Kenpachi vs Grimmjow - Page 17

CakeSpoon · #**161** 11-03-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmand1000

His bankai condenses his massive reiatsu into a controllable form. That's why it's smaller and more effective.

Yeah, but even Ichigo should have learned to control his power better by now.

kmand1000 · #**162** 11-03-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CakeSpoon

Yeah, but even Ichigo should have learned to control his power better by now.

Why? He hasn't had any proper training.

Levy · #**163** 11-03-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by densetsu_eikyou

i don't understand what you are trying to debate. Yes Zaraki drags out fights which he did against Ichigo. Zaraki states he is going to use all the power released after he takes off the eye patch to defeat Ichigo which he diidn't state against Noi since his patch was torn off. If Zaraki is still holding back then why does his sword brake on Ichigo's torso/mask? In the Noi fight once his eye patch is off does his swings increase in power? All Zaraki does is a normal slash or kendo. In all honesty it seems as if Zaraki vs Ichigo he did more than any one hand slash vs Noi.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/113/14-15/
IIRC no area destroying hits against Noi until kendo appeared.

This is where I have a diff. opinion. He says he's gonna use all the energy that the patch usually eats to kill him. Since we know Zaraki has poor control over his power and that his way of not 1 shotting people is by swinging with less force. It's kinda obvious that once he goes patchless he's gonna use all his reiatsu but because we know he limits the strength of his strikes I'm saying we can't say that this single strike what the best he could do from a 1 handed strike.

Whether or not Zaraki is holding back means nothing as to why his sword broke. He went kendo vs Noit and his sword didn't break.

densetsu_eikyou · #**164** 11-03-2009, 08:08 PM

Yeah that is where we disagree. The Zaraki fight with Ichigo is before we see stupid crap like Kendo. Kendo means something with physical beings, these guys are ghosts. Swinging with one hand or two or no hands means very little, the only thing that matters is reitsu which we got from Zaraki when Ichigo tried to cut him. Zaraki takes off his eyepatch and says "i'm going to use all my power to kill you" meant just that. The idea that Zaraki can control the force of his swings but not his reistu makes no sense to me. The force off his swings comes from reitsu. To my knowledge it doesn't come from muscle and has little (maybe some) to do with how fast it is going.

As for his sword breaking it is possible that that has nothing to do with going all out but that would mean someone could just break your sword anytime they felt like it. Their Zan's are still connected to them and the only time their swords break is when they are going all out and still someone stronger hits them. That applied to Ikkaku, Renji, Ichigo, and Byakuaya (all the people who got their Zan's broke possibly) I see no reason it doesn't apply to Zaraki.

Delta · #**165** 11-03-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by densetsu_eikyou

Yeah that is where we disagree. The Zaraki fight with Ichigo is before we see stupid crap like Kendo. Kendo means something with physical beings, these guys are ghosts. Swinging with one hand or two or no hands means very little, the only thing that matters is reitsu which we got from Zaraki when Ichigo tried to cut him. Zaraki takes off his eyepatch and says "i'm going to use all my power to kill you" meant just that. The idea that Zaraki can control the force of his swings but not his reistu makes no sense to me. The force off his swings comes from reitsu. To my knowledge it doesn't come from muscle and has little (maybe some) to do with how fast it is going.

As for his sword breaking it is possible that that has nothing to do with going all out but that would mean someone could just break your sword anytime they felt like it. Their Zan's are still connected to them and the only time their swords break is when they are going all out and still someone stronger hits them. That applied to Ikkaku, Renji, Ichigo, and Byakuaya (all the people who got their Zan's broke possibly) I see no reason it doesn't apply to Zaraki.

I'm not getting into this argument, just wanted to throw an idea out there that may or may not be valid. Could the fact that Zaraki and his Zan were on rather bad terms make it more fragile? Zangetsu did say that those two were constantly fighting each other.

densetsu_eikyou · #**166** 11-03-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

I'm not getting into this argument, just wanted to throw an idea out there that may or may not be valid. Could the fact that Zaraki and his Zan were on rather bad terms make it more fragile? Zangetsu did say that those two were constantly fighting each other.

No idea. I don't see why allowing itself to brake is going to help it fight Zaraki or have Zaraki accept it. But it is possible

Levy · #**167** 11-04-2009, 09:30 AM

densetsu, if you reread the ichigo vs kenpachi fight, kenpachi explicits says that to not 1 shot his opponents he gauge the strength at which he strikes. (i will find the exact page later, i'm at job during lunch time right now :P)

Also, Ichigo was cracking Ulqui's sword while Ulqui wasn't going all out. Zaraki was cracking Noi's weapon without both going all out. So your point is moot imo.

densetsu_eikyou · #**168** 11-04-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

densetsu, if you reread the ichigo vs kenpachi fight, kenpachi explicits says that to not 1 shot his opponents he gauge the strength at which he strikes. (i will find the exact page later, i'm at job during lunch time right now :P)

Why are you acting like the entire fight was that one swing. Zaraki did all of that before he took off his eye patch. If for some reason he wasn't going to go all out right after taking off his eye patch, Ichigo then increased his reitsu which would mean Zaraki is going to need to swing harder.

Quote:

Also, Ichigo was cracking Ulqui's sword while Ulqui wasn't going all out. Zaraki was cracking Noi's weapon without both going all out. So your point is moot imo.

A) the zan braking (not cracking) was only half the explanation of the point that Zaraki was going all out. B) that is possible and i will go re-read those chapters. I only remember Nell barely cracking Noi's weapon when he wasn't going all out (he hadn't released) but it didn't mean anything after that chapter.

Mr.Shades · #**169** 11-04-2009, 10:58 AM

In my opinion, Grimmjow's way too fast for Kenpachi. Grimmjow is all about pouncing around and slicing things at various angles, while Kenpachi goes for the full-powered frontal assault. That said, Kenpachi has more firepower, but Grimmjow wins in overall tactics.

Oxyuranus · #**170** 11-04-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by densetsu_eikyou

Why are you acting like the entire fight was that one swing. Zaraki did all of that before he took off his eye patch. If for some reason he wasn't going to go all out right after taking off his eye patch, Ichigo then increased his reitsu which would mean Zaraki is going to need to swing harder.

Why would he need to increase his spirit preasure again, after the patch came off? The patch off gives him a shit load more reiatsu. I'm sure he thought it was enough aginst Ichigo. He definately would'nt have increased it again without testuing out how strong ichigo was prior to doing so. That would defeat his entire purpose. He dosent want to dominate fights completely, he wants to have fun fighting so I sderiously doubt, unless faced with dramatic circustances that he would ever just go entirely all out in a fight. I am certin he hasnt to date, in the manga and thats not even including the potential for shikai moves and bankai. At any rate, we are argueing a point that can be proven.

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#164 11-03-2009, 08:08 PM
densetsu_eikyou No Custom Title Gotei 13 Shinigami Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In the Valley of the Shadow of Death Age: 25 Posts: 838 Gender:	Yeah that is where we disagree. The Zaraki fight with Ichigo is before we see stupid crap like Kendo. Kendo means something with physical beings, these guys are ghosts. Swinging with one hand or two or no hands means very little, the only thing that matters is reitsu which we got from Zaraki when Ichigo tried to cut him. Zaraki takes off his eyepatch and says "i'm going to use all my power to kill you" meant just that. The idea that Zaraki can control the force of his swings but not his reistu makes no sense to me. The force off his swings comes from reitsu. To my knowledge it doesn't come from muscle and has little (maybe some) to do with how fast it is going. As for his sword breaking it is possible that that has nothing to do with going all out but that would mean someone could just break your sword anytime they felt like it. Their Zan's are still connected to them and the only time their swords break is when they are going all out and still someone stronger hits them. That applied to Ikkaku, Renji, Ichigo, and Byakuaya (all the people who got their Zan's broke possibly) I see no reason it doesn't apply to Zaraki. __________________ Nor the Battle to the Strongest, Nor to the Swiftest, But to the Wisest . _____________________________________________ Who am I? Spoiler: Kuchiki Byakuya You're Kuchiki Byakuya, Captain of the Sixth Division! Some people think that you have just been emotionless your whole life, but that's just because they don't know your inner workings. However, people recognize your strength, and a good number of those people are intimidated by it. There are some, however, that recognize your strength and would like to, instead, defeat you.

#167 11-04-2009, 09:30 AM
Levy No Custom Title Gotei 13 Shinigami Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: quebec Age: 22 Posts: 730 Gender:	densetsu, if you reread the ichigo vs kenpachi fight, kenpachi explicits says that to not 1 shot his opponents he gauge the strength at which he strikes. (i will find the exact page later, i'm at job during lunch time right now :P) Also, Ichigo was cracking Ulqui's sword while Ulqui wasn't going all out. Zaraki was cracking Noi's weapon without both going all out. So your point is moot imo.

#169 11-04-2009, 10:58 AM
Mr.Shades A Well-Known Gentleman and Demi-Hollow Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Somewhere, Somewhen, Somehow Posts: 179 Gender:	In my opinion, Grimmjow's way too fast for Kenpachi. Grimmjow is all about pouncing around and slicing things at various angles, while Kenpachi goes for the full-powered frontal assault. That said, Kenpachi has more firepower, but Grimmjow wins in overall tactics. __________________ My Zanpakuto Spoiler: Spoiler: Sealed Form Spoiler: Shikai: "Let's Give 'Em A Show, Yakushin Hibiki" (Dashing Echo) The katana's blade glows white as I brush my fingers across it and I flick the edge when I reach the tip Shikai Attacks Uwachoushi Gochou: I swing the sword and release a sound wave that's amplified with my spirit energy and release a white wave that cuts whatever's nearby. The wave itself releases a high pitch stinging noise, so you an get hurt even if it just passes you by. Teion Gochou: I stab at the air and release a sonic boom that shatters the ground in front o me. if someone's unlucky enough to get caught in the wave, they'll feel like they got punched in the ear drum Spoiler: Bankai: Kyousei Gakutai Shuen Za Yakushin Hibiki Yakushin Hibiki flies into the sky and comes crashing down as a big silver guitar with a white leopard print pick-guard. In Bankai, instead of a black kimono, I wear a black suit with a black tie. Bankai Attacks - By playing palm-muted notes, I can start an earthquake while creating a sound barrier around me. The sound waves in the barrier are so intense tht it destroys anything that gets too close, or I can compress the power to destroy the ground around me. - By playing rapid high-notes, I can turn the air into lightning by increasing the wind's molecules with intense sound waves. - If I play some notes and put in a lot o spirit energy, I can summon a giant leopard made of white energy to lunge at a target. it's an all or nothing move. Spoiler: Zanpakuto Spirit Yakushin Hibiki is a snow leopard that wears black headphones and a suit jacket