Naruto 557 chapter discussion - Page 4

Fatstogey · #31 09-30-2011, 06:40 PM

Well im saying Tobi is not Madara. Madara was a blunt intstrument. Tobi is a mastermind genius.

Madara did not try to subvert Hashirama as Tobi is trying to subvert the world. Madara challenged him straight up. Cause thats what madara did.

Its not what Tobi does. AT all. No way can Tobi be Madara IMO.

**CakeSpoon** · #32 09-30-2011, 11:57 PM

I wouldn't say it was straight up. Everyone thought he was fighting for leadership, everyone thought he was fighting to win. Winning was never part of the plan, the plan was to get senju dna & disappear.

Plus, it was his first day as an evil supervillain.

willkenshin · #33 10-01-2011, 08:48 AM

The thought that maybe Tobi isn't Madara makes me slightly wonder if the casket that Kabuto showed was Madara and that Tobi is either Obito or someone that stole the Uchiha eyes.

I don't know if Madara/Tobi ever used any Uchiha clan tecniques so some of you guys could be right about the Tobi not Madara speculation

Fatstogey · #34 10-01-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CakeSpoon

I wouldn't say it was straight up. Everyone thought he was fighting for leadership, everyone thought he was fighting to win. Winning was never part of the plan, the plan was to get senju dna & disappear.

Plus, it was his first day as an evil supervillain.

He was though.

Cause if Tobi is not Madara then the whole "i fought him to get his DNA" argument becomes defunct.

Plus why wait 50 years? He wanted Hashirama DNA, he got it, then waits 50(whatever) years? Makes no sense.

Madara was fighting for leader ship. Hashirama did kill him. The whole story was made up from teh beginning.

LOL again if Tobi was madara his fake name would be "Hashi." Not "Tobi"rama.

he cant be. Its written. It will be KT plot kai if kishi pulls this dude out of his ass to be Madara. IMO hes gone to great lengths to show you its not madara. Which could be a troll. but if so IMO it will be writing weaksauce.

He cant be madara. Just cant be. Plus IDK that madara hated konoha? He hated the Senju. He came from a different time. Before the villages.

Guess who was part of the village system? Kagami. He would hate the village. Madara never even knew the village. He was there for 4 months before he fought hashirama. Theres no reason to hate everyone. Plus he was a warrior straight up. merc for hire. He would not give 2 shits about weak fodder. He was like your old school samurai.

Tobi is a fuckin ninja in the shadows mercing people in the middle of the night while they sleep. Madara was like alexander the great out leading a charge on teh battlefield.

Cant be him!!! lol godamnit ill stop reading. lol

Sasukemaru · #35 10-01-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willkenshin

The thought that maybe Tobi isn't Madara makes me slightly wonder if the casket that Kabuto showed was Madara and that Tobi is either Obito or someone that stole the Uchiha eyes.

I don't know if Madara/Tobi ever used any Uchiha clan tecniques so some of you guys could be right about the Tobi not Madara speculation

Never got the Obito theory.

He would've been 13-15 when Madara attacked Konoha.

Bankai - Ichigo · #36 10-02-2011, 03:38 AM

@Stogey: If Madara used Izanagi and Izanami, then of course he didn't die and of course he would've lost the light in one of his eyes as well as losing a lot of his chakra (the former drawback for using Izanagi, and the latter one for using Izanami). That would make him still alive but as a shadow of his former self. It is why he needed Hashirama's DNA so he could awaken a Rinnegan, and also why he now needs the Bijuu chakra and become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki. It's all for becoming, probably, a lot more powerful than before. They do say, "That which doesn't destroy you only makes you stronger".

Also, the way I see it, there is as much proof for Tobi being Madara as there is against. So it wouldn't really be an ass-pull if Tobi is proven to, without even a shred of doubt, be Uchiha Madara.

Fatstogey · #37 10-02-2011, 06:23 PM

again just because tobi has izanagi doesnt mean that madara did.

_NeaR_ · #38 10-03-2011, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatstogey

He was though.

Cause if Tobi is not Madara then the whole "i fought him to get his DNA" argument becomes defunct.

Plus why wait 50 years? He wanted Hashirama DNA, he got it, then waits 50(whatever) years? Makes no sense.

Madara was fighting for leader ship. Hashirama did kill him. The whole story was made up from teh beginning.

LOL again if Tobi was madara his fake name would be "Hashi." Not "Tobi"rama.

he cant be. Its written. It will be KT plot kai if kishi pulls this dude out of his ass to be Madara. IMO hes gone to great lengths to show you its not madara. Which could be a troll. but if so IMO it will be writing weaksauce.

He cant be madara. Just cant be. Plus IDK that madara hated konoha? He hated the Senju. He came from a different time. Before the villages.

Guess who was part of the village system? Kagami. He would hate the village. Madara never even knew the village. He was there for 4 months before he fought hashirama. Theres no reason to hate everyone. Plus he was a warrior straight up. merc for hire. He would not give 2 shits about weak fodder. He was like your old school samurai.

Tobi is a fuckin ninja in the shadows mercing people in the middle of the night while they sleep. Madara was like alexander the great out leading a charge on teh battlefield.

Cant be him!!! lol godamnit ill stop reading. lol

Well suppose this for a moment:

What if, when Madara and Hashirama did fight, Madara did in fact fight but was terribly weakened by the fight that he attained the mans DNA and went to hiding to gain his strength back. The years play out as he plans on what to do with the DNA and its finally made to become Zetsu.

The years come to when the Nine Tails is unleashed, specifically told to be controlled by Madara, and he fight's Minato for that bit a few chapters back. Since the years have gone by, and Madara was so weakened, he changed his take on acting.

Instead of being brazen and GUNGHO about the entire thing, he becomes more planning and concise, not wanting it end in failure. He could easily become Tobi, a lackadaisical ninja who is quite conniving and cynical in a way, to carry out this type of thought process.

I mean, there are many things that point to Tobi being Madara, more so than not IMO. Think about it though, even if you'd like not to admit it.

snqrls · #39 10-03-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _NeaR_

Well suppose this for a moment:

What if, when Madara and Hashirama did fight, Madara did in fact fight but was terribly weakened by the fight that he attained the mans DNA and went to hiding to gain his strength back. The years play out as he plans on what to do with the DNA and its finally made to become Zetsu.

The years come to when the Nine Tails is unleashed, specifically told to be controlled by Madara, and he fight's Minato for that bit a few chapters back. Since the years have gone by, and Madara was so weakened, he changed his take on acting.

Instead of being brazen and GUNGHO about the entire thing, he becomes more planning and concise, not wanting it end in failure. He could easily become Tobi, a lackadaisical ninja who is quite conniving and cynical in a way, to carry out this type of thought process.

I mean, there are many things that point to Tobi being Madara, more so than not IMO. Think about it though, even if you'd like not to admit it.

I think I'll summarize. Several generations of life have a way of curbing a man's desire. The change in 'said' personality between madara and tobi is concievable given the time frame in between.

Fatstogey · #40 10-03-2011, 01:51 PM

Tobi has easily accepted defeat though.

Madara, samurai mentality, CANNOT do that. Madara would rather die that concede to a defeat.
Samurai do not change.

Kagami on the other hand, who was on the same team as Danoz, would demonstrate the same exact sort of nefarious planning.
Also Kagami would know Danzo, he knew him. How does Madara know Danzo?

Cause Kakashi didnt even really know Danzo. But Madara, a guy living outside of the village for how many years? Knew a guy that people in teh village didnt even know........

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#32 09-30-2011, 11:57 PM
CakeSpoon bigger than jesus Special Ops Soldier Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,038 Gender: Blog Entries: 3	I wouldn't say it was straight up. Everyone thought he was fighting for leadership, everyone thought he was fighting to win. Winning was never part of the plan, the plan was to get senju dna & disappear. Plus, it was his first day as an evil supervillain. __________________ Spoiler: The truth: by Velda. By Gaga

#33 10-01-2011, 08:48 AM
willkenshin Break is Needed Special Ops Soldier Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Vacation I Take Age: 22 Posts: 957 Gender:	The thought that maybe Tobi isn't Madara makes me slightly wonder if the casket that Kabuto showed was Madara and that Tobi is either Obito or someone that stole the Uchiha eyes. I don't know if Madara/Tobi ever used any Uchiha clan tecniques so some of you guys could be right about the Tobi not Madara speculation __________________ Fanclub's Spoiler: Fan Clubs credit 2 Maz 4 sig Spoiler:

#36 10-02-2011, 03:38 AM
Bankai - Ichigo Tensa Zangetsu Royal Task Force Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Al-Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 23 Posts: 21,085 Gender:	@Stogey: If Madara used Izanagi and Izanami, then of course he didn't die and of course he would've lost the light in one of his eyes as well as losing a lot of his chakra (the former drawback for using Izanagi, and the latter one for using Izanami). That would make him still alive but as a shadow of his former self. It is why he needed Hashirama's DNA so he could awaken a Rinnegan, and also why he now needs the Bijuu chakra and become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki. It's all for becoming, probably, a lot more powerful than before. They do say, "That which doesn't destroy you only makes you stronger". Also, the way I see it, there is as much proof for Tobi being Madara as there is against. So it wouldn't really be an ass-pull if Tobi is proven to, without even a shred of doubt, be Uchiha Madara. __________________ *Click this Spoiler Tag to see (the rest of) my Stuff!* Spoiler: Bankai - Ichigo's Photobucket--click to see it! In this spoiler tag are my three Sig banners that I had made by other people, and their names are in the spoiler tag [I've been experimenting with Photoshop, so my work is there as well now] (first Spoiler Tag is for Bleach, and the second one is for other series): Bleach: Spoiler: Signatures by me, Seikaeku, Mobius, JadorOnizuka, Cmc 42, Goroth, MMZ, KingtheKing, Emperor Tomato Ketchup, and notorious UZIMAKI, respectively (the very first four are my own work, as well as the purple Yoruichi Sig and the Yoruichi Sig with her in partial cat form). Other: Spoiler: Air Gear: Tenjou Tenge: Eureka-Seven: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5d's: Signatures by me, Emperor Tomato Ketchup and SonPan (the YGO 5d's one is from SonPan and the Air Gear ones are my own work; the Natsume Maya Sig (Tenjou Tenge) is also my own work). Wanna Learn Something? Here are some quotes in the spoiler tag that you guys may want to look at; they're awesome quotes with great descriptions, you might actually learn something! Spoiler: "Life is a game; if you don't have the skills, you won't succeed." --Me. As Zei's Sig used to say, "The Bankai doesn't make the person, the person makes the Bankai". "You can't have everything done your way; otherwise, you'll just become arrogant." --Me. This ties in with the thing about nobles: nobles basically get everything they want, and when they don't get something they wanted, they think things like "How could this have happened?!" or "I'm supposed to be the center of everything; the world revolves around me!" But hey, we know that the world revolves around the sun, so that kind of thinking is just wrong; and that, my friends, is what being arrogant is like. Nobles that are arrogant also tend to think that commoners always mean them harm; either that or they just want to "wound their pride". But of course, there are some nobles that are good hearted and actually care about the part of society that aren't nobles--since this is about the Bleach anime/manga series, I'll use two examples of this type of noble person from the Bleach series: Yoruichi (of course, I mean c'mon! She is a princess, but does she care about rank?! No, she doesn't!) Example 2: Ukitake. OK, now this one I learned from life: "Life isn't fair; don't fret or worry too much if you don't get a certain thing you wanted, or if something isn't done how you hoped or wanted it to". "When asking a question, remember what the what the question was to be able to answer it." Means that when you are asking a question, you should always remember what the question was to answer it. "Looks can be deceiving--don't always go by what you think is the truth based on how things appear (to the eyes)." "No one is perfect; everyone makes mistakes." - Of course it's a cliche (spelling?) saying, but it's still a damn good one. "Don't believe half of what you hear and don't always believe everything you see." -Another cliche saying, but this one is also a damn good one. As Notorious Uzimaki quoted Gandhi in the 3rd Division, "Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony". [Uzimaki's explanation of the quote: "too often not the case, rationalizing mis-actions, cognitive dissonance. i always try to remind myself of this quote in difficult situations." Division I am in: Spoiler: Member of: Spoiler: [Avatar: The Last Airbender FC (FC is inactive, and there's no working banner atm, either.] Owner Of: Spoiler: Co-Owner Of Spoiler: My Zanpakutō: Spoiler: Name: Kokuraimaru [黒雷丸 (Dark Lightning)] Type: Lightning/Electricity Realm and Spirit: Spoiler: The Realm of Kokuraimaru is a huge, wide, endless plain covered with countless craters, gashes, and burn-marks, while also being shrouded in darkness, as it is always nighttime there. There is a faint, eerie glow however, due to there being a group of extremely dense storm clouds present in the sky, from which high voltage lightning comes out to scorch the ground. There are also strong and violent gales that constantly blow in this inner world. The storm clouds almost always have in them thunderstorms that have black lightning with a dark-blue outline. That black lightning within the inner world is itself Kokuraimaru. He is everywhere within this realm, as an almost omnipresent being. As he is made purely of lightning, he is actually able to take virtually any form he wants (note: this ability does not translate into Shikai or Bankai; it is Kokuraimaru's ability alone). Whenever I go into my inner world outside of Bankai, Kokuraimaru would take his lightning form out of the other places and present most of it in front of me temporarily in the form of free-flowing lightning (for the amount of time that I am in the inner world). He was not always a Zanpakutō Spirit. Originally, he was Raijin, the Japanese Shinto god of storms, thunder and lightning. He "died" and later reincarnated as my Zanpakutō with some help from Ouetsu (creator of Zanpakutō) in the process of becoming my Zanpakutō, according to what he's told me. He has a companion wolf made of the same dark blue energy as he is, with his body wrapped in lightning. His name is Kokuraiko ([黒雷子] Dark Lightning Child) and he is an incarnation of Raijū, who is said to be a companion of Raijin in Japanese mythology and Shintoism. Whenever black thunderstorms are occurring, he gets agitated and creates trouble within this Realm. Kokuraimaru has to flex his reiatsu to calm him down. Sometimes, when that is not enough, I have to weigh in with my own reiatsu. In character, Kokuraimaru is kind and strong-willed, but is sometimes easily angered. When we get into arguments, there are times when he tends to get a little cranky when he is unable to get the last word and/or "win" the argument. He also has a very bad habit of coming off as arrogant without meaning to, oftentimes. Kokuraiko is the same in personality as Kokuraimaru. When we spar, he takes the form of a man wielding his Shikai sword. When I visit the inner world in Bankai, there is a noticeable change in the inner world to represent that: the complete lack of black thunderstorms due to the fact that, in Bankai, he is permanently in his "human" form, as a master swordsman Spirit that is 6ft in height, has almost no weight due to being lightning, and blue eyes and blue-black hair that reaches down to his waist, hanging loose (untied). In his "human" form, he is dressed in a samurai get-up that is enough of a darker blue that it looks almost black, except he is barefoot. He wields the same sword I have in Bankai. The belt on the outfit is black, with the kanji for "black" on the left strap of the belt tie and the kanji for "lightning" on the right one. Kokuraimaru is ancient himself, but his "human" form looks to still be in his 20s, and is also seemingly lean and well-built. On his back, with their top sides facing forward, are three black drums with three tomoe on each of them. There are no drumsticks to go with the drums, but they are not needed as Kokuraimaru is able to beat on them with just the force of his reiatsu alone (is translated into Bankai as well; it's not that I do this with my own reiatsu, it's still Kokuraimaru (no Kenshi) himself who does). When Kokuraimaru is in this form, Kokuraiko likes to sit either on his head or on his right shoulder. Sealed Form: A daicho (Japanese long sword). The hilt of the sword is dark blue, 5 inches long with a black ray-skin under the hilt-wrapping. The cross-guard is circular, with a picture of multiple lightning bolts engraved into it. The blade of the sword is 8 inches long, coming out of a black collar. In the middle of the blade are inscribed two symbols; one being that of Raijū's face, and the other being that of three tomoe. The sheath is dark blue, with the kanji for "lightning" printed on the up-facing part in black color. For a reason that was unknown until Shikai, the sword doesn't seem to have much of a weight at all, and seems to require multiple slashes made at high-speed, as it doesn't have enough cutting power to deal a decisive blow in one slash. Shikai: Spoiler: Release Command Hikare to Shūgeki! Kokuraimaru! [光れと襲撃! 黒雷丸! (Flash and Strike! Dark Lightning!)] Release Animation: I hold the sword in a guard stance and call out its Release Command and name. There is a loud thunder clap that can be heard, along with a flash of lightning coming from the sword, and in the next instant, the onlooker can see the following changes: Appearance of Shikai: Spoiler: Same daicho as the Sealed state, except with a 1 and a half inch longer dark blue blade coming out of a black collar, with the hilt also being one inch longer. The blade is made of electrically charged reishi that is in the form of a highly conductive metal, tampered to be extremely light (lighter than it was in Sealed State). As the blade in Sealed State was being covered by an insulated material, the true nature of the blade was hidden and its weight was slightly increased. The Shikai sword still requires the wielder to execute multiple slashes done at high-speeds, as even though it is sharp enough to cut, it is still weaker in power than other swords but can allow for multiple slashes done at high-speeds, the damage of which accumulates to deal high amounts of cutting damage from the blade. Abilities of Shikai: Spoiler: This Zanpakutō has the power to control lightning, electricity and thunder (can create thunder as well). Whenever thunder is created, the tomoe and Raijū face symbols on the blade start to glow with a light that is a slightly lighter blue than the blade itself. When already existing thunder is controlled, only the face of the Raijū glows. The Raijū's face also glows whenever Kokuraiko is helping with the abilities to make them powerful or effective (depends on the nature of the ability). As long as there are still protons and electrons in the surroundings within a radius of 2-3 inches from both me and the sword, the electricity on the blade will (almost) never run out. Due to the make-up of the blade, when it cuts the opponent, it also delivers a ticklish-type shock. Ability 1: Kokuraigeki [黒雷打] (Black Lightning Strike): When I want to use this ability, I have the electricity on the blade produce a strong static charge that is discharged as lightning from the tip of the blade. The power and amount of electricity on the blade, when using this technique, can be controlled at will, so that the lightning produced can be controlled. Immediately after having used this attack, some of the strong electric charge will be left on the blade, and before it runs out (in 3-4 seconds' time), I'm able to use that to deal a bit more of a zapping effect than normal through my melee attack(s). Ability 2 (Passive): Raipo [雷歩] (Lightning Step): This is an ability that I have due to the light weight of the sword, as well as the focus in high-speed melee attacks. I can't use Shunpo in conjunction with this. This is a variation of Shunpo that increases my running speed by that of lightning. In Shikai, I get a speed increase of half the speed of lightning in reality, even though it's called "speed of lightning". Ability 3 (Active): Raiken [雷剣] (Lightning Sword): Whenever there is a thunderstorm occurring near me, and I'm close enough, I can take control over some of the thunder and lightning within it. I have my sword conduct the electricity from the lightning to strike at my opponent(s) with it from the sword, or have it strike them from where it already was to begin with. I can only do this to affect thunder and lightning within a 2 and half mile radius distance of me and my sword. Bankai: Spoiler: Name of Bankai: Kokuraimaru no Kenshi [黒雷丸の剣士 (Dark Lightning the Master Swordsman)] Release Animation for Bankai: I hold my sword with one hand, pointed towards my opponent(s), and call out the words, "Ban Kai!" An almost deafening thunder clap is heard, and both my sword and I release a powerful torrent of reiatsu that looks like black lightning with a dark blue outline. When the lightning fades and my form is once again clearly visible, the appearance of my Bankai is seen. . . . Appearance of Bankai: Spoiler: In Bankai, the Zanpakutō splits into four parts; two gloves that reach up to right below the elbows and two unarmored boots that reach up to right below the knees. The gloves and shoes are both dark blue, and are made of the same electrically charged reishi as the Shikai blade; they are further tampered with than the sword's blade so that they are flexible enough for me to have full freedom and ease of movement in the parts of my limbs that the pieces of tampered metal are on. The Bankai also gives me a shirt and belt that are similar to the ones the Spirit wears in Bankai form. The same sword from the Shikai is also present, though the power and amount of control I have is greater/augmented (explained in detail a bit later). On the arm parts of the gloves are the same tomoe symbols as the blade; the inscription of the Raijū is now complete, showing a mini picture of a whole Raijū. On my back appear the same three drums from the Spirit description, facing forward so that the three tomoe that are on the top of each of the drums show. In Bankai, the dark blue outline looks almost pure black. This carries on to the shoes and gloves, making them also appear to be almost pure black, and the blade is also the same color due to being practically made of the same black lightning. Abilities of Bankai: Spoiler: The same abilities from the Shikai are carried over and powered up 5x. In Bankai, the electricity on my Zanpakutō can regenerate as long as there are still protons and electrons present in the surroundings within a radius of 5 inches around both me and my sword. The gloves and boots, as well as the sword in Bankai, work pretty much the same as the Shikai sword on how to use the lightning attacks. The power and amount of electricity on the surface of the gloves and boots/shoes, as well as on the sword can now always be controlled at will at all times, and the potential voltage and the maximum power and amount of current is 5x greater when compared to Shikai. The range of the "Raiken" technique's influence is increased in Bankai; it is now possible to control all of the thunder and lightning within any given naturally occurring thunderstorm. The attacks I can use with this Bankai are possible with either my blade, my hand(s), and/or my foot/feet. I can use either of those at any given time for any of my electrical or lightning type attacks. The "Raipo" ability is now able to literally increase my running speed that I augment with my reiatsu by that of lightning. It is still impossible to use Shunpo with Raipo. The tomoe and Raijū inscriptions act up the same way, as well as on the same occasions, as in Shikai. Kokuraiko's help in making the abilities more efficient/powerful is also a greater. This Bankai has two additional attacks; Attack 1: Kokuraigeki Jitai no Ni: Kuroi Arashi [黒雷打代表の二: 黒嵐] (Black Lightning Strike Type 2: Black Storm): Basically, I turn existing clouds into cumulonimbus clouds through static energy build-up, then use my own spiritual energy to take control of the thunder and lightning. Thunderstorms created through this technique spread over a 6.5 mile radius around both me and the opponent in all directions (gets bigger as needed when fighting multiple opponents). Attack 2: Kokuseiryokuhō [黒勢砲] (Dark Energy Cannon): This attack takes all of the electrons from either the sword or one of the gloves, compresses and condenses them, and then fires them at the opponent. Takes a few minutes to maybe a half an hour to regenerate all of the lost electricity. *Click Here: My Dragon Cave Scroll *Click Me>>> 3rd Division, Represent!**