Bleach Chapter 489 Discussion

[snqrls]

Another essay... so is this golden week or what?

[cronik]

apparently.

even though golden week is actually NEXT week.

manga stream still says nothing til early may-ish, but i think they got their weeks wrong and don't realize there's another publication before break.

[TimidObserver]

Originally Posted by mkewell83

At some point the quincy must have been informed by SS of the potential harm their destruction of hollows represented. After that they made the conscious decision to continue this practice at which point SS snuffed them from existence (or gave it their best shot).

If what Mayuri said to Uryu is true, then the SS went well beyond just eradicating the Quincy.

The SS is the bad guy in this to me. It doesn't seem like they sent Shinigami to stop the Quincy that were causing trouble. I imagine that not all of them were all on a hollow killing spree. It sounds like they attempted to end Quincy existence entirely and indiscriminately( and occassionally dissected, tested on, mutilated, and tortured them if Mayuri can be believed.)

[mkewell83]

Originally Posted by TimidObserver

If what Mayuri said to Uryu is true, then the SS went well beyond just eradicating the Quincy.

The SS is the bad guy in this to me. It doesn't seem like they sent Shinigami to stop the Quincy that were causing trouble. I imagine that not all of them were all on a hollow killing spree. It sounds like they attempted to end Quincy existence entirely and indiscriminately( and occassionally dissected, tested on, mutilated, and tortured them if Mayuri can be believed.)

I think it makes more sense for the sadism to have been restricted to Mayuri and perhaps a few of his researchers. When it was decided that the Quincy couldn't be trusted to not kill hollows Mayuri probably just asked Yamamo...you know it's funny I just realized, or maybe remembered, that the Quincy extermination was well before the science and research institute even existed. So for Mayuri to have Quincy to experiment on there had to have been decent numbers running around decades after they should've all been dead. What's more it didn't seem like they were in hiding fearful to come out lest the shinigami find them and finish what they started. Rather they seemed to be more like the dregs of a thoroughly conquered nation.

Anyway my point seems to be that the fact there were enough Quincies to sate Mayuri's thirst for knowledge and pain seems to suggest that either the shinigami were very sloppy in their genocide (letting Quincy run around breeding for over a century) or their intention was never truly to eradicate the Quincy, just to show them that destroying spirits is serious business and make sure they never dared to get seriously organized again.

Originally Posted by Ether101

And the opposite is possible as well, the balance is a myth created by the Shinigami to justify their rule which is something that's actually happened in real life as well.

I can honestly say this never even crossed my mind before now. And I'm really not sure how I would feel about it if KT pulled something like that.

What would even be the rationale behind such a deception? SS seems authoritarian enough that if they wanted to be the only ones allowed to kill spirits they could just claim that right, but if the balance didn't exist why would they even care who else was taking out hollows? Fear of another organization becoming as strong as them? Maybe, but that doesn't fit Yama's character at all and I'd think he'd have to be involved in a controversy that big.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness (not really).

[cronik]

it's the systems of control thing, and kubo has been pointing towards it for a long time. ichigo is your classic anti-establishment hero character, and SS is pretty much the embodiment of The System.

Ether's approach is a variation on it though... i've always looked at the balance thing as a "necessary evil" instead of "artificial construct intended for control".

We can only hope kubo tackles that whole thing, and does it well enough to be more than a crappy cliche/matrix spinoff.

[<_AmaterasU_>]

What is also interesting me is not only the quincy/vandenreich backstory and history ( where the hell have they been all these years), but their abilities.

Some thoughts/observations

- The normal soldiers had a quincy cross shaped like a pentacle but without the circle (just like Ivan), while Kirge's has a circle. So obv more elaborate cross = more power, but I wonder if there exists even more powerful crosses.

- I also think tht these guys are so much more than regular quincy in their fighting style. Given what we know about quincy fighting style so far, a bow is the main weapon. However Kirge forges a fully fledged sword (albeit with arrow like projectiles). and it wasn't no flimsy seele schneider either

- Also how did the king kill Ivan and the other dude...its almost like he flicked a finger and BOOM, headshot lol also i just don't see him fighting with a bow for some reason...he looks too badass to even hold a bow lol can't wait to see him actually fighting

- What are these shadows? Doesn't seem quincy like...

- If Ivan was an arrancar, how come he had a bow and medallion. can just anyway get one of those and have quincy powers??

The vandenreich could be extremist/rogue/elite quincy and not the regular quincy we've come to know...then again its still too early to tell

[Wookster]

The Quincy could be like the sith. Hide in plain sight (or an ice palace in another dimension).

[skycrapper]

Originally Posted by pumpkin13

yes but ten year plans tend to get scaled back rapidly when they lose the funding cus their story is so fucking shit.

If Kubo has to stop Bleach due to financial issues, then he'd be better AT LEAST end the story.

Not hanging unending like Clamp's "X".

[m2licee]

Are we sure there is no release this week? does anyone know what issue this week's Jump is? Because i'm on the WSJ site and it says One Piece has a Colour Cover and Lead page, and i haven't read a One Piece chapter with a colour page for the past 40 chapters, could it be this week's chapter that has the colour page?

Someone tell me what issue this week's jump is or would have been, or better yet what issue was last week's jump.

Cronik you are probably right, there might be a release this week(hopeful)

(5mins later) Apparently there is no WSJ this week. Sad.

[Bankai - Ichigo]

Originally Posted by mkewell83

I think it makes more sense for the sadism to have been restricted to Mayuri and perhaps a few of his researchers. When it was decided that the Quincy couldn't be trusted to not kill hollows Mayuri probably just asked Yamamo...you know it's funny I just realized, or maybe remembered, that the Quincy extermination was well before the science and research institute even existed. So for Mayuri to have Quincy to experiment on there had to have been decent numbers running around decades after they should've all been dead. What's more it didn't seem like they were in hiding fearful to come out lest the shinigami find them and finish what they started. Rather they seemed to be more like the dregs of a thoroughly conquered nation.

Anyway my point seems to be that the fact there were enough Quincies to sate Mayuri's thirst for knowledge and pain seems to suggest that either the shinigami were very sloppy in their genocide (letting Quincy run around breeding for over a century) or their intention was never truly to eradicate the Quincy, just to show them that destroying spirits is serious business and make sure they never dared to get seriously organized again.




I can honestly say this never even crossed my mind before now. And I'm really not sure how I would feel about it if KT pulled something like that.

What would even be the rationale behind such a deception? SS seems authoritarian enough that if they wanted to be the only ones allowed to kill spirits they could just claim that right, but if the balance didn't exist why would they even care who else was taking out hollows? Fear of another organization becoming as strong as them? Maybe, but that doesn't fit Yama's character at all and I'd think he'd have to be involved in a controversy that big.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness (not really).

As Cronik said, the whole thing about Soul Society seeming to be an antagonist or control freak type thing (read: "Designated Hero" Trope) is what Kubo has been pointing to this whole time, seems like. I won't insult you for not realizing it, but still, I did think for a while that it seemed sort of obvious.

And yeah, I agree, it's actually really likely, at least IMO, that Soul Society decided to act authoritative and not wipe out all of the Quincy in one go to show their power and try to say, "Hey, stop destroying Hollows or will eliminate all of you". Mayuri and his researchers seem to have been the only ones who wanted to dissect and torture the Quincy, he did also point out, after all, that he bribed the Shinigami who were coming to save those Quincy, to make them get there late on purpose. So that the Hollows would already have almost killed them by the time they were "saved". Then Mayuri would have his test subjects. It's all Mayuri's doing.

Looking at how the Spirit King has so far been portrayed, and how Mayuri destroyed 28,000 souls just to try to maintain the balance of souls, has me agreeing with Cronik about the "necessary evil" thing, as far as the balance is concerned.

@<_AmaterasU_>: Agreed.

@m2licee: I hope there's a chapter this week, too. Air Gear at least doesn't seem to have gone on break (granted we do get their chapters in scanlated form a bit late, but still).