vital character had a much more dramatic death.
Where as someone like Kakashi dies and all we get is a simple scene with his dad.

hmm.. parts of this ring fake for me.
also; it seems he put a chakra reciver in Kakashi.
From what we've seen, they can actually paralyze the person.

[notorious UZIMAKI]

yea agreed with above - also doesn't kyuubi hinder sage mode, i mean mixing nine-tales and sage mode chakra implies some control over the kyuubi that we havent seen yet.

[justin43]

There are pics that seem to confirm the spoiler. No, this does not mean that Kakashi is died. This is shown from Pain's memories(point of view). Pain thinks Kakashi is died.

[Infinitekaos]

I'll be damned. I was proven wrong and this seems legitimate. Unless the pics are fake it does look like he's about to go Kyuubi while in Sage Mode. Hmmm, I guess I expected more from this chapter. I guess I'll have to wait and see once the whole chapter is released.

[knocky]

"now that naruto seal has been reset i beleave he can use the kyuubi chakra"

thats something i said on these fourms when naruto dad re-did the seal and i was flamed big time soo haa to all

[Infinitekaos]

I don't recall you saying that or flaming you, but if you really want a cookie for it go ahead and go get one for yourself. In fact, I just did a search and I couldn't find you saying anything about that on these forums. Maybe if you could provide a link to your post?

[justin43]

I don't recall you saying that or flaming you, but if you really want a cookie for it go ahead and go get one for yourself. In fact, I just did a search and I couldn't find you saying anything about that on these forums. Maybe if you could provide a link to your post?

I am enjoying my cookie for the spoiler and pics.:amused: Looks like Naruto has created his own eye technique with the mixture of sage and Kyubbi eyes.:sarcasm: I can't wait to see if any benefits come from this or not. I wonder will he just be more powerful while in sage mode or the time limit will seize to exist. I wonder if Kyubbi can be used to draw natural energy for Naruto since he is always standing still inside Naruto.:suspicious:

[boogiedude]

I am enjoying my cookie for the spoiler and pics.:amused: Looks like Naruto has created his own eye technique with the mixture of sage and Kyubbi eyes. I can't wait to see if any benefits come from this or not. I wonder will he just be more powerful while in sage mode or the time limit will seize to exist. I wonder if Kyubbi can be used to draw natural energy for Naruto since he is always standing still inside Naruto.:suspicious:

i hope to god you aren't seriously thinking he now has a byakugan/sharingan/rinnegan-esque technique because his eyes have a new design..

[justin43]

i hope to god you aren't seriously thinking he now has a byakugan/sharingan/rinnegan-esque technique because his eyes have a new design..

I was joking about the eye technique part.:oh: However, I am not joking about the Kyubbi sage mode having an added benefit through. Possiblities may be extended sage mode time, more power in sage mode, and immunity to genjutsu(most likely).

Back to spoiler: I wonder if Naruto is going to kill Nagato and prove Nagato right about him being unable to break the cycle of hatred.:suspicious:

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I was joking about the eye technique part.:oh: However, I am not joking about the Kyubbi sage mode having an added benefit through. Possiblities may be extended sage mode time, more power in sage mode, and immunity to genjutsu(most likely).

I'm hoping that all three actually happen. Kyuubi's chakra increasing the power of Naruto's Sage Mode is a given, though, for obvious reasons. The part about having immunity to genjutsu might not be possible at this point (you need to have full control over your Bijuu to be able to achieve this, remember?), though I am hoping that it happens, like I said.

Back to spoiler: I wonder if Naruto is going to kill Nagato and prove Nagato right about him being unable to break the cycle of hatred.:suspicious:

Agreed. I do hope Naruto kills Nagato, but I don't really agree with your reasoning.

[justin43]

The cycle of hatred starts when one kills or harm a love one or love ones. That person affected will want revenge. This person gets the revenge, but another who is angry over the person that that person kills want revenge. Possibly, even worse, just as Naruto suggested, that person think that the revenge is not quite enough and moves on to try to kill everyone associated with the person who harmed their love one. Then the survivors will want revenge. This is known as the cycle of hatred. If Naruto kills Nagato out of revenge, Naruto will just be another chain in the cycle of hatred. Naruto won't be able to break the chain if he himself is consumed by hatred enough to get revenge.

Don't get me wrong, Nagato does deserve to receive punishment for the lives he took, but it shouldn't be out of revenge.

Hope I made sense.:worried:

[BigBoogerBot]

Well maybe not immunity to genjutsu, but at least some resistance. Something naruto lacks. Sakura can dispel it, sasuke can fight it, so it would make at least some sense for naruto to have at least higher resistance. Especially since madara or whoever will likely have very powerful genjutsu.

yeah that makes sense Justin.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

You did, but can you please watch your grammar and tense usage (tense usage meaning like, say, past-tense or present-tense)? And I noticed that, on the previous page, you said "died," instead of "dead". I don't mean to be picky, but try to watch it. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included, but yours are way too frequent.

That said, yes, I do understand what you said, and I agree, but Naruto should still Nagato, at least.

Edit: One post late.

@Above post: Good point, and I agree. That really would be a good idea.

[justin43]

You did, but can you please watch your grammar and tense usage (tense usage meaning like, say, past-tense or present-tense)? And I noticed that, on the previous page, you said "died," instead of "dead". I don't mean to be picky, but try to watch it. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included, but yours are way too frequent.

That said, yes, I do understand what you said, and I agree, but Naruto should still Nagato, at least.Edit: One post late.

@Above post: Good point, and I agree. That really would be a good idea.

What are you trying to say here?:unsure:

I also like the idea of higher resistance, but not immunity to genjutsu at least until the point that he gains the full cooperation of Kyubbi.

As for Nagato, Nagato will probably either be killed by someone else or die from his body collasping. Nagato doesn't look all that well especially after losing the six paths of Pain.

As for my grammar, I will be more careful, Bankai-Ichigo.

[Infinitekaos]

Bankai-Ichigo, do we really need a grammar police in here? As long as we call tell what people are saying, we should be happy this isn't school.

Anyway, I doubt Naruto's new eyes give him any special immunity or power. It's probably just aesthetic. Maybe the crow Itachi gave Naruto has something to do with a genjutsu counter.

[xPyrox]

Maybe the crow itachi gave him allows him to deal with the kyuubi, we know the sharigan can keep it under control, so maybe thats what the crow does, it keeps the kyuubi a bit easier suppressed.

Hell knows. Seems interesting though.

[boogiedude]

i don't think naruto has gained any control over the kyubii at all. naruto wasnt able to suppress it, he didn't do anything at all. the fourth did. even madara noticed it from the trees. IMO its complete bull if naruto now has control over it thanks to his seal being repaired.

[Lnrd]

^Ever since training with Jiraiya to learn the summoning technique back in Part 1 he has been able to control some of the fox's chakra. This is also shown in his fight with Neji . We also see him using the fox's chakra to create that Rasenshuriken he used angainst Kakuzu.

Now has he mastered the Kyuubi's chakra? Not by a long shot. But he can use a little bit of it.

[xPyrox]

i don't think naruto has gained any control over the kyubii at all. naruto wasnt able to suppress it, he didn't do anything at all. the fourth did. even madara noticed it from the trees. IMO its complete bull if naruto now has control over it thanks to his seal being repaired.

Madara didn't see from the tree's.

Just for the record.

[justin43]

With the chapter out, I will give this chapter a 9 out of 10. Love the artwork in this chapter. I like a manga that is not swallow when it comes to the main character. Naruto's reaction was very realistic. I am very interested now in what will happen in the next couple of chapters.

[tbrooks]

It was pretty cool to see Naruto's sage mode eyes with his kyubbi eyes.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/06/
I guess the second great source of pain that Nagato felt is going to be how Yahiko died. I can't wait to see that in next weeks chapter.

[Tank]

Does Naruto look really fat to anybody else right here?

http://img.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000163822/01.jpg

I mean, I know it's the shadows, but still. . . it's kinda weird looking. . .

[tbrooks]

It does look kinda chubby, but it could just be that you saw Nagato's attempt of looking like Lindsay Lohan in the panel above.

[Zero-sama]

This is a 9 of 10.

Nice story and artwork in this chapter. Now Naruto can become sage mode and with the kyuubi chakra at the same time. Those eyes look awesome, the cross in those eyes, can be a new eye technique, who knows. I wanna see how the sharingan can counterattack those cross eyes, of Naruto. The story of Nagato is really dark, and I am waiting what will be Narutos answer. I hope he comes out with something new in this answer he is gonna give. An answer not even a Hokage could and can answer. Overall seeing Naruto dominating his sage mode with his Kuubi chakra was incredible. I wanna see this new power of his in a possible next battle against maybe who else, Sasuke. Now Naruto has some more tricks up his sleeve to do an epic battle against anyone specially Sasuke.

[Tank]

Those eyes look awesome, the cross in those eyes, can be a new eye technique, who knows. I wanna see how the sharingan can counterattack those cross eyes, of Naruto.

They can't be an eye technique. Do you understand what doujutsu is? The Sharingan would work just like it normally would, because Naruto's eyes don't do a single thing except show he's in Sage Mode and/or pumped with Kyuubi chakra.

The story of Nagato is really dark, and I am waiting what will be Narutos answer. I hope he comes out with something new in this answer he is gonna give. An answer not even a Hokage could and can answer. Overall seeing Naruto dominating his sage mode with his Kuubi chakra was incredible. I wanna see this new power of his in a possible next battle against maybe who else, Sasuke.

Personally I don't think Nagato's past is that dark right now. Of course, it could get a lot worse, but right now I don't think it's as bad as a Jinchuriki.

Now Naruto has some more tricks up his sleeve to do an epic battle against anyone specially Sasuke.

Naruto would royally mop the floor with Sasuke's sorry, pathetic ass right now. It wouldn't even be fair.

[chinaman1472]

I hope Pein's other pain is a lot worse, cause right now he's just another Sasuke.

[Infinitekaos]

Well, it was an ok chapter. Not the best chapter but it looked amazing this week because Bleach was so incredibly dumb. Yammy the strongest Espada...ugh. Give me a break. KT is just pulling crap outta his ass or he is high as hell writing this garbage.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Well, it was an ok chapter. Not the best chapter but it looked amazing this week because Bleach was so incredibly dumb. Yammy the strongest Espada...ugh. Give me a break. KT is just pulling crap outta his ass or he is high as hell writing this garbage.

. . . For the last time, a manga's storyline is always thought up before the author starts drawing out the pages. The Manga authors already have everything planned out in notes before they start, in other words. So stop thinking that they actually think it up on the fly every single week or month (depending on if the series in question is monthly or weekly). EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY BEEN PLANNED OUT FROM THE START! Kishimoto, Kubo, and whoever else is working on weekly manga series, only has to draw the manga page and put the dialogue in every week. The script and story of the entire magna is already planned out, like I've obviously said more than once now, in three different ways (yeah, sorry about the repetition).

Anyway, yeah, I agree that this chapter was great, and I also agree with everyone who is against the idea that the look of Naruto's eyes gives him a new power. As I said before, combining the Kyuubi's chakra with Sage Mode like this is only going to make Naruto more powerful than he would be when using either of the two separately.

What are you trying to say here?:unsure:

I did say that everyone makes mistakes, right? I'd mostly either make a spelling error, or I'd just forget to put an important word in when I'm in a hurry. There are other things, too, but these two are the only ones I'll mention. And in this case, you're looking at the second one, since I forgot to add the word "kill" in there.

I also like the idea of higher resistance, but not immunity to genjutsu at least until the point that he gains the full cooperation of Kyubbi.

Like I've said already, yes, I feel the same way. Naruto should have some resistance against genjutsu, but he shouldn't be able to cancel it until he has full control over the Kyuubi. For him, only the Kyuubi or someone else can cancel any genjutsu he gets caught under.

As for Nagato, Nagato will probably either be killed by someone else or die from his body collasping. Nagato doesn't look all that well especially after losing the six paths of Pain.

It seems like Naruto wants to kill Nagato, but really can't do it. Either that or Nagato will be killed either by Naruto or someone else, after Naruto gives his answer. But who is going to kill Konan? Or will she survive for another day?

As for my grammar, I will be more careful, Bankai-Ichigo.

Well, you heard what Infinite said. And, besides, I'm a grammar freak, so don't worry about it.

^Ever since training with Jiraiya to learn the summoning technique back in Part 1 he has been able to control some of the fox's chakra. This is also shown in his fight with Neji . We also see him using the fox's chakra to create that Rasenshuriken he used angainst Kakuzu.

Now has he mastered the Kyuubi's chakra? Not by a long shot. But he can use a little bit of it.

QFT. I mean, who doesn't remember that stuff? Any Naruto fan should remember.

@Tank: QFT dude, especially on what you said at the end there. I, too, say that Naruto will kick Sasuke's sorry ass all the way over to Saturn.

[Ryuksgelus]

More pretentious badguy drivel.

Pein is just an uninteresting Gaara. Yeah his parents died attacking armed soldiers just looking for supplies...real fucking smart. Next Pein likely explains how Yahiko died which really isn't any different than both of Kakashi's friends getting killed.

Seriously Orochimaru&Itachi pre-The Joy MGS3 backstory copy>>>Pein&Madara as villains. Take the closet psycho and unapologetic selfish prick with a pinch of mad scientist villians over self-righteous emo anti-war punk and generic rule the world because I'm a douche villain any day.

[notorious UZIMAKI]

chapter was ok, not great. the combo eyes were aesthetically dope, but will see what this actually implies - agree with above likely not new techniques but increased speed/power in sage mode, possibly enhancement of current techniques.

also i couldn't care less about nagato's backstory. we've seen countless tragic backstories and the characters' response to them. the only interesting thing is if it will affect naruto's response to him. was kind of hoping naruto would have formulated somewhat his 'answer' in this chapter given the title. ah patience.

[Vergil]

9/10 compared to bleach
Eyes were great but Nagato is just a fail...

[B_K_E]

That blows that Nagato's parents were killed by Leaf-Ninjas. I wonder what Naruto's feelings toward that are going to be.

[Infinitekaos]

That blows that Nagato's parents were killed by Leaf-Ninjas. I wonder what Naruto's feelings toward that are going to be.

Who cares? Nagato's Pain is nothing so far compared to Naruto's (or hell, even Sasuke's). Not only was he an orphan shunned by the entire village and he didn't even HAVE parents to begin with, but he has seen his only father figures killed as well. Even Sasuke's parents were killed in front of him by his OWN BROTHER. Nagato's past seems relatively calm.

And now Nagato is spouting about revenge doesn't solve anything and blah blah blah. Isn't that what Nagato is doing to Konoha? Yea he wants Naruto, but he is also exacting his revenge for Konoha ninja killing his parents. Not to mention it was Nagato's parents who attacked the Konoha ninja. They could have just thrown up their arms and claimed that they weren't enemies and the Konoha ninja probably would have attacked. But when you charge at ninjas screaming like a fanatic, they are going to defend themselves.

. . . For the last time, a manga's storyline is always thought up before the author starts drawing out the pages. The Manga authors already have everything planned out in notes before they start, in other words. So stop thinking that they actually think it up on the fly every single week or month (depending on if the series in question is monthly or weekly). EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY BEEN PLANNED OUT FROM THE START! Kishimoto, Kubo, and whoever else is working on weekly manga series, only has to draw the manga page and put the dialogue in every week. The script and story of the entire magna is already planned out, like I've obviously said more than once now, in three different ways (yeah, sorry about the repetition).

Bankai-Ichigo, you need to calm down a bit and stop taking everything everyone says literally. I am well aware that authors just don't go into each week thinking of a story line. However, when authors come up with dribble like that week in and week out, they are obviously not planning very well. So it SEEMS like they make it up on the spot each week due to poor story planning. There is absolutely no reason that Yammy has to be the strongest Espada. Especially not after Ichigo, Yoruichi and Urahara all each toyed around with him like he was a simple hollow back when the Arrancar were first introduced. My comment was merely a comment that was criticizing the current direction Bleach has been taking lately.

So please, for the last time, don't take everything everyone says here word for word. Stop bashing people for grammar, spelling and sarcastic comments posted here. Stop acting like you're the only person in here who knows how stories or manga are made.

[octocheese]

This chapter was okay. I wouldn't have like to seen Naruto rip Pain to pieces but this seems to fit Naruto's maturing personality. It'll be interesting to hear the "other" source of his pain.

[crisis point]

First - Eyes look awesome! Dunno about you guys but I have been waiting for this since he first had the toad eyes, epic! I am firmly of the belief they are just aesthetic - theres no REASON why he should suddenly have eye techniques.

Second - I don't think he's gained any extra conrol over the kyuubi in this short time, he just sometimes gets the fox eyes when his emotions flare, thats all.

Third - I've said for a while now about his resistance to genjutsu, not because of the kyuubi but because he has foreign chakra (nature) coming into his body, which breaks genjutsu, so he doesn't need to rely on controlling his biiju to break genjutsu.

Fourth - everyones talking about nagato's pain being relatively tame - you're comparing to other horrific things. He watched his parents die in front of his eyes, if you heard that had happened to someone you knew you would find it hard to imagine what they'd go through, its realistic.

Fifth - Overall I think it was a real good chapter, roll on 445.

[Zero-sama]

1-They can't be an eye technique. Do you understand what doujutsu is? The Sharingan would work just like it normally would, because Naruto's eyes don't do a single thing except show he's in Sage Mode and/or pumped with Kyuubi chakra.



2-Personally I don't think Nagato's past is that dark right now. Of course, it could get a lot worse, but right now I don't think it's as bad as a Jinchuriki.



3-Naruto would royally mop the floor with Sasuke's sorry, pathetic ass right now. It wouldn't even be fair.

1-Of course I know what Doujutsu is and let me say it clear, I never stated that was a new eye technique, I only said, Who Knows, but then again I only said that because we saw that Sasuke has the star of David, so why not Naruto have the crucifix of Jesus. But seriously of course Naruto is not a Doujutsu user. I only want to see him again but this time fighting in sage mode while controlling the Kyuubi's chakra, that's all.

2- Well a Jinchuriki's past is dark, but to have seen your parents get killed in front of you that is dark. example: Batman, he is a good guy, yet he has a dark life. Imagine Pain, who is a villain and a bad guy.

3- Believe me I have been waiting for that day to come, hope it comes soon or next.

[Tank]

Well a Jinchuriki's past is dark, but to have seen your parents get killed in front of you that is dark. example: Batman, he is a good guy, yet he has a dark life. Imagine Pain, who is a villain and a bad guy.

Right now Pein's past isn't even as dark as Sasuke's, if you forget about the "always in danger" crap, which didn't seem that bad anyways seeing as how they went right up to some Leaf ninja and demanded food. His pain isn't even close to how hard any Jinchuriki's life is right now. I hope Naruto backhands him and tells him to quit his bitching.

[Zero-sama]

Right now Pein's past isn't even as dark as Sasuke's, if you forget about the "always in danger" crap, which didn't seem that bad anyways seeing as how they went right up to some Leaf ninja and demanded food. His pain isn't even close to how hard any Jinchuriki's life is right now. I hope Naruto backhands him and tells him to quit his bitching.


True, Pain's past compared to Sasuke's past is like comparing White and Black. Sasuke's past is really something, that is the only thing I say Sasuke has dark and cool in his story, is his past, aside from that nothing more, ohh and the fact that he dominated the sharingan was nice too, with out having MS, he used the sharingan against Itachi like if he had MS too. Aside from that Sasuke's doom approaches soon.

[Houzukimaru]

Anyone else think Nagato's parents are retarded for attacking Ninjas just because they noticed them when they showed absolutely no intent to harm them and only killed them because they were attacked and believed it was enemy ninja

They even felt bad about it afterwards when they realized they were civilians, seriously Nagato's parents deserved to die for that dumass move

[Hokage_Dobby]

Anyone else think Nagato's parents are retarded for attacking Ninjas just because they noticed them when they showed absolutely no intent to harm them and only killed them because they were attacked and believed it was enemy ninja

They even felt bad about it afterwards when they realized they were civilians, seriously Nagato's parents deserved to die for that dumass move

Hit the nail on the head.

[notorious UZIMAKI]

^hah, that's actually kinda funny. yeah his past is tragic, hopefully won't spend much more flashback time crying about it though.

Nagato's reaction and vow to bring peace through 'pain' is interesting. its remininscent of Qin Shi Huang (the historical emperor of china that the character in jet li's 'Hero' was based on) did with China. he unified the country, built the great wall, created a nationwide road system, and made massive economic and political reforms... but his unification was done by warring with all of the smaller provinces and killing any opposition. So was China better off before or after his 'unification'. hard to say, his legacy is still debated.

anyway - nagato's believes peace can only be brokered by uniting all of the countries through power and fear, likely based on his pessimistic view of human nature. his parents getting murdered in front of him probably had a little to do with this pessimism. either way at least he has an answer, although f'ed up as it may be. hopefully naruto and jaraiya's optimism and belief in human nature and connection can provide an alternate answer for a new peace should be interesting.

[B_K_E]

Don't you just hate it when people talk about Sasuke's "dark past." I don't really care that much for Sasuke, in fact in my opinion I think he brings the show down. The show is called Naruto, not Sasuke so I think the maker of this needs to get him killed or something, he's been ticking me off from the beginning of this show.

[arishkegal]

Right now Pein's past isn't even as dark as Sasuke's, if you forget about the "always in danger" crap, which didn't seem that bad anyways seeing as how they went right up to some Leaf ninja and demanded food. His pain isn't even close to how hard any Jinchuriki's life is right now. I hope Naruto backhands him and tells him to quit his bitching.

I hope Naruto backslaps him as well...Nagato has got to be dumb, Jiraiya came from the leaf village and taught him, and just because his parents made a stupid decision which results in their deaths he destroys the Konoha. Oh well, I guess that what makes for a good story, I wonder what the second reason for pain is. I rated this a 9/10, I was happy for good writing after reading the fiasco of a bleach chapter this week ....Kubo, let me know what you're smoking so I can get some, lol:gj:

[justin43]

Right now Pein's past isn't even as dark as Sasuke's, if you forget about the "always in danger" crap, which didn't seem that bad anyways seeing as how they went right up to some Leaf ninja and demanded food. His pain isn't even close to how hard any Jinchuriki's life is right now. I hope Naruto backhands him and tells him to quit his bitching.

True, at least with Sasuke's past, his own brother killed his parents and his entire clan and traumatized him with a MS. Nagato's parents should have left the war zone before the Konoha ninjas even came. Second, why in the heck did Nagato's parents ran up on Konoha ninja in the dark. They should have known that they would defend themselves. If they were smart, they should have just stayed hidden if they didn't know if Konoha ninja would kill civilians.

*Waiting for the day that Sasuke hears about Naruto and try to go after him*:bigsmile: :popcorn:

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Who cares? Nagato's Pain is nothing so far compared to Naruto's (or hell, even Sasuke's). Not only was he an orphan shunned by the entire village and he didn't even HAVE parents to begin with, but he has seen his only father figures killed as well. Even Sasuke's parents were killed in front of him by his OWN BROTHER. Nagato's past seems relatively calm.

And now Nagato is spouting about revenge doesn't solve anything and blah blah blah. Isn't that what Nagato is doing to Konoha? Yea he wants Naruto, but he is also exacting his revenge for Konoha ninja killing his parents. Not to mention it was Nagato's parents who attacked the Konoha ninja. They could have just thrown up their arms and claimed that they weren't enemies and the Konoha ninja probably would have attacked. But when you charge at ninjas screaming like a fanatic, they are going to defend themselves.

QFT. Couldn't have said it better myself.

And, yeah, like someone else said sometime after this post I quoted, I too was wondering why Nagato got pissed off on Leaf ninjas when Jiraiya, his sensei, was also a Leaf ninja, and also was someone who cared for him so damn much.

Bankai-Ichigo, you need to calm down a bit and stop taking everything everyone says literally. I am well aware that authors just don't go into each week thinking of a story line. However, when authors come up with dribble like that week in and week out, they are obviously not planning very well. So it SEEMS like they make it up on the spot each week due to poor story planning. There is absolutely no reason that Yammy has to be the strongest Espada. Especially not after Ichigo, Yoruichi and Urahara all each toyed around with him like he was a simple hollow back when the Arrancar were first introduced. My comment was merely a comment that was criticizing the current direction Bleach has been taking lately.

So please, for the last time, don't take everything everyone says here word for word. Stop bashing people for grammar, spelling and sarcastic comments posted here. Stop acting like you're the only person in here who knows how stories or manga are made.

I'll stand and take everything you said because it's all true and I won't talk back about it, but I will address that bold-faced part: Remember that at that time, we were all wondering what Yammi's true power is since he hadn't gotten the chance to release yet. An Arrancar's true power isn't brought out until he/she releases his/her Zanpakutou. So just because Yammi was weak before he even released, doesn't mean he's also has to be the weakest Espada after he releases. Aizen probably made him the number 10 Espada and then Zero Espada secretly in order to throw Soul Society off. Quite frankly, if that's the case, then it worked.

Yammi's release also makes him a lot more powerful, so it's kind of logical that he'd be the strongest Espada once he released, IMO. If you think of it in terms of being in a state of true power vs. being in a state in which your power is being held back, then it's not that ridiculous.

^hah, that's actually kinda funny. yeah his past is tragic, hopefully won't spend much more flashback time crying about it though.

Nagato's reaction and vow to bring peace through 'pain' is interesting. its remininscent of Qin Shi Huang (the historical emperor of china that the character in jet li's 'Hero' was based on) did with China. he unified the country, built the great wall, created a nationwide road system, and made massive economic and political reforms... but his unification was done by warring with all of the smaller provinces and killing any opposition. So was China better off before or after his 'unification'. hard to say, his legacy is still debated.

anyway - nagato's believes peace can only be brokered by uniting all of the countries through power and fear, likely based on his pessimistic view of human nature. his parents getting murdered in front of him probably had a little to do with this pessimism. either way at least he has an answer, although f'ed up as it may be. hopefully naruto and jaraiya's optimism and belief in human nature and connection can provide an alternate answer for a new peace should be interesting.

Agreed completely, and I like how you used a Chinese reference to compare Nagato to.

And, yeah, I too can't wait for Naruto's answer, and I also do hope that Naruto can shut Nagato up and make him see the error of his ways.

[Infinitekaos]

I was thinking about something when it came to Jiraiya training Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan. First, I have always wondered why Jiraiya never even thought to teach Naruto about elemental chakra or any other jutsus. I realize that he was teaching Naruto the foundation of all his training, not only strengthening his stamina but taijutsu, genjutsu defense, etc. But don't you think some hand seal training and elemental training would have been prudent? Naruto wasn't exactly the crappiest ninja when he went off for the 2.5 year time skip, surely he was at a decent level already.

This leads me to my point. When Jiraiya trained Yahiko and Nagato for 3 years (approximately the same time Jiraiya trained Naruto), Yahiko could use Suiton jutsus and Nagato Fuuton jutsus. These kids knew 0 about being a ninja at the start of the 3 years. Surely Naruto could have learned some elemental chakra recomposition in 2.5 years.

Just a thought that's been bothering me.

[Az00123]

Neither of them have a huge bijuu who wants to take over their body inside of them?

[Savage]

What does that have to do with anything?

[crisis point]

I was thinking about something when it came to Jiraiya training Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan. First, I have always wondered why Jiraiya never even thought to teach Naruto about elemental chakra or any other jutsus. I realize that he was teaching Naruto the foundation of all his training, not only strengthening his stamina but taijutsu, genjutsu defense, etc. But don't you think some hand seal training and elemental training would have been prudent? Naruto wasn't exactly the crappiest ninja when he went off for the 2.5 year time skip, surely he was at a decent level already.

This leads me to my point. When Jiraiya trained Yahiko and Nagato for 3 years (approximately the same time Jiraiya trained Naruto), Yahiko could use Suiton jutsus and Nagato Fuuton jutsus. These kids knew 0 about being a ninja at the start of the 3 years. Surely Naruto could have learned some elemental chakra recomposition in 2.5 years.

Just a thought that's been bothering me.

In fairness Naruto supposedly knows 3 of the fourths jutsu and some of jirayas if the interview with kishi last year is to believed, and we still haven't seen that surface so I believe Jiraya did teach him technique stuff whilst they were away.

Although I agree with you the advancement in the 3 years does seem small, especially considering how much more powerful he's become in the relatively short time since returning. I just keep thinking about how it would have went if kakashi had told them about the 1000x exp boost clone training BEFORE they had left. Could you IMAGINE how strong he'd be.... thats 3000 years worth of training.

[chinaman1472]

Although I agree with you the advancement in the 3 years does seem small, especially considering how much more powerful he's become in the relatively short time since returning. I just keep thinking about how it would have went if kakashi had told them about the 1000x exp boost clone training BEFORE they had left. Could you IMAGINE how strong he'd be.... thats 3000 years worth of training.

Agreed

I think though that the 3 years was spent trying to try to tame the Kyuubi and/or chakra control (breaking out of genjutsu). Though, only getting to 3 tails is pretty weak.

[crisis point]

Agreed

I think though that the 3 years was spent trying to try to tame the Kyuubi and/or chakra control (breaking out of genjutsu). Though, only getting to 3 tails is pretty weak.

And then the first shippuuden arc he ends up losing it and Yamato tells him to rely on his own power, essentially making Jirayas training to draw out as much fox chakra as possible worthless. Tad annoying but hard to fault how strong he is now. I like to think that his job of maturing Naruto was a big one and is the main reason Naruto could do the Sage training so quickly.

[AzureFeatherfly]

Regarding Nagato:

Looks like I will be playing the Devil's Advocate.

1. Why are there assumptions and conclusions being drawn from half a chapter of Nagato's past from his perspective? We will always be biased on such subjective topics, but we should at least be conscious of that. It seems many posts are just gagging to place judgement on Nagato just because he destroyed the main character's village. We have all been waiting for his reasons and now when he has barely even started that, all this starts popping up. Is it natural to base opinions off of half chapter of an explanation that is suppose to last some 5-6 chapters?

2. "Why did Nagato parents the rush Konoha ninjas? If they raised their hands, then they would fine."

Hmm, they were hiding from something or someone. Who was it they were hiding from and why? What reason do Nagato and his family have to trust them? Because of Sandaime's preach of peace? Because the main character is from Konoha? As far they were concerned they gonna get killed if discovered. I wonder what is it that made them think that way?

3. "Nagato's pain is nothing compared to Naruto or Sasuke."

We have received hundreds of pages of Naruto and Sasuke. We have received at most three dozens of pages on Nagato. Someone please explain to me how that conclusion came to be when comparing hundreds of pages to three dozens of pages.If I remember correctly Naruto and Sasuke had food, water, and shelter provided to them, while Nagato and his two buddies had to find everything for themselves in a warzone.

Nagato's world was his parents, while Sasuke's was his parents and bother. I do not understand why Nagato should feel any less pain for someone shattering his world compared to Sasuke. Naruto on the other did not start off with a world, he built his own.

"If you do not share someone's pain, you will never understand them."

Nagato/Pain

Can anyone here say that they are able to share their (Naruto, Sasuke, Nagato) pain?

[crisis point]

Regarding Nagato:

Looks like I will be playing the Devil's Advocate.

1. Why are there assumptions and conclusions being drawn from half a chapter of Nagato's past from his perspective? We will always be biased on such subjective topics, but we should at least be conscious of that. It seems many posts are just gagging to place judgement on Nagato just because he destroyed the main character's village. We have all been waiting for his reasons and now when he has barely even started that, all this starts popping up. Is it natural to base opinions off of half chapter of an explanation that is suppose to last some 5-6 chapters?

2. "Why did Nagato parents the rush Konoha ninjas? If they raised their hands, then they would fine."

Hmm, they were hiding from something or someone. Who was it they were hiding from and why? What reason do Nagato and his family have to trust them? Because of Sandaime's preach of peace? Because the main character is from Konoha? As far they were concerned they gonna get killed if discovered. I wonder what is it that made them think that way?

3. "Nagato's pain is nothing compared to Naruto or Sasuke."

We have received hundreds of pages of Naruto and Sasuke. We have received at most three dozens of pages on Nagato. Someone please explain to me how that conclusion came to be when comparing hundreds of pages to three dozens of pages.If I remember correctly Naruto and Sasuke had food, water, and shelter provided to them, while Nagato and his two buddies had to find everything for themselves in a warzone.

Nagato's world was his parents, while Sasuke's was his parents and bother. I do not understand why Nagato should feel any less pain for someone shattering his world compared to Sasuke. Naruto on the other did not start off with a world, he built his own.

"If you do not share someone's pain, you will never understand them."

Nagato/Pain

Can anyone here say that they are able to share their (Naruto, Sasuke, Nagato) pain?

Thank you! I must say QFT. You've really hit this one spot on, and you people should +rep this man!

People are complaining he shouldn't have turned out the way he did because his childhood wasn't as bad as Naruto's or Sasuke's? WHAT? His parents died in front of his eyes and he grew up in a warzone, plus we barely know a fraction of the story yet.

Also kudos on the text in blue, very eloquently put.

[B_K_E]

Neither of them have a huge bijuu who wants to take over their body inside of them?

That would be able to make Naruto learn something faster than anyone, since he's able to use his chakra and the Kyuubi's chakra.

[chinaman1472]

@ Azure

I think Negato's past, so far, is just a very cliche back story. It's uninteresting, it's rehashed, and unless his other pain really connects to it in someway, that part of his past just doesn't feel up to par with what Kishimoto has done with others. It was a very simplistic, time of war, misunderstood death.

Sasuke lost his parents (and clan) due to his own brother. Gaara's basically killed his own father IIRC. Negato's loss seems so, boring.

[AzureFeatherfly]

@ Azure

I think Negato's past, so far, is just a very cliche back story. It's uninteresting, it's rehashed, and unless his other pain really connects to it in someway, that part of his past just doesn't feel up to par with what Kishimoto has done with others. It was a very simplistic, time of war, misunderstood death.

"So far", those two words means that you got my point, patience. Let Kishimoto finish his story before we make a judgement. I think the most common tragedies and pains in everyday life can be most surprising. Many people brush them aside or forget them too easily because they occur as a daily occurence, however because this tendency of "who cares", we really do not take the time to understand those who experience these pains and tragedies.

Being in a First World Country, many people around me take life for granted when they have never experienced everything that happens in the Middle East and Africa. I am not from neither of those regions and I can never understand the experience of suicide bombings, but I think those people need to be understood rather than the news having simple number on the screen.

"If you do not share someone's pain, you will never understand them."

Too many posts have proven this quote to be true. Understanding may never come but at least there could some objectivity that looks through every perspective.

P.S. I think that Kishimoto might just make his pain very simple so that both the characters and readers can actually learn to understand rather than brush him off.

[chinaman1472]

But, this is a discussion on Chapter 444. And that is what Kishimoto wrote for this chapter. Regardless of how it finishes, we can still make judgments on what he's presented us. We're picking apart what Kishimoto has written. That's all. He's left a lot of openings and ways to finish it off, which is good. And I hope it ends up well.

If I'm watching a TV series, am I not allowed to judge and criticize each episode as it airs? Where does it say that I must judge the entire series as a whole?

[AzureFeatherfly]

But, this is a discussion on Chapter 444. And that is what Kishimoto wrote for this chapter. Regardless of how it finishes, we can still make judgments on what he's presented us. We're picking apart what Kishimoto has written. That's all. He's left a lot of openings and ways to finish it off, which is good. And I hope it ends up well.

If I'm watching a TV series, am I not allowed to judge and criticize each episode as it airs? Where does it say that I must judge the entire series as a whole?

I never said what you can and cannot do. I have merely presented my perspective of how to look at the situation. Whether you agree or not is your choice. However I do not like to flop my opinions chapter by chapter, makes me very uncomfortable.

[chinaman1472]

Fair enough. I was just (hopefully) explaining the perspectives of how (most) people look at the situation.

[Infinitekaos]

FYI, Chinaman, Gaara did not kill his father, he killed his Uncle. His father was the 4th Kazekage and was killed and impersonated by Orochimaru. His Uncle (Brother of his mother) was sent to assasinate Gaara and Gaara killed him.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see where Kishi is planning to go with this development. Only he knows and we can only speculate. And despite our lucky guesses sometimes, we are usually wrong.

[Tank]

FYI, Chinaman, Gaara did not kill his father, he killed his Uncle. His father was the 4th Kazekage and was killed and impersonated by Orochimaru. His Uncle (Brother of his mother) was sent to assasinate Gaara and Gaara killed him.

:weird: Wait a minute. . . that way a guy?! No fucking way. I could've sworn that was Gaara's aunt, not uncle.

[AzureFeatherfly]

@Tank, Yashamaru was definitely male.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Yashamaru

[Lnrd]

Naw Tank, that was his uncle.

[B_K_E]

Wow, I thought that was a chick as well. Didn't know that was his uncle lol.

[crisis point]

yep, was very effeminate but a dude. Speaking of Gaara we haven't seen him in some time, anyone think theres a possibility he shows up soon? I mean the raikage sent word to konoha for a meating of the Kage's and with Danzou still unaccounted for it may be an apt time for his return


And hurry up with Nagato and get back to whether Kakashi will pull through!!!

[B_K_E]

I thought they were already positive that Kakashi is dead? Earlier when Naruto could sense the chakra he said that he could sense Sakura's somewhere (or someone else don't remember) then he said he couldn't feel Kakashi's and Tsunade looked at the floor and Naruto said "I understand."

[Bankai - Ichigo]

It's true that Kakashi was already "sort of" confirmed dead by us readers, and the manga also seems to have confirmed it already, but it didn't specifically say that he could sense Sakura's chakra--it said he could sense the chakra of everyone in the village except Kakashi.

And, yeah, Yashamaru was definitely male.

@Crisis Point: Yeah, I was also wondering about Gaara and everything you mentioned.

[knocky]

thelast 10 chaptors has just been crazy i am getting to the point where i just want to see if Kakashi is still alive anything will do. one word a pic something will do.

[xPyrox]

Kakashi used all of his chakra through, it even said he had used all of his chakra by him when he used the mangekyo sharigan.

It's been said he's dead but if a character like him were to die, think of the send off Asuma got, he'd get something much like that imo.

He would have to die against a very strong opponent, not someone who wasn't even the real pain or the strongest body.

[B_K_E]

He would have to die against a very strong opponent, not someone who wasn't even the real pain or the strongest body.

Tell me if I got what you said wrong or something but, don't forget that Pain owned Jaraiya as well and i'm pretty sure he could kill Kakashi, since Kakashi is definitely weaker than Jaraiya. I'm sure that Tsunade would've been killed by the Pains as well, if Naruto hadn't shown up in Sage mode.

[Infinitekaos]

Tell me if I got what you said wrong or something but, don't forget that Pain owned Jaraiya as well and i'm pretty sure he could kill Kakashi, since Kakashi is definitely weaker than Jaraiya. I'm sure that Tsunade would've been killed by the Pains as well, if Naruto hadn't shown up in Sage mode.

Yup, and let's not forget he was fighting against 2 bodies really. One of which was Pain's strongest body and still managed to almost kill both of them with the help of Chouji and his dad. I think Kakashi did a pretty good job overall.

[notorious UZIMAKI]

well, not sure if Kakashi is definitely weaker than Jaraiya, but probably. either way i'm glad he died - dont get me wrong, he was by far my favorite character. he went out like a hero, defending his village against overwhelming odds. the thing that makes me think he died is that naruto will likely be the next hokage given the pace of the manga. if kakashi doesnt die - he IS the next hokage, that was said before. so it kind of makes sense plot wise.

that being said - if he comes back i'd be happy as hell, he is o-g to the fullest.