Naruto 458 Discussion

[vejtornado]

Discuss chapter 458 here.

The chapter looks like it is going to be boring with the kages just talking.

[Infinitekaos]

Yea, this chapter might be boring, but we're in setup chapters now. I'm actually interested to find out that other people besides Shodai Hokage could control Bijuu. (Well, we know Madara to a certain extent).

[KING GRIMMJOW]

The bit that intrests me is that Killer bee has the ability to control Bijuu.

[btill9000]

Yeh the Killerbee part was interesting. Just looking at what accured, it looks like the Raikage and the Hokage will end up allied closely. Danzo and Raikage seem to have similar goals.

[Lnrd]

Lol Danzou would have had a great week if all the other kages agreed to what the neutral guy said. 1st he was named Hokage then he would have been named just The Kage.

[btill9000]

Yeh he's having a good week, but given that he wont live out the next week, I don't know if it's quite worth it.

[Zero-sama]

I better wait till the chapter gets out, because the only thing I did understand is that 5 kages are in a meeting talking shit about Akatsuki.

[Lnrd]

From what I gathered from the spoilers it seems that some of the ninja villages have hired Akatsuki at different points in time.

[x-Battousai-x]

Yeah, it seems so. With a better translation we'll get a better dialogue. I'm really excited, these information chapters always help to fill in the missing details.

So, KillerBee can control Bijuu. It makes sense how he had the 8-Tails as his bitch now. I don't think he could teach Naruto how to control it, unless it's like some sort of "Chakra Leash". I'm sure Sasuke is capable of controlling them to some extent now as well.

Shaping up to be another great chapter.

[BigBoogerBot]

I was a bit confused by the spoilers. Seems like mostly a talking chapter though. Not that that's bad. It can't be all fighting. Or entire chapters dedicated to constipated stare-downs and charging up energy blasts.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Yeah, it seems so. With a better translation we'll get a better dialogue. I'm really excited, these information chapters always help to fill in the missing details.

So, KillerBee can control Bijuu. It makes sense how he had the 8-Tails as his bitch now. I don't think he could teach Naruto how to control it, unless it's like some sort of "Chakra Leash". I'm sure Sasuke is capable of controlling them to some extent now as well.

Shaping up to be another great chapter.

Good points. It's true that information chapters help to fill in the missing details, and that's why they're good.

And, yeah, if Killer Bee has a special ability that allows him to control Bijuu, then it does mean that he probably won't be able to teach Naruto how to control the Kyuubi. Though, I do actually hope, at least, that there's something in that scroll Minato left behind that can help Naruto control the Kyuubi. Though, from what Killer Bee said to Sasuke, I was actually under the impression that it requires a mutual relationship and/or connection between the Bijuu and Host for the latter to be able to control his/her Bijuu completely. And if that's the case, then it should at least be easier for Naruto to be able to control the Kyuubi completely.

And, also, when it was said in the chapter that Killer Bee could control Bijuu, they could just have meant that he was a Jinchuuriki and that he could only control his own Bijuu.

But it's obvious that someone with a Mangekyou Sharingan would be able to control the Kyuubi. And only the Kyuubi, since it says in the scroll with the secret of the Uchiha Clan that the Mangekyou Sharingan allows its user to control the Kyuubi.

[x-Battousai-x]

@ Bankai-Ichigo

Was it stated that MS users could only control the Kyuubi? I don't remember if they stated Kyuubi specifically or not. I remember reading something about Madara using the tailed demons as pets, or was that the First Hokage? Sorry to trouble you, but if you don't mind, could you please link me to the Chapter?

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I feel lazy right now, so you find it yourself--it's the time when Sasuke and Itachi have their final fight, and it was Sasuke who says it. He read it on scroll on the wall in the secret room of Uchiha Clan.

And, yeah, it was the Shodaime Hokage who could control the Bijuu like pets.

[btill9000]

So I take it that this means that Naruto is going to have to get rid of the fox in order to face Sasuke or Madara?

[Razvan_Asakura]

The 9 original hosts:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm305/Flammietta/Naruto%20Screen%20Shots/Jinnchuriki.jpg

so if we narrow things down, who do we have left? 1 tail is down, 2 tails as well. the one with 4 tails was defeated as well. 9 is naruto, 8 is missing. 3 seems to be from the rain village, so he probably went down first. I see the 6 tail one as perhaps from the water village. 5, 6 and 7 are still in question as far as I remember.

I'm kinda curious since that neutral guy asked in this chapter, which village has a bijuu, as supreme commander besides Konoha.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

the complete txt has been posted in the spoiler section

[Rollingstar]

lmao, so sakura is so stupid that she needs someone to tell her about her own feelings. I always knew she was the most pathetic "heroine" of all shounen manga.

[Infinitekaos]

The 9 original hosts:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm305/Flammietta/Naruto%20Screen%20Shots/Jinnchuriki.jpg

so if we narrow things down, who do we have left? 1 tail is down, 2 tails as well. the one with 4 tails was defeated as well. 9 is naruto, 8 is missing. 3 seems to be from the rain village, so he probably went down first. I see the 6 tail one as perhaps from the water village. 5, 6 and 7 are still in question as far as I remember.

I'm kinda curious since that neutral guy asked in this chapter, which village has a bijuu, as supreme commander besides Konoha.

It has been stated by Madara that all Bijuu's have been captured with the expception of Killer Bee's 8-tails and Naruto's 9-tails. The 3-tails Jinchuuriki was probably long dead before Akatsuki fought the wild Bijuu, I assume taken over by the power of his Bijuu.

[yaWgnorW]

I would imagine Danzo would or should also bring up the fact that its been Konoha that has been responsible for the killing of several Akatsuki members. Even Sasuke, a missing nin from Konoha is responsible for Deidara and even Itachi in someway.

Also, Konoha has by far been the most affected by Akatsuki...why would Raikage not trust them simply because of Sasuke or using Akatsuki in the past.

[ryuuga]

anyone else seeing some similarity here.
http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu295/jaustin89/up0697.jpghttp://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu295/jaustin89/SanbiHost.jpg

[Lnrd]

^definitely His name is Yagura which also confirms he's the former sanbi host. (http://forums.bleachexile.com/showthread.php?t=49190) So the 4th Mizukage was also a Junchuuriki, interesting.

EDIT: This also means Madara must have been Mizukage before the rise of the bloodmist villiage.

[theseraph]

imagine madara was a host to the kyubbi, but that's far from an option now heh. i do wonder though, two controllers, two jinchurikis, that's all we know.

[AzureFeatherfly]

@ Bankai-Ichigo

Was it stated that MS users could only control the Kyuubi? I don't remember if they stated Kyuubi specifically or not. I remember reading something about Madara using the tailed demons as pets, or was that the First Hokage? Sorry to trouble you, but if you don't mind, could you please link me to the Chapter?

These should help you answer your questions.

Mangekyou Sharingan and Kyuubi:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/16/

Shodaime Hokage and Bijuus:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/291/15/

[btill9000]

It says the sharingan can control the Kyuubi, but nothing ever states that it cannot control the others. Sasuke just happens to only be interested in controlling the Kyuubi, so thats probably all that strikes him as interesting.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Well, I still think the Mangekyou Sharingan can only control the Kyuubi. The Sharingan and the Kyuubi seem to have a sort of relationship, the way I see it. Until the manga explicitly states otherwise, I'm going to stick with the belief that the Mangekyou Sharingan can only control the Kyuubi.

Also, I don't think Madara was ever a Jinchuuriki. It was never even implied in the manga, to my knowledge at least.

@Whoever it was that said that Naruto may need to get rid of the Kyuubi to fight Sasuke, Madara, and/or Danzou: I don't think it's possible, seeing as a Jinchuuriki dies if his/her Bijuu is extracted. The only reason Gaara didn't die was because Chiyo used a Tensei Ninjutsu on him and gave up her life energy to revive him with it.

The Mangekyou Sharingan can control the Kyuubi, yes, but Naruto has to be drawing on its chakra for it to be controlled like that, is what I think. Minato said he wanted Naruto to use the Kyuubi to fight Madara the way I understood it, so from that I gather that Naruto will try to use the Kyuubi against Madara and get caught under the Mangekyou Sharingan's influence. If that happens, someone may have to save him. Either that or he could gain back control over the Kyuubi with sheer will power and raw chakra if it's possible; and it might be, too, seeing as he's the Kyuubi's Host.

[AzureFeatherfly]

It says the sharingan can control the Kyuubi, but nothing ever states that it cannot control the others. Sasuke just happens to only be interested in controlling the Kyuubi, so thats probably all that strikes him as interesting.

I am not going to go over the scans everyone should be aware of.

Itachi specifically said:

The Stone Tablet in the Secret Room holds the purpose/secret/truth of the Sharingan - Control of the Kyuubi.

If it included all Bijuus, why would Sasuke go in an illogical manner to only mention Kyuubi?

[Bankai - Ichigo]

^Exactly. And, yeah, it's true that Itachi did tell Sasuke, I think some time before their final fight, that the secret purpose of the Sharingan is to control the Kyuubi.

[btill9000]

If it included all Bijuus, why would Sasuke go in an illogical manner to only mention Kyuubi?
Because he's not that smart and has already proven that he has tunnel vision problem. Nah joking, if it says that in the chapters your probably right. I just don't recall it being stated that way.

[-champloo-]

Naruto chapter: Tons of interesting, relevant dialogue.
Bleach Chapter: 5 pages of Hiyori yelling at Hitsugaya for calling her a kid.

lol it's like this EVERY week.


Anyway, great chapter.

[AzureFeatherfly]

Because he's not that smart and has already proven that he has tunnel vision problem. Nah joking, if it says that in the chapters your probably right. I just don't recall it being stated that way.

Here:

Day of the Uchiha Massacre:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/225/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/225/04/

Itachi says: "There you will find what Purpose the Doujutsu of the Uchiha Clan originally served, the Real Secret is hidden there."

Day of the Brother's Duel:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/16/

Sasuke says: "Blindness, so that's the price you pay for Gaining Control over the Kyuubi no Kitsune?"

Itachi says: "Well, well. You actually listened to me and read the Tablet/s in the secret meeting room."

Conclusion:

Secret Room = Truth Tablet

Sasuke Reads Tablet = Control Over Kyuubi

Itachi Confirms: Sasuke's Information = Truth Tablet

Not trying to insult you, but this thing has been asked too many times.

[btill9000]

Well yeh I knew that much, but they don't rule anything out in their discussion. Your probably right, but Kishi left himself some maneuvering room.

[Zero-sama]

Naruto chapter: Tons of interesting, relevant dialogue.
Bleach Chapter: 5 pages of Hiyori yelling at Hitsugaya for calling her a kid.

lol it's like this EVERY week.


Anyway, great chapter.

You have just won the lotto. Agree with you. Kishi is a better writer than Kubo. Kishi does not waste pages in all of his chapters like the competition.

[btill9000]

I think they both waste pages. Kishi just does it less.

[Zero-sama]

Well Kishi does waste pages but not like Kubo. If you compare a chapter from Naruto and a chapter from Bleach you will see that 1 chapter of Naruto is the equivalent of 3 chapters of Bleach, well something like that.

Naruto IMO has a better story and a great character development, but Bleach has way better characters in it's story.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

That's all true, Zero. I agree.

@Btill: Kishi may have deliberately left it vague, but I'm still going to go by what was explicitly stated. Let's not make assumptions now.

[Dumbledore]

Too much sakura/naruto love going on, Kishi better not take this further.

[Infinitekaos]

Sakura crying in another chapter....Kishi is turning this into a habit. And its interesting the former host of the 3-tails was also a Kage (at least according to their names in the spoilers).

[btill9000]

That's all true, Zero. I agree.

@Btill: Kishi may have deliberately left it vague, but I'm still going to go by what was explicitly stated. Let's not make assumptions now.

No your not because what was explicitly stated is that the Sharingan can control the Kyuubi. That is all that was stated.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I know that that's what was explicitly stated, which also calls for the implication that there's a relationship between the Kyuubi and the Sharingan--and also, what was stated was that the Mangekyou Sharingan can control the Kyuubi. It's as obvious as it can get.

@Infinitekaos: I agree.

[Mjaut]

I liked Gaara's speech.

And all kages except Gaara (and Tsunade) seemed like power hungry selfish bastards.

[Tank]

Raikage is just an idiot. He points his fingers at all the other Kages because Akatsuki is made up of missing nin from their villages. If he's going to make a statement like that, he should know what each ninja from Akatsuki comes from. Um, I think he's forgetting somebody in that case. Oh yeah, Diedara, the one that beat down and captured Gaara, got in a fight with Konoha's rescue team, captured the three tails, and caused a giant ass explosion that had a ridiculous range while getting in a fight with the missing nin Sasuke who killed one of the most wanted ninja in the series; Orochimaru. The blond from the Rock Village. Yeah, I think your scouts overlooked something.

On top of that he jumps to random conclusions. "Suna used Akatsuki to try and destroy Konoha. Orochimaru! It's unclear whether he was still a member of Akatsuki at the time!" He admits it's unclear yet still says with definite conviction that the Sand used Akatsuki.

The Raikage needs some Ritalin.

Also, fuck you Kishimoto. Way to shit on Hinata's entire character to instead further the development of a homo and a rotten, useless bitch who's always treated the main character like a piece of feces instead. Sai has got to be the worst character in the entire manga.

That seemed like a particularly angry post lol.

[Mjaut]

http://media2.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000208022/04-05.jpg

Is that Sasori as Kankuro's puppet?

[hehey]

Are these guys even aware that Akatsuki has like, 3 members right now?, I get that Akatsuki has done some big stuff before, but 5 countries will join force to take out 3 guys seems a little too much.....

[_NeaR_]

Well Hehey, I think why they wish to band up is for the simple fact that Madara is suspected to be behind it all; When we all really know he is. Being that its him, they do not wish to under estimate him, and so, they want to band up.

What I don't understand, is how the Tsuchikage has the audacity to get on the other Kages for their Biju being extracted and then asking for aid, when he himself, has had 2 Biju taken. Sure, we have no clue whether he asked, but shoot, I find that hypocritical. :odd:

@Tank- Really I think Sakura will never go to Naruto now, THANK GOD. I mean, Sai just called her a curse to Naruto, as well as Sasuke, so if Sasuke does end up coming back she is just gonna want him then they'll leave together....*SIGH*
Personally, because I love Yaoi and all it stands for, I wish he'd surprise the shit out of us and make Naruto and Sasuke start making out in front of her. :odd: Kishimoto made that kiss in the beginning for a reason, he admitted to it; He wanted to see if it could go canon, but most found it more of a laugh then that. xD

[Mjaut]

I wonder if Kankuro can use Third Kazekage puppet along with Sasori.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Raikage is just an idiot. He points his fingers at all the other Kages because Akatsuki is made up of missing nin from their villages. If he's going to make a statement like that, he should know what each ninja from Akatsuki comes from. Um, I think he's forgetting somebody in that case. Oh yeah, Diedara, the one that beat down and captured Gaara, got in a fight with Konoha's rescue team, captured the three tails, and caused a giant ass explosion that had a ridiculous range while getting in a fight with the missing nin Sasuke who killed one of the most wanted ninja in the series; Orochimaru. The blond from the Rock Village. Yeah, I think your scouts overlooked something.

On top of that he jumps to random conclusions. "Suna used Akatsuki to try and destroy Konoha. Orochimaru! It's unclear whether he was still a member of Akatsuki at the time!" He admits it's unclear yet still says with definite conviction that the Sand used Akatsuki.

The Raikage needs some Ritalin.

Also, fuck you Kishimoto. Way to shit on Hinata's entire character to instead further the development of a homo and a rotten, useless bitch who's always treated the main character like a piece of feces instead. Sai has got to be the worst character in the entire manga.

That seemed like a particularly angry post lol.

Yeah, it's a very angry post. Lol.

And I completely agree, except I think my views on the whole Sakura and Naruto thing are already obvious. And Sakura doesn't treat Naruto that badly anymore, for the record; she only hits him when he's acting like an idiot. I think that that's fine. Naruto needs that.

I just don't like Hinata's confession being completely ignored like it never happened at all.

@Near: I completely agree with the first two paragraphs, but . . .

Not with the third one. I mean, yeah, it makes sense that Sakura probably wouldn't want to get with Naruto now even if she has bee developing feelings for him, seeing as Sai just told her she's a curse to Naruto. But I honestly don't even want to think about yaoi. The kiss between Naruto and Sasuke in the first chapter was an accident on Naruto's part anyway. It's either NaruSaku or NaruHina, and also, either SasuSaku (if NaruSaku doesn't happen), or SasukexKarin (if SasuSaku doesn't happen).

[yaWgnorW]

I give the chapter a pretty high rating for development IMO. I enjoyed it. I think Raikage is more/less running on pure emotion right now due to Killerbee missing, however he is obviously way out of line, maybe a bit hypocritical.. However...it seems he knows things about Danzo, and is onto whatever he could be ploting or at least has ploted in the past.
Sai putting Sakura in her place was great, and needed although she was blindsided with it haha. This could lead to a better development of her character.

[Paragon]

Also, fuck you Kishimoto. Way to shit on Hinata's entire character to instead further the development of a homo and a rotten, useless bitch who's always treated the main character like a piece of feces instead. Sai has got to be the worst character in the entire manga.

Like seriously, he totally dragged Hinata's character several steps back with the BS he pulled in this chapter. Naruto's a bit of a dumbass as well, somebody risks their life to save him and rather than paying a quick visit to at the very least drop down a "thank you", hes off acting a fool for Sasuke's sake. I hope Naruto dies in a fire by the end of it all...along with Sasuke.

[Nocturne' Ichigo]

could be interesting

[ZeroBlaze33]

http://media2.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000208022/04-05.jpg

Is that Sasori as Kankuro's puppet?

HO SHI- well if it is Sasori then if garra doesnt agree with mifune he is screwed it like Kankuro comes in and pull Sasori puppet out saying "whos the leader of the alliance now"

[Yadomaru]

8/10 Chapter for me.

While I agree that Sai blows as a character, I still think that the worse character in Naruto is that emo bitch Sasuke. Sai's a close second.

Setting that aside, I think we can now add Danzo to the list of Tobi's accomplices/puppets.
Anyhoo, pretty damn good chapter.
And Gaara's a BAMF.

[Vergil]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
NaruSaku what the fuck,honestly?
And there's no Hinata in all chpaters after her confession etc.
Stupidity prevails.
And Sai the matchmaker LMAO...
I hope he's just wrong.
And Kages dialogue was great. Though Raikage pisses me off.

7/10

[_NeaR_]

Sai is an awseome Character. I don't care what you think. I find him awesome, he's like a little kid, and quite frankly I think he wasn't trying to be a match maker, rather having Sakura stop being an Asshole and realize what the fuck she demands from Naruto and doesn't give. Thats how I see it.

@Bankai-Ichigo- Well Im glad you agree with the main points. The 3rd was purely bias as I love Yaoi and prefer it over any actually Male Female pairing. Hinata is nice and all but Naruto isn't going to go with her, I hate Sakura, and I also hate Ino...Most all the girls in that manga I hate...Hinata isn't, but only because she isn't helpless half the time. >.>

[Zero-sama]

This chapter was indeed entertaining. The 5 kages meeting was indeed epic. Gaara was great. Every kage as a character did deliver an amazing job.

Sai you are the best. Awesome uppercut you delivered to Sakura. Now the bitch knows well that she is a curse for Naruto. She now knows that she is a stone in Naruto's path to become the greatest, therefore she will not end up with Naruto.

This chapter deserves a 10 0f 10. Why? Overall this chapter did deliver a great story, plot progression, character development and the conclusion was superb.

[Mjaut]

Sasori. is Kankuro's new puppet.

That's all that matters.

[Infinitekaos]

I seriously wonder what Sakura will do now. I don't know how she could have possibly missed the fact that Naruto has liked her. He's been asking her on dates since the start of Team 7. She just NOW realizes that he loves her. And on top of that, the fact that she's asking Naruto to bring back his one rival for love wasn't painful for him? For Kishi supposed to be portraying her as a smart character, she's incredibly dense.

Maybe this is the character growth Kishi wanted to add in for Sakura. Her sudden realization that she is a burden on Naruto. Not in a skill or jutsu sense, but emotional burden.

As far as the Kage meeting. Danzo is seemingly getting more and more power by the chapter. It obviously has to come crashing down sometime, the question is how and when?

[djray]

im definitely curious how danzo found out about madara...and they said yagura was the previous mizukage but kisame said it was madara thats a little confusing...and wasnt the 2 tails jinchuriki skilled at controllling its beast?

[Yadomaru]

Kisame said he was A previous Mizukage. Didn't say he was necessarily Yondaime.
However, I find interesting that Yondaime Mizukage was Yagura - also the Sanbi's Jinchuuriki. Wonder what happened to him, given that the Sanbi was wandering around hostless when Akatsuki captured it.

[Lnrd]

@Yadomaru- Maybe he was trying to separate himself from the Sanbi, but died as a result of the separation. Maybe he didn't realize that if he removed the Sanbi he'd die. But, sense he was a Kage that scenario would kinda make him seem retarded.

@Chapter- 7 out of 10

I guess Sai was secretly HITCH (http://www.sonypictures.com/homevideo/hitch/). I really can't stand the Raikage, Naruto should have just went Sage Mode and whooped his ass.

[djray]

danzo is definitely growing on me hes just so damn resourceful

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I seriously wonder what Sakura will do now. I don't know how she could have possibly missed the fact that Naruto has liked her. He's been asking her on dates since the start of Team 7. She just NOW realizes that he loves her. And on top of that, the fact that she's asking Naruto to bring back his one rival for love wasn't painful for him? For Kishi supposed to be portraying her as a smart character, she's incredibly dense.

Agreed. For how much all of the characters in this series call Naruto dense, Sakura is all the more denser. If that makes sense.

And, yeah, what will Sakura do now?

Maybe this is the character growth Kishi wanted to add in for Sakura. Her sudden realization that she is a burden on Naruto. Not in a skill or jutsu sense, but emotional burden.

Yeah, you're probably right.

As far as the Kage meeting. Danzo is seemingly getting more and more power by the chapter. It obviously has to come crashing down sometime, the question is how and when?

Completely agreed. And I also seriously hope he ends up not getting the Jounin votes in Konoha that are needed for his becoming the official Hokage. When the hell is Tsunade waking up? She needs to put up some competition, too.

Also, what's Naruto going do do when Sasuke tries to kill Danzou? Or, if Sasuke comes and attacks at the meeting, and tries to actually kill Gaara, will Naruto defend Gaara? I hope so.

And I have a question for you guys: Who will join the Anti-Raikage FC if I made it?

[He's a Mentalist]

I've always liked Danzou and I am now starting to like the Raikage. He does his own thing, could care-less about emotional people who can't even stop their own friends/comrades, doesn't really trust anyone and basically is like a bringer of war. In my book that is a classic example of an anti-hero badass. I was hoping he wouldn't omit himself to Naruto's pleading as it was weak, and he told Naruto it was rather weak. I don't get the hatred for him... I am also starting to like the Mizukage and her bodyguards; I just want to see them in some action.

As for this chapter, 10/10 due to the meeting and the conversation between Sai and Sakura. Sai told her straight up that making Naruto hold on to some promise, she is basically hurting him because he loves her. This may allow Sakura to break that mind-binding love she has for Sauske and will probably end up attacking him herself as he is causing too much pain...

This chapter produced some emotional character development in my opinion instead of the rather physical character development. Danzou was perfect in this chapter just to add.

[Levy]

Also, what's Naruto going do do when Sasuke tries to kill Danzou? Or, if Sasuke comes and attacks at the meeting, and tries to actually kill Gaara, will Naruto defend Gaara? I hope so.

Iirc when Naruto had his little skirmish vs Itachi he said he would bring Sasuke back to the village even if he had to tear all his limbs apart (or something akin to that) but he would never kill him. So imo he wouldn't have any problem fighting Sasuke to beat some sense into him.

[1 up and 2 down]

im definitely curious how danzo found out about madara...and they said yagura was the previous mizukage but kisame said it was madara thats a little confusing...and wasnt the 2 tails jinchuriki skilled at controllling its beast?

That is a good question.

Madara has been posing as Tobi for pretty much the whole series and the only people that know who Tobi's true identity are Kisame, Zetsu, and Hawk. How would Danzou know that Madara is in charge of Akatsuki?

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Remember the message Sai sent Danzou? The one Danzou referred to as "just a regular update"? Yeah, I think the contents of that message were what Kakashi and Yamato wanted Sai to tell Danzou: That Madara is the true leader of Akatsuki. I think that's how he knows. I might be wrong though.

@He's a Mentalist: I agree with you as far as Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura are concerned, however I must agree to disagree on the first paragraph. I'm with you on not liking how Naruto made himself appear weak though.

[Mjaut]

Kankuro with Sasori is stronger than Gaara, so I can see him as 6th Kazekage.

Sakura will most likely join Taka so Naruto can kill her and Sasuke without any regrets.

[Revenge]

I like what kishi's doing, it's like saskura dont have any feeling for naruto axcept on the battle field CREEP!.Sai is the man he finnaly did something everybody can be proud of CREEP!
Next chapter i predict is going to be like this CREEP!.Gaara and Reikage not going to be agree for danzou to lead all 5 great nation CREEP!. Even if he did, on his way out sasuke will launch Amateratsu on him, and finish him off CREEP!

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Dude, can you stop saying, "CREEP!" at the end of every freaking sentence? It's annoying.

Though, yeah, I do agree with the actual post, except I don't think Sasuke will beat Danzou that easily. We don't really know everything about him yet, but I'm guessing he already has a Mangekyou Sharingan, and the way he took out those assassins that tried to kill him a while back speaks for his ability, too. If Sasuke does kill him, I'll be happy, but it just doesn't seem that easy right now.

[gromzie]

Danzo is kage-level or above, we know this, so why the hell would Sasuke have a easy time killing him? Including his 2 best bodyguards, probably about the strength of Yamato and Kakashi or more.


Although i have something to say, you notice this new team, right?

Yamato, Kakashi, Naruto. Now what do they have in common?

Mokuton/Hashirama Senju - Sakumo Hatake, stronger then the sannin, Konohas yellow flash + jinchuriki.

I mean, i could very well see them teaming up and getting a sort of nickname, and i know deep down that Kakashi will surpass his father, and his father was probably the same level as Jiraiya or more powerful as he was considered stronger than the sannin, wich speaks for itself. The sannin was 30~ years old, probably their prime.

I can see Yamato controlling his Mokuton better, getting abit more of the bijuu-control ability. Increase of chakra levels etc etc, well maybe even at the same level as Hashirama, if they now are getting nicked as something like (THIS IS JUST A CORNY EXAMPLE) *Insert random cool nick here* eg Konohas legendary sannin.

There 3 people are unique, we know kakashi needs to surpass his dad, every generation is stronger has been stated, yet to be proved true though. Yamato with his mokuton, and Naruto the main character insanely powerful as he's a Gama sennin / Jinchuriki, well above kage-level + jinchuriki powers.

Any thoughts of this? I can very well see this matchup and them being a "powerhouse team" just like the sannin.

Regarding the kage meeting, i gotta say Raikage is an arrogant shouting ignorant prick, jumping to conclusions and being a pissed off moron. God damn, he even shouts when Danzou says "I have something to tell you" then the guy rages "WHAT IS IT!?" Fuck man, i would punch his shouting face right there, well maybe not, provocing a war etc, but i would like to.

We will see Naruto as a subject in next chapter i guess, with this Raikage getting into his thick raging head that he probably are more powerful than him, so he can shut the f*ck up while near Naruto, seriously. THis guys going on my nerves with all the raging, doesn't matter if his brother is dead or not, shouldn't shout at innocent people, or jumping to conclusions such as "Sand used Orochimaru", it was the opposite, and Orochimaru wasn't part of Akatsuki then.

[gromzie]

And oh, i think everyone has missinterpreted this whole "Bijuu dies when jinchuriki dies". Well, this only applies to the kyuubi, seeing half of the kyuubi is sealed tight with Shiki Fuujin and if the other half gets out when Naruto dies, i don't think it's enough to ressurect, he'd need his other half.

Yin = Opposite of Yang, vice versa. Noone works without their Yang, and kyuubi probably only lives because of him being inside of Naruto. I don't know if anyone HERE assumed it, though i've seen it at alot of other forums, pisses me off. It's probably that the seal breaks when the user dies, and thus the beasts goes out.

[djray]

even if danzo is kage level im sure sasuke will be able to defeat him i just dont see danzo bein as capable as some akatsuki members

[Mjaut]

I rather see Sasuke as Danzo's puppet.

[djray]

how do u think danzo is going to use sasuke?

[Mjaut]

Same as how Kankuro will use Sasori.

[djray]

well sasuke wants to kill danzo and danzo wants sasuke dead sooo do u have any theories?
'

[Mjaut]

They'll ask someone to kill them.
Or maybe push one another from the mountain.

[Tank]

Mokuton/Hashirama Senju - Sakumo Hatake, stronger then the sannin, Konohas yellow flash + jinchuriki.

Kakashi's dad wasn't stronger than the Sannin, he was said to be on equal footing with them.

[Mjaut]

As for Sannins, dunno, except for Orochimaru, I wasn't so impressed with their abilities.

[gromzie]

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sakumo

"In battle, Sakumo was a truly powerful shinobi, his prowess(combat ability*) surpassing that of the Sannin."

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/17/ respect equal to that of the sannin, still. Kakashi isn't even near Orochimaru or Jiraiya.

Btw, you don't think Jiraiya was kind of strong? I mean, he would've probably taken down Pain if he wasn't cheapshotted by the Asura Path and knew there were 6 of them. He was alot stronger than what Naruto is able to control atleast.

* Rough translation, ability in combat, power, strength etc.

Jiraiya was one of the strongest characters in the series, even Itachi, knowing he had susano'o said he would be killed for sure if he engaged in battle. He might've gotten the items Totsuki and Yata after the time skip, but still being respected by Itachi like that. That atleast makes him immensely powerful, according to me.

Orochimaru was weak when Sasuke killed him, he used his New Body Jutsu or whatever it's called, the one where he spits himself out in a new body lots of times, but Sasuke barely managed 1. Orochimaru was weak even back then, albeit Sasuke had used chakra to use the dragon flame things in order for Kirin. Still Itachi commented on how much chakra it used. So we never really got to see Orochimaru fight with all he had, maybe we never will.

Jiraiya had no idea they only had 1 ability each, therefor it took some time for him to figure out that it was a summoner and an absorber. I bet they all would've been killed by Goemon. But hey, i don't expect people on this site to be able to gauge other peoples strength, i'm somewhat of a Naruto-manga nerd. :smile:

So yes; Sakumo Hatake was @ Jiraiyas level, maybe even all 3 of them, just like Hanzo, or he was above that level. Kakashi have yet to display such prowess. Yamato is a wannabe-Hashirama, but i don't see why he can't develop strong chakra etc to maximize his mokuton abilities. The 3-man team is a bunch of REALLY unique guys, it got to be something more to it, they've been spending so damn much time with eachother.

Atleast it's something worthy to think about. :):gj:



P.S, I don't think Sasuke can just beat someone @ Kage-level that easy, especially not someone with a sharingan, we don't know how good/bad Danzo's eye is, yet it's there for a purpose.

[djray]

even though kirabi killed sasuke 2 times kirabi did compliment him as one of the strongest hes ever fought against and i assume that includes his brother the raikage that compliment carries alot of weight since kirabi is probably top 3 strongest alive http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/419/17/

[Mjaut]

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sakumo

"In battle, Sakumo was a truly powerful shinobi, his prowess(combat ability*) surpassing that of the Sannin."

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/17/ respect equal to that of the sannin, still. Kakashi isn't even near Orochimaru or Jiraiya.

Btw, you don't think Jiraiya was kind of strong? I mean, he would've probably taken down Pain if he wasn't cheapshotted by the Asura Path and knew there were 6 of them. He was alot stronger than what Naruto is able to control atleast.

* Rough translation, ability in combat, power, strength etc.

Jiraiya was one of the strongest characters in the series, even Itachi, knowing he had susano'o said he would be killed for sure if he engaged in battle. He might've gotten the items Totsuki and Yata after the time skip, but still being respected by Itachi like that. That atleast makes him immensely powerful, according to me.

Orochimaru was weak when Sasuke killed him, he used his New Body Jutsu or whatever it's called, the one where he spits himself out in a new body lots of times, but Sasuke barely managed 1. Orochimaru was weak even back then, albeit Sasuke had used chakra to use the dragon flame things in order for Kirin. Still Itachi commented on how much chakra it used. So we never really got to see Orochimaru fight with all he had, maybe we never will.

Jiraiya had no idea they only had 1 ability each, therefor it took some time for him to figure out that it was a summoner and an absorber. I bet they all would've been killed by Goemon. But hey, i don't expect people on this site to be able to gauge other peoples strength, i'm somewhat of a Naruto-manga nerd. :smile:

So yes; Sakumo Hatake was @ Jiraiyas level, maybe even all 3 of them, just like Hanzo, or he was above that level. Kakashi have yet to display such prowess. Yamato is a wannabe-Hashirama, but i don't see why he can't develop strong chakra etc to maximize his mokuton abilities. The 3-man team is a bunch of REALLY unique guys, it got to be something more to it, they've been spending so damn much time with eachother.

Atleast it's something worthy to think about. :):gj:



P.S, I don't think Sasuke can just beat someone @ Kage-level that easy, especially not someone with a sharingan, we don't know how good/bad Danzo's eye is, yet it's there for a purpose.

I won't read this post because it's too long, but it's probably about how weak Sannins are.

[gromzie]

I won't read this post because it's too long, but it's probably about how weak Sannins are.

I wont read this, but it's probably a person who must always win an argument and are never wrong in any way, also, quotes that on someone elses post, even though they read it, in an attempt to humiliate. :nana::nono:

[Bankai - Ichigo]

And oh, i think everyone has missinterpreted this whole "Bijuu dies when jinchuriki dies". Well, this only applies to the kyuubi, seeing half of the kyuubi is sealed tight with Shiki Fuujin and if the other half gets out when Naruto dies, i don't think it's enough to ressurect, he'd need his other half.

Yin = Opposite of Yang, vice versa. Noone works without their Yang, and kyuubi probably only lives because of him being inside of Naruto. I don't know if anyone HERE assumed it, though i've seen it at alot of other forums, pisses me off. It's probably that the seal breaks when the user dies, and thus the beasts goes out.

Chiyo used her Tensei Ninjutsu to give up her life energy and revive Gaara with it, but he did still die first. And do you remember how he actually died? Shuukaku was extracted from him, and that killed him. So, yeah, having your Bijuu extracted from you does actually kill you.

But, yeah, I agree with your two more recent posts, but Djray's actually right on what he said. Killer Bee did say that, so Sasuke's really that strong.

[gromzie]

Chiyo used her Tensei Ninjutsu to give up her life energy and revive Gaara with it, but he did still die first. And do you remember how he actually died? Shuukaku was extracted from him, and that killed him. So, yeah, having your Bijuu extracted from you does actually kill you.

But, yeah, I agree with your two more recent posts, but Djray's actually right on what he said. Killer Bee did say that, so Sasuke's really that strong.

I think you got it wrong, i didn't write about the host dying when the Bijuu gets removed :smile:

I know full well that the HOST dies when the Bijuu escapes the host one way or another, but that does not mean the Bijuu dies when the host dies. Logically, they shouldnt.

Bijuu has been living for a loooong time and they are known as legendary, they shouldn't be able to simply "die". Though, dying is probably the same as getting sealed away forever, as the Kyuubi is atm, unless Naruto can reseal the Shiki Fuujin and making the Kyuubi able to get back to life.

I haven't said anything about Kirabi, but he owned the whole of team Hawk, i agree of him being super strong, as of one of the top 3? I don't know, i can't tell, but definitely the strongest seen so far.
And we can't gauge Sasukes power on just that fight, since he got owned real bad until the Amaterasu, there got to be a counter for that technique. No doubt Sasuke is powerful, but he died twice that fight.

And it was 3v1, Karin can't do shit, not counting her. I can see Sasuke being strong, but he's not, what i would call, there yet. He has yet to display the prowess, he relies on that stupid eyes to much, i like where it's been going tho, fire/lightning techniques, lots of ninjutsu and now lately some genjutsu, that's awesome, but he lacks something i don't know what, he seems rather weak and fragile to me.

Well, in my opinion; Sasuke will have problems with Danzo, even if he's old, he is a minimum of kage-level, otherwise he wouldn't even be answering that position, that would be ridiculous. Even with the mangekyou i don't think it will be a 2-minute fight, Danzo knows full well Sasuke knows, or may know, that Itachi or someone else told him about the Uchiha execution, wich would make him wanna kill Danzo, developing a counter for the sharingan (his own sharingan) or the mangekyou (unknown counter?) is only part of what we should expect.

Look at how he plans things out right now, everything plays right into his hands. Can't think of him being to stupid not to think Sasuke would come to kill him, really, being in contact with Itachi and even joining Akatsuki.

I really can't make any short posts, i have so much to say it's getting hard to explain it properly! :rolleyes:

[Mjaut]

Yagura died and Sanbi was still alive; well, only for Akatsuki to catch him, though.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I think you got it wrong, i didn't write about the host dying when the Bijuu gets removed :smile:

I know full well that the HOST dies when the Bijuu escapes the host one way or another, but that does not mean the Bijuu dies when the host dies. Logically, they shouldnt.

Bijuu has been living for a loooong time and they are known as legendary, they shouldn't be able to simply "die". Though, dying is probably the same as getting sealed away forever, as the Kyuubi is atm, unless Naruto can reseal the Shiki Fuujin and making the Kyuubi able to get back to life.

I haven't said anything about Kirabi, but he owned the whole of team Hawk, i agree of him being super strong, as of one of the top 3? I don't know, i can't tell, but definitely the strongest seen so far.
And we can't gauge Sasukes power on just that fight, since he got owned real bad until the Amaterasu, there got to be a counter for that technique. No doubt Sasuke is powerful, but he died twice that fight.

And it was 3v1, Karin can't do shit, not counting her. I can see Sasuke being strong, but he's not, what i would call, there yet. He has yet to display the prowess, he relies on that stupid eyes to much, i like where it's been going tho, fire/lightning techniques, lots of ninjutsu and now lately some genjutsu, that's awesome, but he lacks something i don't know what, he seems rather weak and fragile to me.

Well, in my opinion; Sasuke will have problems with Danzo, even if he's old, he is a minimum of kage-level, otherwise he wouldn't even be answering that position, that would be ridiculous. Even with the mangekyou i don't think it will be a 2-minute fight, Danzo knows full well Sasuke knows, or may know, that Itachi or someone else told him about the Uchiha execution, wich would make him wanna kill Danzo, developing a counter for the sharingan (his own sharingan) or the mangekyou (unknown counter?) is only part of what we should expect.

Look at how he plans things out right now, everything plays right into his hands. Can't think of him being to stupid not to think Sasuke would come to kill him, really, being in contact with Itachi and even joining Akatsuki.

I really can't make any short posts, i have so much to say it's getting hard to explain it properly! :rolleyes:

Well, Kyuubi told Naruto something that leads me to believe he'd die if it was taken out of Naruto, but yeah, I do agree with you that all the other Bijuu should stay alive after being extracted from its Host.

About Sasuke, yeah, he shouldn't be able to beat Danzou easily, for the same reasons as the ones you mentioned. But Killer Bee did still say that Sasuke's one of the strongest he's ever fought, and considering the fact that he's also fought his brother the Raikage (he did talk like he's fought against him some), you'd think Sasuke is up there with how strong the Raikage is.

[He's a Mentalist]

I don't think that statement made by Killerbee holds much truth to it. He beat Sauske 3 times in their battle. Not to mention he was basically playing around and faced 2 other opponents before Sauske.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Hm . . . so you think he was lying/joking? That's a definite possibility, yes.

[Mjaut]

Kankuro >>>>> Sage Naruto >>>>>>> Akatsuki >>>>>>>> Kages >>>>>> Taka

[AzureFeatherfly]

He has yet to display the prowess, he relies on that stupid eyes to much, i like where it's been going tho, fire/lightning techniques, lots of ninjutsu and now lately some genjutsu, that's awesome, but he lacks something i don't know what, he seems rather weak and fragile to me.

The Uchiha boy does not really lack anything, most people are just not used to his combat style compared to other many of the characters.

He is a finesse fighter. He will use all his abilities to go around/over/under his opponents' abilities until all the defenses are rendered useless therefore giving him a perfect shot to directly strike his opponent. His style relies on tactics more than anyone to compensate for his lack of endurance. There are not too many fighters like him compared to the guys that will bulldoze/overwhelm/run over their opponent.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I agree with all of that except I don't think Kankuro is stronger than Sage Naruto. I'd think they're either pretty much tied, or Sage Naruto might be a tiny bit stronger. Sage Mode + Kyuubi mode will definitely make him stronger than Kankuro though IMO.

Edit: One post late.

@Azure: Agreed.

[densetsu_eikyou]

How is Danzo Kage level? B/c he is hokage. They considered Kakashi to replace Tsunade and he isn't Kage level. I don't see any eveidence that Danzo is stronger than Kakashi. They both have MS. Neither seem like they are from the Uchiha clan (i don't know how danzo got his). I'm no Sasuke fan boy but the author has really built up his character. I'm pretty sure he can beat Kakashi so why would Danzo be any different?

[1 up and 2 down]

How is Danzo Kage level? B/c he is hokage. They considered Kakashi to replace Tsunade and he isn't Kage level. I don't see any eveidence that Danzo is stronger than Kakashi. They both have MS. Neither seem like they are from the Uchiha clan (i don't know how danzo got his). I'm no Sasuke fan boy but the author has really built up his character. I'm pretty sure he can beat Kakashi so why would Danzo be any different?


When was it revealed that Danzou has MS?

[Bankai - Ichigo]

I hasn't been shown or stated yet, we're just assuming he has it. We might as well be wrong though.

@Densetsu: Well, Kakashi was Kage level, or else Jiraiya wouldn't have said he's a great Hokage candidate. And also, looking at how Danzou defeated those assassins, you can bet he's not pushover. And, no, I'm not a Danzou fanboy.

[_NeaR_]

When was it revealed that Danzou has MS?

When he was ambushed, it zoomed in on his eye.

Quite frankly Ive had the feeling, ever since I saw Danzo, that he was truly Madara Uchiha in disguise controlling everything from the shadow's, including the Akatsuki. Sounds absurd if you think of what Danzo is doing for the village, but shoot, its also quite possible. Danzo is MADARA!!! Thats why he's missing an eye, he gave it to Obito(Tobi) for his other eye, hence why it looked the way it did, and which is why he want's his eye healed, so he can have ALL his power back. :amused:

[Mjaut]

I agree with all of that except I don't think Kankuro is stronger than Sage Naruto. I'd think they're either pretty much tied, or Sage Naruto might be a tiny bit stronger. Sage Mode + Kyuubi mode will definitely make him stronger than Kankuro though IMO.


Well, to be honest, I was just joking about Kankuro being stronger than Sage Naruto.
But, I do believe he's (Kankuro) a lot more powerful than during part when Gaara was kidnaped, mainly because his new doll is undoubtely Sasori and maybe Third Kazekage.

And just to add, about Sage Naruto...
It is highly likely that in next 50, OK, 100 chapters this ability will become, maybe not useless, but more that will help Naruto stay longer alive, than actually deadly.
Kinda like Tensa Zangetsu, which is currently prety much useless without mask.

EDIT: About Yagura; it's not that it bothers me much, but it would be cool if he didn't ended up as Kage, as young as he was.
Until then Gaara was kinda unique as youngest Kage.
Well, Yagura is dead, so it doesn't mean too much anymore...

And this was probably asked already, but I don't have time nor will to search for it...
3rd and 4th Hokages.

Did they in charge of Konoha in the same or something else?
It seems like Minato was Hokage before Hiruzen, but for some reason the latter was Third Hokage and continued to be even after Fourth's death.

[vastroLordeIchigo]

i guess they were both hokages at the same time like the 1st and 2nd

[Felixus]

If Danzo does have the MS, think his eye might look the way it does because its reaching its limits on its power from being overused and is starting to show symptoms? I mean come on, look at that thing. It looks like its ready to pop and squirt blood all over the place. Well anyways, I would be suprised if he didn't have the MS, everyone else has it now, would be kind of overestimating Danzo's potential as Hokage if he didn't.

I also doubt the Sage Mode will become somewhat useless like they Tensa Zangetsu. He defeated Pain with it and Pain is as strong as they come, well almost anyways. Only people that would present a challenge is Sasuke, whats left of Akatuski and the Kages, or some super-awesome ninja that hasn't been revealed yet. But remember that Sage mode has its limits. So with great power, it has that big downside to it aswell.

As for who was Hokage at what time, well if I remember correctly.. The third was Hokage until the Minato came in, then the third stepped down into retirement. But resumed the position after Minato died cause of trouble finding one or something like that. You do raise a good point though if there can be more than 1 kage calling the shots. I guess it depends on how the village is run. Danzo did seem to regard Tsunade as if she had no power whatsoever over the village politics when the cloud ninja tried delivering that letter to Shizune. So I guess that there is only one of them allowed to be on top. Its a good thing though cause if there were two in charge then disagreements would be hard to settle.

[L]

Great chapter. I thought it'd be borin too.

Gaara's awesome. xP So young yet he was so assertive and calm. Love how he pissed off the Tsuchikage.

[Mikeno]

I'm not sure there is a "Kage" level.. it's a political position.. the Kage doesn't necessarily have to be the most powerful ninja in their village.. just the wisest and the one who has the village's best interests at heart.. but anyway Kakashi is plenty powerful.. not like the first Hokage.. but then which Hokage since then has been..? Some will say the 4th but I don't think so..

[Lnrd]

About the "Kage level" thing- Kage Level = S-Class Level. That much should be obvious.

About Kakashi being "Kage Level"- Would anyone seriously say Kakashi isn't S-class level? Kakashi took on two fellow S-class fighters (Hidan and Kakuzu) and still survived. He also took on Pain's strongest body and managed to stay alive long enough to take out Asura Path.

I'm not sure there is a "Kage" level.. it's a political position.. the Kage doesn't necessarily have to be the most powerful ninja in their village.. just the wisest and the one who has the village's best interests at heart.. but anyway Kakashi is plenty powerful.. not like the first Hokage.. but then which Hokage since then has been..? Some will say the 4th but I don't think so..
Agreed with bold. S-class level has shown to be just as ridiculously huge as the captain-class. Kakashi is like Toshiro in Bleach, both are/were child prodigies. But, put Kakashi (Toshiro) up angainst the First Hokage (Aizen). And this happens.http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9/95589069.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/) He'd get KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT!

And, yeah the 1st was definitely the strongest Hokage. (Atleast stronger than the 2nd and 4th. I'd bet 3rd aswell.) Remember the 4th said he couldn't stop Madara when he was talking to Naruto? And, we all know who's stronger between the 1st and Madara.

P.S. If Tobirama (2nd Hokage) was stronger than Hashirama (1st), why would he not have lead the Senju Clan? That's why I believe the 1st was stronger but by only a little bit.

[He's a Mentalist]

Why is Kankuro so powerful now?

[Lnrd]

^I'm wondering the same thing as well.

EDIT: Even if his new doll is Sasori, more than likely Gaara will still be the stronger of the two. And, more than likely Gaara is still on the lower end of S-Class with Deidara, Kakuzu, Hidan, and Kakashi.

[gromzie]

Hiruzen "The Professor" Sarutobi, now i only wrote it that way to make no mistakes. He was considered the strongest Kage, and yes Kage-level is somewhat like a Captain, Hitsugaya vs Aizen, perfect. He survived vs Hashirama and Tobirama, and he killed them both once aswell, at the age of 68-69. And if i don't remember wrong Orochimaru said he was praised as being the strongest kage of them all, or was that only in the anime? Also I bet Tsuchikage was one mother god powerful guy, he's still a kage at that age, just like Hiruzen.

And yes Kage-level is somewhat like a Captain, Hitsugaya vs Aizen, perfect.
Kakashi is weaker than all of the previous kages, therefor not really Mid-tier, or what i would say normally kage-level.

Forgot what the fuck we were talking about, i went AFK. My point is, only the kyuubi would die if Naruto died, not the other bijuu, if kirabi died, i bet the 8-tails breaks out alive.

[1 up and 2 down]

When he was ambushed, it zoomed in on his eye.

Quite frankly Ive had the feeling, ever since I saw Danzo, that he was truly Madara Uchiha in disguise controlling everything from the shadow's, including the Akatsuki. Sounds absurd if you think of what Danzo is doing for the village, but shoot, its also quite possible. Danzo is MADARA!!! Thats why he's missing an eye, he gave it to Obito(Tobi) for his other eye, hence why it looked the way it did, and which is why he want's his eye healed, so he can have ALL his power back. :amused:


That is a regular Sharingan, and don't say it's MS because it is bloodshot. We know that Danzou wanted Orochimaru's information so that he could heal his eye and arm. So obviously there is something wrong with it.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/454/17/
^ Danzou saying Orochimaru's data will be useful for his right eye and arm.

I think if it turns out that Danzou does have a MS, his bloodshot eye won't be an indicator of it.

[Lnrd]

Hiruzen "The Professor" Sarutobi, now i only wrote it that way to make no mistakes. He was considered the strongest Kage, and yes Kage-level is somewhat like a Captain, Hitsugaya vs Aizen, perfect. He survived vs Hashirama and Tobirama, and he killed them both once aswell, at the age of 68-69. And if i don't remember wrong Orochimaru said he was praised as being the strongest kage of them all, or was that only in the anime? Also I bet Tsuchikage was one mother god powerful guy, he's still a kage at that age, just like Hiruzen.

And yes Kage-level is somewhat like a Captain, Hitsugaya vs Aizen, perfect.
Kakashi is weaker than all of the previous kages, therefor not really Mid-tier, or what i would say normally kage-level.

Forgot what the fuck we were talking about, i went AFK. My point is, only the kyuubi would die if Naruto died, not the other bijuu, if kirabi died, i bet the 8-tails breaks out alive.
Agreed with all points responded from my earlier post. But when you said Hiruzen was regarded as the strongest kage I don't remember it being stated in the manga. I believe it was stated in the very 1st Naruto databook, however many things have changed since then. Like how everyone in Part 1 kinda considered the 4th to be the strongest shiniobi ever to be produced in Konoha, but now we have proof that shows the 1st was indeed stronger than him. (Well I guess that would still hold since Hashirama wasn't "produced" in Konoha.)

EDIT- Please realize that Sarutobi didn't take on the real 1st and 2nd Hokages. We definitely didn't see jutsu coming from the 1st in that fight comparable to this...http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1706/1011w.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/) So I'm sure that wasn't the 2nd's full power aswell. If we were to take that fight seriously, it would mean Orochimaru > 1st and 2nd Hokages which obviously isn't the case.

[gromzie]

That was the point i left out because i went AFK, i was gonna say we didn't know if that was their true power, it might've been if Sarutobi now was the strongest Hokage, but on the other hand Hashirama is said or believed to be the strongest because of that page you just added, i have a hard time seeing Hiruzen make it out of that alive, although we can't gauge the third ever i guess, we haven't seen him in his youth. But on the other hand, i believe them to be really alot weaker than they used to be. My bad :)


Though it was pointed that he could finish Orochimaru off even though he is a sannin and was about 40 years old at that encounter, Hiruzen was what? 58 or something? I don't know their age, but Hiruzen might've been somewhere around Hashiramas level for sure.

About that Yondaime thing, that's another thing, Now what the fuck? IS hiruzen the strongest, is Hashirama the strongest or is Minato the strongest?

Serious fuck up by Kishimoto here, or it's simply misstranslations. Might be, since Hiruzen was produced by Konoha aswell, it was founded allready when Hash and Tobi trained him.

And about that databook, well i have no idea, he was stated to be the strongest Hokage, there might be this loophole Kishi added, like; oh well they won't see his true power when Hiruzen was in his prime so this sums his power up. That would make him unbelievably strong, even stronger than Hashirama and that would be ridiculous.

Hashirama had an edge in that fight being able to turn the Kyuubi to himself, or render him useless in the battle, i don't know wich, but he didn't fight the kyuubi head on. My interpretation of the whole kyuubi thing is that it's power is totally unmatched, but he can be controlled, to bad he got met by Hashiramas powers first and then Shiki Fuujin the second one. I'd like to see this unmatched power / ultimate chakra sometime.

Hopefully i'm clear, it's hard to make a clear point in this load of text, point it out, and i'll try to clear up what i meant. :smile:

[Mikeno]

About the "Kage level" thing- Kage Level = S-Class Level. That much should be obvious.


lol.. I know that the mention of "Kage-level" was an allusion to S-class.. but why not just say S-class..? Does everyone need to now be questioned in their ability to become a Kage..? It's trivial I know was just wondering why and when did S-class become a synonym for Kage..

[maxime1007]

lol.. I know that the mention of "Kage-level" was an allusion to S-class.. but why not just say S-class..? Does everyone need to now be questioned in their ability to become a Kage..? It's trivial I know was just wondering why and when did S-class become a synonym for Kage..

If you like it better this way, people who are hokage are at least S-class, tough not every S-class are kage.

[densetsu_eikyou]

I'm pretty sure minato/ the 4th hokage is still the strongest. The reasons the first hokage could be a candidiate are a) he beat madarma and b) he beat nine-tails (or beat madarma who was controling nine tails). as for the first point who says Madama is the same strength now as he was when he fought the first Hokage. After 70+ years unless he got weaker from age which there is no sign of, one would think Madara is much stronger than he was when he fought the first Hokage. The first also could control Bijuu like Madara and thus could nullify the nine-tails with the wood. The fake first Yamoto has the ability to a lesser degree but it is specific to the first. W/o such an ability who says the first could do better than the fourth who died sealing the thing.

[AzureFeatherfly]

Agreed with all points responded from my earlier post. But when you said Hiruzen was regarded as the strongest kage I don't remember it being stated in the manga. I believe it was stated in the very 1st Naruto databook, however many things have changed since then. Like how everyone in Part 1 kinda considered the 4th to be the strongest shiniobi ever to be produced in Konoha, but now we have proof that shows the 1st was indeed stronger than him. (Well I guess that would still hold since Hashirama wasn't "produced" in Konoha.)

The Sandaime Hokage:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/94/13/

The Yondaime Hokage:

He was said to be the most talented/gifted Shinobi produced by Konoha, not the most powerful. If he had actually reached in his prime, then he might get the "most powerful" title.

[Mikeno]

If you like it better this way, people who are hokage are at least S-class, tough not every S-class are kage.

Well the Hokages we can discern have all been S-class.. but it hasn't been called Hokage level just Kage level.. I just think S-class would suffice.. no need to have two watered down terms meaning the exact same thing..

[_NeaR_]

@Mikeno- Kage is a Political position and a Ninja Rank. The Kage is basically like the 5 Star General of a Countries Ninja Army, but also holds political power as a type of Mayor for that country's Ninja City. As to the second question, about the power thing. I think Minato was as powerful as the first, aside from the fact that the First basically invented the Wood element. The Fourth invented the Rasengan and a couple others.

@Mjaut- The 3rd kept his title as the 3rd when he replaced Minato as Hokage because it was his former position. Once a Kage, you stay a kage. So if he was still alive when Tsunade dies(d), if she will, he'd replace her as the 3rd Hokage still, because he was once previously a Hokage and that title would stay standing until he died, even then it'd stay with him, but you get what I mean xD.

[Lnrd]

Well the Hokages we can discern have all been S-class.. but it hasn't been called Hokage level just Kage level.. I just think S-class would suffice.. no need to have two watered down terms meaning the exact same thing..

I understand what your saying, but like _NeaR_ said it's a political position and rank. Imo it would have been better if the term "S-Class" was never introduced. Instead it would have only been Kage level.

For example: When we were introduced to Akatsuki they said it was composed of S-Class missing ninjas. It would have been better if Kishi wrote, "composed of Kage level missing ninjas", because then we have the Orochimaru vs. Sarutobi battle to compare their level to and it suggest that each member can fight at an extremely high level meaning jounin level and below don't compare.

EDIT:

So here's my breakdown of the S-Class/ Kage level relationship.


All Kages are S-Class.
All S-Class aren't Kages.
All S-Class are strong enough to be Kages.

[gromzie]

I agree with LNRD, just as we would say that Naruto probably were Jounin-level after he killed Kakuzu with Fuuton: Rasenshuriken, or was it before? I don't know, can't say Naruto was kage-level only to beat Kakuzu, but Kakuzu was definitely kage. Oh well, nvm.

The ninja system is a ranking of positions of political power, and decisions, it's also a power measuring system, as in individual strength. That's why the referring to "kage-level" strong to be challenging the kage, eg a threat.

It's also pointed out you have to be strong in order to become Hokage, but there's definitely a rank above Kage aswell, somewhere along the lines of Pain, or (I don't really know if i should consider them but) Hiruzen, Orochi and Jiraiya where incredibly strong probably would be able to beat Pain if they were in their prime, including the information Naruto had. Do we even have a name for such power? Like, jinchuriki-sage-naruto? I mean, we can't consider him Kage level, that would be ridiculous, a kage can't compare to Kirabi even the slightest. Imo.

[Apple84]

lol...Sai scored once again!!! Kishi surely knows how to work with Sai in character..lol. mannn just looking at his face expression cracks me up and that pooor guy still is confused as ever yet he has basic understanding through people's emotion after all. btw...whatever Sai refered to when he said that Naruto is bound by the same curse as he is...?? refresh my memory anyone, i know Sai is cursed not to say out the anbu's secret since Danzou put that curse on his tongue, could that be it? i read off from mangashare by Binktopia translation since its much better and precise and clear.


i swear i didn't though Sai would bring up the part Naruto loves her at the end of his conversation to Sakura, i thought he'll stop at the part when he mention Naruto got beat up and couldn't kept his promises..etc. but not to bring up the confession for Naruto loving Sakura! that's a hugeeee beat up for Sai from Naruto once he finds out! lol


and banzaiiiiiii for Gaaaaaaaaaraaaa!!!!! lol such a kool and calm guy now ever since his bijuu has taken out of him yet he can pull off being the rocking Kazekage...yerhhh!!! sheeshhhh and Danzo...sheshhhhh...don't even want to go there, damrn him and his silent smirking face., suprisingly why did he told everyone that Madara is the leader of Akatsuki? seems like the Raikage knows what's going on with Danzo being the one using Akatsuki as a target during the war.

[_NeaR_]

That is a regular Sharingan, and don't say it's MS because it is bloodshot. We know that Danzou wanted Orochimaru's information so that he could heal his eye and arm. So obviously there is something wrong with it.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/454/17/
^ Danzou saying Orochimaru's data will be useful for his right eye and arm.

I think if it turns out that Danzou does have a MS, his bloodshot eye won't be an indicator of it.

Well I checked it again and you were right. He only had a normal Sharingan, but, as common speculation says, he will most likely have the Mangyekou. He seems to have had to kill on of his own, or something to that extent, and I really don't believe he would keep it under the bandages if it weren't for the soul purpose of have him not suffer from the effects of having the Sharingan active 100% of the time. Its never given if he does always have it on but it can be assumed to be as well as not.

I think really all we can do is assume for what we want xD Kishimoto will give us what he wants and when he wants it. He just have to wait for it.

[Dumbledore]

Years of character development have the potential to go down the drain.

[Mjaut]

You know, I've been thinking, him being Sage maybe Naruto already know exact location of Sasuke and other members of Taka, except for (maybe) Karin, because she's a Chakra-girl (stupid example) and probably knows how to 100% covers hers Chakra.

And yes, I believe that Naruto has access to some Sage abilities even when he's not in a full Sage mode, with a frogy eyes, and all...

[_NeaR_]

You may be right Mjaut, though I don't feel Naruto has the concentration to do that by himself. Sure he developed some concentration by becoming a Sage, but still, he's Naruto.

On another note...Some one in this thread gave me bad rep and neglected to tell me who they were. This is annoying. If you are going to do something so dumb as to give me a bad rep with this as a reason, "Sooo wrong" then at least name drop yourself so I can know who did it. Coward. -.-

[Mjaut]

I always ignore those neg reps.
If those annonimous guys did knew how much I pay attention to their neg reps, they'd never write me anything.

Anyway, what would I also like, is to see Naruto and Gaara fight back to back agains...
Well, anyone.

[_NeaR_]

I just want a name...so i know who did it... Thats all. xD

That would be sick :D NAruto and Gaara together would be so amazing

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Yeah, I too want to see them fight back to back.

And, yeah, Lnrd and Near are exactly right about the whole Kage and S-class deal.

By the way, about Naruto, I don't think he's "the" Naruto anymore. That was only when he was the kid who couldn't do anything. He's come a really long way from back then. And he's even a Toad Sage now. Sure, his concentration may not be that good yet, but he's a hell of a lot more powerful now. Definitely in the Kage range, especially in Sage Mode plus Kyuubi chakra. I mean, he may not be ready for the position of Hokage yet, but he sure as hell already has the power needed for it.

About the curse that was mentioned on the previous page, I think Sai was saying to Sakura that she's a curse to Naruto, since she forced him (Naruto) to promise that he'd bring Sasuke back to Konoha, and now that promise is forcing him to suffer (of course, we know that it's that promise because of Sakura's memories that are shown; Sai has no idea what the promise was).

[djray]

When he was ambushed, it zoomed in on his eye.

Quite frankly Ive had the feeling, ever since I saw Danzo, that he was truly Madara Uchiha in disguise controlling everything from the shadow's, including the Akatsuki. Sounds absurd if you think of what Danzo is doing for the village, but shoot, its also quite possible. Danzo is MADARA!!! Thats why he's missing an eye, he gave it to Obito(Tobi) for his other eye, hence why it looked the way it did, and which is why he want's his eye healed, so he can have ALL his power back. :amused:

i think i negged u on this...do you feel better now?

[Infinitekaos]

Everyone is pretty near maxed out on rep anyway, it shouldn't matter whether you're negged or not.

Anyway. I'm looking forward to seeing Danzo fight Sasuke. I just have a feeling that Sasuke will lose. I don't have much evidence to back that up, but for some reason I think Kishi will want to show people that Danzo is indeed not a push over and has the power to be Hokage. It's just he's a shady guy. And like I said before, I continue to forsee Sasuke eventually getting the EMS and a loss to someone like Danzo would certainly push him in that direction.