Kenpachi vs Grimmjow

[densetsu_eikyou]

Originally Posted by Levy

Whether or not someone doesn't give it 100% on purpose or someone is throwing a fight, this doesn't change that the winner won and loser lost. There is no, well I didn't lose cuz i didn't go kendo on you. I played badminton vs a girl and obviously I didn't go all out because it would suck for both of us (I was a lot better than her) yet because of that she won that game and I lost, call it fluke carelessness or me giving it willingly to her I don't care, she won and I lost. Winning and losing doesn't take into account how you did it, it just states the final result of a *confrontation*.

Btw, it's pretty obvious zaraki was *throwing the fight* since the beginning, eyepatch, bells in hair, using 1 hand so no he wasn't going all out. He got beat 1 sword strike after taking off his eyepatch, that's all.

You gave her the win. My point exactly. You knew you were better, so not to hurt her feelings you went easy on her and possibly purposely lost. You are saying Zaraki gave Ichigo the win. Zaraki threw the fight. Zaraki stated he came to kill Ichigo several times but he threw the fight. Zaraki could have had his sword broken and still won by still standing. He could have said something like "You broke my sword, that's pretty good or its never happened before" Unless he threw the fight (not tried to get Ichigo up to a level where he is worth fighting) he went all out. The bells were meaningless they both ran towards each other and his eyepatch was off. The only reason anyone believes he was holding back is b/c of Kendo nonsense.

Again, nowhere does it says he's using all his power, he said he's using all the reiatsu that was waste on the eyepatch to kill ichigo. All his power is not all his reiatsu. All his power would included kendo and whatever else he might have that we don't know.

bold part:

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...2-page-14.html

Also the Byakuya vs ichigo fight, we know for a fact Byakuya wasn't going all out, yet he still went down and his sword broke.

All his power is all his reitsu. Reitsu=power. They are ghosts. That is why kendo makes no sense. It didn't increase reitsu and according to Zaraki reitsu cuts reitsu.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/105/07/
That is all there is too it. Does Kendo increase reitsu? If it doesn't it doesn't matter. And Byakuya didn't go down. He shunpo'ed away. That is how we know he was holding back. He still has power to stand and shunpo.

[samir12]

Originally Posted by Shūkei hakuteiken

Doesn't matter either way; if it did break (which means he was close to death), then he was holding back a ton since he shunpoed away AND took a direct hit from Gin's shikai.

How can he hold back a ton when he used his most powerful move against Ichigo, Its pretty stupid to hold back when you close to death and Ichigo was still able to move (he was able to go charge at Aizen) so wasn't he holding back?

But Im not going to debate any further on this as it is offtopic and no use debating against Byakuya fans.

[Paragon]

Originally Posted by Shūkei hakuteiken

Doesn't matter either way; if it did break (which means he was close to death), then he was holding back a ton since he shunpoed away AND took a direct hit from Gin's shikai.

Not really. Mayuri's broke his own Zanpaktou yet he wasn't suddenly on the brink of death. Ichigo had his Zanpaktou broken against Kenpachi during the early stages of their fight and it wasn't that course of action that nearly killed him but the stab he received right afterwards and loss of blood.

Originally Posted by samir12

How can he hold back a ton when he used his most powerful move against Ichigo, Its pretty stupid to hold back when you close to death and Ichigo was still able to move (he was able to go charge at Aizen) so wasn't he holding back?

But Im not going to debate any further on this as it is offtopic and no use debating against Byakuya fanboys.

Fixed.

[Shūkei hakuteiken]

There's a difference between pointing out a character is underestimated and being a "fanboy". I've never said flat out "Byakuya is stronger than Ichigo" or Shunsui, Unohana, Ukitake, Yamamoto, or any senior captain, I've always said that the gap between "high tier" and "mid tier" and virtually all the captains is not as big as many think. I also believe Mayuri is underestimated in many aspects, such as shunpo where he's already been shown to be efficient at. Komamura is underestimated as well. Byakuya is the only person who's bankai we've seen has multiple forms, he has cast kido up to level #81 without incantations and is regarded as the most efficient at using some types, and was personally taught techniques by the former black ops commander. These feats don't make him invincible by any means but he is certainly close to high tier. Those are just facts, not being a fanboy.

In bleach the only two shinigami one can say with 100% certainty are stronger than the rest are Yamamoto and Aizen.

[grimmjow pantre]

Originally Posted by Oxyuranus

Ok, well there are bunch of flaws here. First off being that Zommi would win, potentialy and only because his hax, in theory could win aginst anyone. Control the head and done with. Of cource there is debate whether or not he reiatsu levels mean anything with that ability but its safe to assume no because he locked onto byakyua's arm and leg.

As for Grim, considering that espada rankings portray their deadiness, its safe to assume that noi's attacks punched a hell of alot more punch. You do recall what Noi's attacks did to kenpachi right? Sure, they ran him through but he laughed them off. Kenpachi's endurance tanked them and those hits didnt slow him down at all. basicly I say this because Noi's attacks should be considered a hell of alot more powerful then Grimjows. Meaning that he cant one hit kill Kenpachi. He would have to DOT him.

Now, here is why Grim fails. First, Noi's cero should be considered stronger and Kenpachi palmed it with ease. That pretty much negates the long range attacks in my book. Sure Grims ae more numerous but still, Zaraki can deflect them useing Noi as a gauge. Secondly, you grossly underestimate Kenpachi's reaction time. Do you forget that he was able to react to hit that already hit him, before rthey were able to do anything sever and while with all of his sense but touch taken away? Remeber the Tousen fight? The same Tousen who cut off Grims arm I might add? kenpachi will have use of all senses. he will also not just sit there and not react to attacks in the hidden training grounds stipulation. If you think Kenpachi cant react to Grims attacks, your wrong. Third, though Grim has the long range attacks, the rest of his attacks are melee. getting close to Kenpachi means getting grabbed, as he has shown to be capable of doing, agaiin, aginst both tousen and Noi. Grim getting grabbed is almost certin death.

Zaraki isnt slow. hes not Ichigo fast of cource but hes not a mountain unable to move either. using what we have seen kenpachi do and then equateing the potential kenpachi has if he took anything seriously, its pretty safe to assume Grim is fubar.

My vote goes Zaraki.

Damn, that was alot of writing for a thread almost certin to be erased because I am fairly sure its been done before, though maybe only in a Grim + somone else vs Zaraki+ somone else thread.

about that, to be perfectly honest you are right that kenpachi is fast and he packs one hel of a puch but grimm is as fast is ichigo and is able to stop ichigo's gestuga tensho with little hardship. And since kenpachi lost to ichigo when ichigo was only using his sheiki and grimmjow beat the crab out of ichigo 2 times when ichigo was using his banki and hollow mask in the second fight. so if you think about it grimmjow should be able to beat kenpachi. And about the kenpachi vs. Tosen thing tosen was not expecting kenpachi to react while being sashed meaning tosen was cought of guard and when Tosen cut off grimmjows arm, grimmjow was not expecting his comanding officer to do something like that. so Tosen cought grimmjow off grard. Grimmjow has his speed and the fact that he himself can take one hell of a hit; like when he took a drect hit from ichigo's gestuga tensho and acted like it was nothing and grimmjow can fire one cero from each hand and he is able to use all his lims to atack. grimmjow has maltipule adventages over Kenpachi.


that really is alot to right.....wow... :)

[CakeSpoon]

Originally Posted by grimmjow pantre

about that, to be perfectly honest you are right that kenpachi is fast and he packs one hel of a puch but grimm is as fast is ichigo and is able to stop ichigo's gestuga tensho with little hardship. And since kenpachi lost to ichigo when ichigo was only using his sheiki and grimmjow beat the crab out of ichigo 2 times when ichigo was using his banki and hollow mask in the second fight. so if you think about it grimmjow should be able to beat kenpachi. And about the kenpachi vs. Tosen thing tosen was not expecting kenpachi to react while being sashed meaning tosen was cought of guard and when Tosen cut off grimmjows arm, grimmjow was not expecting his comanding officer to do something like that. so Tosen cought grimmjow off grard. Grimmjow has his speed and the fact that he himself can take one hell of a hit; like when he took a drect hit from ichigo's gestuga tensho and acted like it was nothing and grimmjow can fire one cero from each hand and he is able to use all his lims to atack. grimmjow has maltipule adventages over Kenpachi.


that really is alot to right.....wow... :)

Zaraki can barehand Nnoitra's cero, so Grimm can't rely on them.

Grimm took a GT, but Zaraki's kendo cut Nnoitra in half, so Grimm can't rely on Hierro.

Grimm can use all limbs to attack, but Ichigo caught his arm like it was nothing, so his strength is most likely less than Zaraki's.

Grimm CAN ,however, fly. Zaraki cannot touch him if he's in the air, & Gran Rey Cero & Desgarrion, while not one-shotting Zaraki, would take their toll..... eventually.

On the other-hand, if Grimm came in close, Zaraki would tear him in half with kendo.

[samir12]

Kenpachi doesn't even need kendo imo, hes cutting Yammy's fingers off like butter.

[CakeSpoon]

Originally Posted by samir12

Kenpachi doesn't even need kendo imo, hes cutting Yammy's fingers off like butter.

Kendo, or no kendo, doesn't really matter. If Zaraki hits, both will tear through Grimmjow. If he doesn't hit, neither will do anything.

So it's still a case of strong vs fast & melee vs long-ranged.

[Soujirou]

Oh my god, when I voted, I forgot the fact that WHILE GRIMMJOW CAN FLY, KENPACHI CAN NOT!

And since here on the battle grounds, everyone uses the most effective, not flashy, tactic to win, Grimmjow takes it, since the most Kenpachi can do is try to jump up and slice him, or throw debris at him lol.

[samir12]

Originally Posted by Soujirou

Oh my god, when I voted, I forgot the fact that WHILE GRIMMJOW CAN FLY, KENPACHI CAN NOT!

And since here on the battle grounds, everyone uses the most effective, not flashy, tactic to win, Grimmjow takes it, since the most Kenpachi can do is try to jump up and slice him, or throw debris at him lol.

So Grimmjow can win just because he can fly.... So why didn't Ichigo win against Yammy? He can fly and is more powerful than Grimmjow, yet Kenpachi is taking fingers off Yammy where as Ichigo just barely made blood come out.