Obama Speech to Muslim World

[TW501]

President Barack Obama will be making a speech in Cairo, Egypt, in which he will reach out to the Muslim world in hopes of improving relations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090531/ts_nm/us_obama_egypt_speech
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/04/obama-plans-speech-in-isl_n_148438.html
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=195463

Any thoughts on this?

[MMZ]

Many thoughts, but I don't care for starting another flame war now. Let's just say that sudden happy chats with some terrorist connections while shunning our actual close ally in the middle east doesn't sit well with me.

[BalrogLord]

Yes because opening up a dialogue with an enemy in order to reason with them (thereby removing them as enemies) is an illogical proposition. We should continue these hostilities in the hopes of one day drowning them in animosity.

[Fatstogey]

IDK. Im torn.

I think we should be more focused on solving our own problems at home rather than appeasing Islam. Also, although you could consider it to be mean, fact is that when an alternate means of energy is found(well actually odds are theyve found and produced one but the oil companies own it and they wont start milking that until the oil runs dry) the middle east will hold no relevance to the world whatsoever. They will provide absolutely nothing to the rest of the world. They have no natural resources other than oil. Once thats gone they arent gonna have anything. LOL they hate us now and all the money they have is money weve provided to them by buying their oil. Geez they are really gonna hate us when the oil is gone.

So personally i think we should severely cut back on foreign affairs. We need to get back to sound money and fix our own problems. We should not even be worried in the least what muslims think of us. Our fucking economy is collapsing big time. And Obama is making bad decision after bad decision. Total collapse is immanent, and appearing just over the horizon.

Yes im sorry for you foolish Obama lovers. He is already proving to be Bush x 2. Hes already fucking up big time and making mistakes we will pay for, for YEARS to come. Good lord dont elect this mofo next term just because hes a good orator. He is George bush in a different and shinier wrapper. Wake the fuck up and stop listening to his words and look at what hes doing. WE HAVE JUST BEEN OVER THIS THE LAST 8 YEARS AND YALL ARE ALREADY BLINDLY FOLLOWING SOMEONE ELSE. Fucks sake, wake the fuck up.

So personally now is a time to say "fuck the rest of the world." Keep your ass at home and get your own house in order. Then worry about foreign relations. Get our troops out of the middle east. Cut foreign spending to 0. Get the fuck outta the UN(we pay for the majority of that). And get your ass over here. And rather than listen to Timothy Geitner, start talking to some economist. Obama is not an economist. HE NEEDS TO BE! And our next president also needs to be. Obama is not. So basically he goes along with whatever his cabinet says, with whatever Tim Geitner says.

WRONG MOVE.

Get your ass back in the oval office and focus on our real problems.

[btill9000]

^Unfortunately, we have to deal with the middle east until we get a legit new form of energy. At one point we probably could've left them alone and they probably would've left us alone in return. Unfortunately, Bush pissed them off so bad that us suddenly deciding to go back home wouldn't help anything. Leaving the UN would also definitely be a very bad idea ATM.


As far as the main topic goes. I am okay with him talking to them as long as he doesn't do anymore stupid stuff like bowing.

[Yadomaru]

btill is right. Because unlike, for example, France, which gets something like three quarters of its energy from nuclear power, we're still totally dependent on petroleum(Don't quite remember who uses the most petroleum, but it's either us or China), so OPEC's got us by the balls, which means the Middle East is VERY MUCH our problem.

I also agree with BalrogLord that if there's even the slightest chance we could peacefully reach some kind of understanding with those folks, we should take it.

[arthur11]

Hes trying to tie up the left over loose ends, easiest first i.e. middle-east, negotiation, negotiation, negotiation...sort out some peace, get worldwide accord and recognisition as a opposite for bush and pioneer for world change...blahblah, then hopefully after this little moral/national pride booster he'll be able to tie up the second loose end, the economy in a more pleasent enviroment and if he fucks up at least he saved the world from 'terrorism'.

In all honesty it makes sense that hes trying to assure some healthy foriegn ties in the middle ground seeing as the exporters of the far east seem abit beyond his grasp to shmooze completely.

[dyne]

btill is right. Because unlike, for example, France, which gets something like three quarters of its energy from nuclear power, we're still totally dependent on petroleum(Don't quite remember who uses the most petroleum, but it's either us or China), so OPEC's got us by the balls, which means the Middle East is VERY MUCH our problem.

I also agree with BalrogLord that if there's even the slightest chance we could peacefully reach some kind of understanding with those folks, we should take it.


USA uses more petroleum than the next top5 big countries combined. which is china,india,russia and I dont remember the others but yea usa uses WAY more than anyone else. all I know is canada uses the most hydroelectricity in the world but we also can create the most, so who cares. and we can create the most efficient wind turbines on lake ontario, i beleive it is, yet the government has been refusing to let anyone build one for the last 10 years. which is ridiculous even now its still been denied.

[Rutabeggar]

I don't often visit the debate section of the forums simply because I'm quite passionate about certain things and have come to find that I think differently than a lot of people (not in intelligence level, but on a value level) but this topic has piqued my interest.

Let's understand first that Obama is kissing every ass and every baby as possible to make sure he's seen as the legit answer to our problems. We all know the man can speak, but he really hasn't done anything except overreach with the long arm of government. Talking to the Islamic community won't solve anything. They have hated our way of life long before GW came along. There isn't a peaceful solution with these people. Now, I will be the first to admit that there are different Islamic traditions, but it's the extremists he's really trying to reach out to. I'll say it again, there isn't a peaceful solution. Not because we don't desire it, but because they don't desire it. Our way of life to them is offensive and seen as a scourge on the Earth. Not just the American way of life, but the entire western world's way of life simply isn't compatible with Islam. Now, I'm speaking in the direction of the extremists as I mentioned above, and truly, they are the ones who dictate the actions and reactions of the rest of the world. Unfortunately, Islam is something that cannot be stopped. I recently did a report on an article (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760) on the spread of Islam, it's rather long, but I encourage you to read it.

[dyne]

I don't often visit the debate section of the forums simply because I'm quite passionate about certain things and have come to find that I think differently than a lot of people (not in intelligence level, but on a value level) but this topic has piqued my interest.

Let's understand first that Obama is kissing every ass and every baby as possible to make sure he's seen as the legit answer to our problems. We all know the man can speak, but he really hasn't done anything except overreach with the long arm of government. Talking to the Islamic community won't solve anything. They have hated our way of life long before GW came along. There isn't a peaceful solution with these people. Now, I will be the first to admit that there are different Islamic traditions, but it's the extremists he's really trying to reach out to. I'll say it again, there isn't a peaceful solution. Not because we don't desire it, but because they don't desire it. Our way of life to them is offensive and seen as a scourge on the Earth. Not just the American way of life, but the entire western world's way of life simply isn't compatible with Islam. Now, I'm speaking in the direction of the extremists as I mentioned above, and truly, they are the ones who dictate the actions and reactions of the rest of the world. Unfortunately, Islam is something that cannot be stopped. I recently did a report on an article (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760) on the spread of Islam, it's rather long, but I encourage you to read it.

You and everyone else that thinks like you are BIGGEST problem with this issue. You think every single Islamic person wants to cut off an Americans head when in reality its a relatively small group compared to the mass population of Islamic people. In fact the "American" (I put this in quotations because its really not the American way its FREE worlds way) way of life is taking over in many parts of the middle east and it's getting very popular.

These people are not just targeting Americans they're killing their own people.
Obama going over and speaking to Muslims can do no harm, it would just show that Americans are not specifically targetting Muslims. Which in turn can help fight terrorism by getting on the side of the people who want change or at least don't want to kill/murder.

It's a very smart thing to do, but a very difficult thing to do and incredibly unlikely it will do anything. Does that mean nothing should be done? No, you keep talking to these people and not just invading their countries blowing shit up as you please. Make them understand what your doing etc..

come on don't be so fucking stupid. Seriously you're moron.

[Rutabeggar]

You and everyone else that thinks like you are BIGGEST problem with this issue. You think every single Islamic person wants to cut off an Americans head when in reality its a relatively small group compared to the mass population of Islamic people. In fact the "American" (I put this in quotations because its really not the American way its FREE worlds way) way of life is taking over in many parts of the middle east and it's getting very popular.

These people are not just targeting Americans they're killing their own people.
Obama going over and speaking to Muslims can do no harm, it would just show that Americans are not specifically targetting Muslims. Which in turn can help fight terrorism by getting on the side of the people who want change or at least don't want to kill/murder.

It's a very smart thing to do, but a very difficult thing to do and incredibly unlikely it will do anything. Does that mean nothing should be done? No, you keep talking to these people and not just invading their countries blowing shit up as you please. Make them understand what your doing etc..

come on don't be so fucking stupid. Seriously you're moron.

Did you not read the part where I said I was directing my words towards the extremists? How about the part where I said there are different traditions in the Islamic faith and that the extremists are the problem and are what dictate the reactions and actions of everyone else. While I understand your passion, there wasn't any real need to be so openly negative and close minded. I'm sure you didn't read the article either. That's ok though. It's people like you who don't allow for other people to have a point of view contradictory to yours and that of Mr. Obama. Really? I thought this was an open discussion...clearly I was mistaken. Honestly, I agree with some of the other people here when they say we should be securing ourselves before sticking our hand in to the bear trap and hoping to establish lines of communication with the Islamic community.

[seiftis]

But, after framing the 2004 presidential election as a referendum on the right to rape, Miss Diaz might be interested to know that men enjoy that right under many Islamic legal codes around the world.
(above is a quote from the article Rutabeggar posted).

And what do you mean with the one that I quote (specifically the so-called 'legal codes')?

[ismey]

I don't often visit the debate section of the forums simply because I'm quite passionate about certain things and have come to find that I think differently than a lot of people (not in intelligence level, but on a value level) but this topic has piqued my interest.

Let's understand first that Obama is kissing every ass and every baby as possible to make sure he's seen as the legit answer to our problems. We all know the man can speak, but he really hasn't done anything except overreach with the long arm of government. Talking to the Islamic community won't solve anything. They have hated our way of life long before GW came along. There isn't a peaceful solution with these people. Now, I will be the first to admit that there are different Islamic traditions, but it's the extremists he's really trying to reach out to. I'll say it again, there isn't a peaceful solution. Not because we don't desire it, but because they don't desire it. Our way of life to them is offensive and seen as a scourge on the Earth. Not just the American way of life, but the entire western world's way of life simply isn't compatible with Islam. Now, I'm speaking in the direction of the extremists as I mentioned above, and truly, they are the ones who dictate the actions and reactions of the rest of the world. Unfortunately, Islam is something that cannot be stopped. I recently did a report on an article (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760) on the spread of Islam, it's rather long, but I encourage you to read it.
no...we dont hate western countries....take this coming from a muslim...plus any extremists are nutcases and they are the minority........and u will find that most normal muslims dont hate america but their policies i.e guantanmo bay, iraq, etc...
IDK. Im torn.

I think we should be more focused on solving our own problems at home rather than appeasing Islam. Also, although you could consider it to be mean, fact is that when an alternate means of energy is found(well actually odds are theyve found and produced one but the oil companies own it and they wont start milking that until the oil runs dry) the middle east will hold no relevance to the world whatsoever. They will provide absolutely nothing to the rest of the world. They have no natural resources other than oil. Once thats gone they arent gonna have anything. LOL they hate us now and all the money they have is money weve provided to them by buying their oil. Geez they are really gonna hate us when the oil is gone.

So personally i think we should severely cut back on foreign affairs. We need to get back to sound money and fix our own problems. We should not even be worried in the least what muslims think of us. Our fucking economy is collapsing big time. And Obama is making bad decision after bad decision. Total collapse is immanent, and appearing just over the horizon.

Yes im sorry for you foolish Obama lovers. He is already proving to be Bush x 2. Hes already fucking up big time and making mistakes we will pay for, for YEARS to come. Good lord dont elect this mofo next term just because hes a good orator. He is George bush in a different and shinier wrapper. Wake the fuck up and stop listening to his words and look at what hes doing. WE HAVE JUST BEEN OVER THIS THE LAST 8 YEARS AND YALL ARE ALREADY BLINDLY FOLLOWING SOMEONE ELSE. Fucks sake, wake the fuck up.

So personally now is a time to say "fuck the rest of the world." Keep your ass at home and get your own house in order. Then worry about foreign relations. Get our troops out of the middle east. Cut foreign spending to 0. Get the fuck outta the UN(we pay for the majority of that). And get your ass over here. And rather than listen to Timothy Geitner, start talking to some economist. Obama is not an economist. HE NEEDS TO BE! And our next president also needs to be. Obama is not. So basically he goes along with whatever his cabinet says, with whatever Tim Geitner says.

WRONG MOVE.

Get your ass back in the oval office and focus on our real problems.

to be honest i agree with you that he should solve his problems at home first though he cant exactly ignore other countries as they provide valuable resources and trade....and not just muslim countries only.....

but i dont agree with leaving the un, it would be dumb since you guys would be come pratically isolated form the global community....and essentially fucked

[Rutabeggar]

no...we dont hate western countries....take this coming from a muslim...plus any extremists are nutcases and they are the minority........and u will find that most normal muslims dont hate america but their policies i.e guantanmo bay, iraq, etc...

I never said Muslims in general hated the west. I would hope you saw the part that said that extremists dictate the reaction and actions of everyone else, that there are many different traditions of the Muslim faith. I realize that the extremists are the minority, but the extremists are what dictate foreign policy. You have to tread very carefully when dealing with Islamic extremism. We have enough problems here in the United States without taking on that problem as well. Please read my post again...

[BalrogLord]

I think this is the 21st century version of Nixon going to China.

Funny how when it was happening people were saying you cant reason with communists. Now its you "cant reason with the Middle-East because they are all fanatics". Its actually quite sad how repetitive History is.

[arishkegal]

Obama should address the Muslim world, no harm can come from discussion. Despite all of the bad news that comes out of the middle east, they are slowly becoming more progressive. For example, Kuwait elected 4 women as members of Parliament for the first time ever, Dubai is becoming more and more like the US, they have an active nightlife and social scene.

However, they are still in the middle east, which is subject to extremism and violence. One can only hope they get past that, because they still have cases of women being raped and their families turning against them because of some honor code. Only a few countries are showing signs of becoming progressive, the rest are stuck in the old ways.

The US needs to use alternative energy in order to stop becoming dependent on foreign oil, then we won't have to worry so much about what is happening over there, we can pull our troops out and save our money on wars and "preemptive strikes". Alternative energy can create industries which will create jobs for Americans, and in turn that will help with the economy.:idea:

[Fatstogey]

Obama should address the Muslim world, no harm can come from discussion. Despite all of the bad news that comes out of the middle east, they are slowly becoming more progressive. For example, Kuwait elected 4 women as members of Parliament for the first time ever, Dubai is becoming more and more like the US, they have an active nightlife and social scene.

However, they are still in the middle east, which is subject to extremism and violence. One can only hope they get past that, because they still have cases of women being raped and their families turning against them because of some honor code. Only a few countries are showing signs of becoming progressive, the rest are stuck in the old ways.

The US needs to use alternative energy in order to stop becoming dependent on foreign oil, then we won't have to worry so much about what is happening over there, we can pull our troops out and save our money on wars and "preemptive strikes". Alternative energy can create industries which will create jobs for Americans, and in turn that will help with the economy.:idea:

The saddest thing is that those alternative energy sources could or do exist already.
Actually i think last time i read that an orbital elevator was already feasible, but no one is willing to risk it. It would cost several billion dollars. However it could open up the opportunity of having orbiting solar panels. Not quite as cool as gundam 00. There wouldnt be high speed trains going up and down it. But technology does exist to make a 10,000 mile long tether that can go into outerspace. However power transmission isnt included in that. If they had conductive material the wire would be to heavy. But we are at step one already and they really need to do it. Solar is the ulitmate energy source. And solar panels in orbit are not effected by not time and not effected by weather. They would be 100% power output 24hrs a day 7 days...

Also the majority in the middle east are and have been oppressed for years. WEve bombed them and weve been

in their business for years. They wont be swayed by a speech. While the people there are not as book smart as americans, on average, they are smarter in 1 way. They dont buy into government speakers as easily as we do. Theyve been oppressed for so long they dont buy into words so easily. We are the ones who are foolish in that sense. And youd think wed learn but we dont. Either way the only way to appease the middle east would cost us money.

We are the only stupid ones who buy into words. They dont plan to DO anything to help the middle east. They just wanna talk. And no one is listening.

IDK im already to the point of not believing anything he says because he has done nothing. And hes willign to make decisions that can totally change this country too quickly. People in the middle east arent gonna give a crap about a speech. Especially if they know how much hes already lied.

[TW501]

He made the speech, here it is (it's pretty long, so if you don't have a lot of time on your hands, you might want to wait).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BlqLwCKkeY
I personally thought that overall it was a pretty good speech.

[Exploits]

He set it up nicely. When he'd start talking about America, he would avoid enforcing the stereotype of "We care only about us" we've so come to terms with by slowly weaving back to the topic if Islam, relating it to the issues of America.

I can only wonder how Bush would have done.

[btill9000]

I can only wonder how Bush would have done.

He prolly would've caught another shoe to the head.

[seiftis]

He prolly would've caught another shoe to the head.

I'd love to see that again, maybe a spike shoe is in line.

[ismey]

I'd love to see that again, maybe a spike shoe is in line.

lol tht would be funny.... i heard the poor guy who threw it at bush got several months in prison....was it worth it?.....yeh probably lolz...:amazed:

[seiftis]

I'm personally cheering the guy's action, so who knows if it's worth it.

[RMerchant]

I hate having to explain this to the people who live around me, but the 1950's are over, we need to stop storming around like a bunch of trigger happy cowboys demanding everyone do things our way "or else".

One of the first things you learn in grade school is that a lot of life is a popularity contest, world politics are no exception to this. Now, it's one thing when you want to go around being a big bully and have the firepower to back it up, but currently the world has us by the balls and by the wallet.

When your nation's currency isn't backed by gold or silver, but by "good will" and people's desire to work with you, you have to stop being the bully and lead by example. What right do you have to tell people they can't have nukes when you have an enormous stockpile of your own? What right do you have to lecture an allied nation who is killing a race of people and taking their land when your own country was built upon it? What right do you have to call those who disagree with how we do things "terrorists" or "unpatriotic" when the men who founded this country were "terrorists" themselves?

We need to stop saying we're the "good guys" if we're gonna wave a gun in everyone's face.

[Exploits]

I hate having to explain this to the people who live around me, but the 1950's are over, we need to stop storming around like a bunch of trigger happy cowboys demanding everyone do things our way "or else".

One of the first things you learn in grade school is that a lot of life is a popularity contest, world politics are no exception to this. Now, it's one thing when you want to go around being a big bully and have the firepower to back it up, but currently the world has us by the balls and by the wallet.

When your nation's currency isn't backed by gold or silver, but by "good will" and people's desire to work with you, you have to stop being the bully and lead by example. What right do you have to tell people they can't have nukes when you have an enormous stockpile of your own? What right do you have to lecture an allied nation who is killing a race of people and taking their land when your own country was built upon it? What right do you have to call those who disagree with how we do things "terrorists" or "unpatriotic" when the men who founded this country were "terrorists" themselves?

We need to stop saying we're the "good guys" if we're gonna wave a gun in everyone's face.

The idiocy of dwelling of long-past events is what causes more modern countries such as Canada and the U.S. to essentially fall behind in every social way in comparison to all other Western Nations, or basically Europe as a whole. We fucked up, we only take the blame because we occupy the same geographical area where these evens took place. In reality, European leaders are to blame, or people who are long since dead. Times change, opinions differ, and what was once wrong is now accepted or entirely right. If people can just realize that pissing about the death of your great-great-great-great-uncle Smokey-bear Hawk-eye of the Sioux people at the hands of Corporal John Huckleberry of Tennessee (b. 1810), we could move along.

[RMerchant]

The idiocy of dwelling of long-past events is what causes more modern countries such as Canada and the U.S. to essentially fall behind in every social way in comparison to all other Western Nations, or basically Europe as a whole. We fucked up, we only take the blame because we occupy the same geographical area where these evens took place. In reality, European leaders are to blame, or people who are long since dead. Times change, opinions differ, and what was once wrong is now accepted or entirely right. If people can just realize that pissing about the death of your great-great-great-great-uncle Smokey-bear Hawk-eye of the Sioux people at the hands of Corporal John Huckleberry of Tennessee (b. 1810), we could move along.

And that's why Israel and Palestine can't co-exist, either side's inability to "get over it"

[arthur11]

And that's why Israel and Palestine can't co-exist, either side's inability to "get over it"

apart from their shits slight more recent..and its apperantly about religion, who wants the holy mountain and all that....'historical importance'...isaac was taught right by abraham not ishamel and vica a versa, just some huge family squarrel used to justify avenging or expanding territory.

I dont know what kind of mumbo jumbo Obama has to pull out his ass to get these guys to chill.

[RMerchant]

apart from their shits slight more recent..and its apperantly about religion, who wants the holy mountain and all that....'historical importance'...isaac was taught right by abraham not ishamel and vica a versa, just some huge family squarrel used to justify avenging or expanding territory.

I dont know what kind of mumbo jumbo Obama has to pull out his ass to get these guys to chill.

Pretty much. You could nuke Jerusalem and the survivors would fight over the ensuing crater.

[AfterExile]

Pretty much. You could nuke Jerusalem and the survivors would fight over the ensuing crater.

Lol thats a nice thought... :guitar1: :guitar:

Too bad China will eventually be our biggest threat either way..

[RMerchant]

Lol thats a nice thought... :guitar1: :guitar:

Too bad China will eventually be our biggest threat either way..

Meh, if you look at China's history, it shows that they just don't want to be screwed with.

They never really do the invading, but they sure as hell throw everything and the baby at the invaders.

[AfterExile]

Meh, if you look at China's history, it shows that they just don't want to be screwed with.

They never really do the invading, but they sure as hell throw everything and the baby at the invaders.

Ha Ha you are right about that after all they are the one civilization known for building a giant wall seperating them from the rest of the world.

[ismey]

Ha Ha you are right about that after all they are the one civilization known for building a giant wall seperating them from the rest of the world.

until the mongolians destroy it a la southpark....DAMN YOU MONGORIANS!!!

anyways i have seen most of his speech and it seems he has even got my dad interested in him now....we will see how he does in acting out his policies etc but seems hes got most of the muslims listening seriously to america for now.....a massive difference to bush.....thank goodness.

[AfterExile]

until the mongolians destroy it a la southpark....DAMN YOU MONGORIANS!!!

anyways i have seen most of his speech and it seems he has even got my dad interested in him now....we will see how he does in acting out his policies etc but seems hes got most of the muslims listening seriously to america for now.....a massive difference to bush.....thank goodness.

Ha Ha thats one of the best SP episodes too.

As for Obama.. Hes got a lot of muslims listening but thats not stoping Bin Laden from making threats-

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7743936&page=1

[Nikato]

Ha Ha thats one of the best SP episodes too.

As for Obama.. Hes got a lot of muslims listening but thats not stoping Bin Laden from making threats-

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7743936&page=1

Since when isn't that fucker speaking shit about events?

[AfterExile]

Since when isn't that fucker speaking shit about events?

True that... I cant beleive hes still alive with the bounty thats been placed on him.. are there no longer assassins in the world? :suspicious:

[BalrogLord]

Ha Ha you are right about that after all they are the one civilization known for building a giant wall seperating them from the rest of the world.

there are 120men to 100 women in china. now China has a population of a few billion. Thats millions of men without a wife, family and a general stake in society. These men are more likely to join gangs, to commit crimes and even to rebbel at the slightest excuse.
The women go to all the rich men, increasing the gap between those distinct social classes, causing strife and conflict. When this generation matures more china is gona have so many social issues its not even funny. Its not gona be in any position to be a threat to anyone but itself. Look at the Nien rebbellion of 1850~ for an example of this.

[btill9000]

True that... I cant beleive hes still alive with the bounty thats been placed on him.. are there no longer assassins in the world? :suspicious:

He isn't alive. I believe that the Bin Laden we've been seeing as of late is a fake.

[TW501]

It's possible, but at this point it is mere speculation. If you want to talk about bin Laden's status, go here:
http://forums.bleachexile.com/showthread.php?t=48365

[btill9000]

Sorry I can't stomach too Bin Laden talk. The response that I made was in direct response to a post I read in this particular discussion.


Anyway, back to the speech. Hmmm, I think this is the best speech Obama has made since early in his campaign. I am a little annoyed with him for going back to Afghanistan though. I think that we can survive without having our military in the middle east. We'll have to deal with them until we deal with our energy problems, but a military presence isn't necessary IMO.

[AfterExile]

The speach was amazing, I think the whole thing with going to war with Afghanistan is retarded, but hey atleast he has wartime powers now... Something Bush took advantage of for 8 years.

[Marrow Rivengristel]

IMO, It was a cupcake type of move. People who subside in a wasteland are not impressed by figurative wordplay. In the radical-muslim world kindness by the infidel is not mistaken for weakness, kindness by the infidel is weakness. If America wants a dialog with radical-islam they are going to have to abandon Israel and ostensibly acknowledge the validity of Islamic law.

[AfterExile]

Such is the difference in our two cultures, It sucks that they are sitting on all of that oil.

[BalrogLord]

IMO, It was a cupcake type of move. People who subside in a wasteland are not impressed by figurative wordplay. In the radical-muslim world kindness by the infidel is not mistaken for weakness, kindness by the infidel is weakness. If America wants a dialog with radical-islam they are going to have to abandon Israel and ostensibly acknowledge the validity of Islamic law.

they're dealing with the moderate islamists, not with the radicals.

[TW501]

Specifically, the speech was designed to improve relations with muslims and draw them away from radical ideology and violence.

[btill9000]

People who subside in a wasteland are not impressed by figurative wordplay.

I got some word play for them.... "Okay we are leaving your country now because you obviously want us gone. If you follow us home, attack us, or really do anything to us that we don't like we are going to make you not exist anymore. Have a nice day."

[Marrow Rivengristel]

they're dealing with the moderate islamists, not with the radicals.

I disagree, IMO the threat to US national interests is rooted in radical zealotry, not in muslim followers open to compromise. Dealing with moderate islamists where? Not in Iran, Syria, Yemen, Palestine openly at the governmental level & not in most other Mideast nations covertly at a national level and openly at a local level. I don't think Islam is buying it and to me the speech just made Obama look like a rootiepoo.

[BalrogLord]

I disagree, IMO the threat to US national interests is rooted in radical zealotry, not in muslim followers open to compromise. Dealing with moderate islamists where? Not in Iran, Syria, Yemen, Palestine openly at the governmental level & not in most other Mideast nations covertly at a national level and openly at a local level. I don't think Islam is buying it and to me the speech just made Obama look like a rootiepoo.

by dealing with the moderates, you get on their good side. If you get on the good side of the moderates, thery will be less hatred in general. Less hatred in general means less radicals. Besides not every middle-eastern country is anti americain. Some countries are even quite receptive like kuwait for example.

[Marrow Rivengristel]

by dealing with the moderates, you get on their good side. If you get on the good side of the moderates, thery will be less hatred in general. Less hatred in general means less radicals.

Not-Necessarily^3:iik:

[TW501]

Think of it this way: If the war on terror's goal is to eliminate all terrorism forever, it's an unwinnable war. Terrorism isn't an enemy, it's a tactic currently employed by militants. While we still need to fight the militant groups, the most effective way to stamp terrorism out as much as possible is to establish good relations that causes fewer people to become terrorists, makes it harder for terrorists to obtain supplies and support, and drive terrorists further and further to the edge.

[btill9000]

Think of it this way: If the war on terror's goal is to eliminate all terrorism forever, it's an unwinnable war. Terrorism isn't an enemy, it's a tactic currently employed by militants. While we still need to fight the militant groups, the most effective way to stamp terrorism out as much as possible is to establish good relations that causes fewer people to become terrorists, makes it harder for terrorists to obtain supplies and support, and drive terrorists further and further to the edge.

In the political circles that really matter, the War on Terror doesn't exist anymore in the context that it use to. If you notice, this most recent speech is Obama's longest speech ever given, and he never said terror once. Most of the people in his circle don't use the word "terror" in public anymore. So, regardless if you like Obama or not, everyone should applaud him for realizing that declaring a war on terror is about as ridiculous as declaring a war on unhappy thoughts.

[bigpipe]

At the end of the day, it would be a two-way exercise. It will take both Obama administration and the Muslim world to reach out to each other rather than just one side trying to do the appeasing bit. If the parties dont meet somewhere in the middle, there are still going to be problems.